Aborting a baby

Re: Aborting a baby

All NATURAL forms of contraception are ok in my opinion or barrier methods...

However, as far as the pill is concerned....please read my post above.....it doesnt PREVENT....it gets rid of the fertilised embryo AFTER the deed is one....its a BIG difference....please do some research on the oral contraceptive pill and you will know what I mean :)

Re: Aborting a baby

^You can take a stricter approach if u want to but the majority opinion in Islam is that contraception is permissable, whether it's azl, condoms or the pill.. I know Zakir Naik and others (esp Wahhabis) take a more hardline approach in regards to this.

Check Sunnipath for the accepted Hanafi rulings, if u think they're too liberal that's down to you..

Re: Aborting a baby

:D lets not bring sects into this too..
its not just Muslims who believe this....on ethical grounds alot of people disagree with it too....

im a Healthcare Professional myself (Pharmacist)....ive spend the past god knows how many years studying drugs and medicines and how they work..im giving you the scientific evidence behind it. I know how the pill works....i know what it does....it PREVENTS implantation....thats one of the ways it works....hence an early form of abortion....its nothing about being liberal or not.

PS. I agree condoms are OK, as well as all other barrier methods and all natural methods of contraception....

Re: Aborting a baby

^ I know I shouldn't bring sects into it but the Hanafi opinion (ie the majority) believes the pill and a few other methods such as the contraceptive patch are also ok. There have been specific fatwas issued regarding this.. My family are all doctors except me and have no objection to the pill and have even written me a prescription for it in the past, tho obviously that doesn't mean it must be Islamically permissable lol. I have an extreme aversion to science and so don't know the ins and outs of how it works exactly but I will be back later to post the relevant references showing the majority opinion on using all the diff methods of birth control..

Re: Aborting a baby

I pretty sure women who are on the pill do not ovulate and hence fertilization never takes place, so there is no embryo. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Re: Aborting a baby

I see what you are saying but do you know what the Islamic ruling is in such a situation?

Re: Aborting a baby

^Yep, I believe thats how the pill works… it prevents ovulation so how would fertilization happen.
I also googled just to make sure and got the answer http://womenshealth.about.com/od/thepill/f/howpillworks.htm

I’m really surprised at LittleFairyPrincess’s statement. LFP… i think you’re confusing an IUCD with a pill.

Re: Aborting a baby

Unless she is referring to the "morning after pill" which either prevent ovulation, prevents implantation or prevents fertilization depending on where the women is in her cycle. BUT if implantation has already taken place the "morning after pill"does not affect it.

Re: Aborting a baby

I think she is talking about the morning after pill and like she pointed out, most of those kind, usually prevents implantation of the fertilized egg.

Re: Aborting a baby

You are right, but you are talking about the contraception-pill, whereas I think she is refering to the emergency-pill.. no?

Re: Aborting a baby

She’s talking about both… contraceptive and morning after pill. Now I’m confused :konfused:

Re: Aborting a baby

I don't know what kind of pharmacist you are but an oral contraceptive pill like Yasmin etc. prevent ovulation! You're confusing this kind of pill with the morning after pill. Contraceptive pills don't prevent implantation! They completely stop ovulation so how can they even cause fertilization????

Re: Aborting a baby

She mentioned both and said she wouldn’t use either..

Anyway here are the full rulings on using contraception:
**
Is contraception permissible? Is it disliked? What is the better way?**

Answered by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani

In the Name of Allah, Most Merciful and Compassionate

May Allah’s peace and blessings be upon His Messenger Muhammad, his folk, companions, and followers

Walaikum assalam wa rahmatullah,

Contraception is permitted. However, it is superior not to engage in contraception without genuine reason or benefit, because the Qur’an and Sunna have encouraged having children, and there is great benefit to the individual and society in raising righteous children. Allama Jad al-Haqq (Allah have mercy on him), the pious late 20th Century Shaykh al-Azhar, wrote in a fatwa dated 1399 AH (1979 CE), that:

  1. Contraception is permitted if the husband and wife agree, as there is nothing in the Qur’an or Sunna to prohibit it; rather, the hadiths and practice of the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) indicate permissibility, and this is confirmed by the words of the jurists across the schools of Islamic law.

  2. It is not permitted to engage in contraception without the agreement of the spouse–for both husband and wife.

Contemporary forms of contraception, whether used by the husband or the wife, are akin to the `azl (ejaculating outside the vagina) mentioned in the hadiths, as is explicitly understood from the words of the jurists of the Hanafi and other schools. Rather, they are superior, more natural, and less harmful.

  1. It is not permitted to use irreversible contraception–such as sterilization.

  2. It is not permitted for there to be state-imposed forcible population planning.

[Summarized from Jad al-Haqq’s fatwa, from Mawsu`at Fatawa Dar al-Ifta’ al-Masriyya]

Other contemporary fuqaha state likewise.

**While some texts indicate that it is somewhat disliked (makruh tanzihan) to do so, this is not what most of the major jurists of the Hanafi school state. **

Even jurists who stated that it is disliked mentioned that if there is a sound reason or benefit to engage in contraception then it is not disliked. **In our times, this would include reasons such as having a manageable family size, when one does not have the support of extended families in raising the children; the desire to give the children the attention, education, and support they need in difficult times; genuine (physical or emotional) health reasons, and so on.
**
However, we understand at the same time that one of the purposes (maqasid) and wisdoms of marriage is to have children, as mentioned by Imam Ghazali in his Ihya’ Ulum al-Din.

The Qur’an and Sunna of the Beloved Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) have encouraged having children. There is great benefit to the individual and society in having children. Not only does having righteous children maintain healthy communities and societies, but it also teaches humanity: few things are more effective in teaching good character, mercy, compassion, and true love as having children does. This is why the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Marry and multiply.” [Abu Dawud and Nasa’i]

**Regarding the Permissibility of Contraception
**
Sayyiduna Jabir ibn Abd Allah (Allah be pleased with him), the notable Companion of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) relates that,

“We used to engage in contraception (`azl) while the Qur’an was being revealed. Had it been something that was interdicted, the Qur’an would have forbidden it.” [Bukhari (5209); Muslim (4220)]

Kasani (Allah have mercy on him) states in Bada’i al-Sana'i (2.334-335),

“It is disliked to engage in contraception (`azl, preventative ejaculation) with one’s wife without her permission. This is because intercourse with ejaculation is the means to having a child, and having a child is her right. By resorting to contraception [without her permission], having a child is prevented, which is akin to being a reason for not fulfilling her right. However, if the contraception was with the wife’s agreement (rida), then it is not disliked. In such a case, she will have willingly forgone her right.”

This is also mentioned by Marghinani in al-Hidaya, and Nasafi in Kanz al-Daqa’iq. Zayla`i confirms this in his commentary on Kanz al-Daqa’iq. Tabyin al-Haqa’iq Sharh Kanz al-Daqa’iq, 6.21]

Ibn Taymiyya (Allah have mercy on him) and others relate that the permissibility of contraception with the wife’s permission is agreed upon by the four schools of Sunni Islam. al-Fatawa al-Kubra, 2.101]

Ibn Nujaym (Allah have mercy on him) says in al-Bahr al-Ra’iq Sharh Kanz al-Daqa’iq,

“The permissibility of contraception (`azl) is the position of the generality of scholars, because of the [abovementioned] hadith in Bukhari…” [3.214]

**Is Contraception Disliked, Though? **

Ibn Nujaym then quotes Ibn al-Humam (Allah have mercy on him), who mentioned in his magnificent commentary on al-Hidaya, Fath al-Qadir, that some scholars of the Hanafi school considered contraception to be permitted yet disliked, while others did not consider it disliked. ibid.]

Mulla Khusro, the great Ottoman master jurist, said in al-Durar, that it is permitted to engage in contraception. He does not state that it is disliked. [1.315] Shurunbulali (Allah have mercy on him) does likewise in his marginal commentary, al-Shurunbulaliyya. In fact, he relates that some scholars permitted it even without permission because of the bad times.

The Fatawa Hindiyya, compiled by some of the greatest jurists of Moghul India under commission from the righteous Sultan Aurangzeb, explicitly negates that it is disliked by stating,

"Contraception is not disliked with the wife’s permission… " [1.315]

This is also what Haskafi relates in al-Durr al-Mukhtar, and is confirmed by the words of Ibn Abidin in his marginal commentary (hashiya), Radd al-Muhtar.

And Allah alone gives success.

Faraz Rabbani

Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4735&CATE=117


Question:
**
Is it permissible to use modern forms of birth control, and when is their use permissible? Is it permissible for one who has a lot of children and fears, for example, that one will not be able to properly care for them? **

Answered by Shaykh Amjad Rasheed

Answer:

There are two kinds of birth control. One kind prevents pregnancy by permanently eliminating the ability to bear children. This kind is not permitted, as the erudite Ibn Hajar clearly states in the Tuhfa (8.241). Men and women are equal in this regard.

As for the means that delay pregnancy rather than eliminating the ability to bear children, there is some detail regarding them. If it is through the practice of withdrawal (coitus interruptus), which is to withdraw the penis before ejaculation so that semen doesn’t enter the vagina, this is permissible, though disliked, according to our school. Similar to this is what is asked about – that being wearing a barrier (e.g. a condom)] over the penis such that semen enters it; this is permissible, but disliked.

Other contemporary and well-known methods of birth control include oral contraceptives and vaginal suppositories. Using such methods is permissible as long as there is no harm in them. As for what is known as the coil (intrauterine device), which is a specific contraption that is placed in the woman’s uterus to prevent pregnancy, modern scholars have differed regarding it. Some exacting scholars, like our shaykh, the erudite Muhammad Al-Khateeb, have declared it forbidden because it involves exposing nakedness without excuse.

Amjad Rasheed

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=3&ID=3949&CATE=335

Re: Aborting a baby

Strange how some people think they seem to know more than someone who is qualified in this field.

There are 2 types of contraceptive pills: Combined oral contraceptive (contains progesterone and oestrogen) and the Progesterone only pill

The combined contraceptive pill works by:

  • preventing ovulation, which is the process of releasing an egg every month.
  • The pill also causes thickening of the mucus at the entrance to the uterus, which is useful for preventing sperm entering the uterus.
  • The lining of the uterus is also thinned to prevent the FERTILISED EGG from implanting into the uterus.

Firstly the pill tries to prevent ovulation...however sometimes it fails to do this....therefore the mucus is also thickened at the entrance of the uterus to prevent sperm from reaching the egg....sometimes this also fails and the egg still gets fertilised. in this case, the lining of the uterus is also thinned to prevent the FERTILISED EGG FROM IMPLANTING INTO THE UTERUS.

Preventing the fertilised egg from implanting into the uterus is a secondary mechanism of action of all progestagen-containing contraceptives and therefore some people believe this to be an early form of abortion.

All contraceptive pills contain progesterone whether its the progesterone only pill (such as Yasmin)...or the combined contraceptive pill (which contains both oestrogen and progesterone)

Here I have included a definition from a website which may make it more easier for you to understand this:

Q. How does the pill really work?

A. There are four ways the pill acts to stop sperm reaching an egg (ovum).

First, the hormones in the pill try to stop an ovum being released from your ovary each month. This is known as the suppression of ovulation. Research has shown that neither the progesterone-only pill nor the combined progesterone-oestrogen formulations always stop ovulation.

Second, all formulations of the pill cause changes to the cervical mucus that your body produces*.* The cervical mucus may become thicker and more difficult for sperm to fertilize an ovum.

Third, all formulations of the pill cause changes to the lining of the womb (properly known as the endometrium). Under the influence of the chemicals in the pill, the lining of the womb doesn’t grow to the proper thickness. You will notice that your periods are lighter when you are on the pill. This is because the lining of the womb has not developed properly. But this change also means that the womb is not in the right stage of development to allow a fertilized egg to attach properly (this attachment process is known as implantation).

Fourth, the pill causes changes to the movement of the Fallopian tubes. This effect may reduce the possibility of the ovum being fertilised.

THEREFORE ALL CONTRACEPTIVE PILLS HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO PREVENT A FERTILISED EGG FROM IMPLANTING INTO THE UTERUS....IN THIS CASE THE EGG AND SPERM HAVE FERTILISED...BUT THE PILL PREVENTS THAT FERTILISED EGG FROM IMPLANTING INTO THE UTERUS.....THIS IS WHY ITS REFERRED TO AS AN EARLY FORM OF ABORTION.

The contraceptive pill has to work in more ways than one......if the pill did not stop the fertilised egg from being implanted into the uterus then it would NOT be 99% effective....

Facts are Facts....but sometimes we like to ignore certain facts to suit our personal circumstances....alternative forms of contraception are available...such as condoms etc....so why use the pill then?

Re: Aborting a baby

An answer to a question someone asked about whether the pill has an abortifacient capacity:

'Conception' refers to the moment at which the sperm penetrates and fertilises the ovum to form a viable zygote. It does not refer to the process of implantation of the newly created human embryo, which is a separate event, occurring about 7-8 day’s after conception. *A woman is pregnant because conception has occurred, not because implantation has occurred. This distinction is important. *

So a woman is Pregnant as soon as the sperm has fertilised the egg.....

At the precise and unique moment of conception, a woman is* 'pregnant'* with "a new individual ". This is an accurate and informed medical description.

To stop conception occurring, that is, to stop sperm and ovum joining, is contraception. Condoms, diaphragms, spermicides, vasectomy and tubal ligation are accurately described as methods of contraception. Obviously any drug or device used after conception has occurred cannot be termed a contraceptive.

The correct term to describe any interference with the pregnancy after conception has occurred is **‘abortifacient’. This is the precise biological description for any drug or device that acts to end a pregnancy once it has begun at conception.

You might be interested to know that many major medical dictionaries have definitions of ‘conception’, ‘pregnancy’ and ‘contraception’ that are the same as those listed above.

It is medically dishonest to break from these definitions. And yet, this is precisely what some scientists have recently started to do. They seek to define pregnancy as beginning with implantation, not fertilization. But as I mentioned ealier, implantation occurs 7-8 days *after *the new human person has come into existence. The pregnancy, and the new human person, are already many days old by the time implantation has occurred.

Therefore, what these scientists are trying to do is get people to think that abortifacient drugs such as the pill are really just contraceptive drugs. Do you see the clever shift in definitions these scientists are trying to make? Redefine when a pregnancy and new human life begins, and you redefine the key characteristic of the drug – how it works!

Obviously many people object to abortifacient drugs because they can cause a loss of human life. Not so many people object to methods of contraception (condoms, diaphrams etc), because these methods prevent new human life being created. Hence, if scientists succeed in convincing people that human life begins after implantation, eventually most people will have no objection to the pill. They will have been tricked into believing that human life had not begun when the pill exerted its anti-implantation effect.

Re: Aborting a baby

PS. im talking about ALL pills.....whether the contraceptive pill or the morning after pill....they all work in similar ways.

The only forms of contraception I think are ok are: barrier methods such as condoms...or any other natural family planning methods.

Re: Aborting a baby

please dont question my pharmacy :halo: Thankyou very much. Yasmin is a progesterone only contraceptive…it works in more ways than one! please do ur research before you question me. Contraceptive pills DO prevent implantation…they work in 3/4 ways.

arrrghh…is there no doctors or pharmacists on this forum apart from me :konfused:

Re: Aborting a baby

LFP, first of all I don't believe anyone was saying they know more than "qualified professional." I for one asked to be corrected! Secondly I honestly did not know that the pill works in more than one way and obviously because I am not a pharmacist but a nutritionist. So thanks for the detailed answer on the mechanism of the pill. I have always read the first two point but didn't know about the thinning of the uterus lining to prevent implantation. As far as what is ok and what isnt, we should leave that to the individual themselves to decide.

Re: Aborting a baby

Personally I believe there is a condition between conception and the active foetus that is worth investigating for Muslim-scientists. This will typically be the stages that involve implantation up until when a separate life form becomes definite.

When it changes from an adage to a parasitic thing. Scholars have both argued against any form contraception even the barrier methods and abortion. However, how many of those scholars are aware of the clinical definition of 'abortion' and how it compares to the Islamic definition which in some cases is 40 days after copulation or 120 after copulation with the assumption that conception takes place on the same day as copulation.

Re: Aborting a baby

yeah not many people are aware of this....I think they should at least have all this information before making a decision. Personally I made the decision to never use any of these so-called "contraceptive" pills....but i think everyone should research into it before making the decision to take it or not. Dont just take the pill because you know of others who do....just because other people are doing something it doesnt make it right....you should definately do your own research whether its in this matter or anything else :)

PS. i was referring to cherryontop who said something about "i dont know what kind of pharmacist you are"