pagloo.. you quoted me, and the funny thing is that i didn't write that. is that a mistake or intentional?
what you quoted below is not from me..
Originally posted by nomaan:
And by the way, if Hazrat Ali didn’t like Hazrat Umar, then why did he give the hand of his’s and Hazrat Fatima RA’s daughter Khulthum to Hazrat Umar PBUH in marriage?
Shi’ahism was started by what Islam refers to as Kharjis of Iraq.
what i meant from the post that i did write;(3 or 4 posts up) was that whateven happened to whoever, after the prophet (pbuh), should not interfere with the religion. if you can argue with that, go ahead. i don't care who was the caliph and if the order was right or not, thats more of a political problem than a religious one.
[quote]
Originally posted by nomaan: simple fact of the matter is that shias are giving an event that happened after islam was **completed, undue importance. whatever happened after the prophets(pbuh) death should not interfere with the religion.
**
[/quote]
Wow!! thats funny mr. noman. So u will not give importance to anything that happens after Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) died. Wow!!!
Then why do you hypocrats give importance to killings in kashmir, palestine, afghanistan and so forth. Arent these events after Islam was completed?
I just have one suggestion, well actually two: Think before you type. and stick to the topic!!
You have shown yr hit and run tactics once again. That's all u sunnis can do.
Your posts have shown the depth of yr ignorance.
Let Eid go bye. Then I will deal with the likes of u.
**
[/quote]
do really have to say ne thing aishah.
all i can figure out is that u don't have ans to my ques.
this ques was asked like a mnth ago n still haven't seen ne reply.
so wat does it shows--go figure.
btw why wait until after eid so dat the post gets old n ppl forget about it.
hit n run tactic hmmmmmmm. i don't know about dat. n why u talkin about all sunnis .i'm one person so u should rather say nicks hit n run tactics rather sunnis
[quote]
Originally posted by Azam:
** Wow!! thats funny mr. noman. So u will not give importance to anything that happens after Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) died. Wow!!!
Then why do you hypocrats give importance to killings in kashmir, palestine, afghanistan and so forth. Arent these events after Islam was completed?
I just have one suggestion, well actually two: Think before you type. and stick to the topic!!
**
[/quote]
??? i should think?? i said these events should not interfere with religion. I don't see kashmir, palestine, and afghanistan interfering with relgion. as i said before, most of these events are more political in nature and should be treated as such. and beside..i don't see the afghans, palentinians and kashmiri forming a new sect.
i think you should call yourself a hypocrit as you dont practice what you preach ( thinking before typing )
[Shakir 33:33] And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness(rijs) from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.
Btw the ayat is not continious. There is a break just before “Allah only…”
This Ayah has 2 parts. In the First part Allah(SWT) is talking to the wives of the Prophet(SAWS) by a feminine pronoun. In the second part
“..Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness(rijs) from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying”
The Pronoun changes to combine masculine pronoun. So since the pronoun is combined masculine that means that the majority of the ppl in the group (ahl-al-bayt) should be males.
Lets take your suggestion and include the wives of the Prophet(SAWS).
Number of women=9+1(Bibi Fatima (AS)
Mumber of men=4
This does not agree with the masculine pronoun as WHEN A COMBINED MASCULINE PRONOUN IS USED THEN THE MAJORITY SHOULD BE MALE. However hear we see the majority is female.
Ok lets try to find a solution to this problem
There are 2 choices:
1)To exclude bibi Fatima(AS) from the group
2)To exclude the wives(all 9) of the Prophet(SAWS)
So now lets try choice 1
total number of women=9
total number of men=4
Still there is a female majority which therefore does not agree with the masculine pronoun used.
Choice no2
total number of women=1
total number of men=4
Now this agrees with the pronoun. As WHEN A COMBINED MASCULINE PRONOUN IS USED THE MAJORITY SHOULD BE MALES.
CONSEQUENTLY IF A COMBINED FEMININE PRONOUN IS USE THE MAJORITY SHOULD BE FEMALES.
However in the second part of the ayah a COMBINED MASCULINE PRONOUN IS USED. therefore The wives cannot be included in the Household of he Prophet(SAWS)
Furthermore there is a clear hadith from sahih muslim that confirms the exclusion of the wives
Chapter 9: THEE MERITS OF THE FAMILY OF THE PROPHET (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM)
Book 031, Number 5955:
'A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)
You can actually access this hadith at the following url: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/
Can you provide me a authentic sunni hadith that tells me the wives are included in the ahlul bayt(of the Prophet(SAWS)
I am just shocked to hear such ignorance amongst the sunni community regarding the ahl-al-bayt. I was really expecting your scholars to agree with the above.
Question#:
2342.0
Question Date:
1997-12-18
Topic :
Ahl al Bayt or the Family of Prophet Muhammad
Question:
Panjtan-Pak Five Holy People Do sunni’s believe in the Pajtan-Pak (Five holy persons) who are Fatima-El-Zorha (the prophets daughter), the prophet, Ali his brother in law, and the prophets two grand sons Hassan, and Hussien. Peace be with you
Answer:
Dear Br. H. As-salaamu alaykum. Muslims believe in them and love all of the Ahl al Bayt i.e., the family of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Many Sunni Muslims call their children Mohammad, Fatima, Ali, Hassan, and Hussein for this reason and they pray to be with them in Heaven. But unlike other groups, the Sunni Muslims donÕt give to these beloved people any aspect of Holiness and Sacredness that is not acceptable in Islam. Thank you for asking and God knows best.
Source:
IslamiCity
If you still don’t agree with me then please tell me that the hadith that i presented to you is false, even though its related by Hazrat Aisha herself
Or provide me with another hadith stating that the the wives are included in the Ahl-al-Bayt of the prophet(AS)
Mashallah Nomaan sahab
Kiya zehniat heh apki
Are you trying to say that Islam was meant to be followed during the time of the HOly Prophet, the matters that come after him doesn't matter, if someone come and ranges war against fellow muslims or kill them for no reason, (kaaba yah Quran ki behurmati kare) aur start spreading false information doesnt concern us because Holy Prophet is not here anymore, doesn't islam ask us for Jihad(fight for the religon) don't u believe in it. No wonder you people have left what the Holy Prophet taught as at Ghadeer-e-Khum cause he wasnt there anymore and elected you own Khaleefa's.
[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited December 25, 2000).]
[quote]
Originally posted by nomaan:
**
??? i should think?? i said these events should not interfere with religion. I don't see kashmir, palestine, and afghanistan interfering with relgion. as i said before, most of these events are more political in nature and should be treated as such. and beside..i don't see the afghans, palentinians and kashmiri forming a new sect.
i think you should call yourself a hypocrit as you dont practice what you preach ( thinking before typing )
later
**
[/quote]
blah blah blah. are you on drugs or what???noman???
Well I have not been givin one simple answere for my simple question " why do u ppl beat the shit out a each other " and also please let me know which quranic ayaah or hadith tells u to torture ur self, and mind u islam allows very moderate kind of greaving and one is not even allowed to cry out loud if some one dies then how can u explain ur inhuman behavior.
The only reason I see is that u ppl are parhy likhey jahil.
I no i wont get any answers so u ppl have a good EID.
taking things out of context seems to be the norm here. tell me this. how does jihad change what i wrote. i said religion can't be changed. whatever happens. tell me how my post implied that jihad can't be waged? islam says that jihad should be waged in the cases you mentioned, so it will be waged.
as far as the khalifa thing goes, i wasn't there to cast my vote. it don't care about that. was it fair or not?, i can't do anything about that. if you think that hazrat ali (ra) should have been the first khalifa, good. if you believe otherwise, fine. it doesn't change anything in islam..
Azam :-
i knew you couldn't have faulted what i wrote, so i wasn't expecting anything sensible. thanks for proving me right..
just to shut you up, i'll agree with that. yes, i'm on drugs..
[quote]
Originally posted by azee1: Well I have not been givin one simple answere for my simple question " why do u ppl beat the shit out a each other " and also please let me know which quranic ayaah or hadith tells u to torture ur self, and mind u islam allows very moderate kind of greaving and one is not even allowed to cry out loud if some one dies then how can u explain ur inhuman behavior.
The only reason I see is that u ppl are parhy likhey jahil.
I no i wont get any answers so u ppl have a good EID.
[/quote]
As-Salamun-Alaikum
well What's the use azee1. If provide you with a hadith from our Imams(AS) you'll autmoatically consider it wrong.
.Islam allows moderate grieving?. If some one came and tortured and killed your family infront of you, will you just grieve moderately?
u still don't have a clue wat we r tryin to say huh.
u said if some one came n tortured.......
wat r tryin to say. r sayin wat we will do at dat moment or wat we gona do 1000 yrs later.
there is a difference n if u can c it then i feel sorry for u
where does grievin includes beatin urself or i rather say self tortured which i think is also prohibited in ISslam.
Azee1 said *U pl just dont get it. Am talkin abt beating one self up and ur going to the cryin part. Ofcourse every one cryz in front of ALLAH. But how do u explain the inhuman behaviour of torturing one self. Now dont tell me that ALL the nabees did that too.
Well ill be waiting very impatiently to read ur reply, I just have to see what hadith or Ayaah u manipulate, coz there is no way u will admit ur own fault.
Untill them plaese keep beating the shit outa ur self and ur fellow shiats.
*
Had you asked this question in a better manner i would've tried to reply your query. Its quiet amazing how we do the matam and other get the pain from it. I warn you to watch your laguage against shias. I dont see any shia calling sunnis bad things.
You know what people... especially you shias out there... you haven't been able to prove a point... get that... nothing.. nada.. zilch..
Why do you keep giving references to all things we are not concerned with... do you think Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH) would leave us with a religion which is incomplete.. why do you need to follow someone other than Muhammad(PBUH)..? Lets just not get into why Muawiah was wrong or Hazrat Ali(SA) was right.. ok.. or how Ahly-e-Bayt is described...
These things are minor, the real things are the beliefs... we weren't there when history happened.. so stop quoting.. i've heard enough conflits between what you guys have posted so leave the quoting from Hadith books.. don't twist my post around.. just read the following points and reply to them..
1.) Why the need to mourn on Muharram 9/10... Ok, so it was the day of Karbala... Hazrat Imam Hussein(RA) embraced shahadat.. it was a day when a person proved how strong a muslims will should be... how a muslim shouldn't bow in front of wrong... do you know what a great darja shahadat is... Hazrat Imam Hussein(RA) will surely be the prince of jannat... so why do you cry or mourn or whatever...?
2.) Why the hate towards Hazrat Abu Bakr(RA), Hazrat Usman(RA), or Hazrat Omar(RA).. wouldn't you agree that these were three of the most strong followers of islam in Muhammad(PBUH)'s time..? If they had been wrong, wouldn't the Prophet(PBUH) have seen right through them... Wouldn't Allah(SWT) have warned the Prophet(PBUH) about them...
3.) Where in the Quran does it say that Hazrat Ali(RA) should have been the successor to our Holy Prophet(PBUH)... Do you know where shiaism started from..? It started because of the increased mazalim on the family of the prophet..it was just a movement to get the people to see how the family of the prophet was suffering it is not what you guys have made of it..! You people are just spreading hate...!
4.)Dont you think that islam is based more on your personal deeds than on your family..? The person closest to Allah is the person who follows taqwa and lives a righteous life..! Why the thinking then that Imamat was only carried through the 12 generation of Hazrat Ali(RA)..?
5.) Why do you need to prove that the wives of the prophet were not from Ahl-e-Bayt..? Even if they weren't.. how does this effect how we follow islam..?
6.) Why the need to prove that Hazrat Ali(RA) was the successor to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).. All that is history and done and over with..!.. Accept the fact that the 4 khulfa-e-rashideen were righteous and close friends of the Prophet(PBUH)
don't sidetrack, don't use the hit and run techniques, don't ignore.. just ANSWER..!
whomsoever agrees with me that the ahl-al-bayt(AS) did not consist of the wives please say yes.
Then I will proceed with my conversation and will try to answer your question(S).
spreading hate, shias are spreading hate then?
nice on hate?
well who does those anti shia speeches in pakistan?who says that shias are kaafir? who says that killing a shia is a 'good' deed
why do so many shias ge killed in mosques in karachi? because there doing tabarrah or they are praying
shias spreading hate? I don't think so.
why has iran sent 21,000 troops in palestine after the boy(Muhammad AL-Durrah) was killed as seen on tv. why?because they hate palestinians who are sunni
why has been hizbullah liberated lebanon ,with an army of 4000, from israel domination. Why is the hizbullah still striving to liberate palestine?because they hate sunnis
if anything hatred is in you you. You even refuse to accept us as muslims.
Are you aware that they charge kaafir(jizya) tax in afghanistan to shias. Whereas there is no such thing in iran. Infact in iran shias and sunnis pray side by side.
If anything we want unity. stop using the shias hate sunnis routine on me
[quote]
Originally posted by Salman-:
*As-Salamun-Alaikum
whomsoever agrees with me that the ahl-al-bayt(AS) did not consist of the wives please say yes.
*
[/quote]