Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

you statement is exactly equal to as below one

tipu sultan is an indian agent and i.s.i. is a wing of RAW operating in pakistan and very soon it will finish azhar masood and jaish e mohammad .

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

you seem to be quite simple and innocent gentleman if you believe it
i have seen him he is an international terrorists after osama bin laden now wanted by c.i.a. why don't pakistan try him for his terror activities , was he involved in largescale terror bombings ? g.h.q. attack?,latest murder of shias? a small time thief and gunda being produced as terrorist trained in india? cant you see behind it ? it was a foolish act of some anti muhazir and ant m.q.m. police officer to malign m.q.m.but failed .no doubt why pakistan is facing problems ? because of such pathetic attitude of blaming others for all it's internal and external problems.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

I am not sure that why he is allowed to operate, but there is not much doubt that he was planted by RAW in my mind and there are good reasons for that.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

@TIPUSULTAN - the part of your response I have quoted here is the key point and cannot be glossed over. Contrary to what you are saying, actually everyone knows and have said so, that ISI is hand in glove with the terrorists; The whole aspect of not letting Pakistan know about the raid in abbotabad was so that ISI does not leak out info to OBL/Al Qaeda. In the Mumbai attack case, it was proven in the US court that ISI officers were driving the raid!

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

having tha capacity to do something and threatening to do it are two different things.

Further, having a capacity but not letting Pakistan know about it is counter productive, so that statement had to be made.

Taking it as 'intent' is a leap.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

Who is everyone?

It is stupid or at best misleading on your part, as there is no court ruling in US against ISI, there was privet suit in the US court where plaintiff accused ISI regarding this but there is no judgement at all?

Operation against OBL has nothing to do with mumabi attack so it is irrelevant to current discussion.

Another thing

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

Everyone who reads a newspaper and thinks objectively. Governments have said it, papers have said, even parts of Pakistan have grudgingly admitted it. If you are expecting a US cour case for this it is not going to happen.

Operation OBL - I cited that because you had raised Al Qaeda in your earlier question/post. Obviously OBL is Al Qaeda

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

[QUOTE]
It is stupid or at best misleading on your part, as there is no court ruling in US against ISI, there was privet suit in the US court where plaintiff accused ISI regarding this but there is no judgement at all?
[/QUOTE]

does any u.s. court have any power to prosecute i.s.i.

[QUOTE]
Operation against OBL has nothing to do with mumabi attack so it is irrelevant to current discussion.
[/QUOTE]

my dear it is being stated that untrustworthiness , clandestine nature and activitie of I.S.I. lead to the osama bin operation kept strictly secret from pakistan, bombay 26/11 terror attack was actively guided and operated by ISI, this information and details were being given by america when bombay attack was underway ,so they knew who supports terrorists.from experiance they know it and latest events in afghanistan has opened the naqab from the face of ISI america is announcing in full volume .

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First of all, US action not informing OBL operation, only reflect their concern about ISI commitment to war on terror.

There was not allegation that he was sheltered by ISI.

By the way spycraft itself business of deception, all spy agencies deceive each other to achieve their goals, it is same of ISI, RAW oe CIA.

Again there is no conclusive evidence provided that ISI is involve in recent events, just by a some US general say so does not amount to conclusive evidence.

In any case Pakistan army and ISI has to maintain delicate ballance between our interests and US interests, this all allegation started not because of their complicity with enemy but due to Pakistan Army's refusal to extend operation to south waziristan.

By the way Pakistan Army has lost more then 3000 Jawans and officers including a Lt. General, ISI which is a branch of Pakistan Army, and it is not possible for them to support same people involve in killing it's own people.

There are 3 categories:-
1) Alqaida
2) Pakistani Taliban
3) Taliban or other resistance groups in Afghanistan.

Pakistan army or ISI, fully committed with war with AlQaida and Pakistani Taliban, but apparently they did not move against 3rd, (there is no active support though).

Due to ongoing operations against Taliban there is huge problem of displaced people, opening new front would mean more people's displaced and army does nor have resources to provide them for full duration of operation.

Pakistan army already deployed more then 200K troops, opening new front means moving troops from borders with india thus weakening our defenses. Which army is unwilling to compromise.

In any case whether US or Indian like it or not the writing is already on the wall, true to it's history US already planning to cut and lose, and everyone else has to look at plan B TI prepare for what happen then.

It is in the best interest of Pakistan not to burn the bridges with whichever force likely to take over beyond repair.

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Here u go, you are the one claiming that ISI found guilty in US courts.

So your that argument is as good as dead.

Thanks

Sorry it was BindazChakker not u.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

Right there you have completely contradisted yourself.

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Right there you have completely contradisted yourself.
[/QUOTE]

Actually it is you are faithfully following US (because it might support you case to malign Pakistan), there is no contradiction on my part. It is very clear having some sort of doubts (which US might have) would not amount to conclusive evidence against ISI.

The nature of our relation is very complex, both parties do not trust each other, and in the meantime trying to make use each other at fullest.

The trust deficit certainly mean both are holding back information, that would not make either one guilty.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

**
[QUOTE]
First of all, US action not informing OBL operation, only reflect their concern about ISI commitment to war on terror.
/QUOTE]**

tipu sultan sir , they were not only concerned , they simply did not trust the I.S.I. nor do they trust even today . latest events in afghanistan prove it.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

the house in which O.B.L. lived was once a safe house of I.S.I. , you can understand and must be knowing and it is a general knowledge how and who keeps safe houses purticularly a national security agency which is so much important at international levels.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B


Could you Please quote me an authentic source of this claim? Even US didn't come with ludicrous claim so far my be your contact in RAW might know more.

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Here we agree that US do not trust ISI, but that does not make them directly involve in the Afghan operations.

This is clear case, both parties have slightly diffrent agenda.

All US want a semblance of victory, before they could get out from Afghanistan, they do not care what would happen afterward.

But for us we need to keep an eye on what might happen once US leave, even if that means keeping some channel open with so called enemy just in case they would came into power in post US Afghanistan.

That's the place we have occasion tensions, and we need to learn to live with it.

In fact India is also trying to make a space for itself in post US era, but fortunately for them they are hatching themselves with same groups who r now critical part of US policy, that way India and US are on same page.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

actually i learnt it on gupshup forum’s dicussions during abbotabad operations ,if you go through older postings you will find it , you can find this news on google search but i am giving you one link from gulf news

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

What a stupid thing to say, this house has been raided twice by ISI in last 5 years... i wonder what kind of agency raids its own premises and then tell media about it...are you for real or RAW and Indian News Channel is your only source of Information???

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Again would this news considered authenticated?

Even US didn't claimed that.

Anyway in this whole discussion you didn't reply a single thing I said all you have in with some sort of stupid unsubstantiated stories to malign Pakistan and ISI.

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Re: Afghan endgame: As Americans retreat, India needs plan B

so I.S.I. raided this house twice in last 5 years and was unable to find a man named osama bin laden who was living there from the last 5 years . you must have heard the osama bin laden was killed here by americans , neighbours testified that this family was living there from the last five years. now it is up to you what you believe go with that.