Ahle bait

Society Religion & Philosophy
121

Re: Ahle bait

Brother Ya_Sultan_e_Madina

The term ‘Ahlul Bayt’ used in Quran has refers to ‘People of the House’ and clearly the Quran and the narrations of the Prophet (saw) have clearly shown that the wife/wives are part and parcel of a man’s family without any exception.

See following:

[RIGHT]قَالَتْ يوَيْلَتَا ءَأَلِدُ وَأَنَاْ عَجُوزٌ وَهَـذَا بَعْلِى شَيْخًا] [/RIGHT]

(She said (in astonishment): "Woe unto me! Shall I bear a child while I am an old woman, and here is my husband an old man’') Allah speaks of her statement in this verse, just as He spoke of her action in another verse.

[RIGHT]فَأَقْبَلَتِ امْرَأَتُهُ فِى صَرَّةٍ فَصَكَّتْ وَجْهَهَا وَقَالَتْ عَجُوزٌ عَقِيمٌ ] [/RIGHT]

(Then his wife came forward with a loud voice: she smote her face, and said: "A barren old woman!‘’)[51:29] This was the custom of the women in their speech and actions when they were expressing amazement.

[RIGHT]قَالُواْ أَتَعْجَبِينَ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللَّهِ] [/RIGHT]

(Then said: "Do you wonder at the decree of Allah’‘) This means that the angels were saying to her, "Do not be amazed at the command of Allah, for verily, whenever He wants something, He merely says `Be’ and it is. So do not be amazed at this, even though you are old and barren and your husband is a very old man. Verily, Allah is able to do whatever He wills.‘’

[RIGHT]رَحْمَتُ اللَّهِ وَبَرَكَـتُهُ عَلَيْكُمْ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ إِنَّهُ حَمِيدٌ مَّجِيدٌ] [/RIGHT]

(The mercy of Allah and His blessing be on you, O the family (of Ibrahim). Surely, He (Allah) is All-Praiseworthy, All-Glorious.)

One can clearly see that ‘Ahlul bayt’ is used to address Hz Ibrahim (as) and his wife.

Hadith about Salutations to the Prophet (saw).

It is confirmed in the two Sahihs that they (the Prophet’s Companions) said, "Verily, we already know how to greet you with Salam (peace), but how do we send Salah (prayer) upon you, O Messenger of Allah’’ He said,

[RIGHT]«قُولُوا: اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَلَى آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ كَمَا صَلَّيْتَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلِ إبْرَاهِيمَ، وَبَارِكْ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَلَى آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ كَمَا بَارَكْتَ عَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ إِنَّكَ حَمِيدٌ مَجِيد» [/RIGHT]

(Say, "O Allah, send prayers upon Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, just as You have sent prayers upon Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim. And bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, just as You have blessed the family of Ibrahim. Truly, You are the All-Praiseworthy, All-Glorious.‘’)

*Ka’b bin ‘Uzrah (Razi Allah Ta’lah Anhu) met me. He said, "Shall I not give you a present (of a tradition) I hear from the Prophet?’Yes’ I said, 'give me.’ Ka’b bin 'Uzrah (ra) said: We asked the Messenger of Allah and enquired: O Prophet of Allah! How shall be the blessings invoked on you, the people of the House? Because Allah has taught us how we shall greet you.

He said: Say: O Allah, bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad as you had blessed Abraham and the family of Abraham. Verily you are the Praised, the Glorious. O Allah, bestow favours on Muhammad and on the family of Muhammad as you had bestowed favours on Abraham and on the family of Abraham." *Narrated by Abdur-Rahman bin Abi Laila (Razi Allah Ta’lah Anhu); Sahih Bukhari and Muslim transmitted it. Hadith No. 919 of Mishkat al-Masabih.

The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! How shall we (ask Allah to) send blessings on you?” Allah’s Apostle (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam) replied, "Say: O Allah! Send Your Mercy on Muhammad and on his wives and on his offspring, as You sent Your Mercy on Abraham’s family; and send Your Blessings on Muhammad and on his wives and on his offspring, as You sent Your Blessings on Abraham’s family, for You are the Most Praiseworthy, the Most Glorious. Narrated by Abu Humaid As-Sa’idi (ra); Sahih Bukhari transmitted it. Vol 4:#588 of Sahih Bukhari.

So when we, Sunnis send salutations to the Prophet (saw) with the above within the prayers and without we clearly know that the blessed family of the Prophet (saw) includes besides himself, his wives, Hz. Ali Lady Fatimah, Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all).

Read the authentic hadith from Sahih Bukhari where the Prophet (saw) has addressed his blessed wives (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) as Ahlul Bayt “O the people of the house” - same as the Quran has done.

*Narrated Anas: A banquet of bread and meat was held on the occasion of the marriage of the Prophet to Zainab bint Jahsh. I was sent to invite the people (to the banquet). and so the people started coming (in groups); They would eat and then leave. Another batch would come. eat and leave.

So I kept on inviting the people till I found nobody to invite. Then I said. “O Allah’s Prophet! I do not find anybody to invite.” He said. “Carry away the remaining food.” Then a batch of three persons stayed in the house chatting.

The Prophet left and went towards the dwelling place of Aisha and said. “Peace and Allah’s Mercy be on you. O the people of the house!” She replied. "Peace and the mercy of Allah be on you too. How did you find your wife? May Allah bless you. Then he went to the dwelling places of all his other wives and said to them the same as he said to Aisha and they said to him the same as Aisha had said to him. Then the Prophet returned and found a group of three persons still in the house chatting.

The Prophet was a very shy person. so he went out (for the second time) and went towards the dwelling place of 'Aisha. I do not remember whether I informed him that the people have gone away. So he returned and as soon as he entered the gate. he drew the curtain between me and him. and then the Verse of Al-Hijab was revealed. *Sahih Bukhari Volume 6. Book 60. Number 316

‏قال ‏ ‏أنس ‏
‏وشهدت ‏ ‏وليمة ‏ ‏زينب ‏ ‏فأشبع الناس خبزا ولحما وكان يبعثني ‏ ‏فأدعو الناس فلما فرغ قام وتبعته فتخلف رجلان استأنس بهما الحديث لم يخرجا فجعل يمر على نسائه فيسلم على كل واحدة منهن ‏ ‏سلام عليكم كيف أنتم يا أهل البيت فيقولون بخير يا رسول الله كيف وجدت أهلك فيقول بخير فلما فرغ رجع ورجعت معه فلما بلغ الباب إذا هو بالرجلين قد استأنس بهما الحديث فلما رأياه قد رجع قاما فخرجا فوالله ما أدري أنا أخبرته أم أنزل عليه الوحي بأنهما قد خرجا فرجع ورجعت معه فلما وضع رجله في ‏ ‏أسكفة ‏ ‏الباب أرخى الحجاب بيني وبينه وأنزل الله تعالى هذه الآية

There are other incidences in the Quran where the term ‘ahl’ is used to refer to wife.

Anyone can see without any iota of doubt that in Quran and hadith ‘Ahlul Bayt has been used for wives.

Read the following link

The Tat’heer ( purification ) verse & Hadeeth of Kisa’a (veil) A Scientific Dialogue

http://www.ansar.org/english/tatheer.htm

Anyway there is enough material in the Shia hadith literature to show that the Prophet (saw) had four daughters.

No one is questioning the high status of Lady Fatimah (ra).

Of course all Sunnis believe that the Prophet (saw) had four daughters without any exception.

Sunnis take Prophet’s (saw) blessed wives to be part of his Ahlul Bayt along with other noble people that you have mentioned.

I hope the ball has passed safely over the net and in well lodged in your part of the court.

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Re: Ahle bait

Simply stating here, the purpose of Ahl' al-Bayt (alaiyhimis-salaam) was that they, as you said regarding Nabi Ibrahim al-Hanif (alaiyhis-salaatu was-salaam), who descended from him through Nabi Ismail (alaiyhis-salaatu was-salaam), was it not Rasul-Allah (saws)?

You must understand what is the purpose of the title of Sayyid? It is a title for the people of Ahl' al-Bayt who descend from Imam Husayn (as). What about those who descend from Imam Hasan (as)? They are of the title ash-Sharif. This is commonly known and found throughout the Muslim world.

That is why, the term of Ahl' al-Bayt encompassing Rasul-Allah's (saws) other daughters is not the point. It is in regards to those who lived to survive and represent Ahl' al-Bayt. Also in regards to surah 33, ayat 33, it was revealed when only Sayyidatina Fatima az-Zahra (alaiyhis-salaam) was the surviving daughter of Sayyidina Rasul-Allah (saws).

Also you have not explained or addressed as to why or how Sayyidina Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (alaiyhis-salaam) is mentioned as Ahl' al-Bayt by Rasul-Allah (saws) and as to why Sayyidina Salman al-Farisi (radi'Allahu anh') is as well.

Through the status of Imam Ali (as) and Bibi Fatima (as), they had descendancy and they are still with us today in this day and age. This is why as from an historical perspective of events which transpired, the title of Ahl' al-Bayt or its mantle is carried through the descendants of Imam Husayn and Imam Hasan (alaiyhimis-salaam).

I would go further in detail to address your rebuttal unfortunately that can only be done when I return on Sunday. Make sure you practice your foul shots because if you miss during crunch time, it could make or break you.

Fee Aman Allah.

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Re: Ahle bait

Also please explain to us, the audience, as to why, when surah 33 verse 33 was revealed, taht immediately, Rasul-Allah (saws) went to the door of Bibi Fatima (alaiyhis-salaam) and recited the aforementioned ayat of Qur'an to them and told them that Allah only wishes to purify you with a thorough purification? You may verify this action of Habib-Allah Sayyidina Muhammad (saws) through both Shi'a and Sunni sources of ahadith.

Wassalaam.

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Re: Ahle bait

YSM, you seem to be a different kind of Sunni, which Aalim/Fiqh do you follow?

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Re: Ahle bait

Brother *Ya_Sultan_e_Madina * - Unfortunately [maybe fortunately too) my last post has been deleted but rightly so as it was not related to the topic and related to Khilaafat addressing the point raised by you.

In my last few lines in that post I had resigned myself from this debate. And I had promised not to respond however tempting.

My main point in this debate was to state the fact our dear Prophet (saw) had four daughters (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them).

I have given you ayahs from the Quran and words of our dear Prophet (saw) where the word “Ahlul Bayt” has been used for wives and other members of the noble family. For me that’s sufficient.

[QUOTE]
Make sure you practice your foul shots because if you miss during crunch time, it could make or break you.
[/QUOTE]

Guess I leaving open court for you. And it has never been my intention to 'score points' by hitting fouls shots. That is not in my nature. I may disagree with you but will not play foul game.

All the chance for you now to lob it back gently or hit a vicious overhead smash. Fortnately for me i will not be at the receiving end.

Was-salaam

PS - brother if you do not mind me asking, are you a naqshbandi sufi? That's what I am assuming.

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Re: Ahle bait

Ibn sadique its your choice to resign from this debate and yes you had used ayahs from quran to prove that prohet had four daughters, but when your logic was challenged from other ayats from quran you never responded.

Please see the following post
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?p=4052379#post4052379

The issue at hand was (I believe) that who is included in the term ahlul bayt, you used quran to prove that the term has been used for wives but the same quran in case of prophet nooh’s wife states that she is not from the ahlulbayt.

I the end I would just like to say that the term Ahlul Bayt, does not mean “ghar wallays” as AHL means deserving, and bayt means house, so the term Ahlulbayt means those deserving of being ghar wallay’s of Prophet.

This is something to think about, hence whether somebody was propehts wife or daughter is of no consequnce the question is who was deserving of it.

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Re: Ahle bait

This is an excellent analysis.

Another example (I am not sure if it is only in Shia books - but I would assume that it is) is when Salman Al Farsi was talking to the Holy Prophet. The Prophet was discussing his Ahlul Bayt and Salman Al Farsi sadly told the Prophet "I am not from your family, so will I not get these rewards?" and the Prophet replied that Salman Al Farsi was from the Ahlul Bayt even though he was not actually part of the Prophets family by blood.

I think Bayt most accurately means "Household"

WaSalaam

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Re: Ahle bait

dont cook up conclusions, ahl-e-bait has been used only for wives in the Quran…
show me somewhere in Quran where it is used otherwise…

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Re: Ahle bait

011.045
**SHAKIR:* And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said: My Lord! surely my son is of my family, and Thy promise is surely true, and Thou art the most just of the judges. *

011.046
**SHAKIR:* He said: O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds, therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge; surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant *

Does this not prove that you have to be deserving of the title, just because someone is a wife or son doesnt prove that they are ahlul bayt of prophet.

If you agree then here is another ayat from quran.

066.004
**SHAKIR:* If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
*
This ayat is about Hz Hifza and Hz Ayesha (all sunni scholars agree) and this is just one of the reason why shias beleive that they were not deserving to be the ahlulbayt of Prophet.

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Re: Ahle bait

Why don't you, armughal, and ibn Sadique, ever talk about Umm al-Mu'mineen Sayyidatina Khadijah (alaiyhis-salaam) as being from Ahl' al-Bayt then? All you ever talk about is the prophet's (saws) other wives (radi'Allah ta'ala anhuma). Also notice that Umm al-Mu'mineen Sayyidatina Fatima az-Zahra (as) was the daughter of Sayyidina Rasul-Allah (saws) and Sayyidatina Khadijah (as)...I am not surprised the least bit at the lack of respect of not even mentioning her name by some people talking about the Prophet's (saws) wives.

Also neither of you have explained as of yet as to why Amir al-Mu'mineen, Sayyidina Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (as) was a part of Rasul-Allah's (saws) ahl' al-Bayt. If it only refers to the prophet's (saws) wives, then why do you not speak about this as mentioned in Hadith al-Kisa, and how Rasul-Allah (saws) after Sura 33, ayat 33 was revealed to him (saws) that he went knocking on the door of the house of Sayyidatina Fatima az-Zahra (as) and recited this verse to her and the rest of the ahl' al-bayt???

It is clear that ahl' al-Bayt refers to only these five, as this is a central and important aspect in Islam. Imam al-Mahdi (as) is a descendant of ahl' al-bayt, the only descendants to this day around the world are from Imam Hasan (as) and Imam Husayn (as). I think it's time for some solid, proven answers from some people here who seem to be presenting confusion after confusion to others. It is very unfortunate and sad to see such things going on.

May Allah (swt) keep us on Haqq.

Every 1111 th poster WINS.....
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Re: Ahle bait

ya sultan e madina..you seem to have a lot of knowledge..i am impressed

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Re: Ahle bait

if u think ayesha (ra) and hafsa (ra) r not ahlel-bait, then u r clearly misguided…

and shame on u for comparing those given the title of UMM-UL-MOMINEEN to someone who Quran has declared as kafir…

obviosuly anyone who is a mo’men will not tolerate such non-sense about a lady declared by Quran as his mother, but others can say what they like to say and shall be answerable to Allah for bad-mouthing the mothers of the believers…

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Re: Ahle bait

sultan man, its not us but shiaas who keep wives out of ahl-e-bait....
we say that all wives r part of ahl-e-bait without any exclusion....

i dont know where u get this idea that we dont consider khadijah (ra) part of ahl-e-bait....
she was the first wife, so she is the first one in this group....

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Re: Ahle bait

I am not comparing anyone, just letting you know that there is a standard for being a member of propehts ahlul bayt, if setting this standard that one has to be deserving of the title upsets you, then so be it.

Prophet's mission was to erradicate this world of such matters where relationship is considered more important then ones character.

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Re: Ahle bait

armughal, When you talk about the Prophet's (saws) wives next time, you should clarify your understanding of her, lady Khadijah's (as) high status in Islam, being among the very first to embrace Islam and all.

You still have not explained as to why Sayyidina Imam Ali (as) is also a part of Ahl' al-Bayt? Do you have any knowledge of as to why?

Again, where is your commentary on Surah 33, Ayah 33 being revealed and Rasul-Allah's (saws) immediate action of going and knocking on the door of Lady Fatimah and informing her of this ayah? Why did he (saws) not go to the door of Lady Aisha (ra'a) or Lady Hafsa (ra'a)?

I would appreciate you giving me some explanation armughal.

Also please tell me about the Hadith al-Kisa. Keep in mind that all of the ahadith are from Sunni sources, and not even from Shi'a sources.

You may say that the prophet's wives (radi'Allahu anhuma) were all Ahl' al-Bayt, but can you direct me towards any of their descendants anywhere in teh world? You see a key aspect of Ahl' al-Bayt is that Imam al-Mahdi (as) is of the descent from Ahl' al-Bayt. If the prophet's wives are ahl' al-bayt, then are you telling me that you think that al-Mahdi (as) could descend from them? If you are, I would say that you are truly misinformed.

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Re: Ahle bait

^ whatever hadith u have and i have cud have been fabricated, but Quran stands unaltered and i repeat again Quranic text is very clear that ahl-e-bait means wives....

and i really dont believe much in the mahdi myth....

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Re: Ahle bait

011.045
**SHAKIR:* And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said: My Lord! surely my son is of my family, and Thy promise is surely true, and Thou art the most just of the judges. *

011.046
**SHAKIR:* He said: O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds, therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge; surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant*

Based on your above statement and this ayat, its safe to assume that you believe wives are among the members of ahlulbayt, you beleive that Hz Fatima is alo among them so daughters are included, Hz Ali is a member of ahlulbayt so you believe that son in laws are included in Ahlul bayt, but your own sons (in light of the above ayat) are not. This is what you believe then right??

So let me put this in point form

Ahlulbyat includes
1. Wives
2. Daughters
3. Son in law

Son however is not included.

Right Armughal??
Interesting.

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Re: Ahle bait

any hadith that goes in favor of Imam Ali (a.s.) and His Family can be fabricated..even if its in their own sahi books…thats running from the truth..i am not surprised :rolleyes:

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Re: Ahle bait

It's quite interesting to see you armughal, a man who sees Imam Mahdi (as) as a myth? What rubbish. This is why many Sunni's have turned into Wahhabi's, eliminate love for Ahl' al-Bayt (Rasul-Allah (saws), Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Husayn), and everything will be fine and dandy of course.

The family of Ismail (as) was endowed with Allah's (swt) favour and mercy and blessings. That is why the Prophet's (saws) only living descendant to have any progeny is Lady Fatima az-Zahra (as) with Amir al-Mu'mineen Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (as).

You still have not answered my question of whether you can tell me of any descendants of Rasul-Allah (saws) in the world other than those who descend from Lady Fatima az-Zahra (as)...?

Since you cannot and I know you cannot because there aren't any known to us, the ahl' al-bayt have been instructed with a specific message in this world to teach the religion to the Muslims properly.

Just take a look, without love for Ahl' al-Bayt, people are turning into self-assumed scholars ready to discern what is truth and what is batil according to personal interpretation. This is unnacceptable for a person who has no ijazah to teach the Qur'an's holy verses, and use them personally to reject any sahih hadith. That is completely unnacceptable and not the method of weighing the Qur'an with the sayings of Rasul-Allah (saws). Only qualifed people of this subject should be sought.

3 Weeks From today
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Re: Ahle bait

read again man, how many times do i need to repeat this for u???
ahl-e-bait in Quran refers to WIVES…

go find the phrase AHL-E-BAIT in the Quran and see the context and u will know…

Shar PasandoN kaa Saalan