Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?
I came from Mars and speak Martian language.
OK. There is no dushmani with you, all I wanted to make you understand that looking for a guy with perfect grammar or any academic language skill is your obsession then go for it. How is dushmani when what I said is what your mom and sisters might be telling you? Are they your dushman too? Really?
You were part of the argument. it takes Two to Tango and you were the one who started the discussion. No idea if you were polite or rude. He was anticipating you as a future wife and you started telling him mistakes in his English? Were you trying to be his English teacher even from the start?
But it seems you need to learn few pearls of wisdom and secrets of life from your family before you embark on journey to married life.
Obviously English language skill should be one of your priority and this can be learned with time when the person spends time in English environment… but grammar and sentence structure? Really? Is he going to do some essay writing all his life with you being the judge?
I mentioned you yourself made mistakes in English in first post. So please get off the high horses and be realistic. You spent some time in Canada and could not write a post with good perfect English let alone grammatically perfect English!
Regarding his priority for family and not having to worry about job, money, friends and language makes him more respectable as a man.
People don’t say they don’t care about the job or money etc. because, somehow they would just become jobless or poor. It all means that the person is family oriented and no matter what he will care for his family and we all know jobs and money come and go. People change jobs all the time for better earning or when they have to move from one place to other.
Perfect Language skill should be the least of your concern. If I have to give you countless example I would…people with mediocre language skill are highly successful as long as they have their trade or academic skills.
People who speak “Queens English” these days are also get mocked at.
In this fast life not very many people care about grammar unless it is some form of academic test or academic job.
Accent: That is also over-rated. From Australian to Irish accent or thick Scottish accent to Southern American drawl (Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana) to Midwestern USA and then to New York, people speak English with many different accents and dialects.
Canadian speak in different ways than some others…who is right who is wrong?
Do you know a lot of Non-Desi women love Pakistanis and Indians who speak with an accent?
Maybe because of so many of them do have high paid jobs and care for their family.
It is interesting that so many non-desis have no problem with accent but desis care so much that they would reject a rishta.
Anyhow: Good luck for your endeavor to find a good rishta that can make you happy.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?
No, not seriously. Sorry for using you as an example to make the point across that even someone with English major can make a few mistakes. No big deal in general. I did like your post though. May you stay happy in your married life.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
This thread reallt hits home because this is a problem i have with my hubby. His english is not completely terrible but its not the best. I knew this from the beginning and it kind of bothered me, but i just thought it would be too superficial to reject someone based off of that. We talk in urdu a lot too, and so it was easy yo communicate with him. Let me tell u one thing, even though i a very ungrateful and jelous wife, marrying him was the best decision of my life. I never even dreamt of getting so much love and happiness in my life, he is truly an angel. Yes his english still bothers me but that hss more to do with my internal problems than him. Dont reject a guy based on such a petty thing. And he may have started arguing because he felt hurt. That is a very offensive thing to say, im not saying u meant any harm, but im sure he felt terribly hurt. So dont judgeh
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?
Listen, you misunderstood my original post. I am not perfect and I am not looking for perfection. I didn’t say that the guy I marry has to have absolute perfect English language skills, nor did I claim that my English is impeccable. But hey, everyone here (except you) understood me just fine, right? The problem I had with this guy is not that he uses abbreviations or slang; his English is actually pretty terrible and I genuinely have trouble understanding him sometimes.
English teacher? Really? I didn’t correct him. I asked him a question! Give me a break!
I wasn’t rude to him. I thought that we had formed some level of frankness and based on that, I asked him why his English is like this even after all this time he spent outside of Pakistan. I wasn’t insulting him. I was looking for an explanation.
You don’t know what my sister and mom are thinking or what their reasoning is for scolding me, so please don’t pretend like you’re all on the same page.
“You spent some time in Canada and could not write a post with good perfect English let alone grammatically perfect English!”
Yeah and your English is flawless, hai na?
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?
Kya baat hai diwana sahab…aaj kal Angrezi baray dihaan se likhrahe hein? Is se pehle to itni ihtiyat se post kabhi nahin ki…ab tak humaray dimagh pe kya guzri hai apke post parke…sirf hum jantay hein
To the point of grammar being important for attraction…there was a time when I felt that way. The guy needs to speak well, be fluent and know how to communicate with no accent in English as well as be grammatically correct.
After meeting about a bazillion people…I have come to the conclusion that grammar has zero to do with who a man is and what he can do for you. It will have no impact on your married life, have nothing to do with the values he’s been instilled with and even less important when raising kids.
I’ve met some really well spoken men who can’t make a good decision to save their lives. And I’ve met some very fobby guys who could treat you like a queen.
But like these past few pages seem to be indicating…the guy has other issues that are causing his grammar to become an eyesore.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
Listen, you misunderstood my original post. I am not perfect and I am not looking for perfection. I didn't say that the guy I marry has to have absolute perfect English language skills, nor did I claim that my English is impeccable. But hey, everyone here (except you) understood me just fine, right? The problem I had with this guy is not that he uses abbreviations or slang; his English is actually pretty terrible and I genuinely have trouble understanding him sometimes.
English teacher? Really? I didn't correct him. I asked him a question! Give me a break!
I wasn't rude to him. I thought that we had formed some level of frankness and based on that, I asked him why his English is like this even after all this time he spent outside of Pakistan. I wasn't insulting him. I was looking for an explanation.
You don't know what my sister and mom are thinking or what their reasoning is for scolding me, so please don't pretend like you're all on the same page.
"You spent some time in Canada and could not write a post with good perfect English let alone grammatically perfect English!"
Yeah and your English is flawless, hai na?
I am listening loud and clear...through your writing. :)
Glad that you said "I am not perfect". No one is.
You have been writing your side of story so far. No idea what was said but it became an argument. People don't ask for explanation about other people English skill. That is plain and simple rude. He was not born and raised in English environment and just being outside Pakistan does not mean someone will be good at English.
If you could not understand him then why not say "excuse me" or "sorry" etc.? No matter how close you might have felt to him, he was still not your husband nor he was your cousin or long term friend.
Its not that everyone understood you here. There are many who disagreed with your approach and thought process. You yourself said your family does not agree with you. So yes whatever the reason, they are not considering you disliking the guy with poor English as a strong enough reason.
Remember, your own title of thread is based on inquiring about his English speaking skill.
I never claimed that my English was flawless and moreover, never judged a person for his/her English skill......you did! ....So you are rightly placed on spot.
Please marry whomever you like and for whatever reason you think is the best for you but don't ask question on an open forum if you get upset when answered.
On a side note: You have not given answer to what you think of the "typical" Pakistani guy. Admittedly it may be a separate discussion as you said, but you brought it up in this thread then might as well answer that here.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?
lol
Pehle Dhiyan Nahin Deta Honga Na!
Rest of your post is great example of being realistic except that yes the guy may have some other issues but this has not been explored yet. He got upset. Rightly so.
All other comments about the job, money etc. I have answered earlier. No big deal.
But in the end OP has to live with him. If she is not comfortable and from very beginning both have sour taste in their mouths, then why even drag this issue?
Even if she gets to marry him (which does not appear to be a chance at the moment), the grudge may still stay.
P.S. You don’t know how painful your posts have been but who cares. Jaane Do.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
I never claimed that my English was flawless and moreover, never judged a person for his/her English skill......you did! ....So you are rightly placed on spot.
So you wanted to put me in my place? Mission accomplished. Congrats! Feel good?
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
I agree. Poor grasp of the language doesn't imply low intelligence.
absolutely.
Ok, but if someone is interested in improving their job prospects by migrating to an English speaking country, then the least they can do is show some willingness/interest in the western culture and language.
I completely agree with you, as they saying goes; when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
He would be the father if your kids and passing off that English to them, so yes it is important. You should talk to him on the phone at least once instead of bluntly asking him because our men never like being challenged. Their less than adequate gonads blow up at the thought someone of the weaker sex could challenge them. By the way I think there is a weird trend amongst Pakistanis in the easy including those in UAE to write in broken English even though they can put together a proper English document for work.
Looks like ABCDs are also catching up on this trend.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
lol
Pehle Dhiyan Nahin Deta Honga Na! :)
Rest of your post is great example of being realistic except that yes the guy may have some other issues but this has not been explored yet. He got upset. Rightly so.
All other comments about the job, money etc. I have answered earlier. No big deal.
But in the end OP has to live with him. If she is not comfortable and from very beginning both have sour taste in their mouths, then why even drag this issue?
Even if she gets to marry him (which does not appear to be a chance at the moment), the grudge may still stay.
P.S. You don't know how painful your posts have been but who cares. Jaane Do. ;)
Rehne hi dein...
So you wanted to put me in my place? Mission accomplished. Congrats! Feel good?
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy’s English speaking skills?
Madz, jaanay do. You don’t have to justify your reasons for not hitting it off with someone.
Everyone has different turn-offs - be it weight, height, education, looks, language, religion. You’re not a horrible person for valuing one attribute over another.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
OP. If his accent bothers you as a potential rishta, sure bring it up.
BUT, you didnt do that. You, to a degree, questioned him professionally and in a way where its hard to not feel personally insulted.
You didnt say it bothers you as a rishta, but rather you doubted his professional ability. I think thats insulting for anyone.
Furthermore, living in Australia, some of the most intellectual and professionally elite minds I have met have had accents.
My mate's dad is the funniest, most clever and intelligent man I have ever met and he has an epic accent.
Accents arent a big deal. It doesnt seem like he has a problem with it....till you pointed it out.
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
The best way to do it, is to listen to them talk on the phone, and watch how they write, and if it makes you uncomfortable, then end it. No need to talk to him about it, it's not like he'll change or anything. Just move on. Say, ok, I gotta go, I'll call you.
I'm beginning to love that line now. "I'll call you". "No, no, I'll call you. Right. I'll call you. Bye"
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
No you're not shallow, it's just a requirement. Speaking to him would probably have helped.
However, as others have said, I would be alarmed at his attitude. If he felt insulted he should have said that. Insulting him, or questioning his credentials is not fair, but neither was his attitude. Respect is very important to guys, most would rather have a woman be angry at them than have contempt for them, so to question his abilities is a fairly serious accusation (assuming that's how he took it, he could just be an arrogant guy who hates any and all criticism).
Re: Am I a horrible person for inquiring about the guy's English speaking skills?
I once spoke to a guy (for this very purpose) who had a funny UK-mixed-pakistani accent. He had done his Masters in UK and prior to that, the rest of schooling in Pak. The first time we spoke, he mentioned to me that at work, he often gets made fun of for his unique accent. I thought that was really honest, brave and cute of him to be upfront about his (now what's the right word here...?) unattractive feature.
In this guy's case, I am sure he is as educated as he says. First masters degree in IT from Pakistan and second in HR from Dubai. His work is a mixture of both. I just wondered how in the world does he work in an IT firm as an HR manager/IT consultant when his English is like that of a child's when he is learning to speak a new language (diwana, before you start throwing tamaatars at me, I'm obviously exaggerating here because bohut ho gaya yaar!)
