The period NFP is referring to has nothing to do with ZAB. It was Ayub's Pakistan. The beemari and downslide started after that when ZAB and Zia inserted religion in the constitution. Ayub for me was the best Pakistani leader after Jinnah. He provided good governance. Under Ayub Pakistan was a strong country, a tolerant and progressive country. It is not like people did not pray or fast or there were no halwa molvis back then but they did not feel the need to display their faith or religiosity. PIA was among the top 6 airlines in the world. Malaysian and Middle-East princes used to come to study at Aitchison College etc. Major industrial development happened during Ayub's time - Steel Mills Mangla and Tarbela dam etc. all happened under his watch. When I talk to my elders, my parents & uncles etc. they only have good things to say about Ayub.
The only blemish on Ayub's almost 11-year rule was A he was a military dictator - but then it was not all his fault. Then ayyash President Sikander Mirza shot himself in the foot when he appointed Ayub Chief Martial Law Administrator CMLA & B he won a rigged Presidential election against Fatima Jinnah
i agree...i never said it was all zia fault although he was the master architect of trying to islamize our society and thus creating all these problems but it was bhutto who infused religion into constitution under molvi pressure.
i deliberately used the comparison of maikada and mosque to make my point that we want a peaceful and tolerant society and if a maikada-based pak where we will have mosques as well will give me that then i am all for it.....i cannot go to mosque in pakistan anyway as a bomb blast may take place!
the point that i am trying to make is that history has taught us that no religion has absolutely ever succeeded in shaping a society...Judaism, Christianity hindusim and isliamism...no one.....Christians finally got rid of church and became free...we muslim countries are facing the same dilemma but sooner or later we will free ourselves of these mullahs and their emotional blackmailing
because religion is not meant to shape a society..if it is, give me one single example in last 1400 years where islam shaped a society and every institution was being developed and governed by islamic principles...they were all kings and families who ran kingdoms and some times used islam as a name...
religion is only good enough to be followed in personal sphere and gain spiritual pleasure and bring discipline to your life...that too if you want it...not by compulsion
some posters are shamelessly calling me names but they dont reflect on pathetic situation of pakistan....no one is talking abt the economic deterioration here.. discussion is abt societal tolerance....right now religious sect killing is all time high...people are generally fanatic and less tolerant in pak...all minorities are being killed. no one is saying that open nude beaches and pubs everywhere but the point is how will we have religious tolerance..just opening more mosques is not the answer..
The period NFP is referring to has nothing to do with ZAB. It was Ayub's Pakistan. The beemari and downslide started after that when ZAB and Zia inserted religion in the constitution. Ayub for me was the best Pakistani leader after Jinnah. He provided good governance. Under Ayub Pakistan was a strong country, a tolerant and progressive country. It is not like people did not pray or fast or there were no halwa molvis back then but they did not feel the need to display their faith or religiosity. PIA was among the top 6 airlines in the world. Malaysian and Middle-East princes used to come to study at Aitchison College etc. Major industrial development happened during Ayub's time - Steel Mills Mangla and Tarbela dam etc. all happened under his watch. When I talk to my elders, my parents & uncles etc. they only have good things to say about Ayub.
The only blemish on Ayub's almost 11-year rule was A he was a military dictator - but then it was not all his fault. Then ayyash President Sikander Mirza shot himself in the foot when he appointed Ayub Chief Martial Law Administrator CMLA & B he won a rigged Presidential election against Fatima Jinnah
Islamabad was planned and set up during his rule too.
Its surprising for me that over 1 million tourists visited Pakistan in 74-75. I have seen with my eyes the number of foreigners diminish, the trickle which was still visiting the country has been dealt a blow. Anyways, I hope we have hit the rock bottom and things will improve with the passage of time.
Tourism peaked in Pakistan in 1974-75. Over a million tourists passed through or landed in Pakistan between these two years. The government declared tourism to be an industry. To mark the occasion, the Ministry of Tourism issued a special stamp to celebrate Pakistan becoming a popular tourist spot in the South Asian region.
‘between two years’…not sure if it is in one year or two years… wish he gave a source… anyways, a million in one year is pretty much possible. Wonder why it dropped after 75. 1980’s weren’t THAT unstable for Pakistan. They said a million visited in 2012 as well. One of my relatives had a French magazine form 1930s where there was an article about Hyderabad which said something like: “a walk down the Tilak Chari feels like an evening walk in Paris”. Sounds like an exaggeration but not bad.
Anyways, I personally know at least a dozen non-Pakistanis who are desperately waiting for things to become peaceful so that they can visit the mountains in the north.
^ I desperately wanted to visit Balochistan during the past few years (Dera Bugti) but couldnt...what can be expected from the foreigners?
I have seen foreigners visiting Rawalpindi, Taxila ruins (in the 90's). I have seen many foreigners (maybe on transit flights) in Karachi airport in the 80's, the last time I transited (two years back) through Karachi I dont remember seeing even one.
Slightly off topic but interestingly enough we see injustice or lack of merit-based appointments right from the beginning i.e. from the time of Liaqat. When you make such biased decisions based on personal/political ambitions, elected leaders lose all moral authority imo (and support within the army’s top brass)
Bhutto made the same mistake when in 1976 he promoted Zia ahead of a number of more senior officers … Yeh ‘duffer conservative apolitical molvi’ mera kya bigarr ley ga? He will always be my obedient servant!
NS did the same when in 1998 he promoted Musharraf ahead of three more senior lieutenant generals … Yeh apolitical urdu-speaking hai, he probably doesn’t have huge support within the Punjabi-dominated army and will never dare to oust me!
Lt Gen. Ali Kuli Khan was the deserving candidate Ali Kuli Khan Khattak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That is hardly any reason to hate anyone so much. Do you think he is the only one writing blogs/articles “like a propaganda machine”?
Actually, it is the second part in Urdu which is the cause of that despise. Understandable. But the bold part is unfair accusation.
I don’t know if what you say in Urdu is right or not, whether Paracha is Muslim or not. I can’t agree with everything he says. But I only see what message he gives in most of his articles. He might be obnoxious but he most of the time he is hardly wrong most of the time.
If he is telling the truth then abusing him only because of prejudiced notions is intellectual dishonesty.
The only blemish on Ayub's almost 11-year rule was A he was a military dictator - but then it was not all his fault. Then ayyash President Sikander Mirza shot himself in the foot when he appointed Ayub Chief Martial Law Administrator CMLA & B he won a rigged Presidential election against Fatima Jinnah
If we look closely then we will realize that the 'B' part above is what put the foundations of breakup of Pakistan. Sheikh Mujeeb was a supporter of Fatima Jinnah.
It was not mere 'blemish', it was a 'crime' against Pakistan.
He got all right what he wants to say. To be honest, when I came across his blogs, etc first time, I enjoyed it and sometimes I even started discussions in History forum based on what he wrote, but with the passage of time, I realised that he portrays thoughts from one side and have no feelings for the other side.
Its ok to claim himself a liberal he talked about religious people(read as Mullah), but how will you take his comment like this one:
What was the need of referring to Khilafat while quoting a news related to some British Asian caught for sex crimes? You see how he links things out of proportion. I don’t hate him, I just have issues with his attitude of giving such statements just because he doesn’t like a particular ideology. For me, he is just like Shoaib Mansoor, for whom each and every sin of the world is embodied in religious people.
i agree...i never said it was all zia fault although he was the master architect of trying to islamize our society and thus creating all these problems but it was bhutto who infused religion into constitution under molvi pressure.
i deliberately used the comparison of maikada and mosque to make my point that we want a peaceful and tolerant society and if a maikada-based pak where we will have mosques as well will give me that then i am all for it.....i cannot go to mosque in pakistan anyway as a bomb blast may take place!
the point that i am trying to make is that history has taught us that no religion has absolutely ever succeeded in shaping a society...Judaism, Christianity hindusim and isliamism...no one.....Christians finally got rid of church and became free...we muslim countries are facing the same dilemma but sooner or later we will free ourselves of these mullahs and their emotional blackmailing
because **religion is not meant to shape a society..if it is, give me one single example in last 1400 years where islam shaped a society and every institution was being developed and governed by islamic principles...they were all kings and families who ran kingdoms and some times used islam as a name...
**religion is only good enough to be followed in personal sphere and gain spiritual pleasure and bring discipline to your life...that too if you want it...not by compulsion
some posters are shamelessly calling me names but they dont reflect on pathetic situation of pakistan....no one is talking abt the economic deterioration here.. discussion is abt societal tolerance....right now religious sect killing is all time high...people are generally fanatic and less tolerant in pak...all minorities are being killed. no one is saying that open nude beaches and pubs everywhere but the point is how will we have religious tolerance..just opening more mosques is not the answer..
Hum door hi kyon jayein. Look at the Mughals, some of them were good. I like Babur for his chivalry & leadership and Akber for his dynasty and kingship but some of them like Aurangzeb were just too autocratic. Shah Jahan built Taj Mahal, Shalimar Bagh and a few other famous architectures and nothing else I can praise about him!
Yes the Mughals ruled India for so many years but some of the elite Mughals were also arrogant and morally degenerate ..... sharaabi, gamblers, womanizers etc. Anyone who has visited the Lahore Fort must have must have seen the open-air hamams!
Just kidding but lack of maikada is probably the reason why we stopped producing good poets!
Meer, Dard, Akbar Allahabadi, Ghalib, Haali and Iqbal etc. they all loved having a jam (let Allah judge them for that) every now and then but they were all wonderful poets no doubt.
Its surprising for me that over 1 million tourists visited Pakistan in 74-75. I have seen with my eyes the number of foreigners diminish, the trickle which was still visiting the country has been dealt a blow. Anyways, I hope we have hit the rock bottom and things will improve with the passage of time.
My brother remembers that time somewhat as well, but what he remembers is hippies doing nasha in Karachi. Pakistan, along with iran and Afghanistan, was on the hippie route that I think ended up in india. We know what happened to iran and Afghanistan in the eighties even if Pakistan itself wasn't that bad in the eighties. The real loss was the cities of Afghanistan like Kabul which warlords ransacked especially in 92-96 after najibullah was ousted with the withdrawal of dostum's support to his govt.
Why can't we have the Pre-80s Pakistan again? Oh yeah, because of fanatical, insane, looney edited trying to impose THEIR way of life on others.
I think the next time Pakistan gets a good leader (Nawaz is probably not gonna do jack ish), he should educate the youth to be tolerant, open-minded, and not shove their way of life onto others.
Why can't we have the Pre-80s Pakistan again? Oh yeah, because of fanatical, insane, looney edited trying to impose THEIR way of life on others.
I think the next time Pakistan gets a good leader (Nawaz is probably not gonna do jack ish), he should educate the youth to be tolerant, open-minded, and not shove their way of life onto others.
Reason we can't have pre-80s Pakistan is some idiot countries sowed seeds of terrorism using parts of a religion everyone now seems to hate, the tree is now kicking Pakistan's behind and those idiot countries are blaming that religion.
