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A time will come when you will be left alone in this world by creating enemies. Every nation has seen their rise and fall. It’s your time now. Because majority of you guys are not smart enough to fill those positions in school and work you need us the foreigners.
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LoL. If that makes you feel better than I'm happy for you. Now, while you're waiting for the US to fall drive me to the airport.
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*Originally posted by storch: *
I've been very busy with an 8 month old, 3 and 6 yr olds solo for the weekend. This is not a very time-sensitive subject, however, so I'll get to it in due time.
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Sure, take your time.
Sher Shah Surri
I've heard a lot of bull in my days and I must admit that your outburst was one of the top 5 contenders in pure bull. Not diluted or partial, but 100% bull.
The reality is this.
You seem to be looking at Afhanistan through the prism of mainstream media coverage (CNN, FOX) in your case.
Firstly, the Constitution asserts Islam as the state religion and proscribes any law ‘contrary to the sacred religion’. The Constitution contains the same language as the country's 1964 Constitution to guarantee that ‘In Afghanistan no law will be made, which will oppose Islamic principles’.
Secondly, It's those who 'believe' they have suffered the most in the past who feel most passionately about the need for change. The Panjshir valley as an example, which used to be the hotbed of anti-Taliban resistance and where the voter registration figures now are twice what the UN has originally expected. The radio, the mullahs and the district officials have all promoted the election. This is there chance to choose a leader who is patriotic and Islamic. The valley was the center of resistance against the Russians and the Taliban.
Women and men have equal rights under a new constitution, but most women are unaware of those rights or have no way to enforce them. Women still lack access to basic health care and water resources. The risk of rape and sexual violence by members of armed factions and former combatants is still high. Forced marriage, particularly of under-aged girls, and violence against women in the family are widespread in many areas of the country.
These crimes of violence continue with the active support or passive complicity of state agents, armed groups, families and communities. This continuing violence against women in Afghanistan causes
untold suffering and denies women their fundamental human rights. The situation of women in Afghanistan remains appalling. Though girls and women in Kabul, and some other cities, are free to go to school and have jobs, this is not the case in most parts of the country. Many women have no access to education and are banned from working in foreign NGOs or UN offices, and there are hardly any women in government offices. Women cannot take a taxi or walk in public unless accompanied by a close male relative. If seen with men who are not close relatives, women can be arrested by the “special police” and forced to undergo a hospital examination to see if they have recently had sexual intercourse. Because of this continued oppression, every month a large number of girls commit suicide — many more than under Taliban rule.
No Taliban here to blame!
According to Human Rights Watch, even in Kabul, where thousands of foreign troops are present, Afghan women do not feel safe and many continue to wear the burqa for protection. In spite of its rhetoric, the Karzai government actively pursues policies that are anti-women. A law passed in the mid-1970s that prohibited married women from attending high school was upheld by the government in September, resulting in the expulsion of more than 3000 women students.
The “war on terror” toppled the Taliban regime, but it has not removed religious radicalism and fanaticism, which is the main cause of misery for Afghan women. In fact, by bringing the warlords back to power, the US has replaced one anti-women, fundamentalist regime with another.
The US now supports the Northern Alliance, which was responsible for killing more than 50,000 civilians during its bloody rule in the 1990s.
The 2003 Opium harvest is the second highest recorded in Afghanistan since surveying began in 1994. I wonder why?
Every day, people see the silent death striking their families and friends, hopeless and terrified at the sight of the next funeral in their minds' eyes. This indiscriminate murder of the Afghan people continues while those, whose tax money paid for the monstrous weapons and brought about this genocide pretend as though all is well.
The pregnant women are afraid from giving birth to babies--horrified to see a deformity instead of a healthy child. This is the legacy of the US "liberation", an indiscriminate murder of the weak and the unarmed that do not have any means of self-defense. In fact, there is no defensive measure against such Weapons of Mass Destruction because these deadly particles of uranium oxide--the dust formed after uranium pulverizes upon impacting a target--remain in soil, water and cover the surface of vegetation for generations to come.
As far as Freedom is concerned, what Freedom? Free to get fcuked by USA, World Bank and IMO under the pretence of manmade versions of democracy? Yeah Right.
Like I said to your sidekick Storch. Name one thing that USA has given Afghanistan since invading the country that it did not have via Islam!
Karzai is a stooge for your darling USA and was an ex employee of the Carlyle Multinational Group whose board members include, Bush, Major and Bin Laden.
Next time be factual and not fictional and speak with your head and not your ar..?
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You seem to be looking at Afhanistan through the prism of mainstream media coverage (CNN, FOX) in your case.
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And you are clearly looking at Afhanistan through the prism of the far-right Islamic media coverage (kalifah.com amd jus.com) in your case.
The fact is that you live in the UK and don't know diddly-shyte about the reality in Afhanistan.
The most telling statistic here is that there was 80% voter turnout. It's clear that the Afhanis overwhelmingly want democracy in their future, so shut your pie-hole.
Food for oil, food for votes 
So … Who won?
I mean the elections.
STU
Obviously a sore nerve has been touched for you to actually speak and put two sentences together. I'll be brief.
Firstly, there is no such place as Afhanistan and neither are there a people known as Afhanis! Typo error I suppose?
Secondly, unlike you, some of us actually know where Afghanistan is on the world map, do research, can read and actually travel the world. (we are it's neighbours). It may seem hard for you to comprehend, but airports and flight services do exist outside the US.
If you had bothered to look at Afghanistans Political history let alone read it, you would have noticed that the Afghan people have never given allegiance to any one leader and have always had tribal leaders and warlords as their peers whether monarch or no monarch as leader. The British and Russians have always vied for a chunk, but good old America sneaks in via the back door and bombs through the front.
The fact they turned out to vote might be baffling to you, but where we come from, voting for a leader is the norm. Yes Islam introduced voting for a leader over 1400 years ago. It is the West who installed the Monarchy in the first instance and forced Afghanistan into Dictatorship rule. And now you don't like it and want the Gas lines, so you decide to introduce your version of Democracy!
Just because some extreme members of clan decide to control a part of a country via infighting does not mean that the whole movement or Way of Life must be the same! Hard to grasp for you I know. But try and try as practice makes perfect.
So next time you think of pie holes as you so eloquently put it. Start at home!
I've heard a lot of bull in my days and I must admit that your outburst was one of the top 5 contenders in pure bull. Not diluted or partial, but 100% bull.
Only a bullshi**er will know the difference.
The reality is this.
Your reality is nothing but what you read in Urdu, Mullah loving news papers.
You seem to be looking at Afhanistan through the prism of mainstream media coverage (CNN, FOX) in your case.
No, fortunately I have friends and family in Afghanistan. I also worked with Afghan charities and donor groups. Now go suck on a lolly JANG and DAWN boy.
Firstly, the Constitution asserts Islam as the state religion and proscribes any law ‘contrary to the sacred religion’. The Constitution contains the same language as the country's 1964 Constitution to guarantee that ‘In Afghanistan no law will be made, which will oppose Islamic principles’.
And what is the problem? Just two days ago it was announced that the ministry of Vice and Virtue just like they had one in the Taliban time will be reopened carrying out the same laws. I a waiting for one such ministry to open up in Pakistan, the democratic nation wanna be.
Secondly, It's those who 'believe' they have suffered the most in the past who feel most passionately about the need for change. The Panjshir valley as an example, which used to be the hotbed of anti-Taliban resistance and where the voter registration figures now are twice what the UN has originally expected. The radio, the mullahs and the district officials have all promoted the election. This is there chance to choose a leader who is patriotic and Islamic. The valley was the center of resistance against the Russians and the Taliban.
You dont know jack shyt man.
For your kind information, many Taliban have helped Karzai in the new elections. In fact all of the area of Kandahar supports Karzai and the new government. Taliban will also be given a chance in the up coming elections for Afghan ministries. It was the Taliban that made the elections happen in the first place.
The people of Northern Alliance thought that during these times of elections, chaos and panic will prevail in the Pashtun areas that will give them a chance to unite their forces and declare their own leader. But that didn’t happen, in fact Karzai and many of the Pashtun leaders, arranged secret meetings that allowed the election process to go smoothly in their areas and now we have a declared Pashtun leader in Afghanistan. In fact it was the Taliban that provided information on the 3 Pakistani MAToos arrested in Afghanistan trying to blow shyt up.
Women and men have equal rights under a new constitution, but most women are unaware of those rights or have no way to enforce them. Women still lack access to basic health care and water resources. The risk of rape and sexual violence by members of armed factions and former combatants is still high. Forced marriage, particularly of under-aged girls, and violence against women in the family are widespread in many areas of the country.
Nothing but ridiculous Urdu news paper garbage and Mullah loving hot air.
Most women in all major Muslim countries are not aware of their rights both from the government and religiously. Afghanistan is a country coming out of chaos of 30 years of war, what do you expect? Pakistan is still a 3rd world country after 50 years, with poverty levels sky rocketing, and here we have Afghanistan that has been through shyt, and we expect everything to change over night?
There are many factions still out there but hundreds of people have been disarmed, many popular warlords have been forced into submission, the recent case in Herat, and that of the Badsha Khan Zadran. Dustom is also in check and so is Fahim who was kicked to the curb from his defense position. Everything will happen slowly, nothing happens over night. Rapes are comon in Pakistan as well, in fact gang rapes of Quran-e-Hafiz and many women activists. Under age marriages by force happens all over Muslim countries including India. Afghanistan at least has an excuse, its been through hell. Violence against women in families happen all over the world, especially in Pakistan and India where burning them alive is the must thing to do if you want to be known.
Anything else from your Urdu Mullah loving news papers? Btw, ever tried looking in the mirror?
These crimes of violence continue with the active support or passive complicity of state agents, armed groups, families and communities. This continuing violence against women in Afghanistan causes untold suffering and denies women their fundamental human rights. The situation of women in Afghanistan remains appalling. Though girls and women in Kabul, and some other cities, are free to go to school and have jobs, this is not the case in most parts of the country. Many women have no access to education and are banned from working in foreign NGOs or UN offices, and there are hardly any women in government offices. Women cannot take a taxi or walk in public unless accompanied by a close male relative. If seen with men who are not close relatives, women can be arrested by the “special police” and forced to undergo a hospital examination to see if they have recently had sexual intercourse. Because of this continued oppression, every month a large number of girls commit suicide — many more than under Taliban rule.
More garbage, decorated with fancy words. Women are more open now then they were during the time of the Taliban, you only need to pay a visit to Kabul and the reset of the country i.e Jalalabad and Nengrahhar. Including Kandahar where there are now police women in the heart of the Pashtun land. Even undercover police women are working. In a recent case a police women shot 3 MAToos. There are women majors in the army, women pilots being trained, women doctors, women politicians running for presidency etc. etc. etc. please don’t post garbage from Urdu news papers.
Hardly any women in government offices? Ahhahahahaha like I said the true hate and taboo toward America comes from these people and their hypocritical mentality. If you want to see women workers in the government, you need to pay a visit to Afghanistan. I can arrange it if you want. The free world needs to do something about Pakistanis like you who misinform and misguide innocent Muslims while themselves enjoy the liberities of the Western world.
No Taliban here to blame!
No only Urdu Mullah loving news papers.
**According to Human Rights Watch, even in Kabul, where thousands of foreign troops are present, Afghan women do not feel safe and many continue to wear the burqa for protection. In spite of its rhetoric, the Karzai government actively pursues policies that are anti-women. A law passed in the mid-1970s that prohibited married women from attending high school was upheld by the government in September, resulting in the expulsion of more than 3000 women students./b]
The nation is at war, what do you want? There are hundreds of thousands of women wearing Burkha even in Pakistan, are they not safe or do they do it because it is part of their culture and religion? More garbage...
The “war on terror” toppled the Taliban regime, but it has not removed religious radicalism and fanaticism, which is the main cause of misery for Afghan women. In fact, by bringing the warlords back to power, the US has replaced one anti-women, fundamentalist regime with another.
I don’t think you pay that much attention, the warlords are getting a kick in the a$$. You might want to pay more attention as to what is happening. It were the warlords that recently walked out on Karzai in the elections because they know that a boot is waiting for them.
Those who have been kicked in the arse..well ask Fahim, Badshah Khan Zadran and Ismail Khan. These 3 are big time players, now all 3 are rotting like little dogs.
US now supports the Northern Alliance, which was responsible for killing more than 50,000 civilians during its bloody rule in the 1990s.
Not only the Northern Alliance but also Gulbadin Hekmatyar who was supported by Pakistan at that time.
The US supports those that serve their interest best. It WAS supporting the Northern Alliance, now it is supporting the Pashtuns and that includes many Taliban leaders which you will slowly know about in the future. Since the US knows that without Pashtuns support there is no ruling Afghanistan, it has no choice. Something Pakistan figured out in the early days when it supported Northern Alliance hero Ahmed Shah Masood and then dumped him and picked Gulbadin as its stooge.
**Every day, people see the silent death striking their families and friends, hopeless and terrified at the sight of the next funeral in their minds' eyes. This indiscriminate murder of the Afghan people continues while those, whose tax money paid for the monstrous weapons and brought about this genocide pretend as though all is well.
The pregnant women are afraid from giving birth to babies--horrified to see a deformity instead of a healthy child. This is the legacy of the US "liberation", an indiscriminate murder of the weak and the unarmed that do not have any means of self-defense. In fact, there is no defensive measure against such Weapons of Mass Destruction because these deadly particles of uranium oxide--the dust formed after uranium pulverizes upon impacting a target--remain in soil, water and cover the surface of vegetation for generations to come.***
Who are you trying to scare? Please save me the scare. You sound more like CNN then I do. People are having weddings and parities in Afghanistan, people are rejoicing and you are talking about fear…the roots of terror are in your hearts buddy. If we need to stop MAToos and terrorist we need to deal with people like you who bark garbage out for no reason.
As far as Freedom is concerned, what Freedom? Free to get fcuked by USA, World Bank and IMO under the pretence of manmade versions of democracy? Yeah Right.
Well Pakistan doesn’t seem to mind it.
Like I said to your sidekick Storch. Name one thing that USA has given Afghanistan since invading the country that it did not have via Islam!
I hope you are not calling Taliban “ISLAM” because they were no where close to Islam. They were more about Pashtunism then Islam. Trust me I know, I am a Pashtun.
But to answer what the US gave, we don’t have people shooting women in the head in the football stadiums. Women are not beaten up in the streets for wearing white sandals. Women are not beaten up in the streets for showing their faces. Men are not beaten up for not showing up at the mosque. Little girls from the ethnic minorities of Afghanistan are not being sold to Arabs and Pakis. Little girls are not gang raped. They are allowed to go to schools, see a doctor even if the doctor happens to be a man. Walk out of home without the need of asking Talib permission. Women can support their families now by working rather then prostituting since working women were not allowed. People can play sports, watch movies, watch tv, practice their cultural activities. Perform the Attan, cultural dance of Pashtuns banned by sick Talibans. People can play Buskashi, banned under the perverted Talibans. Tajiks, Pashtuns, Uzbeks, Hazaras can sit each other and talk rather then killing each other like they were during the Taliban time.
Best of all, no Arabs, no PAKIS! Even though I am a Pakistani, I am happy for them for not having an ISI or Wahabi sob messing in their affairs.
Karzai is a stooge for your darling USA and was an ex employee of the Carlyle Multinational Group whose board members include, Bush, Major and Bin Laden.
Oh WOW, you watched Fahrenheit 9-11. Talk about CNN. Good for you that you did, what do you say about Musharaf, is he an angel? You know what they call people like you in Islam, MUNAFIQs.
Next time be factual and not fictional and speak with your head and not your ar..?
You might want to practice what you preach. Nothing you said was factual except the opium crop part. That was the only thing that held some truth. You need to be more factual the next time rather then pu**y farting all the garbage you picked up from your Mullah loving Urdu newspapers and Jihadi sites.
Chao!
^^ Sooray:At least the Iraqis are putting up some sort of resistance against the American occupying forces, But Afghanis you people have no integrity, No self respect…Damn….Oprah winfrey could rule you lot…
Most of Afghanis have integrity, but unfortunately there are plenty of people like SSS who have sold there country to their American lords. SSS has one answer for everything: “How about Pakistan, How about Musharraf?” Why don’t you stick to Afghanistan instead of manipulating the questions? No body here is agreeing that everything is perfect in Pakistan. So stop using Pakistan’s examples. I am sure you are not any new member to this board; you must be someone who is posting with new id. Anti Mullah and anti jihadi remarks are nothing new on this board.
SSS Two things:
A: Dude lighten up. Itna ghoosa 
tauba tuaba :nono:. Himat kar hasad na kar. Allah Acha karsi.
B: If you hate us Pakistanis so much, why do you come to Gupshup that primarily caters to Pakistani’s (the reason I say that is that it has a forum on Pakistan and not afghan or india). Next time your afghan warlord brothers start fighting
:kaboom: 
again (which will be pretty soon, since you afghans have a bug up your b*&ts and have been doing it since God invented Mankind) go to Iran or some other country as a refugee and stay away from Pakistan. As the name implies Pakistan means clean (pak), so keep your filth to the west of us, or we’ll unleash Antiobl and his cohorts.
hmm.. a lot of "gollaa barood" from both sides.....but it is ok so far we express ourselves in a civilized manner........at least i learnt a lot about afghans inside politics.....
SSS
Paki this, Paki that, Mullah this, Mullah that, Urdu this, Urdu that.
Come on now, even Forest Gump could put two sentences together better than you did.
In one breath you claim to be a Pakistani and in another a Pashtun charity worker from Afghanistan who in fact hates Paksitan and Pakistanis. Even though you started off by being a Pakistani, but then evolved as an Afghanistani?! Make your mind up you lying prat!
Secondly, the hard factual response you got from me was gathered via Western Democratic sources in English from contemporary orientalists, journalists and Afghani people who have actually witnessed most of the atrocities. Us being Pakistani Muslims, living with Afganis in our homeland, and next door to Afghanistan, are in a better position to determine the reality on the ground than some Pakistani come Afganistani come Pashtun wannabe living in the States like you. Yes, your rhetoric and pro USA bulls... gives it away I'm afraid.
If you believe this source of info to be Urdu speaking Paki Mullah Newspapers such as Jhang, then you must be as illiterate and stupid as you sound. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's your own people saying what I'm saying.
Who you gonna blame now!
I know, blame Fidel Castro. He looks like a Paki with a beard!
ppl Karzi won right :knofused: uffffffffffff if he won i sware i will go to Afghanistan today 
I personally find Safire’s views to be very conservative, he comes across as a staunch republican, a neo con and zionist, but doing justice to this thread heres what was published today. Now before the golla barood starts (as PD so eloquently put it), please remember this is an op-ed merely an opinion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/opinion/27safire.html
The Best Political News of 2004
By WILLIAM SAFIRE
Published: October 27, 2004
WASHINGTON — Good news is no news. That’s why the most historic development of this news-drenched year has not been on front pages and hasn’t led TV newscasts.
Against all dire predictions and threats from terrorists, Afghanistan - breeding ground of Al Qaeda under the medieval rule of Taliban fundamentalists - has just held the first presidential election in its bloodstained history.
The winner was Hamid Karzai, 46, a politician of the majority Pashtuns, who emerged with 55 percent of the eight million votes cast. The runner-up, Yunus Qanooni, received 1.2 million votes; after grumbling about a few hundred stuffed ballot boxes, Mr. Qanooni, a hero of the minority Tajik population, yesterday conceded Karzai’s victory.
A bigger winner was the Afghan people. Their men - fierce nationalists who used U.S. munitions to humiliate the Red Army, thereby hastening the demise of the Soviet Union - had fallen victim to regional dissension and Taliban fanatics supported by Arab terrorists. Their women were hidden at home and treated like slaves. Now, thanks to the U.S.-led intervention and their own willingness to fight for freedom, Afghans lined up to vote in the first presidential election in that nation’s history.
The biggest winner of this unfettering event is the cause of democracy in the world, and especially in this region, which much of the West assumed was too culturally backward to express a longing for freedom.
We should not be so wrapped up in our own political campaign to fail to recognize the power of this message: if the loosely connected Afghan tribes can do majority rule and minority respect, so could the more literate Iraqis, numerous Egyptians, rich Saudis and misled Palestinians.
American and British Wilsonian idealists can hold their heads high today; the defeatists who presume to call themselves realists were defeated.
It came about, first, because American power - and our vengeful will to do justice after 9/11 - made it possible. Our long-range and naval air power and Special Operations forces provided decisive backing to the indigenous Tajik Northern Alliance resistance. With prodigious economic and political pressure, U.S. diplomats induced Pakistan to double-cross its Taliban ally and join our war on the terrorist haven.
It came about, second, because we had a trio of Afghan-Americans in the diaspora who could step into the transition without appearing to be occupiers: the neocon Zalmay Khalilzad became our ambassador in Kabul, joined by Ashraf Ghani of Johns Hopkins University as minister of finance and Ali Ahmed Jalali of the Voice of America as interior minister.
Charles Fairbanks Jr. notes in the current Weekly Standard that all three will have to bail out as local Afghans take full charge, but nation-building requires talented emissaries who speak the language and relate to the people.
As those who believe that democracy stands no chance in Iraq are quick to point out, Afghan progress also came about because we brought along NATO allies girded with a U.N. blessing. There is no denying this has played an important part in success so far, though not the central part.
More of the credit should go to President Bush’s shrewd choice of a leader who turned out to be Afghanistan’s choice this week. Karzai is one gutsy, deft and appealing politician. With his appointments and parceling out of U.S. aid, for the past three years he has split the ethnic opposition, undercut the most dangerous warlord and built a coalition that ran a winning campaign.
The crucial moment came early, I’m informed, as he was juggling political plums to create a governing coalition, when a group of tribal elders told him bluntly: “If you have the U.S. behind you, we’re behind you; otherwise, no.” We were there for him; now he’s there for democracy, and we should invest strongly in his nation’s growth.
A nascent republic needs its Ataturk, its Nehru, its Adenauer. With his overwhelming election mandate, the shyly charismatic Karzai can better combat the corrupting power of the poppy growers, and then turn to the next stage in building a democracy: electing a parliament.
The embodiment of this year’s good news is an optimist. I asked him recently when he expected Osama bin Laden to be caught. He replied, “You can’t be a fugitive forever.”
Karzai is an Amreekan tota, It’s funny though Saddam Hussein used to get 99% of the vote everytime he held elections. What can I say people loved him. Hosni Mubarak wins all the time, Our General Sahab wins them too, all courtesy of the second biggest democracy in the world. Lets place bets the next Iraqi president is … you got it Allawi.
I :love: democracy :biggthumb, the tribe has spoken. Let the war games begin :kaboom:
"Sooray:At least the Iraqis are putting up some sort of resistance against the American occupying forces, But Afghanis you people have no integrity, No self respect…Damn….Oprah winfrey could rule you lot…"
"Most of Afghanis have integrity, but unfortunately there are plenty of people like SSS who have sold there country to their American lords."
Yes, how much better and noble for the Afghans to destroy each other for another 25 years! Dang, progress happens in the face of those wishing chaos, and you guys wish nothing but ill on your brothers.
What you guys don't seem to believe is that the vote for Karzai represented the will of the Afghan people. Not some warlord or Mullah telling them what to do. The Afghan people don't want the US. They want peace, security, prosperity, reconstruction, food, honest jobs. Things they have not had for 25 years. If it is the US that enables this they are smart enough not to look a gift horse in the mouth.
People stood in line to vote for hours. When shot at with an RPG, the reformed the line to continue to vote. They turned out in record numbers, worked the polls at great personal risk. Progress was made without a gun.
How noble of you to condemn their success, while living comfortably in the west. Hypocrites.
^:jazak:
and like you are dodging bullets in caves of Afghanistan. What success you are talking about? By holding staged elections and fooling millions of poor Afghanis that they are voting for right guy?
Verizon you need to translate 
for uncle OG.