[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rabia Chaudhry: *
:),...
jo insan jaysa karam kerhay ga waysa hi bharay ga so y u guys r worried ab them??????
aap loog apnay aamalhon ka socho coz jub ap maro gay tu Allah ap nay ap kay amalahon ka saawal kerhay ga na kay yeah pouchay ga kay ahmidihon nay kon kon say amal kiya haan,...
so it's better 2 wacth urself,...
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In Quran, Allah swt said "amr bil-maroof wa nahi an-il-munkar". Ever pondered over that? Ever considered "tableegh" (not the one that tableeghi jamat does)? Dawa? these are good deeds, if anyone is doing it don't criticize or stop him from that.
What surprises me is how so-called Muslims are obssesed with turning people that dont agree with them into Kafir. What do they expect to gain by deeming others as Kafir?
Also, why do these "muslims" turn Islam into something so sickeningly intolerant?
No one is asking them to agree with Ahmedi beliefs, but atleast tolerate them. By that I mean let them call themselves what they want, let them practice the faith and let god judge whether they are right or wrong.
Its reminds me of how the prophet had to put up with people throwing garbage on him and other horrible things. He just brushed it asside and said god will punish them. Now if the Prophet himself can put up with such things, then why are his supposed followers so hell bent on torturing all those they consider "against" the teachings of IIslam?
[QUOTE] Originally posted by PaKpatriot1: *
What surprises me is how so-called Muslims are obssesed with turning people that dont agree with them into Kafir. What do they expect to gain by deeming others as Kafir?
Also, why do these "muslims" turn Islam into something so sickeningly intolerant?
No one is asking them to agree with Ahmedi beliefs, but atleast tolerate them. By that I mean let them call themselves what they want, let them practice the faith and let god judge whether they are right or wrong.
Its reminds me of how the prophet had to put up with people throwing garbage on him and other horrible things. He just brushed it asside and said god will punish them. Now if the Prophet himself can put up with such things, then why are his supposed followers so hell bent on torturing all those they consider "against" the teachings of IIslam?
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I don't care what Ahmadi do ***, but should not be in the name of Islam, because they are not Muslim at all as declared by Govt of Pakistan, they can never justify it!
They must rename thier religion! We are only concern with name!
First of all before anything else I would like to say " I am not an Ahmadi"..for some reason when one speaks in favor of some one, the masses think they pertain to that click...If something is against my principles, I will speak up for it...no one should diss Ahmadis for what they believe...and call them Kafirs and exclude them from the society...if that was the case Prophet Muhammad would'nt have converted any one, me and u would'nt have been here as Muslims..
Secondly they r humans like we r...they did not choose to be born in an Ahmadi family...neither did u (in a sunni,shia or any other religion for that matter)...its a shame that Laeeq has been baned from this site..since there have been similar discussions carried out about other sects...this shows the Hypochrisy of our people....All I have to say is if u do want to talk about some one elses belief u do not approach them in this manner ( u r suppose to preach, this is part of our religion).....if the views r objectionable to us then we should point them out and ask the Ahmadies "Do u guys belive in this?" Bcoz to my experience about 90% of them have no clue as to what there Promissed Messiah has written in his books....for some odd reason these books are not part of their religious studies (I don't mean the excripts, I mean the real books)....inform them in a Humane fashion invite them to ponder on this....The prime example of this would be, some one on this site earlier, sayin that he (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) never claimed to be a Prophet!! Which he DID!!!.... there r alot of contradictions in his writings...He with all due respect to Ahmadies has said things like "GOD makes mistakes, I am GOD, I am BETTER than Prophet Muhammad, I am Marry and I concieved Jesus, People who do not believe in me r sons of prostitues...etc." if references r needed I will be more than happy to provide them....But to Humiliate some one like this is not a true Muslim's virtue coz if u call ur self a muslim then u should also know that Allah says in Quran HE is the one who gives the HIDAYAH all we can do is Tell some one....Allah Ahdee hum...Ameen
I want to clear this misconception of people like Avg American girl...It does matter what u believe in...This is the reason Allah sent 175,000(approx) prophets in this world to guide people to the right path...and yes there is a right path...if there was'nt then there was no need for all these prophets..Prophet Muhammad before becoming a NABI, did think that there was a higher power, he never worshiped idols...but even after that he was given the message of Islam..why???
I am not goin to indulge in lengthy abstract coversations about why its like that....
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter. (Quran, 3:85)*
........This is the verse from Quran and I am sure as a Muslim u would not decline the authority of this book...Take it for what it is and abstain from adding your own interpretations in it...There is this new movement among the Muslims specially in the west...coming up with new views that appeal to contemporary society to feel more accepted..I would like to request people like that not to mis quide others in the name of personal views.....no one can make u believe in something but know what the truth is.....
" In The Name of Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful."
" (All) praise is (only) Allah's, the Lord of the Worlds "
" The Beneficent, The Merciful"
" Master of the Day of Judgement."
" Thee (alone) do we worship and of thee (only) do we seek help."
" Guide us (O' Lord) on the Straight Path."
" The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed Thy bounties, not (the path) of those inflicted with Thy wrath, nor (of those) gone astray."
ahamdis are not seen as threat to pakistanis but to muslims. They are a threat because they spy for the jews and support things like american invasion of muslim countries- ppl like ny ahmadi is one of those that supports american war criminals. They also say that they are muslims but they believe in some guy called mirza who they say is the last messenger.
basically its the way they are deceiving everyone that pisses ppl off.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malibu man: *
ahamdis are not seen as threat to pakistanis but to muslims. They are a threat because they spy for the jews and support things like american invasion of muslim countries- ppl like ny ahmadi is one of those that supports american war criminals. They also say that they are muslims but they believe in some guy called mirza who they say is the last messenger.
basically its the way they are deceiving everyone that pisses ppl off.
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In my opinion it is not good to say such things. Why are you generalizing everybody. So this means that all Muslims are bad because the 9/11 terrorists were Muslims. We must learn to respect others' views. Isn't thats what the Prophet (saw) taught us.
Please make sure that we do not offend anybody by what we say. If NYA is against Pakistan etc. then those are his views and should be respected.
When are we Pakistanis going to learn tolerance?!!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malibu man: *
ahamdis are not seen as threat to pakistanis but to muslims. They are a threat because they spy for the jews and support things like american invasion of muslim countries- ppl like ny ahmadi is one of those that supports american war criminals. They also say that they are muslims but they believe in some guy called mirza who they say is the last messenger.
basically its the way they are deceiving everyone that pisses ppl off.
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Who CARES ABOUT THE GOVT OF PAKISTAN!!!
Since when does the govt of Pakistan have the moral duty of judging other as being Muslim or non-Muslim.. Most of the people who make theee anti aHMEDI RULES IN PAKISTAN… ARE BIGGEST KAFIRS THEMSELVES… Just live in Pakistan and open your eyes, there is every kind of corruption and sin everywhere in that country… I have seen it myself. SO WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO FOOL???
The govt PAKISTAN is not defending Islam, but just promoting a narrow minded, egotistical method of represion. What logic is there when a Christian who writes the kALMA IS APPLAUDED, but AN AHMEDI IS SENT TO PRISON OR WORSE??? What is the logic in doing away with seperate electorate when ONLY the Ahmedis are made to SIGN SOME PAPER AFFRIMING THEY ARE “KAFIR?” Pakistan govt IS a JOKE, so dont even mention them in a serious conversation…
Secondly.. I dont think Islam needs YOU to defend it.. If Islam is all it cracked up to be, then a few million Ahmedis could never pose a threat. Isnt it suppose to be the govrening force in the entire Universe? So how can a governing force be threatened by a people who number fewer the Christians in Pakistan. Ahmedis are NOT A threat to Islam. The only threat is from insecure people who can only find security in persecuting inocent people. The biggest threat is from your own fold.. Your OSAMAS AND TALIBANS AND SIPAH SAHABAS AND YOU VICOUS MOLVIS FOAMING AT THE MOUTH… So WHO is lying? The Ahmedis as far as I know rarely even mention they are Ahmedi in public let alone spread “lies about Islam.” I happen to have relative s who are Ahmedis, and they simply want to be left alone. So what reality are you living in?
And By the way, MALIBU BHAI, I support your “American war criminals” as long as they go after the terrorist scum bags that like to pretend they are Muslims. KILL OSAMA:k:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by arghoon: *
First of all before anything else I would like to say " I am not an Ahmadi"..for some reason when one speaks in favor of some one, the masses think they pertain to that click...If something is against my principles, I will speak up for it...no one should diss Ahmadis for what they believe...and call them Kafirs and exclude them from the society...if that was the case Prophet Muhammad would'nt have converted any one, me and u would'nt have been here as Muslims..
Secondly they r humans like we r...they did not choose to be born in an Ahmadi family...neither did u (in a sunni,shia or any other religion for that matter)...its a shame that Laeeq has been baned from this site..since there have been similar discussions carried out about other sects...this shows the Hypochrisy of our people....All I have to say is if u do want to talk about some one elses belief u do not approach them in this manner ( u r suppose to preach, this is part of our religion).....if the views r objectionable to us then we should point them out and ask the Ahmadies "Do u guys belive in this?" Bcoz to my experience about 90% of them have no clue as to what there Promissed Messiah has written in his books....for some odd reason these books are not part of their religious studies (I don't mean the excripts, I mean the real books)....inform them in a Humane fashion invite them to ponder on this....The prime example of this would be, some one on this site earlier, sayin that he (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) never claimed to be a Prophet!! Which he DID!!!.... there r alot of contradictions in his writings...He with all due respect to Ahmadies has said things like "GOD makes mistakes, I am GOD, I am BETTER than Prophet Muhammad, I am Marry and I concieved Jesus, People who do not believe in me r sons of prostitues...etc." if references r needed I will be more than happy to provide them....But to Humiliate some one like this is not a true Muslim's virtue coz if u call ur self a muslim then u should also know that Allah says in Quran HE is the one who gives the HIDAYAH all we can do is Tell some one....Allah Ahdee hum...Ameen
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Im no authority onAhmediyat, but there are some VERY intelligent people out there who are Ahmedi, and have studied it wrting and have not found any contradiction in it. Its all in the matter of nterpretat2ion and how you approach it. Im certain some of the more well informed on this site can counter a lot of the contradictions you speak of.
In one paragraph you said that Govt. of Pakistan cannot judge anyone as Kafir, and in the same paragraph YOU became JUDGE to call Govt. of Pakistan as “Biggest Kafirs”
Go and smell coffee.
Yes, Govt. of Pakistan does not have a right to judge anyone a “kafir”. It was all a political drama. Govt. of Pakistan itself does not rule by Islamic Principles.
That is part of ALL countries, in WHOLE world, there is no country which is “sin-less”, “corruption-less”. (there are certain countries where "monetary corruption is minimum, but other corruptions prevail).
Im no authority onAhmediyat, but there are some VERY intelligent people out there who are Ahmedi, and have studied it wrting and have not found any contradiction in it. Its all in the matter of nterpretat2ion and how you approach it. Im certain some of the more well informed on this site can counter a lot of the contradictions you speak of.
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Dear brother in Islam!
Please do read those books for yourself instead of expecting others to tell you; Just like we read Quran ourselves and try to gain guidance.
As arghoon said:
Bcoz to my experience about 90% of them have no clue as to what there Promissed Messiah has written in his books....for some odd reason these books are not part of their religious studies (I don't mean the excripts, I mean the real books)....inform them in a Humane fashion invite them to ponder on this....The prime example of this would be, some one on this site earlier, sayin that he (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) never claimed to be a Prophet!! Which he DID!!!.... there r alot of contradictions in his writings...He with all due respect to Ahmadies has said things like "GOD makes mistakes, I am GOD, I am BETTER than Prophet Muhammad, I am Marry and I concieved Jesus, People who do not believe in me r sons of prostitues...etc."
The above mentioned points are worth pondering. I personally do not think that declaring Ahmedis was the right decision. There are although these questions which need to be answered because they are against the very foundations of our religion.
I just wanted to say earlier in a reply posted it states that the 'zakat' taken out goes to the organization. That is not what the prophet saw stated is zakat. Infact, i dont remember him mentioning an organization in any hadith. Along with this note aside, I would also like state that even hanfi, maliki, shafee, humbli, is being treated so strictly that if u are hanfi u cant follow shafiee etc. This was also not put down by the prophet....: 4 imams after me, follow them and dont exceed their bounderies....NOPE...prophet never said that...and theres a science behind it, but its wrong how we make it so that our great grandfather was hanfi so im not travelling in a group of girls with only one mehram cause thats shafeee......
one more comment, AAGirl you can respect all reliigions, thats waht our religion teaches us no doubt, however, you cant BELIEVE in all religions...that A CONTRADICTION on its own
