Before giving the example of caliphates of Ummaids, Abbasids and even the turkish empire, please read the Hadith from carefuly.
I am putting it in front of you again!
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The Prophet said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship."
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Don't you think the Holy Prophet are talking about righteous caliphs? Because he is asking his Ummah to take pledge of allegiance on their hands. And I don't think the caliphs or I would say the above mentioned kingdoms can be rightly compared to the first four pious caliphs in any way.
When all the writings of the Promised Messiah are kept carefully in view, the fact emerges clearly that his position, in regard to his Nabuwwat and his grandeur, did not dawn upon him in one sudden and swift revealment; it grew on him in a gradual comprehension, stage by stage, phase by phase. Before 1901, passages and portions, in his literature, where he was called a Nabi and Rasul, a Prophet, and an Apostle, in Revelations and Ilhams received from Allah, he interpreted generally to mean that he was a Mohaddath, a partial Nabi, the bearer of an incomplete Prophethood. In other words, in view of the generally prevailing definition of Nabuwwat, in which conception the bringing of a new Sharia or not to be an Ummati of an earlier Prophet were fundamental, essential requirements, he denied that he was a Nabi in the term. Words Nabi and Rasul in Ilhams and Revelations, he received from God, he took to mean that he was a Mohaddath appointed to a divine mission. Since Mohaddathiyat and Nabuwwat deeply resemble one another, the word Nabi had been used in regard to him, to intensify the importance of his mission. In subsequent writings, i.e., after 1901, however, he abandoned this interpretation of Nabuwwat, in the light of Ilhams and Revelations which could not be vested with the old traditional sense of Nabuwwat and came to realise that he was a Prophet. But he always took care to qualify his claim by saying he was a Nabi, from one angle, and an Ummati from another. After 1901 he never wrote that he was a partial Nabi or mere Mohaddath.
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When all the writings of the Promised Messiah are kept carefully in view, the fact emerges clearly that his position, in regard to his Nabuwwat and his grandeur, did not dawn upon him in one sudden and swift revealment; it grew on him in a gradual comprehension, stage by stage, phase by phase.
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can u kindly give me an example of one Prophet from History that started off as a Muhaddith and then received his Prophet hood in instalments or Phases....???
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There were only four khulafa e rashideen. (righly guided caliphs).
After that was mulookiyat..or family dynasties.. not caliphate..
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Destino do u know one of the reasons of the Split in the Ahmadiya movement in 1914...??? what was the relation of the 2nd,3rd and 4rth Khalifah to Mirza Sahib....???
Yes Mr. Perplexing, I know the reasons. And i know the relationship of 2nd, 3rd, 4th and now 5th Khalifah to mirza sahib.
We believe that there is no heirarchy in Islam. Whatever happens with in the institution of Khilafat is by the will of Allah. Any person can be a Khalifa. I would'nt be surprised if Khilafat shifts to Africa or Indonesia. Khalifa is the hand of God. Thats all we need to know.
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*Originally posted by Perplexing: *
I want to clear this misconception of people like Avg American girl...It does matter what u believe in...This is the reason Allah sent 175,000(approx) prophets in this world to guide people to the right path...and yes there is a right path...if there was'nt then there was no need for all these prophets..Prophet Muhammad before becoming a NABI, did think that there was a higher power, he never worshiped idols...but even after that he was given the message of Islam..why???
I am not goin to indulge in lengthy abstract coversations about why its like that....
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter. (Quran, 3:85)*
........This is the verse from Quran and I am sure as a Muslim u would not decline the authority of this book...Take it for what it is and abstain from adding your own interpretations in it...There is this new movement among the Muslims specially in the west...coming up with new views that appeal to contemporary society to feel more accepted..I would like to request people like that not to mis quide others in the name of personal views.....no one can make u believe in something but know what the truth is.....
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Perhaps I will be a loser in the hereafter. Quite possible. Today I am concerned with faith. I think God gave his promise to all of us.
God's promise is what I have faith in. It's something not tangible. Its a feeliing you have when you pray. It's something god graces people with. Even ungracious, undeserving people like me.
I know it. Because I know I could never life up to what God expects. Never Ever. But somehow I believe. I think thats what God wants. He wants you and I to have faith in him. Belive in god's grace.
As you have already mentioned that there are more than hundered thousand messengers sent on earth for the mankind but we only know about the prophethood of a very few (may be less than 40). Thats why nobody can clearly say anything about the rules fixed for getting prophethood. Allah knows better who should get the prophethood and how it should be awarded. Me and you can't be a judge of that!
Yeah Mr. Fateh Ahmad u r exactly right, we can not judge, but think and ask for Allah’s guidance, that we can!..the fact that out of 40 known Prophets (according to you 40 Prophets) have never exhibited this type of pattern is quite interesting…but any ways…Lets move forward, shall we…
According to the Holy Quran…
**" The most beautiful Names are for Allah, so call on Him by them, but shun those who deny His Names" (Qur’an 7:180)
**
The Ahmady website has something similar to this which can be seen at http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=351®ion=EN (but on this website the ayah number is 181)
Now lets see what Mirza sahib is saying…
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“Qayyoom-ul-Alameen (Qayyoom is one of the attributes of Allah), is such huge body, who has uncountable hands and feet and every limb is in such abundance that it cannot be counted, and has endless width and length and like a Leopard, this huge body also has wires which are extending to all corners of the earth.” (Roohani Khazain vol. 3 p.90)
*
The most bothersome thing about the following example is that Mirza Sahib says that “Woh farmata hai kai MAIN choron ki tarha ayon ga” Meaning Allah himself says…( where does Allah say this???)
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“That God, under whose possession is every particle, where can a person run away from Him. He says that like a thief I will come secretly.” (Tajilliyat-e-Illahiyah, Roohani Khazain vol. 20, p. 396)
*
Fateh Ahmad Sahib there are more examples like this but this is sufficient for the time being…
It would have been nice if your have also translated the first sentence of this paragraph. I don’t know that why did you omit the first sentence. The Promised Messiah clearly wrote that “just for the sake of visualizing it, if we can just imagine Qayyoom-ulAlameen to be a Wajood-e-Aazam (huge body of mass)”. He didn’t wrote that Qayyoom-ul-Alameen is literaly a huge worldly body. And frankly I realy can’t understand your objection about this paragraph.
Anybody who want to read the actual text, ‘Ruhani Khazain’ (Urdu) is available online at the following web address:
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The most bothersome thing about the following example is that Mirza Sahib says that "Woh farmata hai kai MAIN choron ki tarha ayon ga" Meaning Allah himself says......( where does Allah say this????)
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What is your objection? Is it about Allah giving Ilhaams and Wahi to the Promised Messiah or him coming like a thief.
Promised Messiah claimed to be a messenger and a nabi from Allah and as we all knows that Nabi do recieve Wahi and Ilhaams directly from Allah. Therefore I don't find anything objectionable in this paragraph.
ok Mister Fateh Ahmad........I think either I am just crazy or u just missed the whole point of the post..... let me ask u, r u ok with the fact that Mirza Sahib is associating ALLAH with a Leopard and a Thief???
It would be realy nice of everybody reading this discussion to go to the above site I mentioned in my previous post and read 'Ruhani Khazain' themselves and decide for themselves.
Mr preplexing. Before jumping to conclusion i have a question for you. Have you read the whole book or just that passage from some anti ahamdi web site.
Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) had spread Islam by his behaviour and actoins, but we here have no nerves to listen other and have not enough knowledge to convince other, if it was the case, we could have done it long time ago!
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Yes, that is very true. Our behaviour is one of the main reasons that here in the west especially we have lack of respect. Here in Holland, you have mostly Turkish people, and Maroc, not many Paki muslims. But the behaviour of most of the muslims here, is not as it should be.
It's one of the reasons our reputation is not so good... Not only fault of media, but also our own fault. What really is sad, also good, but sad for us who are born as muslims, is that many people who later became muslims, especially western people who became muslims, are often BETTER muslims than the one who were BORN as muslims... They take more care of the rules than us, and I'm often ashamed when I'm with them. It's up to us to improve our reputation. If people see their neighbours who are really good muslims, how muslims should be, they wouldn't believe everything negative that the media shows/writes.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by ?: *
I don't care what Ahmadi do ***, but should not be in the name of Islam, because they are not Muslim at all as declared by Govt of Pakistan, they can never justify it!
They must rename thier religion! We are only concern with name!
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Yes, I agree with that one! Same for the Quran. Why do they name their version of the Quran also Quran? They should give their "holy" book a different name, instead of misguiding illiterate people who think they have a true copy of Quran!
Fateh Ahmad Sahib.....I would highly appreciate it if you answer my questions directly instead of directing me to websites......I have stated this earlier, if the websites were sufficient we would'nt be conversing here.......I would take your response in the previous post as a consent (its ok for you what Mirza Sahib has said). In that case no need of wasting more time on this issue we move along.....
Last time I read the Holy Quran, it was the same given to the Holy Prophet of Islam (Peace be upon him). And I also believe that its the same as yours.
If you have any ambiguity please go to the following website and read it for yourself. Read from the very start to the very end and then decide whether you are right on wrong that Ahmadis have a different Holy Quran.
I am not forwarding you to any website, I am forwarding all the readers to the actual text of Ruhani Khazain. They can read it for themselves and then decide it for themselves. Or do you think it is wrong to read the actual text of Ruhani Khazain. As your objections are steming directly from the Ruhani Khazain therefore I though that it would fair if everybody could read it.
And about your allegations, I don't find anything objectionable in the writings of Promised Messiah. And I don't believe that in any way he was naoozobillah trying to disgrace Allah.
May Allah give Hidayat to everybody to accept the true and right path! Ameen!