Ahmadi-Thread

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

either, one can be Ahmadi or he/she can be muslim....but they CAN NOT be both!
no one is interested in you belief. i am here to talk about ahmedism which try to show opposite picture of Islam, but still claim to be part of Islam.

[QUOTE]
So there can be 72 sects and all is ok, right? There is only this one sect who had never to do anything with violence like our Prophet (saw) never had and WOULD NEVER EVER command, they are not Muslims. What a contradiciton. Don't you realize that you are walking on way full of thorns?
[/QUOTE]

i dont believe on sects. i only believe on ALLAH SWT, and Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
i dont blindly follow other alims or imam as they are not perfect themselves. what i do is is i pray to ALLAH SWT to show me right path...n i have direct connection with ALLAH SWT :)

i find so many contradicting actions in my fellow muslim brothers and sisters and i also discuss the same way i am discussing here.

at the time of Prophet Muhammad PBUH there was no sect, period. only one ALLAH SWT was/is considered the Sovereign (and he SWT is ), and Prophet Muhammad PBUH is his Last Messenger.

[QUOTE]
Have you seen the videos of the Bengali Riots? You would like if that it happens to you? You would love it when someone interferes in your life with violence and forces you to leave your belief, otherwise they kill you! You would love it when 5 men struck you 5 times, right? :( So contradiciting. OMG.
[/QUOTE]

nor i am the one behind those riots, neither i am part of minority....so it is stupid of u bring in the scenario which is not related to me in any way.

...but if so many ppl are questioning ur belief then it is good to review it and look in to every aspect, and dont take things for granted.

no one is perfect!

[QUOTE]
Please leave this topic as you are causing trouble and headaches instead of participating and laying down your 'belief'
[/QUOTE]

i no where asked u to leave you faith-belief so why are u instructing me to do what i wana know.

or u dont trust the purity of ur belief?

42

Peace FrozenFire

Here is the hadith again for your reference:

Amr bin Shimr narrates from Jabir who told him that Muhammad bin Ali said that for our Mehdi, two signs are given which never occurred in the past from the creation of the heavens and the earth. One is that a lunar eclipse will occur on the first night of Ramadan and the second sign is that a solar eclipse will occur in the middle of Ramadan and these signs had never happened from the creation of the heavens and the earth (Dar Qutni).

You cannot overturn the direct nature of this hadith despite the linguistics gymnastics you have given above. This is also a weak hadith in addition the interpretation you have given is convoluted.

The clear clause of this hadith is emphasising that the occurrence of the eclipses will be peculiar in themselves no emphasis is given to the claimant or that being a necessary element in the peculiarity of the said phenomenon. This hadith is clearly asserting that the said signs have never occurred. And as you rightly state the order has never occurred. To make the hadith fit someone amongst you has given a different meaning to first and middle of Ramadan and when proven that your different meaning falsifies the generality of the claim in that it has occurred before then you have altered the sign to include the claimant of messiah in with the sign that such a thing is a sign.

1) the hadith is weak and cannot be relied upon by itself

2) Signs should be independent from the claimant or else they are not signs

3) It cannot be considered miraculous since the basic phenomenon occurs all the time ignoring the added twist of there having to be a claimant to fulfil the prophecy

4) the hadith does not mention the necessity of the claimant in the signs themselves. Read bold parts of the hadith to see what the signs actually supposed to be.

No more from me on this topic

43

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

@sabi
You're declared as non-muslim ....

will you tell me who say that ?? aalim?? hahhahaha so funny
u are calling Zia Ul Haq and Bhutto aalim...hahahaha aise aalim aur a jayen to ho gaya begha gharak...
for your knowlage...humain is se koi farak nahi padta...jitne bhi insan aur aalim a kar humain non -muslim declere kar dain..finaly humain Allah ko jawab dena hai not your aalims...
na hi mere lye un alimon ki kahi hui batain Hadees ka darja rakhti hain..
ap log ek ya do insanon ke kehne pe ye man lete ho..lekin Hadees ke hawale se aur Allah ke hawale se nahi sochte.

yahan par musalman kaun hai? mai ab apke samne teen hadeesain pesh kar rahi hun....aur ap mujhe apne maulviyon ki batain na sunaen,balke hamare Nabi Hazrat Muhammas (SAW) ki ahadees ka hawala de kar bat karain...jis me kahin nahi kaha gaya ke ek insan jo khud ko musleman keh raha ho use non -muslim qarar do---Ap logon ke Dillon se Allah ka khauf khatam ho chuka hai tabhi itni badi badi batain keh jate hain..
Shahid ap ye bhi bhool jate hain.ke Allah ke ilawah koi bhi ye Faisla nahi kar sakta ke kaun sacha muslim hai aur kaun nahi..!

1)jabb madina me mardum shumari hone lagi to anhazrat Mohammad (SAWS) ne kaha ke usse muslim shumaar karo jo khud ko muslim kahe /bukhari,kitab ul jahad.baab kitabaul imamatun naas )

2)jo humari tarah namaz parhta hai,aur humare Qible ko apna Qibla kehta hai,aur humara hamara zabeeha khata ho wo ek musalman hai.Uski Hifazat Allah aur uske Rasool ki zimmedari hai,aur ap log apni zimmedari nibhana (bukhari,kitabus salat.baab fazl istaqbaal al qibla )

Hazrat Usama bin zaid (RA) ke Hath ne jab ek mukhalif qible se ek aadmi ko qatal kiya ,jabke wo lailaha illallah parh chuke tha.Jab Usama (RA) ne is bat ka zikar Anhazrat (saw) se kiya ,to Anhazrat (saw) bohat udaas hue,aur unhon is bat ki muzammar ki ke unhon ne ye qatal kyun kiya aur wo unse naraz hue,ke kya tumne uska Dil cheer ke dekha tha?(muslim, kitabul imaan, baab tehreem qatl al kafir bada an qala la ilaha illallah)

Animal characters in stories
44

I'm amazed. Who is tricking here whom psyah brother? What do you want to hear from us exactly? That we are non-muslims and Imam Mahdi (AS) didn't come? Who says signs should be independent from the claimant or else they are not signs? Is there your belief? First you mention the hadith and then say it's weak!? Why mentioning it at all then?

zobia, which opposite picture are you talking about? Don't call anyone who speaks the Kalima, prays 5 times, recites the Qur'an and pays the Zakat Non-Muslim! How can you consider yourself Muslim when Muhammad (saw) said: **'Don't call your fellow Muslim-Brother Non-Muslim'

Are you really following our Rasool (saw)? Take your time and question yourself before questioning anynone elses belief here, alright!!!!?

I know alot of people who are interested in me, my belief. Please don't say something you don't know about. Thank You. Speak for yourself when you say "No one is interested in you". Don't generalize please.

You have direct contact to Allah? Does he speak to you? Does he give you signs?
If that is true, he should've spoken and given me signs years ago...
**

45

i call entire ahmadi community non-muslim. if you happen to be part of it then please clarify if you dont believe on Prophet Muhammad being the Last Messenger and Prophet of ALLAH SWT, then why stressing to be a part of Islam.

just stick with Ahmedism * n i wont gonna care about it. :)

ps. there is a difference between being non-muslim and Kaafir. e.g. there are many non-muslim who dont do shirk...but only ALLAH SWT know who gets what.*

46

**ONCE AGAIN FOR YOUR EYES!!!

HAZRAT MUHAMMD MUSTAFA (SAW) said: ‘DON’T CALL YOUR FELLOW MUSLIMS-BROTHER NON-MUSLIM’

WHO IS DOING SHIRK? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT SHIRK IS? HAHAHAHAHA OMG. WHAT IS THAT NOW? :smiley: :smack:

HE IS THE LAST PROPHET OF ALLAH, THE LAST LAW-BEARING PROPHET, THE SEAL OF THE PROPHETS. IF YOU JUST WANT TO STICK WHY PARTICIPATING THEN?

A DISCUSSION IS HELD TO FIND SOLUTIONS, NOT TO NAIL THE SAME ISSUE AGAIN AND AGAIN.

47

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

zobia..we are a part of islam...so we have the Rights. to call as Muslim...if any shia aur suni aur wahabi have problem with this than its your own problem ....not owers...
I beleave striktly on Allah,and on Allah´s Rasool,Allah ´s book Allah´s Farishte..and i beleave that Hazrat Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet from Allah...
Nowbody will come again with any other shairiyat and with an other book.Islam is complete with Hazrat Muhammad (saw)...
you guys dont understand this word..Khatmenabuat..that s means no more prophet will come with a book.Quran-e-pak is Allahs last book..!

48

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

^

and they will never. Bring even more ridiculous stories to support their views. I will post an answer to the "Finality Of Prophethood" in the next hours. If they still don't get it, count them lost and **Close this Thread.

The Sun of Islam will truly rise in the West, not in the East > where it should have.
**

49

lol...the thing is u still believe that u are Muslim.
o bhai app ka faith is tangent to what Islam teaches us.

so either u r non-muslim or either i am. One is Forsure!

ps. i do understand your position. i mean its easy for me to call u non-muslim since i am born in Sunni school of thought (well now i am changed a lot), where as u. and then ppl start bashing u for being a part of minority.

all i can say is leave this sect thingee n just believe on ALLAH SWT n Prophet Muhammad PBUH as a last Messenger.

why i am stressing on him (PBUH) being the Last Messenger is because Islam is like a sea. there is so much to learn, consume, absorb in it.
where as Alims, Ulema, Mufti, peer, waghera waghera only confuse it further.

extract good part of what they teach u (jis say app khud or app koe dosera Insaan ko takleef na ho)

or ALLAH SWT her jagha hain....may be he is forcing me to respond u here in the manner. :)

zaraa pahchaaniye to sahii-1
50

if u believe on Allah´s Rasool,Allah ´s book Allah´s Farishte..and i beleave that Hazrat Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet [and Messenger] of Allah SWT...then stick with Islam

what a point to call ur self Ahmedi then?

ps. i dont call my self shia-sunni waghera wahgera.

51

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

what did you smoke? I wanna smoke that 2!

See there is the twist. You are born in the Sunni School of Thought so it's easy for you to call me Non-Muslim. So who is right when it comes to calling a Muslim Brother Non-Muslim, Muhammad (saw) our Rasool or your Sunni School Of Thought?

To me it SIMPLY means that you follow your *SUNNI SCHOOL OF THOUGHTS WITH A BIT OF MODIFYING HERE AND THERE AND NOT OUR RASOOL (SAW). *

52

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

i was born in one (its been ages since i come to this earth) ...but with research i find out several flaws in sunnis as well (not in the religion, Islam).

there are many who do shirk...n i tell them right away.

Born in Muslim house, doesnt mean we all directly go to Jannah. its on our action, which will grant us one.

ps. i am calling non-muslim, non-muslim.
ps2. Prophet Muhammad PBUH nay aur bhi bhut kuch kaha hai...us per bhi ghoor-o-fiker ker lain app.

53

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

^

what, what point? Have the moderators given you the golden job to shut this thread by posting crap? I'm sorry to say, but you're making no sense. Ok, I'm not a Muslim. I'm a Kafir, pleased? Would you please leave this Topic now!

free courses offered by Major US universities
54

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

thank you for at last admitting the reality. please, from now on dont connect yourself with Islam in any positive way.

55

Did you really think I do? :D you joker. I was connected, am connected and will be connected to Islam in a positive way. For the last sentence, you will pay on the judegment Day.

56

This might be my last post here as there is no point repeating the same issue over and over.

The main difference between an ahmadi muslim and other sects of muslim is some minor beliefs that differ. And these different beliefs should not be held responsible for Ahmadis to be declared non-muslim in any way.

  • difference in belief of Jesus ... ( alive or dead )
  • acceptance of Imam Mehdi .. ( which other muslims believe will come too ..so accepting the one who claimed to be one shouldnt be a problem )
  • Different point of view on khatam e naboowat.

beliefs that ahmadi share with the rest of muslim umma

  • Tauheed
  • Namaaz 5 times, in the direction of khaana ka'aba
  • Hajj ( though it isnt allowed for us, but its every ahmadi muslims's dream just like any other muslim to perform hajj atleast once in their lifetime.)
  • Zakat
  • Fast
  • Belief in angels
  • Belief in all messengers (including beloved prophet Muhammad pbuh)
  • Belief in all of the Allah's book. And Quran being the last words of Allah for mankind
  • Belief in Ahadith
  • Belief in the day of Judgement.

You decide , if someone does all the above , but just differentiate some beliefs (such as believing Jesus AS as dead , accepting Imam Mehdi )..from other Muslims.. will you really take him out of the pale of Islam?..

nuff said !

ps: psyah , you wrote the hadith in the same manner i wrote, but the interpretation you are doing differs. I didnt hear anything from you about the usage of the term Qamar and not Hilal in that hadith. And beside, whichever prophecy has been fulfilled , you then come and say that hadith is weak. well done buddy.. carry on..

im out. Enough of this already.

Animal characters in stories
57

Don’t close it yet. As soon as I wake I post the promised Article. Thank You :flower1:

58

I an ahmadi hereby declare myself that im not amongst the muslim umma that preach hatred. I would rather like to be called qadiyani or whichever term u wanna refer me as. I believe calling myself Muslim is not going to do any favour to me if i do not act like one. Calling myself Muslim in front of non-believers will be like shame, knowing what the state of Islam is in the hands of Mullahism. Call me Ahmadi, call me Qadiani.. etc. My amaal and intentions for the sake of humanity, the country i reside in , and most importantly the true and sincere intentions that i have for anyone who speaks kalima..will speak out loud to the world that I m Muslim by heart. I refuse to accept Islam the one that moulvi today is preaching. My heart and my tongue will never stop praising Allah and His sweet Prophet SAW.
Im desperately waiting for my death so i could have a glimpse of my beloved Prophet Muhammad (May Allah be please with Him).

Anything else you would like me to say that will get me out of the pale of Islam that you believe in ?.. if anything i missed please let me know and ill be happy to take another oath on that. But never ever ask me say that i dont believe Prophet Muhammad to be the seal of Prophet, because I really believe that.

enough said !

Like the sound of silence calling,
59

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

You know what is so typical? People blame the Ulema, call them this and that. But do they even know without their(Ulema) sacrifices, you wouldn't been born in a Musilm household, more like a hindu household. Yet, we foolishly call these great men "JAHIL" "UNPAR" "ILLITERATE" "BACKWARD" "CORRUPT"... and on and on... I lose all respect for those who call scholars such names.

*"Knowledge of Islam will be taken away while ignorance will increase. This removal of knowledge will be because old scholars will die and fewer and fewer new scholars will replace them. The leaders of the Muslims will be chosen from ignorant people, and they will rule according to their whims." *

Today we consider people who study deen for the sake of Allah as JAHIL "oh why they studying Islam, what will they do blah blah blah they will only confuse us blah blah blah" , this is the reason why knowledge is being taken away.
May Allah guide us all to the straight path.

Salam!

60

Calm down brother, no one is blaming the Ulema. You can call it Ulema at the time of our Prophet (saw), but after that, different opionions, views destroyed the caliphat and the Ulema and it was foretold that one Man will come to unite the Muslim Ulema under one banner again. He did, who wants to join them is joining, who doesn't want to join he **SIMPLY **doesn't.

You wrote something very true in the bold statement. Didn't this happen, isn't this happening?