Anti-Pakistan Army

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Not taking offence at all because your world is a small box where you live, this is not your fault, I can help you know something that
if Paki-Army works at Siachin then there are loads of Armies in the world e.g the Indian-Army which does the same thing, so Indians alos exist at Siachin, no?
These so called Heroes of your Army are not so special to do their jobs, they are paid for what they do, in fact they are the lords of this nation, looting our money in the name of Defence. Should I name what fascilities and what luxuries these so called Heroes of your Army are enjoying?

If Army puts its life in danger as you think, then the Police Department does the same thing, Labourers who make buildings and dig earth do much more hard work than your jawans, though these labourers who put their lives in danger for the sake of bread don't get enough money to fill their families stomachs.
Then I wasn't talking about a poor soldier of your Army rather the Drunkard Adulterer Generals with fatty bellies.

It's us Pakistani citizens who pay them money from the taxes we pay on each and everything but these corrupt Army Men have been exploiting us from the beginning on dead issues like Kashmir, it is Kashmir on whose name they are looting the national wealth.

And don't give me the example of what they did during earthquakes, the whole world knows how they didn't reach to help people days after the quake while their Generals looted foreign aids which were for the victims of quake.

They don't do any favours on us, they do their jobs, if they don't want to do their jobs, then they should get the hell out of Army so that we can appoint better and honest people there.

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

u r not getting any marks for being original..:halo:

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

u r so cute..:

Is it Pakistan's Army or Army's Pakistan?

Thanx for playing. :)

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

bhaijan im not defending or attacking their morals, just pointing out what kekashan said was wrong.

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

interesting thread indeed!!
but the point to ponder is WHY the anti army sentiments are growing so much in the country..

the Nation respects the army for their professionalism and for the bravery.. BUT
which army in the world gives land to the retired generals..
and job placement at the top positions in civil.

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Excellent post BA.

Only in Pakistan.

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Just a point;
and it is in Iraq’s name that the US Army is looting the American nation…

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There is absolutely no comparison

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Americans have Iraq invaded, Pakis haven't Kashmir, so your friend is right here; no comparison.

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Here’s the original post I was going to write, some power problem and early click lost the text.

Just a point;
and it is in Iraq’s name that the US Army is looting the American nation…

Maybe the army should be disbanded when there’s no conflict so further national assets thus saved can be gorged by the plundering politician brigades during peacetimes, while leaving the borders for any aggressor to have its way…?

I agree with Spock. And officers not upto atleast category B of medical & physical fitness are not even promoted, so there is mandatory fitness req for all. And, the pot bellied generals are very few, in fact the perception is there because they are only a few that ppl see the most on TV due to their staff roles at GHQ etc.
The operational commanders are way fit! the commander SSG who jumps from 10000ft on 23 March is also a General. Gen Musharraf when he was just the COAS and only on military duty was also much more fit than now. Even now I’m sure he can compete well with a 20smthng on a run or a game of tennis or squash. The PAf Chief also a 4 star ‘General’ flies an F16 on 23 March. The Corps commanders, formation commanders, Bde commanders are all fit in their minds, bodies and military skills like running extensively, shooting and so on.

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

just a post
Dont say a bad word abt them.. Holy cow will mind..

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What is the main job of armed forces? Is army doing it's main duty when required? How many years armed forces not doing there job what they are designed for?

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Another good critism.

Should the military be above criticism?*** —Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi***

The critics make a distinction between the military as a profession and an institution and the political role of the senior commanders and the non-professional activities of the military. The expanded non-professional role is expected to evoke controversies because it has implications for the civilians as well as for the nature and direction of the society and the political system

The official circles are perturbed by the growing criticism of role of the military, especially the top brass of the army, in politics and other non-professional fields. In their speeches, opposition members in the two houses of the parliament have targeted several aspects of the military’s expanded role. These include President General Pervez Musharraf’s decision to concurrently hold the presidency and the command of the army, appointment of serving and retired officers to lucrative civilian assignments, and the industrial, commercial and business activities of the three services of the armed forces. They have submitted questions, adjournment motions, and resolutions on these issues. Most of the questions and motions are disallowed by the chair on the ground that they deal with sensitive and security matters. Some questions get unsatisfactory responses. Newspapers and magazines, too, carry editorials and articles on the expanded role of the military.

The latest controversy began when some opposition members of the National Assembly took exception to President General Pervez Musharraf’s decision to preside over the meeting of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League (PML) — although he does not hold any party office — while wearing the uniform of the army chief. The Speaker expunged the opposition remarks claiming that these “could damage the discipline of [the] armed forces” and “were tantamount to politicising a sensitive institution of the country”. He warned the National Assembly members that they could be disqualified “for passing derogatory remarks in parliament against the army, judiciary and the country’s sovereignty.”

On May 19, the president’s spokesperson reprimanded the minister of state for religious affairs, Dr Aamir Liaquat Hussain, for making negative comments about the internal dynamics of the army and the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) in an interview published in Daily Times on May 7.

Two weeks before these developments, Senator Farhatullah Baber and others of the PPP Parliamentarians submitted a resolution to the Senate secretariat for debating the business, commercial and real estate interests of the armed forces, proposing that these activities should be curtailed for the sake of military professionalism. The resolution is not expected to be on the Senate agenda.

In order to dissuade the political circles from criticising the expanded role of the military, the official circles are invoking a well-established tradition that the military should not be subjected to public criticism and humiliation. This tradition goes back to the British rule in India. The British also established legal norms to protect the military’s integrity, discipline and professionalism. Such laws exist in both Pakistan and India.

It may, however, be pointed out that the tradition of respecting the military as an institution developed in a specific military culture of British India that emphasised the primacy of the civil and the notion of limited functions of the military. The British Indian military performed four major functions: external defence, specified assignments of internal security, expeditions in service of the empire inside and outside of British India, and assistance to the civilian authorities at their request for the maintenance of law and order and for coping with natural calamities. These roles had political implications but the military commanders stayed away from day to day political affairs. They maintained a distance from civilian affairs and society.

The military culture that underpinned the tradition of not publicly criticising the military does not exist in Pakistan. The military has by now emerged as the most formidable political player. The president is not only the chief of army staff but he also functions as an effective chief executive at the cost of the prime minister, his cabinet and the parliament. Furthermore, the military has developed vast stakes in the non-professional civilian sectors. This has placed the civilians at a disadvantage in these sectors, causing resentment against and controversies about the expanded role of the military.

Most of the criticism focuses on the involvement of the retired and serving officers in governance and political management, their induction in lucrative civilian government and semi-official assignments, and the military’s growing activities in commercial, industrial, real estate development and related sectors. There is hardly any criticism of military profession or the military as an institution. As a matter of fact, military profession continues to enjoy respect in Pakistan. On all national days, glowing tributes are paid to the service personnel who sacrificed their lives in defence of the country. The people of all political and social orientations take part in such activities.

The critics make a distinction between the military as a profession and an institution and the political role of the senior commanders and the non-professional activities of the military. The expanded non-professional role of the military is expected to evoke controversies because it has implications for the civilians as well as for the nature and direction of the society and the political system.

The parliament in a democratic political dispensation has the right to discuss all institutions of the state, including the military. In the days of British rule, the Indian Legislative Assembly had no control over defence and defence expenditure. This did not stop the members from discussing the military affairs. The assemblies, set up under the Government of India Act, 1919, repeatedly asked for the assembly’s control over defence affairs and defence expenditure. They also demanded a speedy induction of Indians to the commissioned ranks of the army and other services. Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah raised these issues on several occasions inside and outside the legislature.

The National Assembly Speaker may disqualify some members or expunge their remarks about the military’s expanded role and the government can invoke some laws to mute the criticism. But will this solve the problem? Any such action will cause more controversy and give a fillip to criticism of the military’s political role and its activities in the non-professional fields.

Since September 2001, a body of literature is available outside Pakistan that offers a critical appraisal of the role of the Pakistan army and the intelligence establishment, especially the ISI, in promoting Islamic militancy, their linkages with the Taliban, other Islamic hard-line groups and the insurgency in Indian-administered Kashmir. The research has been carried out by American as well as Pakistani writers. One book published last year by a Pakistani author with some experience of the establishment has a lot of information on these issues. A new book by another Pakistani with a reasonably vast knowledge of how the Pakistani state functioned in the 1990s would be out in a couple of months. Similarly, data is now available in Pakistan and abroad on the military’s commercial and industrial activities. The same can be said about the military’s involvement in real estate development and housing schemes, including the sale and purchase of ‘files’ and the alleged money making by some officers.

Even if the government restricts the circulation of this material in Pakistan, the debate on these issues would not stop — in Pakistan or abroad. It is therefore, important for the military to understand the root causes of the growing criticism of its expanded role. The military cannot take refuge behind a tradition and laws whose supportive military culture and civil-military relations no longer exist in Pakistan.

If they see a need for moderation in the discourse of the political leaders on the military-related issues, the military authorities must undertake a dispassionate study of what has happened to their relations with the civil society and how the latter perceives this relationship. The military authorities may have to contain their political and other non-professional activities.

Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi is a political and defence analyst

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-5-2005_pg3_2

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

If you dont listen to your Dad, and analyze things by yourself, you will understand...(Probably):)

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

End Of Discussion

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Very hypocritical statement from you

Stop trying to make us believe you are a serving officer…with time to come on this forum everyday :cb:

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

I never said I was! but unlike you all I love Pakistan.

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Liar, you previously said your colleagues in Siachen, of course only Army is there

You fool no one, and bore all.

Goodbye little boy :rotfl:

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Atleast you are troubled.:)

Re: Anti-Pakistan Army

Ohooooo

I am trembling with fear.