Ahmadi-Thread

[Zero_one]

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

So Folks anyone up here Who can prove from the Holy Qur'an that Jesus AS is alive come forward and put up reference from the Holy Qur'an Jazak'Allah

I've put enough evidence from the Holy Qur'an clearly stating that Jesus AS is Dead as are other prophets before. Please read carefully and kindly read also the Arabic in the copy of the Holy Qur'an

**3:54 Behold! Allah Said: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me and I shall clear you of those who reject Faith, and I am going to make those who follow you above those who reject Faith - until the day of Awakening. Then towards Me is your return, so that I shall decide among you as to in which you used to differ.

4:157 And (because of) their saying: "Surely we have killed the Masih, - ‘Isa, son of Mar-yam" the Rasul of Allah, and they could not murder him, nor could they kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to resemble to them. And verily those who differ regarding him are certainly in a doubt about him. They have no knowledge about it but are merely following a guess; and they could not kill him for certain;

4:158 On the contrary, Allah exalted him towards Himself. And Allah is Exalted in Power, most Wise.

…WA ma qataluhu yaqinan (157). Bal rafa’ahu-llahu ilaihi …..(158)

They key words here are : Ya Isa, inni mutawaffika wa rafi’uka ilaiya
Meaning: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me….."

If Jesus(pbuh) died a natural death, it is still valid that the Jews could not (a) murder him or (b) kill him by crucifixion.

5:75 The Messiah, son of Maryam, was none but a Rasul, surely the Rasuls have passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman and they both used to take food…

Among other things, this verse tells two things:
(1) Jesus(pbuh) was only a Rasul,
(2) Rasuls before him have passed away.

3:143 Muhammad is no more than a Rasul, surely the Rasuls before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?…

Among other things, this verse tells two things:
(1) Muhammad(pbuh) was only a Rasul,
(2) Rasuls before him have passed away.

21:7 We did not send before you (O Muhammad(pbuh)) any but man to whom We sent revelations; therefore you ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know
21:8 And We did not give them bodies not taking food and neither are they abiding

Among other things, the important findings from these verses are:
(1) All Rasuls were human beings
(2) Their mortal bodies sustained on food
(3) They are all dead

25:20 And We did not send before you any the Rasuls, but they surely ate food and walked through the street.

5:116 And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Isa, son of Maryam was it you who said to the people (-- the Christians, especially the Roman Catholic) "Take me and my mother for two deities besides Allah?" He will say: "Glory to be to You! It is not fit for me to say what is not right for me (to utter). If I had said that, You would then have known it indeed. You know what is in my mind, while I do not know what is in Your mind. Surely you are the great Knower of hidden matter

5:117 "I did not say to them anything except about what You had ordered me, namely, "serve Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb" and I was witness over them so long as I was with them, but when you caused me to die (wafat), You were Watcher over them. And You are a Witness over all things

The key word here is ‘wafat’ - death. Falamma tawaffai tani - that is, ‘but when you caused me to die.’

Great Prophets like Muhammad(pbuh) are exalted.
43:32 …And We have raised some of them above others in rank. (…WA rafa’ na…)
94:4 And We have exalted for you your mention (…WA rafa’ NA…)

Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah.
6:84 ….We exalt in degrees whom We please (…narfa’u darazaa…)

Prophet Idris(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah.
19:57 And We raised him to an elevated state. (WA rafa’naa hu…)

Righteous servants of Allah are raised in degrees.
6:166 …and He raises some of you above the others in degrees…. (…WA rafa’ aa
ba’dakum…)
7:176 And had We wished We would invariably exalted him; …. (…rafa’naa hu….)

56:3 It will abase it will exalt (…rafi’aah…)

All good deeds are raised towards Allah.
35:10 …all pure speech and all good deed, --He exalts it…. (…yarfa’uhu. …)

House of pious Muslims are raised high by Allah.
24:36 in (certain) houses which Allah has permitted to be raised up… (…an turfa’a WA yuzkara…)

67:3 Who has created the seven heavens in harmony. You can not see in the creation of the Rahman any inconsistency. Then turn again the gaze. Do you see any crack?

67:4 And then turn again the search once more, the eyesight will return to you defeated, while it is fatigued

17:77 … And you will not find any change in Our course.

30:30 … there is no altering in the creation of Allah

33:62 … and you will not find any alteration in the course of Allah.

35:43 … But you will never find any change in the course of Allah and you will never find any shifting in the course of Allah.

48:23 the law of Allah which has been in operation from before, and you will never find any change in the course of Allah.

16:70 And Allah creates you, then He causes you to die; and among you someone is caused to return to the worst of the age, resulting in his not knowing anything after knowledge. Allah is truly all Knowing, most Capable.

22:5 … And of you is one who is caused to die, and among you is one who is turned back to the worst part of life until he does not know anything after having
known...

36:68 And whomsoever We lengthen life, We reverse him in constitution

4:82 Do they not then ponder over Quran? And had it been from anyone except Allah, they would surely have found therein a great deal of discrepancy.

86:13-14 Verily this (- the Qur-an) is a conclusive discourse, and it is not a thing of joke.**

[hareem01]

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

Everything that doesn't make sense in ahmaddiyat is metaphorical, that means 99% things are metaphorical.

[hareem01]

@Zero_one

I've put enough evidence from the Holy Qur'an clearly stating that Jesus AS is Dead as are other prophets before. Please read carefully and kindly read also the Arabic in the copy of the Holy Qur'an

*3:54 Behold! Allah Said: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me and I shall clear you of those who reject Faith, and I am going to make those who follow you above those who reject Faith - until the day of Awakening. Then towards Me is your return, so that I shall decide among you as to in which you used to differ. *

4:157 And (because of) their saying: "Surely we have killed the Masih, - ‘Isa, son of Mar-yam" the Rasul of Allah, and they could not murder him, nor could they kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to resemble to them. And verily those who differ regarding him are certainly in a doubt about him. They have no knowledge about it but are merely following a guess; and they could not kill him for certain;

*4:158 On the contrary, Allah exalted him towards Himself. And Allah is Exalted in Power, most Wise. *

…WA ma qataluhu yaqinan (157). Bal rafa’ahu-llahu ilaihi …..(158))

They key words here are : Ya Isa, inni mutawaffika wa rafi’uka ilaiya ** **Meaning: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me….."

If Jesus(pbuh) died a natural death, it is still valid that the Jews could not (a) murder him or (b) kill him by crucifixion.

5:75 The Messiah, son of Maryam, was none but a Rasul, surely the Rasuls have passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman and they both used to take food…

Among other things, this verse tells two things: ** *(1) Jesus(pbuh) was only a Rasul, * **(2) Rasuls before him have passed away.

*3:143 Muhammad is no more than a Rasul, surely the Rasuls before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?… *

Among other things, this verse tells two things: ** *(1) Muhammad(pbuh) was only a Rasul, * **(2) Rasuls before him have passed away.

*21:7 We did not send before you (O Muhammad(pbuh)) any but man to whom We sent revelations; therefore you ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know * *21:8 And We did not give them bodies not taking food and neither are they abiding *

Among other things, the important findings from these verses are: ** *(1) All Rasuls were human beings * *(2) Their mortal bodies sustained on food * **(3) They are all dead

25:20 And We did not send before you any the Rasuls, but they surely ate food and walked through the street.

*5:116 And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Isa, son of Maryam was it you who said to the people (-- the Christians, especially the Roman Catholic) "Take me and my mother for two deities besides Allah?" He will say: "Glory to be to You! It is not fit for me to say what is not right for me (to utter). If I had said that, You would then have known it indeed. You know what is in my mind, while I do not know what is in Your mind. Surely you are the great Knower of hidden matter *

5:117 "I did not say to them anything except about what You had ordered me, namely, "serve Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb" and I was witness over them so long as I was with them, but when you caused me to die (wafat), You were Watcher over them. And You are a Witness over all things

The key word here is ‘wafat’ - death. Falamma tawaffai tani - that is, ‘but when you caused me to die.’

*Great Prophets like Muhammad(pbuh) are exalted. * *43:32 …And We have raised some of them above others in rank. (…WA rafa’ na…) * *94:4 And We have exalted for you your mention (…WA rafa’ NA…) *

*Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah. * *6:84 ….We exalt in degrees whom We please (…narfa’u darazaa…) *

*Prophet Idris(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah. * *19:57 And We raised him to an elevated state. (WA rafa’naa hu…) *

*Righteous servants of Allah are raised in degrees. * *6:166 …and He raises some of you above the others in degrees…. (…WA rafa’ aa * *ba’dakum…) * *7:176 And had We wished We would invariably exalted him; …. (…rafa’naa hu….) *

*56:3 It will abase it will exalt (…rafi’aah…) *

*All good deeds are raised towards Allah. * *35:10 …all pure speech and all good deed, --He exalts it…. (…yarfa’uhu. …) *

House of pious Muslims are raised high by Allah. ** **24:36 in (certain) houses which Allah has permitted to be raised up… (…an turfa’a WA yuzkara…)

67:3 Who has created the seven heavens in harmony. You can not see in the creation of the Rahman any inconsistency. Then turn again the gaze. Do you see any crack?

67:4 And then turn again the search once more, the eyesight will return to you defeated, while it is fatigued

17:77 … And you will not find any change in Our course.

*30:30 … there is no altering in the creation of Allah *

*33:62 … and you will not find any alteration in the course of Allah. *

35:43 … But you will never find any change in the course of Allah and you will never find any shifting in the course of Allah.

48:23 the law of Allah which has been in operation from before, and you will never find any change in the course of Allah.

16:70 And Allah creates you, then He causes you to die; and among you someone is caused to return to the worst of the age, resulting in his not knowing anything after knowledge. Allah is truly all Knowing, most Capable.

*22:5 … And of you is one who is caused to die, and among you is one who is turned back to the worst part of life until he does not know anything after having * *known... *

36:68 And whomsoever We lengthen life, We reverse him in constitution

4:82 Do they not then ponder over Quran? And had it been from anyone except Allah, they would surely have found therein a great deal of discrepancy.

86:13-14 Verily this (- the Qur-an) is a conclusive discourse, and it is not a thing of joke.

Where? Because I can't see where did Holy Qur'an clearly state that "Jesus is dead"?

[chacha_Ghalib]

@AQ

I love when it is proved from Quran and then various ahaadeeth that Isa (AS) was raised bodily alive, but chacha keeps beating his trumpet, then, what is the use of wasting energy on something that has been told to him already.

really now?
i was asking for such proof for a whole week and you seemed unable to produce a single hadith or a single ayah saying Jesus was raised to the heavens and still lives there. All you could come up with was that kahoolat argument which i answered in my last post. You know, i took your inability to give any proof to mean that you didn't have any. :)

Now i learn that it is proven by the holy quran and various ahadeeth. Will you please lay out such proofs to enlighten us ignorant souls. Should i open another thread or would you like to do the honours?

If you, as usual, back away then stop chanting the same thing in every ahmadiyya related thread.

[Zero_one]

@hareem01

Where? Because I can't see where did Holy Qur'an clearly state that "Jesus is dead"?

Just try to read and maybe that helps

Ignoring the facts doesn't help to ease the pain :D

**3:54 Behold! Allah Said: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me and I shall clear you of those who reject Faith, and I am going to make those who follow you above those who reject Faith - until the day of Awakening. Then towards Me is your return, so that I shall decide among you as to in which you used to differ.

They key words here are : Ya Isa, inni mutawaffika wa rafi’uka ilaiya
Meaning: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me….."**

Enough or u need more

**Look at the arabic words used in the below given reference and maybe then u understand that the only difference between the 2 verses is Isa Ibn-e-Maryam and Muhammad SAW. So if all Rasools before Jesus AS passed away then so did all before Muhammad SAW.

5:75 The Messiah, son of Maryam, was none but a Rasul, surely the Rasuls have passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman and they both used to take food…

3:143 Muhammad is no more than a Rasul, surely the Rasuls before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?…**

Need more let me know or just my above long post carefully

And if u mean exalted or in the arabic word used in the Holy Qur'an "Rafa'a" does provide enough evidence to claim Jesus AS was raised alive then tell me whom of the following were also raised alive as the same arabic word is used again

The word ‘rafa’ was used in different places in the Quran to mean spiritual honor and exaltation. Some of the examples:

**43:32 …And We have raised some of them above others in rank. (…WA rafa’ na…)
94:4 And We have exalted for you your mention (…WA rafa’ NA…)

Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah.
6:84 ….We exalt in degrees whom We please (…narfa’u darazaa…)

Prophet Idris(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah.
19:57 And We raised him to an elevated state. (WA rafa’naa hu…)**

[AQ]

@chacha_Ghalib

really now?
i was asking for such proof for a whole week and you seemed unable to produce a single hadith or a single ayah saying Jesus was raised to the heavens and still lives there. All you could come up with was that kahoolat argument which i answered in my last post. You know, i took your inability to give any proof to mean that you didn’t have any.

Now i learn that it is proven by the holy quran and various ahadeeth. Will you please lay out such proofs to enlighten us ignorant souls. Should i open another thread or would you like to do the honours?

If you, as usual, back away then stop chanting the same thing in every ahmadiyya related thread.

…

@AQ

Also must listen this two part lecture:

[AQ]

@Zero_one

Just try to read and maybe that helps

Ignoring the facts doesn't help to ease the pain :D

*3:54 Behold! Allah Said: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me and I shall clear you of those who reject Faith, and I am going to make those who follow you above those who reject Faith - until the day of Awakening. Then towards Me is your return, so that I shall decide among you as to in which you used to differ. *

They key words here are : Ya Isa, inni mutawaffika wa rafi’uka ilaiya ** **Meaning: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me….."

correct.. it will happen after his second coming ... does not contradict our belief at all

@Zero_one

Enough or u need more

*Look at the arabic words used in the below given reference and maybe then u understand that the only difference between the 2 verses is Isa Ibn-e-Maryam and Muhammad SAW. So if all Rasools before Jesus AS passed away then so did all before Muhammad SAW. *

5:75 The Messiah, son of Maryam, was none but a Rasul, surely the Rasuls have passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman and they both used to take food…

3:143 Muhammad is no more than a Rasul, surely the Rasuls before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?…

does not mean all passed away... does it?

@Zero_one

Need more let me know or just my above long post carefully

And if u mean exalted or in the arabic word used in the Holy Qur'an "Rafa'a" does provide enough evidence to claim Jesus AS was raised alive then tell me whom of the following were also raised alive as the same arabic word is used again

The word ‘rafa’ was used in different places in the Quran to mean spiritual honor and exaltation. Let us see some of the examples:

*43:32 …And We have raised some of them above others in rank. (…WA rafa’ na…) * *94:4 And We have exalted for you your mention (…WA rafa’ NA…) *

*Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah. * *6:84 ….We exalt in degrees whom We please (…narfa’u darazaa…) *

Prophet Idris(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah. ** **19:57 And We raised him to an elevated state. (WA rafa’naa hu…)

the word is used in conjuction with Mutaawaffeeka in case of Isa (AS)

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

great job brother AQ… jazakAllah :biggthumb

what am i suppose to do with these videos? you were writing pretty long posts up there and now you can’t even copy/paste a couple of ayahs or ahadith? i hope you know that it is pretty inconvenient to watch a video and debate on the points raised in it. I take it that you listened to it? why not just jot a couple of points down for our convenience?

[AQ]

Re: Ahmadi-Thread

bhaago naheeN .... shaabaash!

this is Ahmediat teaches you to start ridiculing your opponent.. by such gestures? :D

sure it does... after all, we all know the language Mirza saahab used against his opponents...

[Mr_OuiJa]

@AQ

bhaago naheeN .... shaabaash!

this is Ahmediat teaches you to start ridiculing your opponent.. by such gestures? :D

sure it does... after all, we all know the language Mirza saahab used against his opponents...

Sorry AQ but this is a very lame statement. If non ahmadis dont find any argument to beat Ahmadi Muslim, then start with such a horrible statement.

Shall I show you from Holy Quran and Hadith what Allah(swt) and his beloved Prophet (saw) said about kafirs and even Ulema in Islam. what kind of hard words were used??
You know this language too?
I am not attacking Holy Quran and Hadith, this is our life, I am just showing you before attacking us Ahmadi Muslim, study Islam!!!

[AQ]

@Mr_OuiJa

Sorry AQ but this is a very lame statement. If non ahmadis dont find any argument to beat Ahmadi Muslim, then start with such a horrible statement.

Shall I show you from Holy Quran and Hadith what Allah(swt) and his beloved Prophet (saw) said about kafirs and even Ulema in Islam. what kind of hard words were used?? You know this language too?

which tells us that you and Mirza saahab telling similar words to "outsiders" like us are justified... Please, share...!

[Zero_one]

@AQ

correct.. it will happen after his second coming ... does not contradict our belief at all

does not mean all passed away... does it?

the word is used in conjuction with Mutaawaffeeka in case of Isa (AS)

Hmmmm.... when Allah SWT caused him death then he's still able to come back ..... any proof from the Holy Qur'an .... no ..... ah never mind :D

Surely it does means all passed away before Muhammad SAW if u believe that all passed away before Jesus AS (coz only difference is the name of the rasool, Jesus AS/Muhammad SAW) ..... but if not then surely some must be raised alive right ? If so then maybe Ibrahim AS is alive or Mussa AS ???!!!

What does Mutaawaffeeka means "causing death/giving death" ..... or maybe someone who's Arabic is way better than mine can explain

[Faru]

Firstly Salam to all the brothers & sisters, Ahmadi Muslims or non Ahmadi Muslims.

@ mr. AQ: u know u could type "Anti Ahmadiyya" in google.com and you will find many websites who have made quite a few points against Ahmadiyyat you could always do that and copy past it here n not put on videos thats if you ur self don't want to open Quran and note down the Proof you are talking about?
Personally i don't think anyone would watch those videos...
Just my point of view :)

[AQ]

@Zero_one

Hmmmm… when Allah SWT caused him death then he’s still able to come back … any proof from the Holy Qur’an … no … ah never mind

no no… do not mind… I said Quran says.. when he dies not when he died

@Zero_one

Surely it does means all passed away before Muhammad SAW if u believe that all passed away before Jesus AS (coz only difference is the name of the rasool, Jesus AS/Muhammad SAW) … but if not then surely some must be raised alive right ? If so then maybe Ibrahim AS is alive or Mussa AS !!!

first… again… the arabic does not say “All” …

and passed away does not mean Died..

second, by the various narrations, it is established that Prophets are alive in their graves anyway.. so Mussa (AS) or Ibrahim (AS) are alive anyway…

Remember the famous hadith on the night of Miraaj, when prophet:saw: saw Musa (as) standing in his grave and praying..?

@Zero_one

What does Mutaawaffeeka means “causing death/giving death” … or maybe someone who’s Arabic is way better than mine can explain

already posted a lecture on it which everyone is scared to listen to

[AQ]

@Faru

Personally i don't think anyone would watch those videos... Just my point of view :)

not my fault if people do not want to listen to it... they asked a question, I provided it however I did.. does not make the claim less important... I am not a scholar so I will provide you references from people who are either scholar or have knowledge of such matters...

[chacha_Ghalib]

@AQ

bhaago naheeN .... shaabaash!

this is Ahmediat teaches you to start ridiculing your opponent.. by such gestures? :D

sure it does... after all, we all know the language Mirza saahab used against his opponents...

am i running away? really?

i thought you were going to lay out proofs for the fact that hazrat Isa (as) was bodily raised to the heavens and still lives there. and what have we seen so far? you posting a video and then sidetracking the discussion to what ahmadiyyat teaches me and what language mirza sahib used against his opponents.

the laugh was at you posting the video to support your argument and i couldn't help it. How is that ridiculing you? I wrote a paragraph after the laughing part which you missed. Could you please read that and jot down a couple of points raised in the video in support of your belief.

[Faru]

@AQ

no no… do not mind… I said Quran says.. when he dies not when he died

I think he asked for proof not ur own words Quran do says by ur claim but where?

any proof from the Holy Qur’an

first… again… the arabic does not say “All” …

and passed away does not mean Died..

second, by the various narrations, it is established that Prophets are alive in their graves anyway.. so Mussa (AS) or Ibrahim (AS) are alive anyway…

Remember the famous hadith on the night of Miraaj, when prophet:saw: saw Musa (as) standing in his grave and praying..?

already posted a lecture on it which everyone is scared to listen to

Passed away does not mean died then what does it means?
So if i say my dad’s elder brother passed away can we take this with any other meaning then death please tell?

Well since you have talked about Miraaj i want to ask your belief on it can you please tell me in what state Hazoor (saw) went on Miraaj?

you said by various narrations “WHO”???
hmm so does this means that except the perfect person Prophet (saw) most other famous Prophets were not given death and are alive either in grave or by God all mighty?

[Zero_one]

@AQ

no no… do not mind… I said Quran says.. when he dies not when he died

first… again… the arabic does not say “All” …

and passed away does not mean Died..

second, by the various narrations, it is established that Prophets are alive in their graves anyway.. so Mussa (AS) or Ibrahim (AS) are alive anyway…

Looks like it’s a futile excercise … when so many Prophets are alive why still in a grave ??? why they r not going to their respective PPL and tell them what they r doing wrong.

Khair my Last post coz after knowing that so many Prophets are alive in their graves i’m speechless really.

A happy ramzan to all of u may Allah SWT bless and sheds his bounty on all of u. Ameen.

Allah hafiz

[chacha_Ghalib]

@AQ

not my fault if people do not want to listen to it... they asked a question, I provided it however I did.. does not make the claim less important... I am not a scholar so I will provide you references from people who are either scholar or have knowledge of such matters...

i can post videos in response and what will you do? will you listen to them or post more videos? There are tens of videos of Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad, in which he discusses the death of Jesus. Should i start posting them here and we'll have a video discussion, only the people discussing would not be us but others.

you are not a scholar but sure pass judgments about others like you are a prophet.

[AQ]

@Faru

I think he asked for proof not ur own words :) Quran do says by ur claim but where?

The quote from the quran is already posted in this thread

@Faru

Passed away does not mean died then what does it means?

does not necessarliy mean died, i should have said..

@Faru

So if i say my dad's elder brother passed away can we take this with any other meaning then death please tell?

it means gone from this world ... we go when we die... Isa (AS) went when he was taken alive up in heavens..

@Faru

Well since you have talked about Miraaj i want to ask your belief on it can you please tell me in what state Hazoor (saw) went on Miraaj?

It was a physical journey with body..

@Faru

you said by various narrations "WHO"????

I hope you know the meaning of narrations .. I do not have all the ahaadeeth memorized.. I stated it from my knowledge... The ahaadeeth are there... If I can not provide them because I do not have the text available with me, it does not mean they are not there ...

@Faru

hmm so does this means that except the perfect person Prophet (saw) most other famous Prophets were not given death and are alive either in grave or by God all mighty?

Since when death became the criteria of being better than other?