Ahmadis/Qadianis/Jews/Kafirs - who cares?

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

here is a female response for u nadia :flower1:

i think u r absolutely right. the reason i didnt respond before because it was just common sense to me.. i guess guyz lack some of it :smiley:

i am not perfect muslim myself ..so i have no right to tell other if they are wrong in what they believe in. its not for me to judge. Allah sab dilo ka haal jaanta hai. i believe in tolerence.
u can be gay or jew or budhist… i cud care less. what matters is that u r a nice person and respect others regardless of their background and believes.

42

I very rarely come to this side of GS.
Reason for that is because it’s always the same stories/threads/‘discussions’ . Everyone know’s what I am talking about.
Good to read a thread like this for a change.

Nadia, like Suroor said, what you wrote is common sense to me aswell.
Honestly, up to this day I don’t know zilch about Ahmadi’s or why they are called kafir’s/non-muslims. It’s simply cuz I don’t care who is called what. People are people are people . All this stuff just confuses me.
Why can’t we just look at a person from a ‘human’ perspective. I bet there would be a lot less hate in this world then.

:flower1:

(ok so I didn’t make much sense)

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I agree with you Nadia, but I think there is nothing wrong with exchanging views. I don't know much about different Islamic groups or other religions, but I've read many interesting discussions here too which help me understand more why people believe in certain things.
I like to hear arguments from two sides, as long as they don't bash each other, what often happens, when a person doesn't have a reply back, he/she starts bashing the other personally. If two or more people can have a normal discussion without such childish behaviour, there is nothing wrong, in fact you learn something.

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Saif-ul-Islam
The problem is, if Mullahs “understand the teaching of Islam”,BUT on the otherside, did AnHz Mohammad :saw: decided about any1 faith in his life time? I see no Hadith or Holy Quran´s vers which tells us about this.

For me Mullahs who take the power to decide about some1 faith act totaly against the teaching of Islam!!

45

Nadia Baji

Salamz

if i may plz suggest if not we have to care we muslims are the ppl who are going to seperate right form wrong,

as Holy Prophet PBUH said, My ummah will be best / better then the nations gone long before them because these people will do good , stop evil and will spread goodness around the world.

And beliveing in any other god then Allah Almighty and some other person instead of Holy Prophet PBUH is evil and bad thing.

We do care, atleast i do care becauses it is the duty of our creation to pray to Allah and surely we are Ashraf ra Ful Muklokat

46

Oh, so you care eh? I mean you always indulge in belittling other faiths/religions, And u think that is something to be proud of?
Hey, can you explain wht is this “right” and “wrong” you have mentioned above? I mean are u implying that we( muslims ) are the only right/good in this world, and everyone else happens to be wrong/evil?

Oh ok, so tell me how much of “good” have u done so far in your life ? I am sure not many come close to u when it comes to bashing other faiths, but guess what .. that doesn’t count as good. Following the scriptures without applying your own mind is gonna land you nowhere. If you really wanna follow Prophet Mohammad’s( PBUH ) teachings and you wanna be a good muslim then try to accept everyone with an open heart and open mind. Try being nice to everyone irrespective of their religion/race/caste etc and you will see this world in a whole new light. :slight_smile:

Well, again I say, try using your mind for a change. There are good and bad ppl in every religion. Being a non muslim doesn’t make a person evil. Ignorance and prejudice like that of yours sure creates evil though.

Lastly, I wud like to repeat myself, Please use your mind and try to embrace this world with an open heart, I am sure u won’t be disappointed. :flower2:

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Re: Ahmadis/Qadianis/Jews/Kafirs - who cares?

Miss Nadia :slight_smile:

You are absolutely right about this because the kind of situation in muslims are today, they don’t have any right to call any other person kafir.

I personally like my self hate qadiyanis, but I would not prefer to do any thing against them you know why?

To answer this, we should study the time of when our prophet started preaching islam and the time when he migrated to medina.

In Mecca Muslims suffered hardships and were helpless, but they never did any thing to any non muslim because they knew they were weak and if they started to fight others then their power will be threatened.

It wasn’t later until when muslims really estbalished themselves in medina in terms of of politicaly, socially, and economically, they started fighting with the people of mecca.

And what sort of state in muslims right now is really resemble the time of pre Islam area. Ignorance is spread every where, vulgarity every where, alcoholism is spread every, and most importantly injustice around the world. Women are being oppressed and richer is getting richer and poorer is getting poorer.

Therefore, until we all muslims can’t overcome wtih these problems we should not even try to go near and copy the time of medina where the first islamic state was established.

And only an islamic state has the right to declare such fatwas if i am correct. And hey you never know, if we can live the meccan life and use tolerance then it is quite possible when those qadiyanis and other islamc wanna be factions will realize the true essence of islam and will come to real Islam.

Because remeber Islam was never spread by force, instead it was spread through love, peace and harmony.

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[quote]
Original from Nadia_H

Ahmadis/Qadianis/Jews/Kafirs - who cares?
[/quote]

Actually, our sunni islam does care and very seriously and its beliefs towards those you identify is geared on this one single verse of quran:

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Qur'an 3:85]

Every other verse in Quran that preaches tolerance have been ABROGATED by this one verse[3:85] - according to our sunni bro & sis, even worse by our wahabi masters.

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Original from Nadia_H

Ahmadis/Qadianis/Jews/Kafirs - who cares?

Origionally posted by hafeed123

Actually, our sunni islam does care and very seriously and its beliefs towards those you identify is geared on this one single verse of quran:

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Qur'an 3:85]

Every other verse in Quran that preaches tolerance have been ABROGATED by this one verse[3:85] - according to our sunni bro & sis, even worse by our wahabi masters.

thank u hafeez for sharing my point of view i mean we are muslims, and a true muslim is on the right path as sais in quran and sunnah.

posted by chadbeti

Well, again I say, try using your mind for a change. There are good and bad ppl in every religion. Being a non muslim doesn't make a person evil. Ignorance and prejudice like that of yours sure creates evil though.

Lastly, I wud like to repeat myself, Please use your mind and try to embrace this world with an open heart, I am sure u won't be disappointed.

well i m sorry if i ws rude towrds any body and i didnt even say the ppl in the religion are evil, the religio actually its self is evil and is created by some low esteem ppl inorder to drive ppl to hell

And by the quote:

Originally posted by ahmadarsalan:

if i may plz suggest if not we have to care we muslims are the ppl who are going to seperate right form wrong,

posted byChandbeti

Oh, so you care eh? I mean you always indulge in belittling other faiths/religions, And u think that is something to be proud of?
Hey, can you explain wht is this "right" and "wrong" you have mentioned above? I mean are u implying that we( muslims ) are the only right/good in this world, and everyone else happens to be wrong/evil?

if u mean by my followin Islamic faith. well yes i am dam proud of it.And othe than readin gossip on the net and simply commenting over your head about something u dont understand the true meanings of is no Good u can simplyby simply readin qurani u can simply find the difference of this the evil path of the wrong dowers and ritious path islam which me along with millions of othe Muslims follow. And by the way Islam is not a a religion of a hatered its a religion of peace and love.

as Origionally posted ny hafeez123

Every other verse in Quran that preaches tolerance have been ABROGATED by this one verse[3:85] - according to our sunni bro & sis, even worse by our wahabi masters.

Origionally posted by Nadia. H
Why are we so seemingly concerned about other peoples' belief systems - to each individual, their own religious beliefs are as precious and cherished as we hold ours. To devout Jews, their beliefs are as dear as ours are to us. What gives? Why won't we learn to live and let live? Surely we have SOOO many other aspects of our lives to worry about - instead of worrying about whom to designate as the next "Kafir", why don't we declare jihad on our own ignorance? Why don't we declare jihad on poverty? Why don't we worry about global issues that affect millions of innocent individuals around the world instead of worrying about categorizing each other as "Ahmadi", "Qadiani", "Shia", blah blah blah.

We have already been catograzied as two kind of ppl by Allah Almighty Muslims and not muslims.u nor any bdy else can change it.As one party will dine in hell and the other in hevan.

We dont declare any othe perosn as a Kafar those who dont believe in islam have a right to be call that. If u dont think so i nor other muslims muslims care, its is some that Holy Prophet PBUH started callin them and surely u are not tryin to say that He is wrong or the religion He preached is wrong

why don't we declare jihad on our own ignorance actually ther is not only one kind of Jahad there are many forms of it the two main one are Jahad nit Nafas and the normal jahad

And the Holy Prophet PBUH him self said Jahad bil Nafas Jahad with ur own self is much more important than the normal jahad ie fighting wiht enemy and is much more difficult to conduct, in which we now adays muslims sre lacking in.

Plz for hevan sakes dont look at thimgs from one point of view, its a do or die world, its eithers them or us,if we dont stand united and grip the rope of islam and sunnah well fall and will fall bad And our unity is next to nill and is even fallin. Every day in school and in the world around me i hear ppl calling muslims Terroristis and sure side bommers, trust me

posted by Chandbeti

Oh ok, so tell me how much of "good" have u done so far in your life ? I am sure not many come close to u when it comes to bashing other faiths

if things go on like this no body will be comin close to u aswell. Take cre and try and understanding islam in a bit more depth

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadarsalan: *

thank u hafeez for sharing my point of view i mean we are muslims, and a true muslim is on the right path as sais in quran and sunnah.

[/QUOTE]

Dear br ahmadarshan,

I am glad you saw some good in my point.

However, I do not agree that since we follow the sunna as authored by Bukhari & others makes us -necessarily, on the Right Path.

We need to QUESTION exactly what we follow & believe and why is there so much ignorance & hatred in us. And, only then can we achieve ENLIGHTENMENT and Right Path.

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you guys opened my eyes......yeah who are sunniz to call others non-muslims.....Islam is a univeral religion...it should be open for everyone and EVERYTHING......it should allow all kinds of new concepts and new prophets and what not......and hence they are Muslims....better than the ones who are sticking with the 1400 year old guidelines and who do not get along with new challenges in the world and the new prophets.

Then if a person who says...hazrat maseeh maood George Bush freed up the Muslims of Iraq from a tyrant....are better muslims than any of us. They can bring references from Quran and Hadith to support their claim and twist them in whichever way looks good to accept this THE FACT. I bet you will find all the qualities of Promised Messiah in Hazrat George Bush.

But the problem is

Sunniz will have problem with Bush...they have very strict critaria to validate his maseehat.
Christians will most likely accept him. Vatican will issue a fatwa of kufr for Bush.
Jews will be laughing their lungs out....and will enjoy this hip hop as usual.
Shiaz will also have problem...since 12th Imam was speaking Arabic when he went into the cave.....and this American accent is nowhere close to it.
Who knows....Agha Khan claims that he is the twin brother of this messiah.
Ahmediz will wait to see how big is the Offer from this new 'Royal' power. If the deal is same or better than what Mirza had....then yeah....another messiah of 21st century....what the heck. According to them those who do not believe in both Mirza and Bush will be Kaafir...or in Mirza's lingo.....children of prostetutes.

In short.......George Bush will become the BIGGEST MUSLIM.....and Mullah will be proven to be wrong once again. George Bush can later claim to be prophet of Allah and try to enter in Hijaz.

ISLAM SHOULD BE FREE FOR EVEYONE TO COME AND PLAY WITH IT.

P.S: Sure Allah has given the toughest job to the Muslims. karo tou bura na karo tou bura...

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hafeez123: *

Dear br ahmadarshan,

I am glad you saw some good in my point.

However, I do not agree that since we follow the sunna as authored by Bukhari & others makes us -necessarily, on the Right Path.

We need to QUESTION exactly what we follow & believe and why is there so much ignorance & hatred in us. And, only then can we achieve ENLIGHTENMENT and Right Path.
[/QUOTE]

agreed with hafeez... i think people need to read and understand before following anything..

smooth_guy... u put a smile to my face.... 'Hazrat Bush' hehehe

53

:rotfl:

You sure have a way of making your point!

54

[QUOTE]
Ahmediz will wait to see how big is the Offer from this new 'Royal' power. If the deal is same or better than what Mirza had....then yeah....another messiah of 21st century....what the heck. According to them those who do not believe in both Mirza and Bush will be Kaafir...or in Mirza's lingo.....children of prostetutes
[/QUOTE]

Hi Allah marjawwan goorh kha ke.... Mr Smooth guy. Apka tu ye haal hey "Naach na jaane angun Tairha"

Have ever heard in any news that The royal Family Gave such amount of MONEY to Ahmadis or Qadiyanis or Mirzaiees...

But lemme tell you what i hear. Few days back Musharef came to USA. THe head line of Washington Post was. "President of Pakistan Mushraf visited USA and Bush aproved the aid for Pakistan" lemme tell you what else i hear. Usa giving aid to Different Muslim countires too. But i never heard Royal Family giving money to Ahmadis.

Ahmadiyyat is the only organization that runs it self WHO DO NOT NEED help of any kind from any Super Power.....

Oh haan thats why aplogon ke seeeno mey jalen hoti hey :). Kion ke we are sooooooo respected and soooooo welcomed in each and every country.

55

sure sure.......you can say whatever you wanna say....

The entire Muslim Ummah knows....how the Mirza and Qadiyani Movement was supported and protected by Britishers. Don't drag me into this debate again. I can show you Mirza praising Royal family and British government. Why top personal of this movement fleed to England? Why not Japan, China, France, Russia or any other non-British influencial countries? because only because.....British government is the one who welcomes all the chor uchakkay badmaash of the Muslim countires...all the people who are destructive mind and have caused serious demages to the Ummah and Islam. Mirza Tahir, Altaf Hussain, Benazir, Salman Rushdi.....................the list goes on and on.

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British Government & the Promised Messiah (Part I):

During the time of the Promised Messiah al-mahdi, some people continuously reported to the British Government that he was a dangerous person, even more dangerous than the Sudanese Mahdi. For instance, Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Sahib of Batala (an arch enemy of the promised messiah) wrote concerning him:

His deception is proved by the fact that in his heart he considers it lawful to put an end to the authority of a non-Muslim government and to plunder its belongings... Therefore, it would not be proper on the part of the Government to rely on him and it would be necessary to beware of him, otherwise such harm might be suffered at the hands of this Mahdi of Qadian as was experienced at the hands of the Sudanese Mahdi. (Ishaatus Sunnah, Vol. VI, 1893)

To counter this propaganda, he had to state time after time in books that his community was loyal to the British Government.

Regarding the charge that he flattered the British, attention might be drawn to some of his writings. For instance, Promised Messiah says:

Some ignorant people have raised the objection, among them the Editor of Al-Manar, that as I live in a country ruled by the British, I, therefore, forbid Jihad. These stupid ones do not consider that if I had wished to please the Government with false declarations, why should I have affirmed repeatedly that Jesus, son of Mary, was delivered from the cross and died a natural death in Srinagar and that he was neither God, nor Son of God. Would not such of the British who are devoted to their religion be disgusted by this affirmation of mine? Then attend to this, ye stupid ones, that I offer no flattery to this Government. The truth is that according to the Holy Quran, it is forbidden to go to war against a government which does not interfere in any way with Islam or its practice, nor uses force against us in order to promote its own religion. (Kishti Nuh, p.68)

He states further:

This Government safeguards the lives and the properties of the Muslims and provides them with security against the attack of every wrongdoer... I have not embarked upon this enterprise out of any fear of Government or in the hope of any reward from it. All I have done is in accordance with the divine command and the command of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. (Nurul Haq, Part I, p.30)

He also states:

I have never desired that I should mention my continuous services to government officials, for I consider it my duty to declare the truth, not out of my desire for any return or award. (Tableegh Risalat, Vol. VII, p. 10)

Another statement of his is:

I do not flatter the Government as some ignorant ones imagine because I desire a return from the Government. On the contrary, I consider it just and a duty on account of my faith to express gratitude to the Government. (Tableegh Risalat, Vol. X, p.123)

Thus, whenever he praised the British, it was not out of flattery but was out of obedience to the direction of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, that he who is not grateful to man is not grateful to Allah. To call a justice-loving government a just government is an Islamic quality and is not open to objection.

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British Government & the Promised Messiah (Part II):

It is surprising that when the Promised Messiah, peace be on him, pointed out some of the good qualities of the British he was charged with flattering them, but when numberless Muslim divines, both those who were his contemporaries and those who came after him, praised the British in exaggerated terms, no one raised a voice against it. Is that Islamic justice?

We set out below, by way of illustration, some of the declarations of Muslim divines and leaders who described the British Government as a divine blessing.

(i) Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Sahib of Batala, who was one of the divines and leaders of the Ahle Hadees, wrote:

It is not permissible for Muslim subjects to fight, or to help with men and money those who fight, against a government, whether Christian, or Jewish, or of some other faith, under whom the Muslims carry out their religious duties and obligations freely. For the Muslims of India it is forbidden to oppose or rebel against the British Government. (Ishaatus Sunnah, Vol. VI, No. 10)

He has also stated:

Brethren, this is not the time of the sword; at this time it has become necessary to use the pen in place of the sword. (Ishaatus Sunnah, Vol. VI, No.12)

(ii) Syed Ali-al-Hairi Sahib, the well-known Shia mujtahid, has stated:

We take pride in being subject to a Government under which justice and religious freedom are the law, the equal of which is not to be found in any other government of the world. Therefore, I declare that in return for this beneficence every Shia should be grateful to the British Government with a sincere heart and appreciate its beneficence. (Mauiza Tahreef Quran, April 1923)

(iii) Hazrat Syed Sahib Brelvi declared:

Our true purpose is the propagation of the Unity of God and the revival of the practice of the Chiefs of the Prophets, and that we carry out without hindrance in this country. Then why should we fight the British Government and shed the blood of both sides contrary to the principles of our religion. (Biography of Hazrat Syed Ahmed by Maulana Muhammad Jaafar Thanesar)

(iv) An-Nadwah, the organ of the Nadwatul Ulama, wrote:

The true purpose of this institute of learning is to produce clear-minded divines and it is the duty of such divines that they should be familiar with the blessings of the Government and should propagate loyalty to the Government in the country. (An-Nadwah, Vol. V, July 1908)

Again, the same organ wrote:

One day was observed as a holiday in celebration of the fifty years' Jubilee of the British Government and a telegram of felicitations was dispatched on behalf of the Nadwah to His Excellency the Governor-General. (An-Nadwah, November, 1908)

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Mr. Smooth_Guy,

Should we also label Hazrat Syed Ahmad Shahid as a British Agent?

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Smooth yar, What I don't understand about Ahmadis is that on one side **they go head over heels to prove that Jesus (as) is dead, who notably is considered part of the holy trinity by Christians all over the world, including British, so it's like telling the British your god is dead. Also, Mirza Sahib wrote half the books answering allegations from Christian missionaries against Islam & preaching towards Christians and did you also know that Christian Missionaries were part of the various trails against Mirza Sahib? And his followers were the first Muslim missionaries to ever come to America, started the first mosque in England, have the most converts among the Christian nations of Africa ... but **on the other hand, they are British Agents! Wow .. what double crossers. Toba toba

On a serious note, if you ever get a chance to actually read the whole book of Mirza Sahib, I suggest you start with Government Angrezi Aur Jihad - (The British Government and Jihad)!

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After reading all the highly impressive and persuasive arguments, I am convinced that Ahmadis are Kafir, British slaves, non-believers and deserve to be taken care of. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was on the British payroll, and I am so mad that he didn’t leave any of the money for his devout followers like myself, who has struggled most of his life to provide a basic humble meal for his family. Where's all the money? Show me the money.

Who decides if being Kafir is a bad thing or a good thing?