We can only talk about ourselves and our faith. Our protection (the protection of our honor, wealth etc) is connected to the protection of our faith. If we loose, we should not be expecting any good from the enemy (As has happened throughout the history).
Besides, you must be clear now that Muslim law does not use the captive women as pleasure objects, does not place then in brothels, clubs and does not allow rape and other heinous crimes to avange against the enemy. We do not sell them for a small amount of money for others to play with them. We consider then in a very different way.
The historical understanding is that there was symmetry here.
Keep in mind:
i) Sex was considered okay by arrangement, and not neccessarily consent. Consenting adults could have sex outside of wedlock, yet be considered criminals. Yet I think it’s fair to say that 99.999% of marriages back in those days were not of mutual conensus, at least to a large degree, but due to family or tribal arrangements. Sex for the first time was often with a stranger, and it’s something both parties (more often than not the female in particular) submitted themselves to.
ii) Muslim women were in fact captives, and the understanding is that their captors had sex with them. This was considered understandable, and I dare say for the most part expected. So the captor-captive arrangement was a green light for sex.
^ If mutual respect had been enough or effective enough, there wouldn't have had so many crimes prevalent in society. Secondly, it is not a matter of mutual respect. Two mutually respecting humans, not legally married, and lets exclude religion, what do you think out of a population of lets say 1000 men, how many would be knowing what is "mutual" respect? Usually it is seen that bad people are more prevalent than good ones, so a deterrence is needed.
It is an escape route, a loophole you are asking about. What we are talking about is what Allah devised us. We cannot go by it................
Ah well. When muslim females are taken captive by non-muslim soldiers, as is happening in the world today, then I suppose its fair game if those soldiers take up the bed with these muslim females.
shrugs Even if she happens to be someone else's wife.
Is it very difficult to accept that this verse is faulty? It discriminates the slaves.
Can a Muslim lady also have sex with her slave?
It is interesting that many here who cry day and night that Quran is send by Allah for all ages and localities, suddenly want to create a demarcation between the Arab society and the rest on the question of rape.
In other words…what is a known as ‘rape’ in a civilized society, has a religious sanction among Muslims.
What’s hilarious is how these Munkir e Hadith are tripping over themselves in a bid to explain how thousands of hadith and traditions of our holy prophet (PBUH) were all a big mistake or even better did not occur
Where would the Muslim Ummah be without such great thinkers, they have shown us the true path, what a pity nobody gives a crap about their apologetic views. Maybe they should read about mental slavery…minds held captive by the Western way of thinking.
If anyone had any serious questions about Quranic interpretations, then they wouldn’t be looking for answers on this board. Then again, seeking knowledge is never the intent is it?
If uptill now you have not been able to understand that he problem is not “HAVING SEX” it is your problem. But let me help you out with that a bit…
If all you think is “having sex” you can go to the cheep prositutes which are present in every community in India and have sex many many times with them. The rate for one night is 15 rupees minimum and then goes up according to certain factors. I think you can afford it, if what you only need is “having sex”. There is no shortage, there is abundance, every “Mohallah” has prostitutes everyone… There is no shame, your gods had affairs, did rape and incest and all sorts of crimes, why not you… go ahead…
In western societies, you can can live with a women in “common union” produce kids with no legal father, yet they will be brought up by the tax dollars people pay from their earnings. Government will support you for living with as many women as you want WITHOUT marriage. Not a problem, if all you want is “Having sex”… this is a little better way, under the umbrella of Government a little more protected than prostitutes.
If not that, then you can pick up a newspaper and in the last pages, you’d find many adds etc that can satisfy your demand of “Having sex” in multiple ways…
If not that, then in the middle of the night, just go out and stand in Harlem, north of 100 street in Manhattan New York, somebody will either pick you up you you’ll find someone willing to go with you.
These are a few suggestions of “Having sex” ONLY. If you need dignity and respect or are willing to take a little responsibility, then we can talk about it in Islamic perspective…
I hope this answer satisfies your hunger for “Having sex”…
Also, an Iranian court has jailed some 40 Pakistanis who duped girls, some only 12 years old, into going to Pakistan where they were forced to work as prostitutes, the Khorasan newspaper reported on Sunday.
The Pakistanis presented themselves to poor Iranian families and asked to marry their daughters, the paper said, but then brought the girls to brothels in their home country.
^ Both of you stick to the topic
Answer what has been asked from you. Stop derailing the topics
**Mods where are you sleeping? ** They need warnings for this behavior… Is there any proof needed for these Indians intending to just detroy every thread in this manner?
Quite the contrary. There are various hadith on the topic, but I’ve yet to see a hadith that addresses the issue of what to do when the captive does NOT want to go to bed with her master.
Think of the topic realistically, since you’re living in today’s world, not yesterday’s. Pakistan goes to war with some European country and gets ahold of lots of POW’s. So the Pakistani soldiers have the Islamic right to bed the female POW’s?
What happens when the POW is married? What happens when she doesn’t want to have sex? What happens when the soldier’s wife is getting hurt by this behavior or if its being hidden from the wife?
That’s the ground reality of the implications of what people are trying to say. Furthermore, the translation of “right hand possesses” is not even universally agreed upon by scholars. So because this one scholar says it means servant, then it can be your maid?
I don’t know, but there is something slightly sick about bedding a woman and then not giving her the same rights that you would give a free-believing woman. If Islam is all about fundamental equality, then where is the equality in the equation?
If you go on the Quran alone on this subject, it just doesn’t give much info on the matter. If anything it encourages you to free your slaves. So the idea of bedding your slaves…fits into the picture how, if God wants you to free them?
It is a fair game **only **if someone believes non-muslims to be follower of the right religion. Oh I forgot!!! God is so merciful that He will put all the kaafirs and those who disobeyed Him in the Jannah. And all of the people in Jannah will use fire of hell to cook their meals.
submission.org is a kafir website, so dont qoute it as any authority in islam. anyone who claims to be a prophet is a kafir, and who ever does not believe him to be a kafir is kafir himself.
You know, armughal, to some of my questions, there are definitely answers. You could answer them, and thereby show that Islamically, the slave-master relationship is one of the most mild and safe slave-master relationships ever designated.
Sorry I didn’t know that. Just quickly came across this website. Isn’t it www.al-islam.com which is a Qadyani website? I thought that is the only Qadyani website…
IIRC, a POW would have become a slave according to tradition back then, so it would not apply today as such rules no longer exist. Pakistan follows the Geneva Convention.
The Geneva Convention's rulings on the treatment of POW's is very similar to that in Islam. The difference is the Islamic rulings on taking slaves no longer applies, but on treatment of individuals and their rights remains.
