A unified India?

Re: A unified India?

Pakistan was not created for all South Asian Muslims (an impossible
thing to accomplish), but only as a federation of Muslim-majority
states of British India. Two-nation theory was implemented to Muslim-
majority versus Hindu-majority states with minorities and refugees
expected.

And Jinnah himself realized that two-nation theory can never be
implemented to its full extent, thus realistically only demanded
independence for Muslim-majority states of British India.

This is what Kuldip Nayar has to say on Jinnah and two-nation
theory: "What Jinnah envisaged was that people living in Pakistan,
both Muslims and Hindus, would become one nation in the same way as
Hindus and Muslims living in India would be. Religion would be a
private affair, not part of the state. There was no transfer of
population in the partition formula. Hindus and Muslims were supposed
to live in India and Pakistan."

Regarding Bangladesh, Pakistan Movement leaders like Muhammad
Iqbal and Rehmat Ali had envisioned Bangladesh as a separate
Muslim country from Pakistan. According to them, Pakistan should only
be a federation of Punjab, Kashmir, NWFP, Sindh, and Baluchistan based
on Indus Valley's common history, geography, language, culture, and race.

Re: A unified India?

Why should Pakistan NEVER unite with India:

  1. Looking at the miserable conditions of the discriminated Indian Muslim masses who have the highest levels of poverty, illiteracy, unemployment, etc. in the Hindu dominated India ... Not to mention the constant fear of riots and human rights abuses by Hindu fanatics with the likes of Babri riots and Gujarat pogram.

  2. Pakistan region was rarely part of India. Out of its 5000 years of known history, it was a part of India region only during the Buddhist Mauryan (100 years), Muslim Turko-Afghan-Mughal (525 years), and British (100 years) rule! Present day "India" was created by the British colonialists ... no country with such name or size existed prior to its British invention. The people and land of Pakistan have mostly led a separate existance from India ... including commerce, language, culture, history, race, religion, politics, etc.

  3. The danger of Indian (Hindi/Hindu) cultural invasion will be many times more potent because of open borders influx and imposition of monoplized Indian media .... with the Hinduization/Hindization process of Pakistanis... thus the possibility of Pakistanis losing their distinct Muslim identities (Punjabis, Pashtuns, Baluchs, Sindhis, etc).

  4. The danger of Indian economic domination and business monopolies over the Pakistanis making them dependent...

The list goes on....

Re: A unified India?

Differences between Pakistanis and Indians

Language/linguistics:

About 75% of languages spoken in Pakistan are Indo-Aryan and 24%
are Iranian, both part of the Indo-Iranian branch of Indo-European
family of languages. All languages of Pakistan are written in the
Perso-Arabic script, with significant vocabulary derived from Arabic
and Persian. Punjabi, Seraiki, Sindhi, Pashto, Urdu, Balochi,
Kashmiri, etc. are the languages spoken in Pakistan.

About 70% of languages spoken in India are Indo-Aryan, 25% are
Dravidian, and 5% are Sino-Tibetan and Austro-Asiatic, all distinct
family of languages. Most languages in India are written in Brahmi-
derived scripts such as Devangari, Gurmukhi, Tamil, etc. Hindi,
Bengali, Gujarati, Marathi, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Assamese,
Punjabi, and many others are the mother-tongue languages spoken in
each of India's states.

As you can see both countries have distinct linguistic identities.
Even in the case of Punjabi, while it is the mother-tongue of a
majority in Pakistan, it represents the mother-tongue of only 2%
Indians. Besides, Pakistani Punjabi (Western Punjabi) is distinct in
its vocabulary/dialect and writing script when compared to Indian
Punjabi (Eastern Punjabi). Another thing to keep in mind is that
Indian Punjabi is mostly spoken by Sikhs who consider themselves
distinct from the rest of Indians and had been fighting for
independence. In the case of Urdu/Hindi, while Hindi is the mother-
tongue of a majority in India, Urdu is the mother-tongue of only 8%
Pakistanis. Besides, they both are distinct languages, Urdu has a
writing script and strong vocabulary derived from Arabic and
Persian, whereas Hindi has strong vocabulary derived from Sanskrit
and is written in Devangari script. Most Pakistanis can understand
English and watch American/Brit movies but that does not make them
British/American, same is the case with Hindi.

Race/genetics:

About 65% of Pakistanis are Caucasoid by race, 23% Australoid-
Negroid, and 12% Mongoloid in their overall genetic composition.
Majority of Pakistanis are tall with fair skin complexion, similar
to Middle Eastern and Mediterranean peoples. While the racial features
of each ethnic group are not uniform, Pashtuns are the most Caucasoid,
followed by Kashmiris, Baluchis, north Punjabis, and then Sindhis, Seraikis,
Urdu-speakers, etc. The Australoid-Negroid and Mongoloid racial
elements are quite infused within the dominant Caucasoid genes among
Pakistanis, however there are some that have retained their distinct racial
characteristics.

About 50% of Indians are Australoid-Negroid by race, 35% Caucasoid,
and 15% Mongoloid in their overall genetic composition. Majority of
Indians are darker in their skin complexion, with wider noses,
shorter heights, etc. The Australoid-Dravidoid racial element
dominates among the lower caste Indians, South Indians, Eastern and
Central Indians, etc. The Caucasoid racial element dominates in
Northwest Indians and higher caste Indians. The Mongoloid racial
element dominates in Northeast Indians and border regions with
China.

Obviously, both countries have distinct racial identities. A common
international perception based on observance of physical features is
that most Pakistanis are lighter skinned than most Indians. Most
Pakistanis resemble the looks of peoples inhabiting on its western
borders and beyond. Indeed, many Pakistanis also resemble many
Northwest Indians or higher caste Indians, but those are a minority
in India. Similarly, a few people of Pakistan resemble peoples of
South India, lower caste Indians, Northeast India, etc. but they are
a minority in Pakistan. And besides, let's say, if some Saudis look
similar to the French that does not make them one people, same
applies here between Indians and Pakistanis.

Culture/Traditions:

Pakistanis have a distinct culture, traditions and customs. Shalwar
kamiz is the dress commonly worn, both by men and women in Pakistan.
Pakistani food is rich in meat (including beef), whereas wheat is
the main staple. Pashto, Punjabi, Balochi, Sindhi, etc. music and
dances are distinctly unique with their own melodies, instruments,
patterns and styles. Pakistani arts in metal work, tiles, furniture,
rugs, designs/paintings, literature, calligraphy, etc. are distinct
and diverse. Pakistani architecture is unique with its Islamic
styles. The manners and lifestyles are guided by a blend of Islam
and local traditions.

India's commonly worn dress is dhoti for men and sari for women.
Indian food is mostly vegetarian, with wheat as the main staple in
the north and west, and rice is the main staple in south and east.
Hindi, Gujarati, Tamil, Bengali, etc. music and dances are
distinctly unique. So are Indian arts in the many areas. Indian
architecture is unique in its mostly Hindu styles. The manners and
lifestyles of most Indians are guided by Hinduism.

Pakistanis and Indians definitely have distinct cultures of their
own. Some Indian women wear shalwar kamiz, but that was introduced
by the ancestors of Pakistanis. Many Pakistani food dishes are
absent in Indian cuisine and vice versa, and if some dishes are
shared, they were also introduced by the ancestors of Pakistanis
(like naan, tikka, kabob, biryani/pulao, etc.). There is barely any
Hindu architectural influence in Pakistan (Gandhara is Graeco-
Buddhist and Harappan is distinct), but significant influences by
the ancestors of Pakistanis can be found in India. The lives of most
Pakistanis are shaped by Islam, whereas the lives of most Indians
are shaped by Hinduism.

History/background:

Pakistanis are a blend of their Harappan, Aryan, Persian, Greek,
Saka, Parthian, Kushan, White Hun, Arab, Turkic, Afghan, and Mughal
heritage. Waves of invaders and migrants settled down in Pakistan
through out the centuries, influencing the locals and being absorbed
among them.

Most Indians are a blend of their heritage of Dravidoid-Australoid
hunters and gatherers, and Aryans (in north). Northwest Indians have
a heritage from Harappans, Aryans, Sakas, and White Huns. Northeast
Indians have a heritage based from Mongoloid hunters and gatherers.
Also, Turks, Afghans and Mughals ruled north India for centuries.

Pakistan and India have a distinct history and background. The
region of Pakistan was never part of India except for 500+ years
under the Muslims, and 100 years each under the Mauryans and the
British. If any thing, it were the ancestors of Pakistanis who colonized
north/northwest India, among them were Harappans, Aryans, Sakas,
Kushans, White Huns, Turks, Afghans, and Mughals.

Geography:

Pakistan is geographically unique, with Indus river and its
tributaries as its main water supply. It is bordered by the Hindu
Kush and Sulaiman Mountain ranges in the west, Karakoram mountain
range in the north, Sutlej river and Thar desert in east, and
Arabian Sea in the south. The country in its present form was
created by the Pakistanis themselves out of the British Raj, the
Indus people themselves who are now mostly Muslims.

India is geographically unique, with Ganges river and its
tributaries as its water supply in the north, and other river
systems in the rest of the country. Himalayas as its northern
boundary, Sutlej river and Thar desert as its western border, the
jungles of northeast as its eastern border, and Indian Ocean in the
south. The mountains in the central-south India are the great divide
between Dravidians of the south and Indo-Aryans of the north. The
country itself was created by the British, a direct descendent of
the remnants of British Raj.

It is evident that India and Pakistan have their own unique
geographical environments. Pakistan is located at the crossroads of
South Asia, Central Asia, and the Middle East. On the other hand,
India is located at the core of South Asia.

Re: A unified India?

why iran and central asians not asking for merger with pakitan? or atleast invited to join arab league? why stay in saarc?

Re: A unified India?

Hey P4E - when someone doesn't have anything real to say, that's when they resort to flooding the forum with mile long meaningless garbage - and that's what you're doing. You can't face the simple reality that Baluchi's want nothing to do with pakistan, just like the BD's didn't. My question is very simple- why is it ok for you guys to want to keep Baluchistan in pakistan but you don't mind pakistan out of India?

All I get in response is not enough Baluchis have made sufficient noise. that's exactly how it started in Dhakka

Re: A unified India?

First of all India has no reason to hold on to Pakistan. For your information if you didnt know, Pakistan is a separate country and had been like that for over 50 years. Baluchistan is a very small problem. India has 50 times more problems to deal with inside India. Why dont you unite all of India first and then talk about unifying with Pakistan. I guess you are living the dream of Nerhu who believed that Jinnah will come and beg to him to take Pakistan back. Here is news for you guys. Its not gonna happen. And if it does, it will be on our terms.

Re: A unified India?

i fail to understand why many indians seem to want pakistan as part of india anymore. just looking at the directions both countries have been heading for in the last 5 years should be reason enough to stay away from such ideas!

as far as balochistan and kashmir goes, after reading some of the stuff i have come across from this very forum, i really wonder how pakistanis can show support for their "oppressed kashmiri brethren" with a straight face.

Re: A unified India?

With the same face that India uses to support separist movements inside china.

Re: A unified India?

oh my!

Re: A unified India?

Indians seem to be highly sentimental… Make sense now?
As for Balochistan, do you even have a clue as to what is happening there, or what has happened… Pakistan is way to complex and weird to be understood in such simplistic ways. There is always more to what you read. A lot of people dont have sympathy for Balochistan because the people in charge seem to be holding the province back.. A lot of the money pumped into the province goes into the pockets of these god damn sardars. So what ae we to think? Do we bomb them, bribe them? Or ignore them and let them keep eating away at the society? Why dont you tell us if your so informed?
As for Kashmir, if I heard that people are being murder and raped by are constantly disappearing as though the laws of Physics hace ceased to exist, then yeah I would be concerned regardless of where it is. Ultimately, I just want Kashmir to take its reightful place in Pakistan in accordance with comman sense and and sensibilty…

Re: A unified India?

First of all, we dont know if Balochis really want to split from Pakistan. Many may not even care either way. With a population controled as they are by their tribals, and as illiterate as the vast majority is who can really say they truly represent the people of Balochistan?
Secondly, while I agree that there are similarities between partiotion and this, we seperated from British India, not the nation that became India of today. We seperated while the boundries of modern day India were being drawn up, we never left India, we just never joined it…
That said we are still apart of India the geographic, and cultural entity.
While I think its understandable for them (Balochis) to want their own state, you cant expect Pakistan to simply let it go for obvious reasons. But unlike in the case with India, Balochistn is a recoginzed part of modern day Pakistan, therefore, while its understandable, its not ok.

Re: A unified India?

yeah pakpatriot, balochistan is too complex, but kashmir is so easily understood. are you saying the mighty pakistani army which can kick the shyte out of elected governments cant do anything about two tribal sardars? who are we kidding here..

anyway, honestly, i dont give two hoots about what happens in balochistan or wherever in pak. all this talk of merger is impractical and suicidal.

Re: A unified India?

Pakistan is NOT experiencing any separatist/secessionist rebellion. The few Baluch rebels are demanding more provincial autonomy and access to resources.... NOT separation/independence.

This is not the case in India where Assamese, Nagas, Mizos, Tripurans, Manipurans, Tamils, Sikhs, Kashmiris, Goans, etc. want independence/separation from India !

Re: A unified India?

u must have some really fked up news sources.. tamils did try secession but it was politically motivated.. now tamils are as integral to india as anyone else.. same with sikhs.. they would shove a fist up ur a$$ if u even said something like that.. wonder why u brought in goa.. unless portugal has some ambitions goans intend to be with india.. kashmiris want to separate thanks to pakistan's endless keerapan..

Re: A unified India?

Hey… dont blame me for your state of denial:

KASHMIR

ummah.org.uk - ummah Resources and Information.

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

http://kashmir.org

http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca

http://www.a-r-k.org/aboutark.htm

http://www.kashmir.demon.co.uk

http://www.ummah.net/kashmir/kchr/index.htm

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/kashmirindex.htm

Khalistan (East Punjab)

http://www.khalistan.net

http://www.khalistan.com

http://www.khalistan-affairs.org/

http://www.dalkhalsa.com/

http://www.witness84.com/

http://www.carnage84.com/

http://www.ensaaf.org/

http://www.punjabjustice.org/

Muslims in India

http://www.muslimsonline.com/babri/babriarc.htm

http://www.www.secularindia.net/gujarat/gujarat.html

http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/indianmuslimsindex.htm

http://dalitstan.org/mughalstan

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/india/index.html
http://www.radianceweekly.com/

Christians in India

http://dalitstan.org/journal/genocide/christians/christians.html
http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/indianchristiansindex.htm

Dalits (Untouchables)

http://dalitstan.org

http://www.dalits.org

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature1/

http://ambedkar.org

http://dalitchristians.com/content1.htm

Assam

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

http://freespace.virgin.net/assam.watch

http://www.assam.org/assam/humanrights

Nagaland

Nagalim

http://www.nagalim.nl/

Hindu Fundamentalism

http://www.www.secularindia.net/

Tripura

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

Manipur

http://www.manipuronline.com/
Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

Goa

http://www.freegoa.com/

Tamil Nadu

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

Tamil Nadu (India)

http://www.dalitstan.org/tamil/

Re: A unified India?

:rotfl:^

you just proved the concept of reincarnation! who else can come up with the hodgepodge url medley other than Mhd.bin.Thuglak himself!:smiley:

Re: A unified India?

and who will be able to go through all these websites…

Re: A unified India?

In Balochistan we dont have to contend with the Indian Army mera Bhai:)
Number two, Kashmir isnt ruled by a fantical mindless Sardar following terrorists majority of whom im betting have had some kind of experience fighting either in Pakistan or in Afghanistan…
So yes, Balochistan is tougher battle…

Re: A unified India?

I still happen to know a few Sickhs who hate India… I guess they had some bad experiences during the sikh riots..
Second, India invaded Goa so it was the aggressor…
Who the hell were you to make that call?
And Kashmiris want to be seprate thanks to your countries imcompetent rule, and your insane Butt raping, mad dog army…

Re: A unified India?

Can you blame them:)