Posted by Salman-
MY DEAR RARE DIAMONDS LET ME TELL YOU A LITTLE SOMETHING ABOUT THE ARABIC LANGUAGE
WHEN BOTH MALES AND FEMALES ARE BEING ADDRESSED AND THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE ARE MALE THEN A 'MASCULINE PRONOUN' IS USED. OK NOW HERE ACCORDING TO YOU THE WIVES ARE ALSO INCLUDED CORRECT?
COUNT THE NUMBER OF FEMALES: BIBI FATIMA(as) +9 WIVES OF THE PROPHET(as) (i AM NOT SURE OF THE EXACT NUMBER. SO THE TOTAL NUMBER OF FEMALES IS AROUND 10. NOW COUNT THE NUMBER OF MALES PROPHET (SAWS), ALI(as), HASAN(as), HUSAYN(as). TOTAL MALES =3
NOW THEN SINCE THE MAJORITY IS OF FEMALES THEN WHY IS A MASCULINE NOUN USED. WHENEVER THERE IS FEMALE MAJORITY THE NOUN CHANGES TO A FEMININE ONE. HOWEVER HERE ITS MASCULINE.
THERE CAN BE TWO REASONS:
1)EITHER THE WIVES ARE NOT INCLUDED
2)MAZALLAH THE AYAT IS WRONG?
SO
WA-SALAMUN-ALAIKUM-WA-RAHMATULLAHI-WA-BARAKATU
PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE ON MUHAMMAD(saws) AND AHLUL BAYT(as)
Reply:
Alright let’s look at the whole ayah once again.
O Prophet, say to your wives, If you should desire the worldly life and its adornment, then come, I will provide for you and give you a gracious release.(28) But if you should desire Allah and His Messenger and the home of the Hereafter, then indeed, Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a great reward.(29) O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality, for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and that for Allah is ever easy.(30) And whoever of you devoutly obeys Allah and His Messenger and does righteousness, We will give her her reward twice; and We have prepared for her a generous provision.(31) O wives of the Prophetyou are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah, then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.(32)( And) abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wants only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.(33) And remember what is recited in your houses of the verses of Allah and wisdom *. Indeed, allah is ever Subtle and Acquainted [with all things].(34)
Repeatedly the words O wives of the Prophet have been used clearly demonstrating that only the wives of the Prophet SAW are being addressed here. Ayah 32 starts with O wives of the Prophet and ayah 33 starts with the word And abide in your houses… the use of the word and at the beginning of that ayah shows a continuation of a prior conversation thus stating clearly that Allah is continously talking to the wives of the Prophet SAW.
Posted by Salman-
NOW IF WE LOOK AT THE REAL AHLUL-BAYT ONE THAT IS ACCEPTED BY BOTH SCHOLARS (SHIA AND SUNNI). HERE THE MAJORITY IS MALE AND THERE IS ONLY ONE FEMALE. SO SINCE THE MAJORITY IS MALE THEN A MASCULINE MAKES SENSE.
THERE YOU GO SIS I HAVE PROVEN THROUGH ARABIC GRAMMAR THAT INCLUDING THE WIVES OF THE PROPHET(SAWS) IN THIS AYAH WOULD MAKE THE AYAH INCORRECT.
NOW I HAVE MADE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT THE AHLUL BAYT(AS) DOES NOT INCLUDE I REPAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE WIVES OF THE PROPHET(SAWS).
PLEASE READ SAHIH MUSLIM, THE CHAPTER ENTITLED THE MERITS OF THE AHLUL BAYT OF THE PROPHET.
Reply:
Ayah 33 states:
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wants only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.(33)
Are you trying to tell me that Allah was asking Hazrat Ali, al-Hasan & al-Husayn to abide in their houses and not to display themselves? Why would Allah SWT order the men to stay inside the house and not to display themselves? Doesn’t make sense AT ALL.
Posted by Salman-
I just have one question. When the majority of ahl-al-sunnah scholars have accepted that the Ahlul bayt includes the five Muhammad(SAWS) ,Ali(AS), Fatima(AS),Hasan(AS), Husayn(AS) and not the wives then why do people keep constantly arguing that the ahlul bayt included the wives of the prophet?
Why don't you ask your local imam if you are so confident that the Ahlul bayt includes the wives of the Prophet(SAWS)? I mean can you be more knowledgeable then your own scholars?
Reply:
I have no idea which scholars you are refering to here? None of the muslim (Sunni or Wahabi, ahl e Sunnah or Barailvee) exclude the wives of the holy Prophet from ahl al-bayt. So quit trying to give a Fatwa none of the Sunni scholars have given. And oh yes by the way, we had the Khatam e Quran at our masjid today during Taraweehs, I asked three valid Imams of this state, all hafiz e Quran, Muftis and alims, one Arab, One Pakistani, One Irani (Sunni Muslim). Two of them born and bred in United States, and none of them reject the concept of wives being part of ahl al-bayt. It is highly recommended that next time before making such a sweeping generalization in the name of Muslim alims & Ummah that you double check on it.
Posted by Ramesha:
sister redmonds salaam,
I dont want to argue over same things again n again n again, all these things have been discussed in past. We dont believe in all the riwayats u came up with about imamas.
THEY R FABRICATION OF TAKHAT-e-SHAAM!!!
Reply:
If I was wrong about my info of your imams, and you have something valid to prove me wrong, by valid I mean something authentic in light of Quran and Sunnah only then bring it on woman! I’ll be more than happy to look into it. Obviously as there is nothing valid to justify your claim you couldn’t argue that point much. Let me get this straight, when you say you don’t believe in all the riwayats about the Imams stated in my previous post, it could mean two things:
1. Your books do not state such attributes of your imams,
OR
2. Your imams didn’t say those things to start with at all.
If it’s no. 1 you are implying then makes one wonder that if the piousness of these imams and the goodness of their hearts and their open heartedness in accepting the prestigious positions of the earlier sahabas and sahabiyaas is present in Islamic literature and history so clearly, why is it missing from the Shi’ah doctrines?
If it’s no 2. You are implying then are you saying your imams weren’t humble enough to admit to the goodness of the most beloved friends of Prophet SAW? And by the way, if Hazrat Ali didn’t like Hazrat Umar, then why did he give the hand of his’s and Hazrat Fatima RA’s daughter Khulthum to Hazrat Umar PBUH in marriage?
This info is not "FABRICATION OF TAKHAT-e-SHAAM!!!" as you have stated. The 12 imams from the descendants of Hazrat Ali PBUH you Shi’ahs claim to follow had nothing to do with Shi’ahism. They were sitting in Saudi Arabia. Shi’ahism was started by what Islam refers to as Kharjis of Iraq.
And if you still claim some absurdity, let me ask you, your imams (who were the descendants of Hazrat Ali {PBUH}) have taught you to hate and mudsling sahaba, sahabiyats and umhatul momineens? And hypothetically speaking if that is what they have taught you, look at the open heartedness of us Sunnis/Wahabis that we still compliment them (cuz we know they had nothing to with this idiocracy), whereas, Shi’ahs clearly land on the character of sahabas, sahabiyats and umhatul momineens. Let me tell you, the rank of an Imam is still much lower compared to that of a Prophet’s, sahaba’s, sahabiyat’s or umhatul momineen’s.
Prophet SAW said clearly in a very valid hadith, accepted by all:
Abu Huraira (PBUH) narrates, Jab ayah wa anzir asheera ta kal aqrabeen (26:214) nazil hoi to Rasul Allah SAW nay pukar lagayee, yeh pukaar aam bhee thee aur khaas bhee. Aap SAW nay kaha, "Ay jamaat e Quraysh! Apnay aap ko jahanum say bachao. Ay Bani Ka’ab! Apnay aap ko jahanum say bachao. Ay Muhammad ki baitee Fatima! Apnay aap ko jahanum say bacha kiyun kay main tum logoon ko Allah ki girift say bachanay ka kuch bhee ikhtiyaar naheen rakhta. Albatta tum logoon say nasb aur qarabat kay talluqaat hain jinhain main baqi aur tar o taza rakhnay ki koshish karoon ga." (Imam Muslim)
So this goes on to show that just by believing in the Prophet’s family or being part of it is not enough to save one in the life hereafter. And that raises another issue, you claim to follow the 12 imams whereas even Prophet SAW did not take a guarantee of his daughter, let alone her descendants? Who are you following?
Posted by Salman-:
1)The inforamtion that you present do you just cut an paste or do you actually understand what's being said
2)Are you sure the information that you present is considered authentic by sunni standards because sometimes what happens some people who are anti shiites come up with false notions to condemn shias. Such ppl operate hate websites and start spreading propaganda.
3)Wherever I say 'The ahl-sunnah consider this hadith authentic' or ' majority of sunnis belive in that' or' the scholars of the 4 sunni schools belive in this' it should be upto you to find this out. Don't beleive in hearsay or false notions
Reply:
LOL. Cut and paste? Ask me brother and I’ll give you the exact names of your books their volumes and page numbers regarding the info I have posted. Don’t tell me about scholars who try to spread hate. I assure you having been raised in US, I have not come across even 1 sunni imam who spreads hatred or abuse, or curses any Islamic figure. When I state something, I don’t throw darts in a dark room, I have studied both my religion and that which you claim to be yours in very much detail. Alhumdulillah I am a muslim by birth. And I am not following Islam because I was born into it or due to the fact that it was the religion of my ancestors also. I follow Islam because I have studied it and it plays strings of the heart. I can assure you with a 100% guarantee that had I not been born muslim (God Forbid!) I would have eventually became a muslim. That I can say with utmost surety.It's the religion which makes sense and doesn't contradict itself anywhere.
Posted by Salman-
You may not know this but there are a lot of people who want to destroy muslim unity and they operate hate websites and distrubute anti shiite literature. So the best thing is to goto websites operated by the scholars of 4 sunni schools or talk to these scholars.
Believe me the best way our enemies can destroy us is by dividing us, causing disputes between us.
Divide and Conquer: It is the oldest rule of War
Remember United we stand Divided we Fall
Reply:
Hmm….and who was the person who started the thread about Wahabis?
Who made the following statements:
"I only thought shias hated wahabbies."
"So I just want to know which one amongst you is shia and which one is sunnie"
If you don’t want to divide the Ummah why do you need to know the above? Don’t you sit here and try to go on and on about how you want the muslim Ummah united. Let me tell u one thing, look at this forum. Look around what’s going on, there is nothing other than Shi’ahs attacking the beliefs of Sunnis/Wahabis and yea when you are going to make nasty, out of this earth, rude comments about their religion, when you are going to twist and turn Quranic ayahs to suit your need you think they’ll sit back and let u make a mockery out of their religion? If you want to give dawa of Shi’ahism do it in person. Do you know there are 20,000 subscribers to this site. And uncountable non registered. What picture of Islam are u posting? All the topics that have been going on in the last couple of months have been nothing other than mockery of Sunni/Wahabi beliefs and name calling. Sud e ufsoos kay aap logoon ko Ramadan main bhee sharam naheen ayee. All the Shi’ah users from Humble, to A1Shah, to Shair 30 and others had nothing to contribute other than cursing and foul language. Make this forum a place where muslims can learn something, where something beneficial can be done for muslims worldwide and humanity universally. And if there is a shortage of intellect to discuss such immense issues on the part of certain people then step aside from the que and there will be others who hold the potential for doing something positive for the Ummah instead of this non sense bickering which has prolonged day after day after day.*