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a very interesting read, thnx TLK will definitely show her
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I was actually reading about this on another forum a few days back.. Pretty interesting posts here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/26732-atrocities-1971-civil-war.html
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Why are crimes of Pakistani soldiers in East Pakistan are always given importance whenever there is a mention of 1971 war?
What about the families of West Pakistanis in East Pakistan at that time who met equal if not more brutal treatment? There were rapes of those people too, they too were murdered with their families. These are the facts that are acknowledged by Pakistanis and Bengalis alike.
In addition to those crimes by East and West Pakistanis, why don't we bother to find out which one is the biggest gang rapist army in South Asia?
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^I’m not saying this makes it ok but the East Pakistanis were being treated like cr*p by their Pak rulers before the war broke out (they were contributing more economically yet being given back less, they were generally regarded as being ‘inferior people’, an attitude that some ppl on this forum seemingly have as well, pretending Bangladesh is doing worse than Pakistan when its GDP is actually higher and its currency worth more) so obviously they would feel a huge amount of resentment to the West Pakistanis in their areas who supported their ‘oppressors’ (I would liken the situation to that of the Shias in Iraq who originally supported the American invasion because they were oppressed by the Sunni minority).
The crucial thing is that these acts of violence don’t make it ok for a **GOVERNMENT ARMY to go in and start systematically killing civilians **- why would they head for the university and go after academics who obviously pose no military threat?? These were young students, people my age who they were trying to wipe out.. and then doctors, professors, basically any intellectuals they could get their hands on to turn East Pakistan into a nation of illiterates who would then be forced to ‘fall into line’ and become subservient to West Pakistan. The Bengalis rebelled because they were oppressed, yes they did also commit atrocities but this was also a reaction to how they were already being treated.
'At a meeting of the military top brass, Yahya Khan declared: “Kill 3 million of them and the rest will eat out of our hands.”
**
Accordingly, on the night of 25 March, the Pakistani Army launched Operation Searchlight to “crush” Bengali resistance in which Bengali members of military services were disarmed and killed, students and the intelligentsia systematically liquidated and able-bodied Bengali males just picked up and gunned down.'**
Source: Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia
And before anyone says I must be a ‘traitor’ or anti-Pakistani no, I personally** DON’T** think Pakistan needs to make a formal apology now for what went on then, that was a different generation and I don’t think it’s fair to push for an apology for something that happened so long ago. I would rather the Bangladesh Gov took a more pragmantic and conciliatory approach to all this rather than opening up old wounds and possibly ending up causing more division.
Anyone who reads neutral reports (eg the BLOOD TELEGRAM) of what was going on will get a truer picture than from trawling probably biased Pakistani or Bangladeshi ‘defence’ forums..
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Peace Deeba1234
You know I understand that treatment was bad, but this economics argument that yamahaguy has brought up and what you have reproduced above is quite embarrasing.
The figures for GDP are supposed to be billions of US dollars not in %. What yamahaguy has presented are the figures for growth.
Pakistan’s population is 5% higher than Bangladesh’s, but the overall GDP for Pakistan is $431.2 Billion with a growth of 4.1%, this compares to Bangladesh’s GDP of $256 Billion of growth 5.6%.
Pakistan’s GDP is 1.68 times larger than Bangladesh’s … just thought the accurate figures should be shown.
In absolute terms Bangladesh is due to grow by $14.33 Billion, whereas Pakistan’s is due to grow by $17.67 Billion.
Economically Pakistan is ranked 28th in the world where Bangladesh is ranked 48th.
Population percentage below poverty line in Pak = 23%
Population percentage below poverty line in Bangla = 36%
Also, the US dollar is a weaker currency than the UK pound, however the economy is many times bigger. There is no definite relationship between currency rate and strength of economy, without taking into consideration GDP.
However, these figures have nothing to do with people being treated inferior. I blame nationalism and racism entirely. We stopped thinking as an Ummah and started to think of the Muslims by what region they were born in. That goes for both sides, correction every side including the middle east for extra measure.
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not really. not in all human beings. just ones that think they are better than others because of their language/skin color/race etc.
Good to know that is what you think of the US military and NATO.
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I was going to say the same thing.
I wonder from where these “internet warriors” learned the term GDP without even knowing what it stands for. They drag in GDP whenever Pakistan’s problems are under discussion and justify their allegations based on Pakistan’s low growth rate of GDP.
If Pakistan’s GDP growth rate is less than that of Bangladesh today, it was higher than their’s just 3 years ago. Did that make Pakistanis less criminal for crimes in 1971? Did that justify all what was done to Bengalis in 1971?
And if economic neglect is any reason for genocide of suppressors, guess what 26 crore dalits and 30 crore Muslims in India need to do right now 
And those who think there is anything left to be sorted out between Pak and Bagladesh, Musharraf as Pak’s army chief and president already admitted and apologized for all excesses against Bengalis.
So these internet warriors need to find something else against Pakistan.
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Alright. Time to step in and be logical for the sake of Truthiness. Now atrocities were committed. No doubt about that. However lets take this all in perspective. How long did the war last before India kicked our asses? Lets make it a large number of 12 months. And according to the Bangladeshi authorities, we kill what 3 million people? Fair enough.
That means the Pakistani military killed 8,220 people per day on average. That means we killed 342.5 people per hour. Meaning people did not sleep at all. They did not eat. They did not go to the toilet for 365 days straight. To reach the 3 million mark they had be constantly killing people every day without a break.
Must say that is an impressive feat to achieve. A military killed 3 million people without sleeping, eating or even toilet breaks.
Then lets not forget that when Mujeeb traveled from the UK he stated 30,000 were killed. Then he stated 300,000 were killed. When he got to Bangladesh a few days later it had changed to 3 million. Amazing feat there. In a few days the Pakistani military killed more then 2 million people. They must have nuked half the country.
Yes atrocities were committed. Genocide? Nope. Not by the legal definition. War crimes? Possibly yes. Crimes against Humanity? Most definitely. But Genocide? Pfft.
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Alright. Time to step in and be logical for the sake of Truthiness. Now atrocities were committed. No doubt about that. However lets take this all in perspective. How long did the war last before India kicked our asses? Lets make it a large number of 12 months. And according to the Bangladeshi authorities, we kill what 3 million people? Fair enough.
That means the Pakistani military killed 8,220 people per day on average. That means we killed 342.5 people per hour. Meaning people did not sleep at all. They did not eat. They did not go to the toilet for 365 days straight. To reach the 3 million mark they had be constantly killing people every day without a break.
Must say that is an impressive feat to achieve. A military killed 3 million people without sleeping, eating or even toilet breaks.
Then lets not forget that when Mujeeb traveled from the UK he stated 30,000 were killed. Then he stated 300,000 were killed. When he got to Bangladesh a few days later it had changed to 3 million. Amazing feat there. In a few days the Pakistani military killed more then 2 million people. They must have nuked half the country.
Yes atrocities were committed. Genocide? Nope. Not by the legal definition. War crimes? Possibly yes. Crimes against Humanity? Most definitely. But Genocide? Pfft.
Thanks CM.
(I never thought I would say that :D)
Re: a question...
Alright. Time to step in and be logical for the sake of Truthiness. Now atrocities were committed. No doubt about that. However lets take this all in perspective. How long did the war last before India kicked our asses? Lets make it a large number of 12 months. And according to the Bangladeshi authorities, we kill what 3 million people? Fair enough.
That means the Pakistani military killed 8,220 people per day on average. That means we killed 342.5 people per hour. Meaning people did not sleep at all. They did not eat. They did not go to the toilet for 365 days straight. To reach the 3 million mark they had be constantly killing people every day without a break.
Must say that is an impressive feat to achieve. A military killed 3 million people without sleeping, eating or even toilet breaks.
Then lets not forget that when Mujeeb traveled from the UK he stated 30,000 were killed. Then he stated 300,000 were killed. When he got to Bangladesh a few days later it had changed to 3 million. Amazing feat there. In a few days the Pakistani military killed more then 2 million people. They must have nuked half the country.
Yes atrocities were committed. Genocide? Nope. Not by the legal definition. War crimes? Possibly yes. Crimes against Humanity? Most definitely. But Genocide? Pfft.
What a glorious statistical reasoning? I'm not sure about the number of deaths in bangladesh, but please do not mock Bangladeshis by your stupid analysis. You focus on what Mujeeb said, but you dont care what Pak army did.
Please do the same stupid analysis for Rwanda, when Hutus slaughtered around 800,000 to 1 million tutsis in less than 100 days, or how about darfur, or genocide by Pol Pot Khmer Rouge in south east asia? You are a good spokesman for people like these.
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That means the Pakistani military killed 8,220 people per day on average. That means we killed 342.5 people per hour. Meaning people did not sleep at all. They did not eat. They did not go to the toilet for 365 days straight. To reach the 3 million mark they had be constantly killing people every day without a break.
if 1 person takes 90,000 seconds to build a wall, 90,000 people can build it in one second, right? At least the math you threw in pretty much follows the same logic.
It took 19 terrorist 2 hours to kill 3000 people during wtc attack. According to your math, each terrorist killed 1.3 people every minute. Man I wonder when did they take a bathroom break, they must be so busy.
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Well you can't deny indian presence in the area.
Million $$$$ question is why the Indra Gandhi said about the whole eastPakistan episode
"hum ny 1000 saal ki history ka badla lia"?
So if bangali were dying and getting raped I wont say it was only pak-forces doing it.
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Well you can't deny indian presence in the area.
Million $$$$ question is why the Indra Gandhi said about the whole eastPakistan episode
"hum ny 1000 saal ki history ka badla lia"?
So if bangali were dying and getting raped I wont say it was only pak-forces doing it.
Monk, mere speculations cannot change history. Its a known fact that is admitted by Pakistani's themselves that crime happened. ANd just because Indian forces raped Bengali women, somehow its ok for us to do that too?
btw, no one can deny that india did not take advantage of that situation, but india did not shout 'tum wahan hukoomat karo, hum yahaan' (quote of ZAB when Awami League got more vote than PPP but West Pakistani politicians refused to let Kaalay Bengali rule haseen o Jameel west Pakistan) -
I can post Bhutto's taqreer here where he gave behen kee gali to Bengalis during a public address.
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As much as I hate bhutto, I still have to say he was opportunist who knew how to play with masses.
Damage was done long before. For the same reason ,now balochistan crying about, bangalis suffered too. But indian influence was just too powerful there.
They played major part making it hard for pak-forces. I am not denying that they have done crimes there.
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They played major part making it hard for pak-forces. I am not denying that they have done crimes there.
and the thread is all about the crimes, not about the cause of split of east and west Pakistan.
BTW, you should read Qudrat-ullah Shahab's Shabanama. That will give you more insight of what happened.
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Boss I really want to talk about that book too.
Is that really true what he talks about???
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off topic but other than his Jin’s and Bhoot encounters, I think its quite true
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I don't know boss, I have came across some one else too, who clam to be
in presence of prophetS and having hr long discussion with them.
I mean come on!!!
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Its good to know TLK you compare a plane with individuals armed with guns.
Yeah Genocide in darfur? Something even the UN says did not happen. How many years did Pol Pot have? Additionally Rwanda was horrific. However they were a few million killing each other. It wasn't 90,000 or whatever the Pakistani military figure was during that period.
Logically 300,000 is a more realistic figure.
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Its good to know TLK you compare a plane with individuals armed with guns.
dude, a grenade could kill a dozen in one minute, 10 tanks driving through a small village during night time could crush 100's in 30 minutes .. crime wars are not target practice where one soldier with one gun kills one person a time.