Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

[Airhead]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

I disagree with the whole "he must be lying about his job title if his grammatical skills are poor" argument, the group finance manager of the company that I work for here is responsible for 6 companies, holds an MBA degree, makes 6 figures annually, is originally from the Urdu speaking region of India (wherever that is) and he cannot complete a sentence without making a mess of it.

your ability to speak English is hardly relevant in an Arabic country.

[Le_Pakistan]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

@PyariCgudia

Um my point exactly. The thread would last less than 1 page, because everyone would agree that's a no-brainer.

I don't think the thread would be less than 1 page if there were comments made such as passing on poor english language skills to your children.

[fairytopia]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

A couple weeks ago, I started talking to a potential rishta. The guy has been working in UAE for the past 6+ years and interested in moving to Canada where I live. I personally would prefer finding someone in Canada or USA. However, this rishta came highly recommended and the only reason I even considered it is because he hasn't lived in Pak for the past few years so I thought he wouldn't be a typical Pakistani guy.

Once we started talking (mainly on whatsapp), I noticed his English isn't the greatest. I didn't want to point it out in case he might get offended but I always wondered how the heck does he work there in an executive position when he makes so many grammar mistakes.

Khair, the other day he said something I wanted to share with my best friend to get her opinion on it and instead of focusing on the content of the message, my friend laughed at his English which made me a little embarrassed. And later when he came online, I couldn't control myself and asked him how he manages at work and in his social life with less than perfect English and why is it still like this after six years of being in UAE.

Needless to say, he didn't take that well and we ended up having a huge argument over something small. What do you all think? Should I have kept my mouth shut but let this bother me internally? Do you think it was rude of me to ask him or did he overreact (because honestly, at times, it is really hard to comprehend him)? My mom keeps telling me that I'm too picky and need to lower my expectations. He did seem okay otherwise, but I noticed he is short tempered and when he feels insulted, he makes sure to put down the next person too.

Okay, I have a friend like that. She talks perfectly well and her grammar is better than mine. But, on chat, it's like she just started using MSN. There are so many abbreviations and shortening of the words. like you is u. have is hv. Your welcome is uw. It was weird in the beginning, but now i'm used to how she writes even though it takes a longer while to reply to her messages. I don't think you should base your expectations on how someone speaks/writes English. Maybe, he feels comfortable writing like that?

[khattichic]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?

@diwana

Even though I like the jest of this post and no qualms about it…but for the OP, with all due respect to khattichick, I will take liberty to point out the pure grammatical mistakes honorable khattichick made.

1- I was born and raised here. You cannot mix two tenses present and past together in one sentence.

2- Had there been times when I inwardly cringed at something he said or wrote in a text/email?

You cannot repeat word “have” in one sentence, it seems very redundant. You have to add the word and and a new part of the sentence with have to make it sound acceptable.

3- He asks me grammar related questions all the time.

He’ll makes it a future sentence but when you say all the time it is contradictory and takes the sentence to the past or something he never has done but you are predicting it in the future.

Also it is not correct to say grammatical related questions…since it is also redundant. grammatical means related to grammar.

Seriously Diwana?

I had forgotten how…pleasant…you could be. Welcome back.

[LucyMay]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

Madz, I sympathize with you. For me, bad grammar/language is a huge turn off. Not just English; massacring any language makes me mad. I know this may sound petty to some, but poor language skills bother me in the same way as bad manners or sloppy dressing would.

If you're embarrased of him already in front of your best friend, do you really think you can overlook this for the rest of your life?

(I don't blame the guy for being angry btw - no one likes to have their faults pointed out to them. However if his anger was way out of proportion, it's probably a red flag)

[Muzna]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

did your friend know that this was a potential rishta that you were communicating with before she laughed out loud at what she was shown?

[inspiron]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

@Echt

English language Skills !!! and than they say that girls being rejected being kali , moti , choti etc....

What if some one is rejected on Urdu ( or any other native language ) skills

Lots of rishtas have rejected me based on my Urdu skills.

One guy I nearly got engaged to because my parents were obsessed with him - we had a really really hard time communicating as I am way more comfortable with english and he was much more comfortable with urdu - we constantly misunderstood eachother, in the end he said nahi for a variety of reasons and it all fell apart and one of the reasons was my urdu just wasn't good enough!

My hubband now though - moved from pak to canada aged 13 and has excellent english and urdu - he sometimes says Gossips instead of gossip and cannot say Thai with a hard T and i find it incredibly cute. He corrects me on my urdu alot but the way he does it is in a nice and positive way and does not make me feel insecure at all.

Everyone is an individual I guess!

[madz124]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

@Echt

English language Skills !!! and than they say that girls being rejected being kali , moti , choti etc....

What if some one is rejected on Urdu ( or any other native language ) skills

Actually, the bhaiyya language of Karachi, fobby UK accent, katar Punjabi (almost jaahilana sounding) accent, excessive use of swearing words, Indian (English) accent, etc are equally a turnoff for me. And I don't think it's a small issue because it affects how much attraction you feel toward the next person and whether you can look up to them or not.

You can't compare language with physical attributes like height and skin tone. One is in your control; the other is God given.

@Airhead

I disagree with the whole "he must be lying about his job title if his grammatical skills are poor" argument...

I agree. Poor grasp of the language doesn't imply low intelligence.

@Airhead

your ability to speak English is hardly relevant in an Arabic country.

Ok, but if someone is interested in improving their job prospects by migrating to an English speaking country, then the least they can do is show some willingness/interest in the western culture and language.

@Muzna

did your friend know that this was a potential rishta that you were communicating with before she laughed out loud at what she was shown?

Yes, she knows. She has otherwise been very supportive about this proposal from the start. I don't think she purposely meant to insult anyone. It was more like, I had gotten used to his broken English and she hadn't so while I didn't even notice the grammar mistakes, it was the first thing that caught her eye.

[KKF]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

as far as accent is concerned, i have seen so many Indian / Pakistani professors with terrible accents teaching the American/Canadian university students and their children speak English in perfect American accent.

i haven't seen any children of illiterate parents who are NOT able to acquire American accent. those kids have out-performed American children as well. as an adult, those children have gone on to become professionals.

[redvelvet]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

@Khalil KhaaN FaaKhta

as far as accent is concerned, i have seen so many Indian / Pakistani professors with terrible accents teaching the American/Canadian university students and their children speak English in perfect American accent.

i haven't seen any children of illiterate parents who are NOT able to acquire American accent. those kids have out-performed American children as well. as an adult, those children have gone on to become professionals.

Kkf...it's not only that the writing should reflect good grammar and mechanics, but also that the content should make sense. If one's sentences are perfectly constructed, but their arguments are nonsensical/bakwaas....it won't go unnoticed, it does not reflect intelligence, and it will stuck out like a sore thumb.

We all have our pet peeves and if a trait just cannot be overlooked, then don't pursue the rishta. I'd be lying if I said that poor grammar isn't a turn-off especially if that is the only thing one has to go by as is the case online...but at the same time those that write really well can still just as easily (through their content) send rather unsavory ideas about their attitude/personality. It's not just poor language skills that kids can learn from their parents, they can also learn personality traits that make it difficult for them to form healthy relationships with others.

[KKF]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

@redvelvet

Kkf...it's not only that the writing should reflect good grammar and mechanics, but also that the content should make sense. If one's sentences are perfectly constructed, but their arguments are nonsensical....it won't go unnoticed, it does not reflect intelligence, and it will stuck out like a sore thumb.

We all have our pet peeves and if a trait just cannot be overlooked, then don't pursue the rishta. I'd be lying if I said that poor grammar isn't a turn-off and that it doesn't give a negative impression especially if that is the only thing one has to go by as is the case online...but at the same time those that write really well can still just as easily (through their content if not sentence structure) send rather unsavory ideas about their attitude/personality. It's not just poor language skills that kids can learn from their parents, they can also learn personality traits that make it difficult for them to form healthy relationships with others.

i was only concentrating on accent aspect of the debate.

[redvelvet]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

@Khalil KhaaN FaaKhta

i was only concentrating on accent aspect of the debate.

Yes, I know you were focusing on accents but you were also refuting the idea of children inheriting communication skills from their parents and it was this point and communication in a more broader sense that I wanted to address in my previous post. As far as accents are concerned..I've taught Goray kids with American accents who have poor grammar/writing skills; I've seen fobs that are more adept. An "acceptable" accent doesn't necessarily translate into strong communication skills. You mentioned Desi students outperforming in language, but those assessments/evaluations don't measure accents; they measure reading comprehension and writing skills among other areas.

[el_topo]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?

@el topo

I didn’t realise grammar was an inherited trait. : |

@""PyariCgudia""

No it’s a learned one, if you have any blood discipline and desire to be good at something, it can be learnt. Easily too actually, plenty of books and courses on this, and maybe these losers just need to pay more attention in class in Pakistan, and they will see their English will be FANTASTIC.

It’s more a reflection on a person’s state of mind, that you are in a field that demands you know English, and you can’t even master that. Either you’re a total lazy arse, or you’re really not in the field of finance. Or some really crappy company decided to settle for you. Oh and OR (my favorite), some moron hired you because your dad made a phone call. Which is the most likely scenario when it comes to Pakistanis and jobs.

Somewhere in there you have a point, it just gets lost in a blaze of righteous generalisation.

[cherryontop]

Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

You're not horrible at all. Everyone has preferences regarding their potential life partner. I am very particular about grammar and accent and it was a big criteria for me. I literally cringe when people pose to be very fluent in a language but then keep making grammatical and spelling errors. It's a whole different thing if you admit you're not fluent in the language and make mistakes.

Don't let anyone make you feel bad about your decision. I also talked to a guy who was very well settled, did his entire undergrad and grad schooling from the US and worked in a very reputable company yet his English was subpar. His accent really bothered me and at that time people told me I was being superficial but I just couldn't come to terms with spending my life with him. I'm glad I stuck to my decision.

Oh also people working in IT can be exceptionally qualified and hold executive positions yet their English doesn't have to be perfect. So having a good grasp of English is not a criteria to get a good job in at least the IT industry even in the US. Heck there are foreign medical graduates in the US who don't exactly have impeccable English yet are practicing medicine here albeit in small community hospital and not academic ones.

[el_topo]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

My word, Diwana, why would you plop all over such a sweet story? Pedant!

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?

@madz124

Yes, we will have at least one function in Toronto and you can lead the bhangra team since my own brothers are pretty useless in this department.

Don’t I get a say in this :(?

This doesn’t seem like a good start, you’re making all the decisions by yourself.

[Islamabadi1]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

A couple weeks ago, I started talking to a potential rishta. The guy has been working in UAE for the past 6+ years and interested in moving to Canada where I live. I personally would prefer finding someone in Canada or USA. However, this rishta came highly recommended and the only reason I even considered it is because he hasn't lived in Pak for the past few years so I thought he wouldn't be a typical Pakistani guy.

Once we started talking (mainly on whatsapp), I noticed his English isn't the greatest. I didn't want to point it out in case he might get offended but I always wondered how the heck does he work there in an executive position when he makes so many grammar mistakes.

Khair, the other day he said something I wanted to share with my best friend to get her opinion on it and instead of focusing on the content of the message, my friend laughed at his English which made me a little embarrassed. And later when he came online, I couldn't control myself and asked him how he manages at work and in his social life with less than perfect English and why is it still like this after six years of being in UAE.

Needless to say, he didn't take that well and we ended up having a huge argument over something small. What do you all think? Should I have kept my mouth shut but let this bother me internally? Do you think it was rude of me to ask him or did he overreact (because honestly, at times, it is really hard to comprehend him)? My mom keeps telling me that I'm too picky and need to lower my expectations. He did seem okay otherwise, but I noticed he is short tempered and when he feels insulted, he makes sure to put down the next person too.

When I was looking for a rishta I made it clear I was not interested in anyone from USA or Canada, there was one girl however which I considered because She was born in Pakistan and had lived in New York only 4 years and I thought she would not be the typical Amreekan girl. You and people like you are in various stages of westernization. Sometimes I wonder what you people do on a Pakistani website eventhough you have practically lost your Pakistaniyat...

[KKF]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

i wonder sometimes that those boys/girls who were born N raised in the west would bother looking for a match in their parent's native land? aren't they able to find someone themselves on their own? are they that lame? why wouldn't they explore the compatibility issues?

i guess they'll say "well, we aren't that westernized!"...i would say "well, you can't ride on two boats and expect a smooth sailing!"

[NAEEM2014]

Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

Of all the comments, you should have picked up the phone and called his workplace to verify about his work / position. It's better to be safe than sorry. Calling UAE is not expensive.

Thnx

[Krypton]

Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?

And here I was thinking that English isn't everyone's first language....

What jhatti said.