I understand why so many Muslims claim that Hezbollah won, after all, any other time Arabs messed with Israel they got their asses handed to them and land was taken as punishment for their dumb behavior.
So this time around was different, Israel not claiming victory somehow gets interpreted as a victory for Hezbollah. This is what a victory in the Arab world is today, this is how low things have gotten, not being totally wiped out is a victory. Congrat’s, your happiness and claims of victory shows your awe and respect for Israel.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
A few corrections.
This is not a reaction after the fact, experts on western media right at its outset alongwith arab media were opining that to win the war Hezbollah merely has to deny Israel victory.
-It isnt the case that Israel is "not claiming victory". Public perception in Israel regards this as a defeat, and as do commentators, as a recent poll shows.
It is a significant achievement for a vastly outmanned (30000 to estimated 3000) and outgunned group to deny an army deemed to have superpower status (before this) backed by naval and air power and uninterrupted supply and communication lines its goals.
It is an understatement to say Hezbollah merely managed to be not wiped out. Israel was not succesful in even degrading their capability to fight inspite of cutting out their supply lines. Nor able to decrease the number of rockets fired back at it. Nor even able to take out the propaganda channel Al-Manar inspite of constant bombardments.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
The reaction by some here would make people who didn't know any better that Hezbollah had taken over Israel.
Israel has stated they will go after Hezbollah whenever and wherever they choose to do so, they will seek permission from no one.
Hezbollah won't dare attack Israel and they will no longer be on the boarder.
The pressure on Hezbollah will be great from inside Lebanon, let this jubilation being whipped up by Hezbollah subside and once rebuilding starts do you think that the people will risk supporting Hezbollah and their dangerous agenda? The Lebanese want cafes, universities, and peace these things are not on top of Hezbollah’s agenda.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
Depends. Vietcong for example wasnt created to defend the population, it was created to liberate the country.
All Israel has to show for this war is visible casualties to Lebanese civilians. The “most moral army in the world” tagline just doesnt fly anymore.
Hezbollah did not plan a war to gain territory, their goals were limited to kidnapping israeli soldiers to negotiate prisoner swaps like before, and they timed this with the kidnappings in Gaza.
They still have the prisoners. And you can be sure that Israel will be forced to the negotiating table.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
The truth is, Hezbollah picked a fight that they couldn't win and Lebanese civilians paid the price. end of story
Hezbollah is not the army of Lebanon, they are a militia group. End of story is that Israeli army couldn't rescue their two member, now they can't make the movie a la Jessica Lynch.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
To some extent yes it is, but infact it is embarrassment for the actual armies of Arab world that they were kicked in behind while this militia group put up much better fight.
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Congrat's, your happiness and claims of victory shows your awe and respect for Israel.
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Do you want to see more "shows" of such "awe and "respect"? :CareBear:
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
Has Lebanese government been able to provide all that to their people? There is a reason Hezbollah was able to maintain their grip on the land, its not just guns that keeps you in power.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
Hezbollah did not plan a war, their goals were limited to kidnapping israeli soldiers to negotiate prisoner swaps like before, and they timed this with the kidnappings in Gaza.
That is the danger of having Warlords run your foreign policy. Hezbollah miscalculated, and they will miscalculate again. They will think that they are invincible, and they will be bolder and more impressed with themselves.
Israel will react to this, and you will see a more radicalized Israel. They are smart, and they will adapt. They believe that a major portion of their deterence has been damaged, and that challenges to their sovereignty are more likely. Never corner a wild animal, they become more dangerous.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
we enter the realm of speculation on this and on other matters. utd supposes hezbollah will be unpopular, but whether or not hezbollah will become unpopular remains to be seen. they have a significant social network and will be very visible in the rebuilding process. also they’ll have to blunder to lose the enourmous cache of nationalistic goodwill they have at present.
Lets also not underestimate the ability to adapt of Hezbollah. They’ve demonstrated extraordinary flexibility and skill in combating a brutal and calculating enemy. It is easy in hindsight to blame Israeli strategy, but lets be fair, they arent idiots and they werent pulling punches.
With an emboldened syria and iran and demonstrated efficacy of their weaponry, I dont see the future wars simple for either side.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
Israel has a military of 500,000. They invaded with 5,000 until the last few days. They tried to avoid casualties because they thought that the Israeli public would not tollerate casualties. Next time they will invade with 100,000, and they will be mentally prepared for as many casualties as needed.
And frankly, an AC-130 or two would have made a huge difference in many of the fights. You can bet that the Israelis will be intricately mapping every bunker they can find, going over every square inch by satellite, infrared, ground penetrating radar. That tactic will only work once. Don't sell short the Israelis, they are wounded and more dangerous today than they were two months ago.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
The plan is to get the Lebanese to be the ones on the forefront of rebuilding and providing for the people rather than Hezbollah. As you said Hezbollah adapts well and they are already on the ground making promises to rebuild.
But if a man who builds my house does does something to that gets it knocked down and then rebuilds it only to do something else to get it kocked down, I would look for help elsewhere.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
And frankly, an AC-130 or two would have made a huge difference in many of the fights. You can bet that the Israelis will be intricately mapping every bunker they can find, going over every square inch by satellite, infrared, ground penetrating radar. That tactic will only work once. Don't sell short the Israelis, they are wounded and more dangerous today than they were two months ago.
Would those AC-130 flying out of Baghdad cause amreeka's pimp (Israel) doesn't have that accessory in its vanity box for whores...
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
They went in with as many as they could afford. The moment the number of deployed forces touched 30,000 reservists were complaining about how they were inadequately trained.
Apparently this (aerial images/UAV drones etc) was already done this time but the bunkers are deep enough as to be revealed only when ground forces actually go in. Also the small team size strategy and flat reporting heirarchy lends itself to a distributed, autonomous style of warfare that is very hard to pinpoint.
Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?
I think the kidnappings were just an excuse for Israel to invade and move Hezbollah back from the southern border, and pound on them for awhile as a show of strength and willingness to fight.