Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
Ghaznavi and Ghauri were invaders (even to Pashtuns as well), no need to glorify looters. Go read up some history kid.
A person who doesn't have a history of his own try to steal it from others.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
Pakistan – Minus the military’s induction, there would have been no reaction to the events across the border, just as the war of the 1980s did not have any impact on the region.
Well, in the 1980s, you guys pumped resources in destabilising Afghanistan. With uncle Sam on your side, the Russians were in no position to hit you. So, your nefarious activities went unchecked. Hence the impact was less obvious. You cannot say there was no impact. Refugees came in and became a fertile ground for radicalisation later on (but you still benefitted from it, in the short term, as you diverted some into Kashmir). Drugs and guns became part of the culture – the effects are so visible now.
This time, you guys tried to be too smart (or were reckless) given that Uncle Sam was not on your side. So, you tried to play the old game hoping to get advantage by sacrificing the lives, peace, and happiness of the pakhtoons. The rules of the games were changed and so were the players.
You gatecrashed into what you thought was a fancy dress party. You have now realised that only you were dressed as a joker and the others in suits. Everyone is looking at you and it isn’t comfortable – is it? !!!
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan’s options
The seeds of insurgency – The Express Tribune
Source should be mentioned. Otherwise, it appears that its written by you.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
So if Hindus's were not killing you, then why did a person called Jinnah (gadar-e-hind) created pakitan.
Jinnah created Pakistan because it was obvious that in a united, democratic India, Muslims would be dominated by Hindus through a tyranny of the majority.
You see the result today in modern India where many studies constantly show how Muslims are disadvantaged in many ways.
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Though I think that you are right when you say that Pakistan tried to build up the Taliban as nothing but a means of controlling the Afghans. It was a really badly thought out response to the collapse in support for Gulbuddin Hekmatyr, who until the mid 1990s was Pakistan's puppet in Afghanistan.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
Jinnah created Pakistan because it was obvious that in a united, democratic India, Muslims would be dominated by Hindus through a tyranny of the majority.
You see the result today in modern India where many studies constantly show how Muslims are disadvantaged in many ways.
==================
Though I think that you are right when you say that Pakistan tried to build up the Taliban as nothing but a means of controlling the Afghans. It was a really badly thought out response to the collapse in support for Gulbuddin Hekmatyr, who until the mid 1990s was Pakistan's puppet in Afghanistan.
How do people in Pakistan treat each others? Punjab is looting KPK and Balochistan and in 1971 they use to call Bengalies names. IDPs from FATA are not allowed in Punjab and Sindh, but when it comes to India these same people are used to fight the indians, why should a pakhtoon sacrifies its self for pakistan, what does it get in return, I know just a hand on his shoulder. You can have your punjab youth festival with a kafir but will rather send bombs to pakhtoon areas in Afghanistan.
In India we have 200 million muslim+180 in pakistan+160 in bengaldish= that is all together around 600 million muslims, if pakistan was not created then muslims would make 35% to 40% of india's population. Since the creation of pakistan, who has killed more muslims Pakistan or India. Who has handed over muslims to non-muslims countries india or pakistan. who has harmed another muslim country india or pakistan.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
In India we have 200 million muslim+180 in pakistan+160 in bengaldish= that is all together around 600 million muslims, if pakistan was not created then muslims would make 35% to 40% of india's population. Since the creation of pakistan, who has killed more muslims Pakistan or India. Who has handed over muslims to non-muslims countries india or pakistan. who has harmed another muslim country india or pakistan.
No doubt Muslims have killed more Muslims than anyone else. But had Pakistan not come into being and it would have been 40% Muslims against 60% Hindus, the carnage would have been even grimmer.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
No doubt Muslims have killed more Muslims than anyone else. But had Pakistan not come into being and it would have been 40% Muslims against 60% Hindus, the carnage would have been even grimmer.
you are talking of** would** and could situation...... look at the reality
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
you are talking of** would** and could situation...... look at the reality
Sri Lanka's civil war is what comes to mind as what would be avoided through a Partition.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
... if pakistan was not created then muslims would make 35% to 40% of india's population. ....
...... But had Pakistan not come into being and it would have been 40% Muslims against 60% Hindus, the carnage would have been even grimmer.
you are talking of** would** and could situation...... look at the reality
Who started it :P
About Afghan civil war... let them fight it out and take back the refugees as well please.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
Who started it :P
About Afghan civil war... let them fight it out and take back the refugees as well please.
Well I don't think there is going to be a civil war in Afghanistan. Pakistan is going through multiple problems to a mention a few.
- Active armed struggle for the independence of Balochistan
- Ethnic hatred and violence across the country against the pakhtoons and balochs
- Targeted killing of punjabies especially in Balochistan
- Karachi violence and other urban warfare
- Not to forget the TTP movement and its ambition to overrun Islamabad
- Shia-Sunni violence
- Targeting of the Hazara's in Quetta
- Pakistan the Hub of extremism to citizens of the world ranging from China, Middle East and Europe
You cannot deny the above reality, so stop hoping for a civil war in Afghanistan. Compared to the above Afghanistan has less problems then Pakistan so the scenario might be different rather than a civil in Afghanistan, Pakistan is already in a Civil War. That is why Pakistanis are seeking asylum in Europe and USA.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
. That is why Pakistanis are seeking asylum in Europe and USA.
They are claiming, but generally not getting it. I used to work at a charity in London that dealt with Asylum seekers and it was very rare for Pakistanis to be granted asylum. The main exception was Ahmadies, who are generally able to easily prove that they face persecution where the authorities are unwilling to protect them.
People who claim that they are being threatened by militants or criminal gangs get their asylum requests rejected because they get told that they should move to a different part of Pakistan; those who claim political persecution get rejected because Western governments deny that it takes place in pakistan.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
.....You cannot deny the above reality, so stop hoping for a civil war in Afghanistan. Compared to the above Afghanistan has less problems then Pakistan so the scenario might be different rather than a civil in Afghanistan, Pakistan is already in a Civil War. That is why Pakistanis are seeking asylum in Europe and USA.
I am not 'hoping'. I just said in case there is one, Pakistan should keep out of it.
If Afghanistan has less problems, how come there are millions of Afghan refugees in Pakistan? Shouldn't there be Pakistani refugees in Afghanistan?
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
If Afghanistan has less problems, how come there are millions of Afghan refugees in Pakistan? Shouldn't there be Pakistani refugees in Afghanistan?
I think you are trying to reason with someone living in complete denial... All the best.....
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
I think you are trying to reason with someone living in complete denial... All the best.....
Those Afghan refugees that live in Pakistan are reluctant to go to Afghanistan because they have settled themselves in Pakistan. They are used to Pakistan the same way Pakistanis are settled in UK over a long period of time. It is not about refugees going back it is rather that they are settled in Pakistan and feel comfortable. Afghanistan in 2001 was not the same as Germany in 1945. Why should the west or USA help Afghanistan in first place. What do Afghans have in common with Americans. Do they share the same language, religion, race. It is rather us (pakistan) that is closer to Afghanistan. We share the same religion and race as well but instead of us having good relations some people in ISI and Army came up with a destructive idea of strategic depth and we sabotaged the peace process back in the 1990s.
How would you feel towards any country in 10-15 years time if they keep on supporting the TTP and TTP takes over the entire pakistan and kills people on the name of punjabi, language, race, sect etc... and destroys all the countries infrastructure. You wish yourself a comfortable and western type of life style but would rather want to see an extremist Afghanistan that you can potentially use it against India. Well Afghans are not stupid to help Pakistan in its fight against the Indians they have got nothing to gain from it.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
Those Afghan refugees that live in Pakistan are reluctant to go to Afghanistan because they have settled themselves in Pakistan. They are used to Pakistan the same way Pakistanis are settled in UK over a long period of time. It is not about refugees going back it is rather that they are settled in Pakistan and feel comfortable. Afghanistan in 2001 was not the same as Germany in 1945. Why should the west or USA help Afghanistan in first place. What do Afghans have in common with Americans. Do they share the same language, religion, race. It is rather us (pakistan) that is closer to Afghanistan. We share the same religion and race as well but instead of us having good relations some people in ISI and Army came up with a destructive idea of strategic depth and we sabotaged the peace process back in the 1990s.
How would you feel towards any country in 10-15 years time if they keep on supporting the TTP and TTP takes over the entire pakistan and kills people on the name of punjabi, language, race, sect etc... and destroys all the countries infrastructure. You wish yourself a comfortable and western type of life style but would rather want to see an extremist Afghanistan that you can potentially use it against India. Well Afghans are not stupid to help Pakistan in its fight against the Indians they have got nothing to gain from it.
Refugees are not economic migrants. They should be sent back. All refugees should go back. Period. Don't care if they are settled or they feel comfortable. They aren't Pakistani so I don't care about their comfort. After all they came in illegally and we should do exactly what the US and UK does with Illegal immigrants. Send them back.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
Afghans come to pakitan illegally, use our resources, then go abroad. And then whine and ***** about Pakistan.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
... It is not about refugees going back it is rather that they are settled in Pakistan and feel comfortable....
I thought you said Punjabies have made life miserable for Pushtoons et al in Pakistan and that Pakistan is in a state of civil war and things are worse than Afghanistan. Now you are saying that even the afghan refugees feel comfortable here. Make up your mind plz.
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan’s options
meetha meetha hup hup, kaRwa kaRwa thoo thoo 
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan's options
Well I don't think there is going to be a civil war in Afghanistan. Pakistan is going through multiple problems to a mention a few.
- Active armed struggle for the independence of Balochistan
- Ethnic hatred and violence across the country against the pakhtoons and balochs
- Targeted killing of punjabies especially in Balochistan
- Karachi violence and other urban warfare
- Not to forget the TTP movement and its ambition to overrun Islamabad
- Shia-Sunni violence
- Targeting of the Hazara's in Quetta
- Pakistan the Hub of extremism to citizens of the world ranging from China, Middle East and Europe
You cannot deny the above reality, so stop hoping for a civil war in Afghanistan. Compared to the above Afghanistan has less problems then Pakistan so the scenario might be different rather than a civil in Afghanistan, Pakistan is already in a Civil War. That is why Pakistanis are seeking asylum in Europe and USA.
Are you for one in any way 'hoping' to see Civil War in Pakistan?
Re: Afghan civil war - Pakistan’s options
you telling your self loudly, doesn’t sound good 