A question to Ahmadis

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Buddy ! this will be my last post in this topic, hopefully ; as i dont like repeating my self again and again.

Muslims believe this (The red text)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and final prophet of Allah for mankind

Ahmadies believe this (the blue text)

Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) is greatest prophet of Allah, but he is not the last one. There can be more prophets after him and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is one of them

^ this brand new belief is unique to Mirza Sahab and his followers (Ahmadies)

Now frankly, muslims have no interest in knowing about his ( Mirza sahab's ) attributes and qualities.

Ahmadies believe that orthrodox Muslims are mis-guided.
Muslim thought the same about same about ahmadies.

None of Muslim Schools of thought ever had that belief ( the blue text) therefore I said that Mirza sahab did not follow any of the interpertation of Shariyah, but invented his own.

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So these so called Muslims Schools are greater than Allah? So these so called Muslims are greater than Allah and can call us Non-Muslims even though Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (saw) said: If you call a muslim a non-muslim, you aren't one either...!?

Aren't you saying he invented his own shariah? Which one please? Do we pray now 6 times a day? Do we fast the whole year? Do we allow to pray wihtout wudhu?

What a brand new belief? What happened to your brain, damn it? I don't get you. I try not to laugh, but I cannot stop myself. I'm so sorry...

After Muhammad (saw) there will be no Prophet, but Jesus - a Prophet - will return. So he can return, but there will no Prophet after Muhammad (saw), my mind is twisted now...

Frankly, many Muslims are now taking interest in Ahmadiyyat.

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This is needless rhetoric. I did not state any such nonsense. I just jotted down the difference of core belief between the two groups.

Do you have severe comprehension problem ? :hoonh:

Sir, with due respect please read and understand what i said with open eyes and open mind

He invented interpertation of Shariah. Interpertation of Shariah is called Fiqa, or loosely *Maslak. *He did not follow any of the school of thoughts in Islam.

Which is the answer of orignal question in post #1

There is nothing wrong in this. Ask any of your knowledgable fellow ahmadi and he will confirm this.

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

The prohibition of Takfir

Peace All

Please stop doing takfir on one another. The Ahmadis can be given other answers apart from going to the extent of takfir. They are monotheists and are people of the Qibla (meaning they direct their worship there) so please refrain from this name calling.

You can say they do not fit with the Ahl usSunnah wal Jammah … but to say anymore is dangerous.

There is plenty of scriptural evidence that Isa (AS) is alive in heaven and has yet to die. Leave it at that.

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He revived it brother, not invented. Are these Muslims School higher ranked than a “prophet”? What did he invent, what did he not follow? Answers please…

chemical peel__helppp
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Re: A question to Ahmadis

Thats what you believe.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

He is your prophet, you should follow him :k:

I look like Barbie.
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Re: A question to Ahmadis

Now this thread has got me confused. Dear Ahmadi friends, please tell me, what are the main beliefs that seperates you guys from the Sunni Muslims? You say Mirza Ghalib was NOT a prophet and he was NOT Jesus?

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You didn’t answer my questions. Still waiting. No Answer will prove you wrong!!!

@cricketplaya:

“We” believe that after Muhammad (saw) many more Prophets will come. You can say Saints.
Sunnis, Shia and whatever believe that Muhammad (saw) was the last Prophet, after him no
Prophet will come.

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

The core belief of being a muslim is what the Kalima states : "that there is no God But Allah and Muhammed SAW is His Prophet".

As a muslim we also have been told that the Holy Prophet Muhammed is the last of of Prophets. After him there is no other prophet. The line of prophets has ended.

That is our belief.

We also believe in the coming back of the Holy Prophet Isa and the Imam Mehdi.

These as a muslim are our beliefs.

An apple can call it self and orange but it will still remain an apple.

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

Yaar i have answered already so many times :rolleyes: , ek tu moderatory karo our ooper se 1 question ka 10, 10 dafa answer karo :grumpy:

What did he invent ?

He invented an interpertation of Shariyah

what did he not follow ?

I dont know, Dont know much about him personally

Ab please meri jaan chor do :flower1:

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

which interpretation of Shariah exactly? WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE HAD TO SAY! DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WROTE, HOW CAN YOU MODERATE SUCH A RELIGIOUS SUBFORUM YOU JOKER?

DO YOU EVEN HAVE A RIGHT TO WRITE BS ABOUT A MAN YOU DON'T KNOW?

PLEASE DON'T SAY YES AS YOU WOULD MAKE A JOKE OF YOURSELF AND THIS IS THE LEAST YOU WANT. SURE BET.

Aapa Aapka Imaan, Hamaara Hamaara Imaan.

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

  1. Jesus was lifted to heaven with a purpose and will be brought back finally to earth.

  2. The coming of an old Prophet after the last one had appeared would not break the seal
    of his finality.

I wont mention the 3rd point. It s senseless anyway.

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Did I write anything offensive about that man ? :konfused:

Tell me where, I will gladly edit it.

I was refering to his public views and teaching all along.

If you took it in wrong meaning then it is your comprehension problem, nothing else. Get some education dude, or ask someone to explain it to you :k:

If you think i am not doing this job properly, report to admin or start a thread in feedback :slight_smile:

I am here, Lets see some backbone TOUGH GUY :5:

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

So you can refer to a Man and his teachings without knowing him. I think you took it wrong tough boy. Aren't you offensive when you say he invented his own belief/sharia whatever?

Aren't you offensive when you say

'Now Frankly, muslims have no interest in knowing about his ( Mirza sahab's ) attributes and qualities.'

Yeah, you're right, I should sacrifice my materialistic life to find the truth! This is what I'm doing. Joining the Jamia.

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

I am not Ahmadi but I can answer the questions about what they believe:

1) Finality of prophethood is viewed not as a finality at all, based on the argument that khatim means SEAL not FINAL, (though final is connected to the meaning seal) however, SEAL is viewed by Ahmadis as a status rather than the end of the page. In that no other complete doctrine will be revealed, but aspects will be abrogated and modified and new injunctions put in place within the framework of what we already have, by people who will have the status of prophets because they will receive wahi. AhlusSunnah walJammah do not believe any wahi can come to anyone from now on. Upon the advent of Masih there will be miraculous events.

2) Miracles are not part of the belief system of Ahmadis in the same way that we believe in them. They refer to something that is a natural hidden phenomenon. This is a more rational and down to earth perspective of unusual behaviour, but we are required to believe in supernatural behaviour in that it comes from God and He can do what He Wills.

3) Jihad like miracles has been toned down to that of the pen only. This is a similar stance to that of the Ismailis. Likewise their interpretations of Isa (AS) being a general are not present. They see the references to killing swine and breaking the cross to be alegorical references only.

4) They believe the term Masih is a transferrable title. In that it is like a spiritual ora that manifests over people who are appointed Khaliph. In this way the first Masih after Muhammad (SAW) was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and Khaliphs after him carry the title KhaliphatulMasih in that they continue the legacy of Masih.

5) The mechanism of belief of the transferrable Masih title enables the fulfilment of the various hadith that even though the Masih (Ahmad) did not do such and such they can still be fulfilled in his name by those who carry the title as if it was done by him.

6) They believe in the possibility of other prophets after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad due to the saying of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, but at the same time they do not believe somone like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad will come again. They are working towards the utopian world spoken of in hadith when all the world will become peaceful. Their leaders are in disagreement with the idea of another prophet being plausible, for their own readings are open on this topic.

7) Thus their emphasis is on conversion not to just Islam but their version of it. They have a strong missionary persona and are very tightly knit together with very good initiatives of community support. Few of them mix with other Muslim groups but this now becoming more common. Especially with regards to learning Arabic and Tajweed.

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Re: A question to Ahmadis

^

You can’t answer any question as long as you are not Ahmadi.

It’s like, I can answer a math question, but I don’t know what math is!

You have zero knowledge. I’m sorry to say this.

Jihad doesn’t mean to kill the swine and break the cross. You don’t see the basics of our Religion and yet claim to know everything, especially about the Ahmadiyyat. What does Islam mean? Peace, Find peace while you are down on your knees infront of God. Beg for peace. Ask for peace. If you remember me, I remember you.

First lead Jihad against your selfishness, then come and talk about Jihad. Do you think Allah is calling the people to Islam with a sword. People like you make the Western World think that the Islam was spread with the Sword.

Isn’t it a miracle that the Message of God has reached the hidden corners of this earth? Isn’t it a miracle that people said this sect has no chance and will be lost after Mirza Sahib’s death? Where are we now? We celebrate this year the 100 year Khilafat Jubilee. Where is your God? Where are your Mullahs?

Supernatural Miracle. lol. You are Supernatural, too.

Why didn’t God punish us if we are liars?

Hazrat Ayesha (May Allah be pleased with her) said:

Say he was *Khataman Nabiyyeen, *but do not say that there will be no prophet after him. *(Durre Manshur, *Vol. V of *Jalaludin Suyuti)

*Hazrat Mohyuddin ibn Arabi has stated in his book, *Futuhat Makkiyyah

*Prophethood will continue among men till the Judgment Day, though a new law is barred. Law is a part of prophethood.

http://www.alislam.org/books/truth/finality.html

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Peace Numb

Actually I can answer the questions, because I do know about what you believe in. I know because I made it my business to know. I have attended a few talks and events run by the Ahmadi group and I have literature written/endorsed by the Khalifah(s). What I have written is not a slur, it is presented as fact. Simple distinct difference, no emotion in it. I have not attempted to justify why you hold those beliefs all I have stated that those are the differences.

Your post proves my previous to be sound and accurate, let’s analyse:

You say Islam means peace. I sort of agree. However, your refutation is based not whether I know about Ahmadiyyat or not, rather it is based on the idea that my understanding of Jihad is grounded in war, whereas yours is not, and you are using references and logic to support the view that Jihad is not ‘war’ based. You know I agree to this also, the difference is however, I also include the necessity of war in the equation you will nearly always shy away from this stance. Look at what I wrote and look at what you wrote … your anger towards my understanding of Jihad proves that I am right about your view of it.

In my previous post I mentioned that Ahmadis ‘down tone’ miracles. Let’s see what you have presented above. You are using rhetoric of interesting facts to equate as miracle. For you the word miracle is reduced to a poetic term meaning ‘interesting’. That is what I said in my previous post that is what you have kindly proven for us to see. To answer the question that you raised about 100 jubilee and how wonderous it may be. I still think it pale in comparison to Islam spreading through the world in the 6th and 7th century. Today after 100 years Ahmadiyyat remains a minority. It is not recognised as mainstream Islam and for some it is not even classed as part of Islam due to the finality concept being compromised.

About supernatural - I will ignore your jest

I never called Ahmadis liars … and even if you were why would God need to punish you if he lets all those non-Muslims get away with their heedlessness? Come on bring better arguments, everone knows that complete Justice will be obtained in the aakhira!

Though the reference you have given of Ayesha (RA) is not from a book that I have access to it still is compatible to the understanding of AhlusSunnah walJammah on the count that the prophet who comes after Muhammad (SAW) will be the one who has yet to die, the one that was raised in person, Isa (AS) ibn Maryam, not ibn Bibi Saleem. There is no appointment of prophethood after Muhammad (SAW), but prophet who was appointed before Muhammad (SAW) will return.

With regard to prophethood that too can be interpreted in a manner that is compatible with AhlusSunnah in that the prophethood of Muhammad (SAW) is continuous, though he is not here with us his legacy remains in the form of Qur’an (in tact) and hadith (classified). All ummatees all have a similar task to prophets too, because we are instructed to give dawah like the prophets.

So all in all … what evidence you have is interpretable in both ways, what claim I made you have proven to be true regarding your beliefs because you have been defending that stance. Do you still think I am not qualified to relate the Ahmadi belief?

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Sure. If anyone asked him a fiqh question then he was left with no choice but to answer. However, my idea is that all he followed Imam Abu Hanifa when replying to those questions.

Fiqh Ahmadiyya is just another name of Fiqh Hanafiya. Qadiani followed Imam Abu Hanifa, which is surprising for a person claiming to be a prophet/mehdi/prophet's image and what not.

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Peace

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Peace Numb

Without going into any detail all you have done is consistently defended your stance as an Ahmadi you have not disgreed with my discourse on 'what Ahmdais believe' you have only refuted the stance of mainstream Muslims. You have in no place shown that mainstream Muslims and Ahmadis actually believe the same on my points nor have you demonstrated how on my points of difference I have incorrectly stated your beliefs.

I am not using this particular discussion to go into a dogma debate about who is right and who is wrong all I am doing is showing that there are fundamental differences in the beliefs of Ahmadis from those of mainstream Muslims and the ones I have listed is a concise list.

I am not attempting to justify my beliefs nor am I refuting yours, however, you are constantly trying to defend your stance, why? I am not attacking your stance, it may be you have a better or more accurate understanding of scripture I am not arguing that point. All I am saying is that this is where we differ.

I could have shown where we are the same. I can do that too. For example, the prayer method is similar. The requirements for purda are similar, we all perform salat towards the kaabah. That is correct isn't it? There are more similarities but I have just shown what we differ on without really putting opinion into the equation. As for picking up the debate of whose opinion is better and why well that is a different argument.