Allegations Against Ahmediyya

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

"You should comprehend the real nature of 'Shariat'. He who sets out a number of Injunctions and Prohibitions through Revelation received by him and establisheds a canon for his 'Ummat' becomes an Apostle bearing the Canonic Law (Shariat). My revelations include both Injunctions and Prohibitions".
(Arba'in, No. 4, by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Pages 7-83).

what does this statement of mirza mean?

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"My belief is that it is unlawful to say funeral prayers for those who pray behind the non-Ahmadis, for in my view such people are outside the pale of Ahmadiyat. Similarly, it is unlawful to say funeral prayers for those who give their daughters in marriage to the non-Ahmadis and die without offering repetance for this sin".
(Letter of Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmood Ahmad, published in Al-Fazl, April 13, 1926).

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And a very prominent Ahmedi observed this at a very significant junction of History.
Sir Zafrullah Khan - a draftee of the Lahore Resolution, the first Foreign Minister of Pakistan & a very close friend of Quaid-e-Azam did not attended the Funeral Prayers of the Quaid, when asked about it he said call me a non-muslim minister of a muslim country or a muslim minister of a non muslim country in both cases it is not permissible for me to offer the funeral prayer for Qauid

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This is a tricky statement: Which opens the door of becoming prophet even after Mirza. This statment applies/requres only one CONDITION "which can cancel the Muhammadi SAW shariyah till qayamah".

Let me write in simple:
- he is not a prophet (old or new) who cancels shariyah
- he can be a prophet (old or new) who dont cancel shariyah

A person who is claiming as a Prophet AND fulfils the condition can be considered as true prophet.

It means there can be more prophets who cares for the condition EVEN after Mirza.

Did mirza or any other Qadiyani mentioned this in any of their Statment?

Timepass - November 2013
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I have found the book. Could you kindly tell me which page number it is on the book?

www.alislam.org/books/3in1/Chapter-4.pdf

Secondly what is your allegation regarding this passage you quoted? Or do you only want translation of this statement in simple English?

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Could you kindly provide me with the referenced material as I would like to read the whole statement?

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Let me help you to find.

Allegation: Mirza is pretending that he is Sahib-e- Shariyat.

Following is the scanned image of that portion of the page.

**Translation: **

Lahoo Bech kar roti khareed laya hoon
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Miss Aramis, first of all pls download the text Arbain from alislam.org and start reading from Arbain No. 4 page 1 upto page 8. If you read it carefully, I am sure you will get your answers. In short, the promised Messiah was discussing two quranic verses Bani-israil-76 and Al-Haqqah-45 (incl. bismillah. otherwise numbering would be 75 and 44). These ayat tell us that Allah don't spare those who attribute falsehood to Him and inflict punishment on them in this life. promised messiah is presenting these ayats as a sign of his being from Allah.
regarding Shariat, he says that his wahi also contained 'Amr' and 'Nahi', as described in shariat, in the form of 'Tajdeed' but no new law or teaching has been added.
I request you to please do your own research (by reading the original text with context) before bringing the matter on table.

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You dont have to quote me as I have made very clear in previous posts that I have no interest in replying you until you learn manners of discussions.

The question was posted for the original person who made query which is ARAMIS.

Anyhow your query is replied in above post by other Ahmadi.

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No any answer by any Qadiyani is received. Since you dont have any suitable answer to the allegation; the only choice left is to accept the fact in a decent manner. Since that allegation is left un-answer. i moved to the next one of my choice.

Even if you read the suggested pages, you will not get the answer. because Mirza is discussing about two verses in which he is saying that "Allah dont spare those who attribute falsehood to HIM and so and so". This is not the point raised in the Allegation.

the Allegation is ; while discussing the issue. Mirza said he is also a "Sahib e Shariyat" in regards to the Revelation of "Amr" and 'Nahi". If this is one of the definition of "Sahib e-Shariyat" Then all other Prophets are Sahib -e- Shariyat including Mirza as he is pretending. This is against the doctrines of Ahle Sunnah wal Jamat. This is remained un-answered.

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

For anyone who may have questions about the allegation on the passage from Arba'een 4 regarding Promised Messiah (as) claiming to have shariah should consider the whole argument in those pages.

The argument is that if he was lying about receiving revelations, he should have been punished by God. His opponents tried to explain this by saying that the verse was only for Holy Prophet (saw). Promised Messiah (as) refuted that by saying that the truth of this verse should be evident only if it is applied to a liar at some point, thus this becomes a universal rule.
The other argument was that this verse was only for those who claimed to have brought Shariah and lied about it. Promised Messiah (as) has simply stated that if this should qualify him to come under the punishment, then yes, he claims to have received the revelations which can be seen as providing shariah. i.e., do's and dont's. Although those revelations only re-iterated the existing orders mentioned in Quran.

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The alligation has nothing to do with “punished by God” or “lying about receiving revelations”. The alligation is that Mirza is pretending while giving an example that he is a “Sahib e Shariyat”, which is not acceptable even in Qadiyani faith.

The following the reply to this post for urdu readers.

not interest what happend,

Just wondering

this is what prophets do? challenge people like this and talk about money..

DANCE AND MASTI IS ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN....!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Mr. inuit, the first allegation regarding ‘claimaint of shariah’ has been adequately answered. I pray to Allah to give you guidance.

I am glad that you once again brought up the issue of Maulvi sanaullah amritsari.
Although de-tox..ed has already elaborated this issue but still I can provide you with some references that you can read.

1)Description on Ahmadiyya website
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

2)Another link from an Ahmadiyya website
Moulvi Sanaullah Amratsari ke saath mubahla ki haqeeqat

3)here is the link from lahore ishaat-e- islam website
Did Hazrat Mirza Sahib Pass Away After Undertaking a Mubahila (Spiritual Duel) with Maulvi Sanaullah of Amritsar?

4)Book by a prominent disciple of the Promised Meissiah, dr. basharat ahmed, (Mujadad-e-Azam vol II, page 1133 - 1169). This book is available from Lahore ishaat-e-islam (Mujaddid-e-Azam (Vol. 2) by Dr. Basharat Ahmad @ aaiil.org) website. Although I am not a lahori ahmadi but this guy has gone in fair amount of detail to discuss this issue. worth reading

So if you are really searching for the truth, go and read above mentioned material.

In short, Maulvi sanaullah never got the courage to do Mubahila as we know it. He alluded the Mubahila duel offer four times. and this is what happened…(extract from ahmadiyya website ref. no. 1)

"So, as far as the mubahala prayer of Hazrat Mirza Sahibas, published on 15th April 1907, is concerned, in view of the condition therein that the liar die during the lifetime of the true, Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib refused to become the second party to it and on the contrary took the position that the liar as against the true is given more time and longer life to continue his evil deeds. Accordingly, until the demise of Hazrat Mirza Sahibas, Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib not only remained firm on this position but emphasized it further in stronger words. In his booklet Moraqqai Qadiani of August 1907, by publishing the following text, he affixed on himself by his own words the permanent seal of being a liar. He wrote:

The Holy Prophet Muhammad, on whom be peace, in spite of being a true prophet, passed away before Maseelma Kazzab. Maseelma in spite of being a liar died after the true person but because he finally died in disappointment and frustration, therefore, there is no doubt in the authenticity of the prayer.
(Moraqqai Qadiani, August 1907)"

“As far as Hazrat Mirza Sahibas is concerned, he did not reject the condition imposed by Maulvi Sanaullah that the true person would die in the lifetime of the liar until he passed away. Moreover, Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib made it very clear that not only will the liar continue to live after the the death of the true person but also eventually he will die a death of disappointment and frustration.”

"Maulvi Abdul Majid Sohdarvi, biographer of Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib, writes in his book Seerati Sanai, published by Maqbool Aam Press, Lahore, that:

The moment he left his house, vagabonds and looters who were waiting for the opportunity swept in and took everything, including all the household items, cash and jewelry. After looting and robbing, they put the house on fire. That was, however, not the end of it; the looters also put on fire and turned to ashes Maulana’s most precious and valuable collection of books which included some very rare publications worth thousands of rupees and which he had brought together after great pains and expense. The loss of these books was no less distressing to Maulana than the loss of his only son. Those books were the most valuable estate of his life and some of them were so rare that it was not only difficult but impossible to replace them.

This violent grief remained with Maulana until his death and, in fact, these two tragic incidents were the major cause of his sudden death. The sudden loss of his only son and the burning of his most precious collection of books, and the affliction of both of these misfortunes over a short while claimed his life."

rest you can read from the sources mentioned.

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

Can I say again for the knowledge of all users that when I created this thread the soul purpose was that a person puts up an allegation and then we reply. It does not have to turn into long pages of discussion if one party says that I have completed my reply then it is up to opposite party to agree or disagree and not start slandering etc.

Hence to keep the thread going in lively, friendly, respective manner (GS long live policy) then give respect and take respect. If you cant then I would really recommend that there are great threads on GS which would really appreciate your posts.

So in short...keep the discussion friendly. We are not at a WAR ZONE or something. Also I suggest new comers to view the GS Religious Thread Rules and regulations before posting.

So in short only post an allegation and we will try to reply. In reply you can say which points you are not happy about and we will try to explain. If you are still not happy and we think we have done justice in replying then just pray to Allah for guidance for yourself and for us and move on to next one. Thanks

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

^^
"In reply you can say which points you are not happy about and we will try to explain. If you are still not happy "

same applies to you?

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Mirza died before the age, when God told him. I dont know why? a must read scanned image.

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This is again wrong allegation and I am happy that you brought this up.

Here the opponents say that whilst the Promised Messiah(as) conveyed to the world, by means of revelation, that he would pass away at the age of 80 years, or thereabouts, he in fact fell well short of this (1908-1835 = 73 years), thus highlighting the falsity of this particular revelation which, they purport, calls into question his entire claim to be the Imam Mahdi and Promised Messiah. For people of sincere intent, the below information will make clear, and come as no surprise, that it is in fact the opponents who are incorrect.

The reality is that it was conveyed to the Promised Messiah(as), by means of revelation, that he would die within a certain span of years and that is exactly what took place. The three principle revelations received by the Promised Messiah(as) were:

‘‘Eighty years or thereabouts, or a little more, and you will witness your distant progeny’’
(Arbayeen, No.3, 1900, pp.29-30; Zameema Tohfae-Golarviyyah).

In another place the Promised Messiah(as) is again given a similar revelation:

‘’…eighty years or thereabouts.’’
(Izala Auham pp. 632-635)

And finally the Promised Messiah(as) is more specifically told in an Urdu revelation that he would pass away at the age of:

‘‘Eighty and four or five more, or four or five less.’’
(Haqeeqatul Wahi pp. 70-108)

On the subject of the date of his birth, the Promised Messiah(as) writes in his book ‘Tohfa Ghowladiyya’

that he was born on Friday 14th of the Lunar calendar. Further clarifying this, Hadhrat Mufti Mohammad Sadiq(ra), a close companion of the Promised Messiah(as), relates to us in his book ‘Dhikr-e-Habib’ (Seerah of the Life of the Promised Messiah (as) ), that the Promised Messiah(as) said that he was born, using the lunar calendar, on Friday 14th of the month of Phaalgun (Hindi: phaagun or phaalgun is a month of the Hindi calendar. In India’s national civil calendar, Phaalgun is the twelfth month of the year, beginning on 20 February and ending on 21 March).

Upon further research there appear to be only two occasions upon which the above three common denominators (1.Friday, 2.14th day of a Lunar month, 3.the Indian month of Phaalgun) occurred simultaneously:

  1. 17th Shubat (February) 1832AD = 14th Ramadhan 1247 AH = 1st
    Phaalgun 1888
  2. 13th Shubat (February) 1835 AD = 14th Shawwal 1250 AH = 1st
    Phaalgun 1891

The Promised Messiah(as) wrote in his book ‘Haqeeqatul Wahi’ that he received his first revelation from Allah(swt) in the year 1290 AH. Then writing in his book ‘Taryaqul Qulub’ he writes that when he reached the age of 40 years he began to receive revelation. In assessing these two figures we come to the understanding that the Promised Messiah(as) was most likely born in the year 1250AH/1835AD (1290 – 40 = 1250).

Furthermore, if we calculate the age of the Promised Messiah(as) upon his death, applying the AD calendar, we conclude that he passed away roughly at the age of 73 years old (1908-1835=73). However, when we, as Muslims and followers of the Islamic calendar, more appropriately apply the Hijri calendar we find that he lived for roughly 76 years (1326 – 1250 = 76)

The calculation for converting a date from the Gregorian calendar into the equivalent Hijri date is as follows: Gregorian date (i.e. 2000AD) minus the Hijri date (i.e. 600AH) multiplied by 33 and divided by 32 (In this example the calculation would be as follows 2000 – 600 x 33 / 32 = 1443).

The calculation regarding the Promised Messiah’s(as) Hijri age would be as follows:

Birth: 1835 - 622 x 33 / 32 = 1250 AH
Death: 1908 - 622 x 33 / 32 = 1326 AH
1326-1250 = 76 years

**In light of this, the Promised Messiah’s(as) revelations mentioned at the outset of this article were properly fulfilled. **It is worth mentioning that it is remarkable that the opponents of the Promised Messiah(as), a group of ‘Muslim’ intellects (‘Ulema), chose to discredit him by almost instinctively turning to the non-Islamic calendar. Perhaps there exists some ‘logical’ reason for this! Indeed, whilst there is no wrong in applying the Gregorian calendar, they should have realised that it was more befitting of the Imam of the Age(as) to discuss his age in reference of the Islamic Hijri calendar.

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:salam:

Muslims and Qadiyanis both can find usefull information at this link inshallah.

[Welcome to Dawat Section For Ahmedies](Irrefutable proofs for Qadiyanis)

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

Here is an interesting book

Islamic Library - The Finality of Prophethood > Aqida Khatm-e-Nubuwwat