Afghanistan Elections

A story almost to funny to beleive that it is the Guardian printing it! :eek:

‘God forbid a success story’

US political blogger Glenn Reynolds says the media are doing their best to ignore the implication of elections elsewhere: that George Bush may have been doing something right

Thursday October 14, 2004

The photo above shows Afghan men waiting in line to vote. John Tammes, the reader and US army major who took it, was kind enough to email it to me and give me permission to use it.
Mr Tammes writes: “These men are waiting to vote in Dasht-e Robat (Parwan province). They were very good natured about waiting and they seemed to be proud of what they were doing.”

So they should have been: despite threats of death and destruction from the remnants of the Taliban and al-Qaida as well as many media commentators, they had turned out to vote. The election may not have been perfect - the UN apparently needs a better ink supplier - but international monitors pronounced it fair.

As a result, it is getting rather little attention in the western media - because if Afghanistan is obviously not the “quagmire” people have been calling it for three years, Bush must have been doing something right. That raises the troubling possibility that he might know what he is doing elsewhere, a notion that must not be entertained - if at all - until after the US elections.

The Afghan elections are not the only ones that matter for Bush this week. Australia’s John Howard, along with Tony Blair one of Bush’s strongest supporters, won what Australia’s The Age called a “thumping victory” over an opponent who had pledged to withdraw from the Iraq coalition, as Spain has.

Howard’s victory was big, and now antiwar forces have been reduced to claiming that the election had nothing to do with Iraq really. (Just compare these New York Times treatments: “War plays a role in elections in Australia” (pre-election) and take (post), relegating Iraq to the background.

The election was really about the economy, you see. In part no doubt it was - but what would it have been about had Howard lost? I think I know.

Like the Afghan elections, the benefit for Bush is largely negative but still very real: had those elections gone badly, there would have been renewed “quagmire” talk and claims that the Bush administration was incompetent; had Howard lost many of those now spinning the poll as an economic test would be holding it up as evidence of Bush’s unpopularity, the disastrousness of the Iraq war and so on.

**Instead, the US press is doing its considerable best to ignore these developments or to explain them away. **

Reporting from Kabul on the “prevailing attitude”, Scott Norvell quotes a regrettably typical comment from an American reporter in this part of the world. “At least it’s news,” the journalist said of the Afghan election scuffle over the weekend. “Otherwise this is just a success story.” God forbid

But that is what it was: a success, no matter how hard the international media tried to spin it. There were no car bombs raining body parts all over the polling stations; there were no last-minute assassinations; there were no drive-by shootings.

The best they could come up with for “news” was grumbling from hopelessly trailing opposition candidates about washable ink and threats of a boycott. The media’s disappointment was palpable.

I hope for more such disappointments in the future, for while Bush is the winner in these events, he is not the only one.

Mr Tammes emailed me last week after the opening day of an Afghan girls’ school. He wrote: "What better way to get ready for the historic presidential election here than to … open a girls’ school.

"The people here are interested in the election, and all have told us how wonderfully different it is to be involved in choosing a leader.

“However, security concerns regarding the election and such will not get in the way of their fierce determination to provide a better life for their kids - not by one day. School repair or construction is the number one request for assistance we get. And now these girls will get schooling, the same as the boys.”

That represents quite a change from three years ago, doesn’t it? Strange that it gets so little attention. The Kerry campaign no doubt hopes that this condition will persist for a few more weeks at least.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by skhan: *
Yep, personal attacks when your argument gets thrown back in your face. I expected nothing more from the likes of you. All talk no substance. This discussion is over.
[/QUOTE]

Plenty O' substance. You suggest life would be better for the average Afghan if that country were to be liberated by the Taliban.

"Looks like we need the Taliban back for some real liberation!"

Now I'm gonna lay some "substance" on you, panty waist.

Criticism of what the U.S. has enabled the average Afghan to now do-vote for the people who will lead them-is a cynical, selfish and terribly unproductive activity. You would be more credible if you thoughtfully criticized the methods, the justifiability and cost to the Afghan people of this conflict and tried to examine how this fits into the historical context of violence and instability of that country. How do you think the average Afghan feels about what is happening. Do they want the Taliban back in power as much as you do? Does the answer to that question even matter to you?

So there is plenty of substance implied in my previous post.

19 year old college students with an anti-American outlook, who selfishly enjoy and suckle at the teat of the mother they otherwise spit upon, show themselves as people of poor character motivated only by selfishness. In this case you're feeding your ego-
your selfish need to reinforce your notion that America is the root of only bad things.
A reasonable examination of what's happening in Afghanistan is not really what's behind your posts. So I think that since you are a safely ensconced student in Missouri, presumably enjoying so much of what is good in America while simultaneoulsy denying anything good for Afghanistan is very germane and "substantive" if one is to form an opinion about your posts vis a vis Afghanistan.

Do some beer bongs, play some Ultimate....chill. Now is not the time to trouble yourself with troublesome things like geopolitics. It's no fun anyhow.

Not surprisingly you continue to bask in your ignorance. After all you are an American. THe situation in Afghanistan are worse for Afghanis, in terms of law and order and women’s rights. Being allowed to vote for an American puppet is nothing but legalizing debauchery, far from your ridiculous claims of what’s “best for the people”. You talk as if you’re an Afghan, yet you have never ventured outside your trailer park.

A word of advice: watch your mouth when you talk to foreign students, because for one, we are much smarter than you will ever be and most importantly, we fund your antics in other countries.

As you wallow in thought of trying to post another pathetic response, save yourself the humiliaton and gain some knowledge instead:

http://afr.com/articles/2004/10/15/1097784010625.html

Taliban were a bunch of sadistic barbarians programmed to carry out orders for the state of Qoom-e-Pak for it self interests in the region. To say that the United States gave a two jack about how Taliban were treating the Afghan people is the biggest not-so-funny joke gone down in Washington. If the United States really cared they would not only have doomed the Taliban and Al-Qeada but also those who sheltered, nurtured, and financed them both economically and morally. In other words the United States wouldn't be awarding Pakistan in aid packages as it is doing rather it would have been Pakistan doing the paying. There are Osama toys, cds, dvds, vcds, training videos, posters, even shirts being sold all over Pakistan. Osama bin Laden can be found on the back of every rikshaw and truck. He is praised in every Friday prayer, he is the hero of the nation, or should I say OMMAH? In Afghanistan the country was divided on Osama, half was for and have wasn’t, though in Pakistan everyone is FOR, except the military (not entirely).

The US says it doesn’t negotiate with terrorists, they don’t, instead they only aide them so they can create more sophisticated Bin Ladens. Which means in the future Al-Qeada might not have to hijack planes to kill Americans like Ohioguy or Storch, they would only have to press little buttons on a remote control from an apartment complex in Osamabad.

POP Quiz for average Americans, where were majority of the 600+ Al-Qeada members and their high profile leaders caught?

A. Afghanistan
B. The Tribal Belt between the Pakistan Afghanistan border
C. Major Pakistani cities

If you guessed A and B, you are a true average American, but if you guessed C, that would mean that you don't depend on CNN or Fox news. That you actually know your shyt.

God bless Israel! Shaloom to all my peeps!

First of all, I only talk like I live in a trailer park, ya douchebag.

I’m sposed to watch my mouth because foreign students are much smarter than I?
How’s the logic work in this statement?

And you fund my antics?
Kerry’s gonna roll back my tax cut. Looks like I’ll be supplying yet more federal funding to colleges and Unis across America.

My God, poorly behaved, ingracious foreign college students I think should be covered under a new clause in the next version of the Patriot Act. It’s not that you’re so dangerous. I think you should be deported or at least vigorously bitch-slapped based almost solely on the fact that you’re an insufferable, ignorant jackass.

Good day to you, Sir!

Storch

So you actually talk like trailer trash but not live on a park? (your statement not mine).

On a more serious note, it's people like you who actually give rise to the Anti Americanism. Whoop this whoop that, we are the best, we believe the earth is flat!

Afghanistan didn't ask for your help and neither did they want your version of so called democracy. You attacked your own people and demolished the Towers and used Afghanistan as bait. However, only smart university graduates like you could take the bait and blame the Taliban. The bigger the lie, the more confident the Liar must appear.

Your own President says:

Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."

There is a problem with the above statement. There was no live video coverage of the first plane hitting the tower. There couldn't be. Video of that first plane hitting the tower did not surface until days later as it was a French film Director who was filming a documentary at the time and caught the attack on film!

The Taliban for good or worse only ruled their country and people. America on the other hand wants to rule every country and every people with it's own version of filth and sickness they call freedom. Not only have you isolated yourselves, but you've also made the world a far dangerous place to live with your version of freedom and democracy than before.

As we're on the subject of freedom and democracy, can you please enlighten us as to what democracy you have implemented and what freedom you have bought into the world that wasn't already here in Islam. And we're not talking about Budweiser or something here....

This should be entertaining.

With elections held after I believe about six years! Not a bad record in Afghanistan, then!

Those who can’t do complain and find fault with those who do what they can’t or are unwilling to do!

As always…:rolleyes:

:k:

I wouldn’t waste much time on these clowns. They can only comprehend so much. All their statements are based on Fox News and after a really short while they run out material to regurgitate. When in any debate they are totally in incapable of any form of independent thinking or deductive logic. Which is why they need us foreign students! :hehe: Rather, they continue with one single minded track which has been spoon fed to them so lovingly by the Bush Admin.

skhan, you can talk to them only in their language. They are not articulate enough to argue with you in a proper manner; therefore they jump to personal attacks. So let me repeat what I said earlier. I hate to do that but there is the only way you can talk to them.
** We don’t need your so called democracy. You can take that democracy and stick it you know where. You are the most hated nation in the word because of your stubbornness and arrogance. You guys think that your sh!t does not stink. A time will come when you will be left alone in this world by creating enemies. Every nation has seen their rise and fall. It’s your time now. Because majority of you guys are not smart enough to fill those positions in school and work you need us the foreigners. America is what it is because of very smart decisions made by your founding fathers. Unfortunately those great leaders are not among us anymore. What is left are arrogant sons of b****** like you. **
Hate to say all this but sometimes you arrogant B******s need a harsh dose of reality.

Agent Smith

Be careful now. The clientelle you are refering to, might think you are praising them and interperate it as a compliment!

I'm gonna have a couple a barley pops and consider responding to you kiddies. I might, I might not. In the meantime, please remember that the blind and uncritical arrogance resides in you, as you have made it plain with your blanket judgements of Americans. I think my arrogance is a bit different in that it's not particulary directed at an entire culture per se, unless you consider some of the dumb****s in this thread collectively as a "culture".

:smokin2:

:jhanda:

I think what I will do is start another thread and stop the insults for now. It'll be something like:

"On Anti-Americanism"

My thesis is that it's current form is largely a self-perpetuating social pathology both in America and abroad. I have never contended that America doesn't have anything to answer for presently or historically, but that the rise in anti-Americanism is out of proportion with legitimate and tangible reasons one would harbor profoundly negative feelings about America. I'm going to do a little looking around for some info in support of my thesis and some that contradicts it. Maybe it will be a little more illuminating than the speculation over whether or not I reside in a trailer or what news outlets I use. Sorry about the harsh words, fellows, but I just think it's absurd to wish for the Taliban to be back in power and to utterly deny that something positive is happening with the elections.

I look forward to reading it. :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Agent Smith

Be careful now. The clientelle you are refering to, might think you are praising them and interperate it as a compliment!
[/QUOTE]

Yaar sholay, woh kehtay hain na kai "laaton kai bhoot haathon say nahin maantay". In khabeeson say isitarhaan baat ki jasakti hai.

Agent Smith

I hear you.

Storch

...and that positiveness in Afghanistan is?????????

......... take your time.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by storch: *
......the rise in anti-Americanism is out of proportion with legitimate and tangible reasons one would harbor profoundly negative feelings about America. ....
[/QUOTE]

Commie lefti hate has always been there. Mix in there a bit of Mullahtic noise and you have a conundrum roiling up against the "Great Satan".

The rise in the info-war is for one simple reason: money. The commie lefties are without the steady supply of Soviet money, while Mullahs are not getting any from CIA, and they are all vevy vevy hungvy.

I'd just ignore the noise and continue rebuilding this world while pusing the terrorists towards the middle of the big ocean.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *...and that positiveness in Afghanistan is?????????
[/QUOTE]

Why let me tell you.

Afghanistan is no more under the control of a puppet jihadi regime. It is no more under the rule of sadistic perverted Mullahs. Afghanistan has seen more reconstruction in the past 3 years then 9 years under the Taliban. Afghanistan has seen an influx of its children return, those who have been brought up in the West and who will bring a tremendous amount of experience to the region. In Afghanistan the civil war has been stopped, what you have now is a rag tag group of 20 to 30 people trying to sbatoge what little good that is being reconstructed in that country. Girls can go to school, women can work, men can dress the way they want and just like their Muslim brothers across the border, they can now enjoy a bollywood flick if they wish to.

The problem with Pakistanis like you is that you wish Taliban type of regime on Afghanistan though when it comes to your own nation you keep shut. You are not Afghans, and only Afghans can tell you what good or bad has been brought to their nation. Many Afghans are happy, we all saw that by the lines of lines and lines and lines of Afghans lined up to vote last week. Mullah Omar and his Taliban have been given the finger by the Afghan people. No one liked them and their rule, the only people that supported them were Pakhtuns, who were encouraged by their Pakistani counterparts that if they show support for the Taliban Pakistan will do everything in their power to hand the country to the Pakhtuns. So if that meant supporting a sadistic barbaric regime of thugs and terrorists, then it was. With the help of Pakistan armed forces, Taliban roled up in Afghanistan killing thousands or Hazaras, Uzbeks, and Tajiks. We saw many Pakistani generals even take part in Afghanistan military parade in the early 1999 and 1998, with the help of Pathan dogs like Hameed Gul, this parasite was installed in Afghanistan.

What is the positive side of all of this? AFGHANISTAN is FREE. FREE from Pakistan, Saudi, Iran etc. etc. It will remain like this for years to come because that is now in the best interest of the United States of America.

Now since I know the nature of you Mullahs, you are going to bring in all the haram and halal and what is Islamic and not, well I have an answer for that as well. You can take all of that and shove it up where it belongs. When you can sit quite when your own nation is butchering Muslims especially Taliban lovers in Waziristan, while getting aid from the big Satan, then you need to not bark in the case of Afghanistan when it is receiving support from the same Satan.

As Pakistanis you have no right to even utter a word about Palestine, Kashmir or Afghanistan. Your country is no different then Israel or the US. All three are butchering, leveling, and harassing Muslims in the name of terror. And frankly, majority of Afghans don’t mind what is happening in Waziristan, they are glad to see Pakistan killing its own little Jihadi products. It must be hard, oh well.

Keep your sympathetic Islamic holiness and apply first to your own nation. If you want to know what are the big positive changes in Afghanistan. Ask an Afghan.

In your own country you demolish their homes, you arrest their babies, but you promote their regime and control in Afghanistan?

Like I said, the root of terror is MAToostan, the free world needs to take care of MAToostan other wise no Kashmiri or Afghan will live free.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by skhan: *
I look forward to reading it. :)
[/QUOTE]

I've been very busy with an 8 month old, 3 and 6 yr olds solo for the weekend. This is not a very time-sensitive subject, however, so I'll get to it in due time.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Agent Smith

I hear you.

Storch

...and that positiveness in Afghanistan is?????????

......... take your time.
[/QUOTE]

Truly, this is such an absurd question. And I think SSS put together a nice litany of some of the undeniable positives. Refute them. And to respond to your earlier post about how I'm the type that creates anti-Americanism.

You've claimed that our government killed 3,000 of our own citizens. Beyond the despicable implications of this hateful and outrageous claim, you further insult us by stating that we are collectively too stupid to realize it.

Do you think perhaps that the attitude reflected in your statements could foster some anti-Islamic or anti-Pakistani sentiment? Further, it's audacious that you would expect me or any other American to give a rat's ass about losing your respect, since it's clear that you haven't the capacity to return it under any circumstances.