A question to Ahmedis!

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Mr Perplexing:

On to the next point. In one of your previous mails, you said that Promised Messiah wrote in one of his books:

[QUOTE]
Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH did not understand the meaning of Surah AlZilzal. (Roohani KhazainVol 3 p. 166)
[/QUOTE]

and I replied that in that page Promised Messiah is talking about the Ulema who made a mistake while commentating on this Surah. Hid didn't wrote that Holy Prophet made a mistake. Were you wrong in that assertion or I am misreading your mail.

We should come on to a conclusion on this point before moving on!

102

Dear Fateh Ahmed sahab, I do believe that Quran has a distinct style, and that style is only for Allah.

Regarding your explanation of the word baghaya, it still means prostitutes according to all Arabic dictionaries. As you finally agreed that it means prostitutes (which you were not earlier), but imply that it was used metaphorically, even then it is a very indecent way of addressing others who did not believe on his claim. **There surely is a great difference between Allah referring to somebody and a human declaring the whole humanity children of prostitues, who did not believe him!!! **It is quite clear to everybody and there always will remain this objection.

[thumb=B]5rk547.JPG/thumb

Prophet Muhammad (saw) never used indecent language. He was a last and true Messenger of Allah.

These are some of the other indecencies which are not metaphorical indeed!!!

Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian said:

**"God is the one who has sent his messenger, this humble self, with good conduct and manners." (Roohani Khazain vol. 17 p.426)

"I have not even answered back anyone with abusive language." (Roohani Khazain vol. 19 p.236)

"To Curse is not the Quality of a SIDDIQ (Truthful). Believer does not send Curses." (Roohani Khazain vol. 3, p.456)**

And in reality:

Reacting to the criticism of one of his opponents, he said:

**"O Low Caste! Khabees! Enemy of Allah and Prophet! You have done this Jewish alteration in the (prophecy), so that this Grand Miracle of Holy Prophet SAAW is hidden from this world .....your lie O Worthless is exposed ...... from which word did these Stupids understood these meanings? O Morons! O Sightless! Disgrace to the Molviyat! ......especially the head of the Dajjaleens, Abdul Haq Ghaznavi and his followers; Hundred thousand times Shoes of Curses of Allah may fall upon them. O Dirty Dajjal! Prophecy has been fulfilled but bigotry has blinded you."
(Zamima Anjam-e-Atham, Roohani Khazain vol 11 p.330)

Mirza sahab remembers his another opponent, Hazrath Mehr Ali Shah, in following words: "Lair, Khabees (wicked). Sting like a scorpion. O Land of Golra! Curse of God be upon you. You have become accursed because of the cursed one." (Roohani Khazain vol.18)

"Enemies (meaning Muslims) have become swines of our jungle and their women have become worse than bitches." (Roohani Khazain vol.14 p.53) **

Such words and sayings do not suit rigteous people of Allah! I hope you would try to understand. May Allah show us the right path.

WaSalam.

103

Hello! FatehAhmad Sahib!!....
So in the answer to Mr. Islamabad u have posted the same posting again!...well I would like to give my 2 sense in this matter as well...... the fact that "Son of prostitues" should not be over emphasised, according to you, it is the same as saying Dumb and Blind in Quran and O yeah Deaf....I would like to ask you a question....why is it that u translated the whole sentence in english except "Zurriyatul-Baghaya"...??the whole article written by you is in english but u insist on writing "Zurriyatul-Baghaya" in arabic....

who would be the best person to ask what does this "Zurriyatul-Baghaya" mean...?? In my opinion the person who wrote it (MGA Sahib)... Lets see LaeqKhan even gave you the index page where in his own words Mirza Sahib is explaining the meaning of this word...why r u refuting him(Mirza Sahib)?

in the same book he writes again.......

"And in the case of Atham you are mentioning the curse of people
Make sure people have always cursed the pious ones
And people are blind that they start abusing quickly
thus their curse O Ibne Ahmaq (Son of Stupid) is nothing
O the one who is afflicted with cursed, leave the mentioning of curse
did you not see that after BAKWAAS (useless talk) what has happened to you
You cursed me and God curse you on your face
and curse is God's curse
And I do not see in you knowledge and intelligence
and you attack like a pig and make noise like a donkey
**Raqasta ka raqsa Bagheeyatin fil majaalis - And you danced like a prostitute dances in a gathering*
and declared me Faasiq although you are the most faasiq"
(Roohani Khazain vol.12 p.234-235)
*

the poem is written in arabic but the word BAGHYA is translated by Mirza Sahib, underneath as "BAD KAR AORAT".....but according to FatehAhmad sahib it would be translated as * ....you danced like the people whom hearts have been sealed in the MAJLIS (gathering)...*

does that make any sense....??? Mirza Sahib was very fond of this word, he has used it on numerous occasions or something to a similar effect...

"To do Jehad with this Government is right or not, thus remember that this question of their's is extremely stupid because how can there be a Jehad against those, to pay gratitude for whose benefaction is obligatory and essential on us? I tell you truthfully that to want bad for the benefactor is the job of a 'HARAMI' (*****) and BADKAAR man." (Roohain Khazain vol.6 p.380)

(even this site won't allow me to write the meaning of Harami...every time I write it turns into (*******)..)

at the end I will leave you with a question.... When your son comes to you and asks u for something several times(even after u saying no)...would u rather respond to him by sayning R U DUMB, DEAF?? or would u say r u SON OF PROSTITUTE or "Zurriyatul-Baghaya"...???

(away from this topic I don't understand the Loyalty to the British Raj...the whole continent rather be it Muslims or Hindus, were sick of their anamositites...but thats another topic all together...any ways..)

P.S. I did not forget about your Question...I will Inshallah return soon...thanks for being patient...:)

104

fatehahmad: I noticed you didn't explain the following:

GOD makes mistakes, I am GOD, I am BETTER than Prophet Muhammad

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *quote:

Can you please give a reference to the book in which Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said that he was BETTER than the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

[/QUOTE]

can you explain the rest of the above please? you know what shirq is?

and this:

"I saw in my dream that I am exactly God and I believed that I am God, neither my intention remained nor any danger ...... in this capacity (when I was God) I said: We want a new system, new heavens, new earth. Thus I initially created heaven and earth in a condensed form in which there was neither any differentiation nor any arrangement. Then I separated them and arranged them ... and at that moment I found myself capable of doing that. Then I created the first sky and said: 'Inna zaiyanna assamaa addunya be masaabeeha' (We have adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps 67.5). Then I said: We will create human with a potion of clay. Thus I made Adam and I created Adam on the best shape and in this manner I became KHALIQ - Creator."

(Aina-e-Kamalaat-e-Islam P.564-565; Roohani Khazain Vol.5 Pp.564-565)

105

Assalam O Alaikum

In this he was talking about a dream! He is saying that in his DREAMS, he saw himself as a GOD. I am sure that not everything in the dreams can be taken literaly.

Waalaikum Us Salam

106

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Assalam O Alaikum

In this he was talking about a dream! He is saying that in his DREAMS, he saw himself as a GOD. I am sure that not everything in the dreams can be taken literaly.

Waalaikum Us Salam
[/QUOTE]
ROFL

. He had chosen only this dream as some thing very important to share and to impress ppl like you!
. He must have seen many other so called dreams but he had choosen only this one for his book.
. If you don't take this dream literaly then how about rest of his so called preachings for you ?
. That was an open shirk he did, not only he in dream but he share that dream with you guys, and he quoted that into his book!

and very soon you will see him burning in the hell with you own eyes, very soon dear, don't trust me but time will tell you, just wait till day of judjment and see!

107

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Assalam O Alaikum

In this he was talking about a dream! He is saying that in his DREAMS, he saw himself as a GOD. I am sure that not everything in the dreams can be taken literaly.

Waalaikum Us Salam
[/QUOTE]

oh maybe then this whole thing is not literal..

well, being reasonable.. just imagine anyone who truly love and fears Allah subhana-ho-wa'talah, see the same thing.. you think he will come up and do the same thing that he did? take this dream as something to be proud of.. if he is not then what is he doing, trying to impress others? Even hazoor sallalahu-aleyhi-wassalam was too humble and always asked Allah to keep him safe from shaetaan’s shar.. what is it other than shaetaan's behkawa? hmm?

108

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ?: *
*ROFL

. He had chosen only this dream as some thing very important to share and to impress ppl like you!
...................., just wait till day of judjment and see!

[/QUOTE]

Dear brother in Islam!
Our main aim is to help our fellow Ahmedis from this ignorance. Please do not forget that we have to address everyone with respect, under all circumstances. If we do not respect others views, than this is against the very teachings of our beloved last Prophet Sayed Al Mursaleen wa Khatim Al-Nabiyeen Muhammad Mustafa Sallallah hu alaihi wasalm. Hidayah is from Allah. So lets pray to Him instead of criticising anybody. Our duty is to give Dawah and make things clear by the will of Allah.

Brother, please do remember that criticism will not lead to anything. It will only create hatred. As Muslims it is our duty to join hearts. Love humanity, feel the pain, worry for ourselves and others. May Allah save us all from fire of hell and azab of qabr. After death there is no return. We are all children of Adam, so we should be worried about our human brothers. Everybody is responsible for his/her own deeds and surely there is no saviour except Allah. Jazak Allah Khair.

Whatever is posted in the posts above is quite clear to make them realize, If they understand it with open hearts! May Allah guide us all!

Dearest brother in Islam!
Wa Assalam Alikum wa rehmatullah wa barakatuhu.

109

Assalam O Alaikum

About the allegation of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, I am giving a link to a Ahmadiyya website. Please read through it and if even after reading it, you still want to repeat your allegation, please pray to Allah that he shows everybody the courage to understand the truth! Ameen.

Opponents of Promised Messiah

On the other allegations, I would inshallah present the answers later on!

Waalaikum Us Salam

110

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by salman_2you: *

You what is your source of knowing that "plan" (a hotline to God may be). Are you claiming yourself another messanger of God? (naozobillah)

^ That is true but make no sense with the above statement of yours.

Tell us in simple words what's your insight story is???

:)
[/QUOTE]

No source my friend. Just a belief. I believe God has a plan for everyone. I think if you are true Muslim you would agree.

I have no clue what God's plan is, only that he has one, God promised life everlasting to those that believe in him.

I think that people being humans have choice in the way we live life. I also belive that choice is a grace granted from God.

I think its our choice as humans how to live life and that decision was graced by God.

Its our jobs as humans to please God with our humanity.

How can we? With our inept ability to get along and love each other?

I think that learning how to love one another is the very essense of God's teaching.

111

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *

Dear brother in Islam!
Our main aim is to help our fellow Ahmedis from this ignorance. Please do not forget that we have to address everyone with respect, under all circumstances. If we do not respect others views, than this is against the very teachings of our beloved last Prophet Sayed Al Mursaleen wa Khatim Al-Nabiyeen Muhammad Mustafa Sallallah hu alaihi wasalm. Hidayah is from Allah. So lets pray to Him instead of criticising anybody. Our duty is to give Dawah and make things clear by the will of Allah.

Brother, please do remember that criticism will not lead to anything. It will only create hatred. As Muslims it is our duty to join hearts. Love humanity, feel the pain, worry for ourselves and others. May Allah save us all from fire of hell and azab of qabr. After death there is no return. We are all children of Adam, so we should be worried about our human brothers. Everybody is responsible for his/her own deeds and surely there is no saviour except Allah. Jazak Allah Khair.

Whatever is posted in the posts above is quite clear to make them realize, If they understand it with open hearts! May Allah guide us all!

Dearest brother in Islam!
Wa Assalam Alikum wa rehmatullah wa barakatuhu.
[/QUOTE]
Gustaakh-e-Rasool (SAWW) are never be respected,

Islamabad or laeeqahmed whatever!
why you always try to cover them up and talking to give respect them ?
tell me honestly onw thing, which making me confuse and making my doubt more, Are you really a Muslim or Qadiani/Ahmadi ?
I hope you won't mind answering, cuz I just thought I have a right to ask you!
If not just ignore it, I will live with my doubt!

and the link which ahmadis have given, I never bothered to click them and I hope other Muslims will do the same, what need to read is... Ahmadi should read Islam, not we read them!
They are out of Islam, and they can never convince by any means!
So its useless to give links and write millions of words here to prove a wrong ...right!
bye...

112

Whats an Ahmedis anyway?

113

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
No source my friend. Just a belief. I believe God has a plan for everyone. I think if you are true Muslim you would agree.
I have no clue what God's plan is, only that he has one, God promised life everlasting to those that believe in him.
I think that people being humans have choice in the way we live life. I also belive that choice is a grace granted from God.
I think its our choice as humans how to live life and that decision was graced by God.
Its our jobs as humans to please God with our humanity.

How can we? With our inept ability to get along and love each other?
I think that learning how to love one another is the very essense of God's teaching.
[/QUOTE]
...you forgot to say Practice Islam!
Quran is the way of living! while Sunnat-e-Rasool is Practical example of what Quran says!
Just read Quran with translation to understand, do research on Sunnat-e-Rasool (SAWW) ... you will not need any Mullah to Guide you!
The complete way of living is to Practicce Islam!
all dignity of Human and Humanity is part of Islam!

114

A small group who claimed to be Muslim,
they were declared non-Muslim by Govt. of Pakistan in 70’s
They believe in Gulam Ahmed qadiani as a Propeht :nono4:
They are well funded, and so on so…

115

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ?: *
Gustaakh-e-Rasool (SAWW) are never be respected,

They are out of Islam, and they can never convince by any means!
So its useless to give links and write millions of words here to prove a wrong ...right!
bye...

[/QUOTE]

It is true that gustakh e rasool can never be respected. What does this mean? Does it mean we curse him and use abusive language? Certainly not! Allah's curse is enough on him!!!!!! Laaan Allah ala alKazibin!!!! After all this discussion, you did not realize that it was mainly aimed at exposing the reality of Ahmediat!! Many Muslims including me did not know these things and even had a good opinion of them. Exposing the reality is our duty. Didn't you notice one thing? This website is the home of Ahmedis. Just every second person turns out to be Ahmedi here. We should thank Allah that this topic was discussed here and the reality came out to everyone. Even the Ahmedis here have failed to answer our questions. There simply is no answer!!!! It is our duty to spread the word of Allah! The Holy Quran says:

Iduu ila sabile rabbik bilhikmah wal mauizatulHassanah
Invite to the way of Allah with Hikmah and mauizatulHAsanah

The way you are addressing them, is it Islamic??? When Allah himself is commanding you than why are you not understanding. In this way all religions except ISlam are gustakh. Christians are gustakh of hazrat Isaa, because they call him son of God. Should we use abusive languge???? Not at all!

Afreen hai aap ki aqal peh. koi agar kissi ko hikmat seh sachaey dikha raha ho to us ko aap kaffir declare kar datey hain. Do you think after seeing the reality any sensible person would like Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian???? They themselves would curse him. Our job was to show them the reality with the will of Allah. Do you know how the lie of Ahmediat stands, it is only on ignorance. There are many nice people who do not even know that this was what their promised messiah said!

Regarding the link, what is wrong with checking it if we know that 1.3 billion mainstream Muslims including us are on the right path! Have tolerance. I am sure checking out the link would only increase our imaan. Do you see how they have come up to giving the link???? Their arguments simply finished!!!! They have been proven wrong and it is hard to admit and change something which they have been believing since they were born and as their parents told them.

Having discussed at lenghths everything, now its the turn of links. Why can't that material be posted here. These are simple, evident questions Ahmedis cannot answer and never will be able to answer! What is left to answer when everything is so clear.

Dear Ahmedis!!! Your so called messiah used very abusive language, which no good person would use. Proofs are right in front of your eyes. Now open your eyes and hearts to them. Pray to Allah for guidance. We all will be answerable for our own deeds. Mirza sahab will not come to save you! Even Prophet Muhammad (saw) told his daughter Fatima that she will go in Jannah with her own aaamal(deeds).

I hope you understand.

116

Dear Mr. Fateh Ahmed saheb. I checked the link and read what it said. The language used by others has no comparison to what your so called messiah has used.

May Allah show us guidance!

117

Bhai, I am here for last 5 years, had seen so many things, finally I had left this place, but just got visted for last few days,…chalain aap bhi try kar lain, and a personal sorry to you :flower1:

118

Our job as Muslims is to always feel for the non-believers. This is Sunnah of the Prophet (saw)!

119

Jinab FatheAhmad Sahib! I am sorry I have'nt been very prompt with my postings..I have finals starting tomorrow and I will not be able to reply in detail...but please do keep this discussion up...I appreciate your co-operation thank you.....Allah Hafiz

120

and..........??? the conclusion is ???

that i should close my eyes, and keep on beleiving what i have been told to beleive my parentsa, which fancies my lifestyle ...

oh and i have lil question..

Lets say muslims got corrupt soon after the departure of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) from this world. lets say 100 years max.. then where were meester ghulam ahmad saab? he came so late.. 1822 right?

what about the fate of those musleems who existed between the prophets (SAW) departure and arrival of meester ghulam ahmad ?

If meester Ghulam ahmad were so vigilant and true messiah(not) then he must have adressed this issue..
man i pity those muleems who died before arrival of meester ghulam ahmad.. they missed a whole lot of new revelations... but then (islam was completd on day of jummatul widah ? its in Quran right?)

Ok i need exact phrase from a BOOK, with reference..