A question to Ahmadis

The answer to your question is simple. All imams, since not being divinely guided, could have been wrong at one place or another. Imam mehdi(AS) is the one appointed by God Himself. He is here to lead and not follow any of these imams. Thus whenever there is a contradiction, Imam Mehdi(AS) clearifies it and his(AS) is the final word. All other interpretations that contradict Imam Mehdi’s(AS) will be wrong.

I never really understood why it is so important for these people to know how to tie their arms in prayer, or what “style” of beard to have?! reminds me of Mongolian armies standing outside Baghdad while Muslims busy were fighting over petty issues, one group calling the other non Muslim. BTW did you guys ever establish if the camel was a he or a she?

Here is dajal, destroying one muslim nation after another, killing and plundering at will and you want to ask Imam Mehdi(AS) how to tie your arms? Imam Mahdi’s(AS) mission is to restore faith in God, revive Islam and kill dajjal. He has provided the guidance and opened up the gate of divine light for Muslims.

But if you’d still like to know how to tie your arms, heres the link http://www.alislam.org/urdu/fiqah/FiqahAhmadiyya-Part1.pdf

trooper:

[quote]

Thus whenever there is a contradiction, Imam Mehdi(AS) clearifies it
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Since imam is not a prophet then must have been many contradictions. So now when someone claiming to be reincarnated prophet comes then he should explain those contradictions to his followers.
So which book of his, out of tens he wrote, fulfills this goal? Where is Qadiani's book on fiqh?

If Qadiani did not follow Abu Hanifa then he must have followed a combined fiqh of four imams. What was that fiqh which he followed? If it was fiqh-Ahmadiyya then where is his book on that fiqh?

[quote]
He is here to lead and not follow any of these imams.
[/quote]

Read the book your Ahmadi brother cited in second or third post of this thread. In that book, Qadianis says that his followers should follow Hanafi fiqh. If he is advising his followers to follow Imam Abu Hanifa then how come he not followed Imam himself?
The writers of this same Ahmadi book say that Fiqh Ahmadiyya is no different from fiqh Hanafiya, with slight modifications in few places due to Ahmadi beliefs.

Qadiani's following of Imam Abu Hanifa, a non-prophet, proves that he was not a prophet but a charlatan. Because a prophet can not follow a non-prophet. And Qadiani did just that.

All your other comments are outside the scope of the topic. You are mocking Islamic principles of fiqh. Did Qadiani do the same?

Re: A question to Ahmadis

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Even though being a Ahmadi I had no Idea we were allegedly following Imam Abu Hanifa.
My Question would be now, did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself say that we should follow Imam Abu Hanifa? How come if he claimed to be Prophet!?

I don't want to make any conclusion, but I guess it's not true. You yourself are saying that they r not following Imam Abu Hanifa fully. They modified it, but took the fiqh of Imam Abu Hanifa?

I question, what is the reason of fiqh anway? What is fiqh? The Understanding, the awareness. Which Understanding? The awareness of slaughtering Islam and having thousands of schools of Shia & Sunni people with different understanding?

Shia & Sunni People hating each other, killing each other? Is this the common understanding? The People of Islam had a different understanding!?

God established caliphat after Muhammad (saw) passed but due to the lanat which was in the head of many muslims, they divided the Muslim Ummah because of their difference in the Understanding! We have a caliph, what do you have? The Muslim League licking the balls of the U.N.

Numb:

[quote]
Even though being a Ahmadi I had no Idea we were allegedly following Imam Abu Hanifa.
[/quote]

Which shows why people follow Ahmadiyyat. Ignorance.

[quote]
They modified it, but took the fiqh of Imam Abu Hanifa?
[/quote]

They only modified teachings of Abu Hanifa which were in contradiction to Ahmadi beliefs. Otherwise Qadiani followed all his other teachings, and advised his followers to do the same.

Read page 13 of the book one Ahmadi cited in the earlier posts. Qadiani asked his followers to follow Imam Abu Hanifa in fiqh.

I understand Ahmadis now downplaying importance of fiqh. They have no choice left when they find out that their "prophet" followed a non-prophet. But did Qadiani himself downplay fiqh? If he did not do that then you have no right to do it yourself. It's only your personal opinion, which does not matter in the matters of religion.

If fiqh really is unnecessary than why wasting time on writing books about fiqh Ahmadiyya?

[quote]
what is the reason of fiqh anway? What is fiqh? The Understanding, the awareness. Which Understanding? The awareness of slaughtering Islam
[/quote]

Is this what people writing books on fiqh Ahmadiyya trying to do? Slaughter Islam?

[quote]
We have a caliph, what do you have?
[/quote]

Good for you. Butthen Catholics have pope, Buddhists have Dalai Llama, Nazaris have Agha Khan. So what's the point you are trying to make, and how does that point relate to the topic of thread??

Qadiani called himself a prophet and yet followed a non-prophet. That's plain laughable for a person proclaiming to be Jesus, Mahdi, Prophet's image and what not.

Re: A question to Ahmadis

what is your belief on people denying imam mehdi.. ( if he’ll be coming in future ).. if Muslim rejects him.. wat is your take on this?..

Why would anyone be called a non-muslim if he believed the person who said he’s the imam mehdi, the one prophet Muhammad PBUH Himself prophesied about?

When you believe someone else who will claim to be imam mehdi.. and other dont , will u accept if they call u non-muslim?..

and beside, there was never a person before Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS, who has ever claimed to be the appointed one from God,.. ( or im not aware of ).. a person who is so knowledgeable that he could defeat anyone in a debate, a person who not only could write poetry in His language but poetry and praise of Allah, and Muhammad SAW in persian and arabic… i tell u people.. there is something extraordinary in this person that you cant figure out unless u have a very neutral mind.

These days you see muslims bowing after dead bodies ( i.e : hazrat data ganj bakhsh ) and other peer faqeers.. different scholars give different kinds of fatwas on different issues.. do you really not wish there is one person at this point in time who would guide you to the right path of Islam ?..

For people who say He brought new shariah?.. well, tell me any new law that was implemented on Ahmadi Muslims other than the law of proper Islam.

im not sure if posting a video clip here is allowed or not and im pretty sure mod will once again remove my post as he did before but i would like to share with u all a video in which a non-ahmadi is praising ahmadiiya jamaat .. check it out.. i just wish every non ahmadi has a neutral mind like him..

Re: A question to Ahmadis

Bro the mod has nothing against you in this thread. He removed my posts too since they were not on topic. ;)

Imam mehdi will not be guided by Allah?.. if Allah will talk to him and tell him that you're the appointed one from me.. there were a lot of people before him who were very pious people like data ganj bakhsh etc, but did they ever claim that Allah told him he's the appointed one from Allah (imam mehdi as)? this is the main difference.. he has got to be considered an ummati nabi, and thus He claimed. Why are you guys have hard time digesting ?.. gimme a break now... you dont even have knowledge of ur own beliefs and here u are accusing ahmadiyya jamaat.. even your people also believe that he'll be an ummati nabi.. go ask any mullah and he'll tell u.

ok fine, lets just assume he wont be a prophet.. and here is Jesus AS ( a prophet ) descended right from sky and offering His prayer ( the Muslim way ) behind Imam Mehdi ( who is not a prophet ).. does that even make sense to you , my friend?

lol.. ah i c, nevermind then :).. thanks for clarifying..

Please don’t remove this post. Thank You. Freedom of Speech!

This mythical image of Jesus is evidently created by their same tendency to over-literalize prophecies. Evidently they do not care what price they have to pay for the folly of rejecting reason and rationality. To Jesus Christ they assign the task of salvaging whatever remains of the dignity and honour of Islam in the latter days. It will be he, they believe, who will launch a single-handed powerful offensive against the anti-Christ on a global scale. Having roundly defeated and destroyed the anti-Christ—the one-eyed monster, Jesus will hand over the keys of his world dominion to the people of Islam, and will also distribute the immense treasure and riches which he will have amassed. Thus all the spoils of his war against the anti-Christ will he lay at the feet of the Muslim Ummah.

HAVING RESOLVED their political and economic problems, he will turn his full attention to such prophecies as relate to religion. He will start by launching his campaign against Christianity. His strategy will be to break every cross in the world, whatever material it is made of. He will visit every cathedral, every monastery, every church, every temple, every Christian hermitage. He will walk every street of every township and stare at every passer-by in search of any cross. Ladies perhaps will become the prime object of his scrutiny because he will be aware of their despicable habit of having crosses engraved upon their jewellery and ornaments. He will take care of the fact that they also wear crosses hanging around their necks. Thus he will snatch away every bangle, every bracelet, every pendant and earring with the sign of the cross upon it. Woe to the ladies who dare to cross the path of that Jesus, but where can they escape and hide, the poor defenceless wretches? He will enter every house and search every cabinet and jewellery box. Every wall and every corner will be scanned. Crosses must be literally broken and wiped out from the face of earth. Until he has accomplished this task to the full he will not rest in peace. This is the vision of the Muslim orthodoxy of the mission of Jesus Christ if ever he returns to earth, but that is not all.

Having completely disposed of the symbol of Trinity, he would then turn to another task which prophecies assign to him, if they are taken literally. He will lose no time in beginning to kill every non-Muslim inhabiting the world. Either they must convert to Islam or they must die—these will be their only options. He will go about this slaughtering business in a rather unusual way. He will breathe fire like a mythical dragon, while no myth has ever presented such a dragon before, even in the wildest tales of fantasy. His blazing breath will scorch to death innumerable infidels even when they are miles away from him. Those within the reach of his sword, will have their heads stricken off and made to roll. He will identify them unmistakably because on the forehead of each non-believer would appear the imprint in bold: Al-Kafir, the non-believer. Thus he will leave none alive except the Muslims, and the de-Christianized Christians of course, who will be left without a single cross to worship. Hence the curtain will fall upon this unique carnage by the imaginary Jesus, filling the entire earth with fetid odour, an obnoxious stench of rotting bodies, some slaughtered, some scorched to death. Hatred will generate more hatred, bloodshed will lead to more bloodshed.

The imaginary Jesus as painted by Christian artists, is shown in the vision of the Muslim orthodoxy as carrying a sword in hand during the carnage of the swine.

THE LAST GORY ACT of Jesus upon the earth will be to annihilate the species of swine. No quarter will be granted to pigs. All boars and all sows and all their brood will be put to the sword—each one of them. Hand on sword, fire in breath, Jesus will visit every township, every village, every street, every house, every shack and every sty in search of the hiding rascals. He will visit every wilderness, will thrash all the bushes of Africa, and will hunt for them in the rain-forests of South America. China will not be spared for that matter, nor will Japan. The islands of the South Pacific will also be combed where the flesh of pig is considered a highly prized delicacy.

Evidently no prophet of God in the entire history of mankind has ever performed such bloody, filthy feats as are attributed to the Jesus Christ envisioned by the Muslim orthodoxy. This is what the clergy in Islam have done to the profound wisdom of the Holy Prophetsa. They have failed to penetrate across the bodies of letters to reach the soul and spirit of the prophecy they contained.

The real task assigned to the Promised Christ in this prophecy was to purify the human society from inhuman behaviour and some evil habits which the swine symbolizes. There are many animals and birds which steal the fruits of the farmer’s labour for the sake of their survival but do not destroy the crops and trees just for the fun of it. The swine stands out among all the animals in this destructive tendency. The swine is also notorious for eating the corpses of its young ones. No other non-marine animals are known to devour their young ones when they die. A bloodthirsty lion, or even a ferocious wolf, will rather die of hunger, woefully sitting beside the dead bodies of their brood, than to even dream of eating their flesh. Dogs do not eat the corpses of their dead puppies either. Pigs and boars, it should be remembered, are vegetarians, yet by some devilish instinct they relish eating the corpses of their young ones. Evidently therefore, the message implied in this prophecy has to be to wage a Holy War against the perverted habit of humans to be inclined to genocide and to feel free to usurp the rights of the weak. The pig’s habit of eating its own piglets could be likened to the child abuse of the modern age. Child abuse may be directed against one’s own children or against the children of others, either way it is swinish in character. Recently it has become a subject of common talk in modern society, so needs no further elaboration. No other animal can match humans in this ugliness.

War against evil has always been the occupation of prophets. As such, Jesus Christ in his second advent would be no oddity among them if his second advent is understood to be metaphorical. But a Jesus such as the one who is idolized by the Muslim clergy—a literal murderer of the swine—is what they need and await to welcome. The moment this apple of their eyes arrives and discharges his task of eliminating the pig species from the animal kingdom, he must needs be applauded. So will he be applauded and befitting homage would be paid to his last glorious days spent on the planet earth.

Glory be to Lord Jesus will be chanted over sea, over land, over hill, over dale. The church bells will not toll for the carnage he will make but the minarets will resound with the shouts of the Muezzin heard far and wide, Allah-O-Akbar, Allah-O-Akbar, God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest—and glory be to our saviour the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lastly, before Jesus’ departure from earth, there is yet another highly important business for him to conduct, but in this he must be assisted by the Mullah. Throughout it has been only Jesus Christ serving the cause of the Mullah. Let the Mullah serve his cause now, for once at least! All that Jesus would demand of the Mullahs after his global exploits would be to help him in the task of getting married. After the ruinous trail of rampage and bloodshed that he would have left behind, marriage would not be an unwelcome change for him.
If the Mullah has any serious regard for the literal fulfilment of prophecies he must find him a highly gifted young Muslim damsel who should not fail to bear him children. Christ is about to be married! Some great Mullah must be found to read his wedding sermon and enquire from the would be father-in-law of Christ if he consents to give the hand of his daughter to that of Jesus. After his consent would come the turn of Jesus, at last, to confirm the proposed marriage.

What happy moments, what ecstasy! After a celibacy of two thousand years or more he would stand up and nod his head in affirmation “Yes I do, O loving Mullah, yes I do”. In what better manner could the exploits of Jesus Christ be celebrated than that! From North to South, from East to West, hymns will be sung in his praise and marriage songs will fill the air with their sweet melody. All that is left for him is to hopefully wait for the delivery of his blessed first-born with a holy string of other sons and daughters to follow. Thus by producing children at the ripe old age of two thousand years plus, he will create the greatest of all the miracles he had ever worked. His spirit has always been strong but the flesh too would not lag behind in strength it seems. What a miracle indeed that the passage of time makes him grow even stronger, while old age is left buried far behind in the land of his youthful first advent. Finally, the hour of death will arrive, but what a glorious enviable death it will be! Blessed be the day he was born and blessed be the way he will die.

This is the enchanting tale of Jesus which, if ever realised, the Mullahs will always tell their pupils in every Madrasah of Islamic instruction, year after year, generation after generation.


Note from moderator :


This post will be removed in 24 hours as it does not pertain to the topic at hand. All such posts have been removed, I can not let this thread dis-integrate into side topics. Please start a new topic if you wish. thnaks :flower1:

Frozen Fire:

[quote]
he has got to be considered an ummati nabi, and thus He claimed.
[/quote]

The objection raised is not on his being an "ummati nabi", but on his following a non-prophet, that is Imam Abu Hanifa, in the matters of fiqh.

Most followers of Qadiani here have hard time digesting that he followed Abu Hanifa, for the above obvious reason. But if Qadiani did not follow Abu Hanifa then they should produce his own work on fiqh Ahmadiyya. Unfortunately, such work is not available. This proves that Qadiani followed Abu Hanifa, who was a non prophet.

[quote]
ok fine, lets just assume he wont be a prophet.. and here is Jesus AS ( a prophet ) descended right from sky and offering His prayer ( the Muslim way ) behind Imam Mehdi ( who is not a prophet ).. does that even make sense to you , my friend?
[/quote]

I can talk at length on this issue, but I would ask you not to digress from the topic of the thread.

Simply put, the question is: Which fiqh did Qadiani follow?

Please have some fear of Allah. You have been given answer to this at least half a dozen times. You keep repeating the same question again and again for the sake of attacking Ahmadiat.

Once again, he(AS) is Massih-e-Maood, and THE Jesus of the later days prophesied by Holy Prophet(SA). He is a "Umati" nabi and receive revelations from Allah. His status is above the four imams that you mention, since he(AS) was divinely appointed. So, were ever you find a contradiction between "fiqh" of imam Abu Hanifa and Masih-e-Mahood(AS), fallow the later, without any doubt. Now I understand that he might have said to follow Imam Abu Hanifa, and that you should. But if there is a contradiction, you would follow Masih-e-Maood. So when you wanna tie your arms in Salat, check what Abu Hanifa says, then check what Masih-e-Maood(AS) says, then if there is a contradiction, tie em the way Masih-e-Maood(AS) tells you to. Makes sense?

BTW I noticed you keep referring to him as only Qadiani? His name is Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS), and if you have hard time saying that since you are a non-believer, you can simply call him Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. you show so much hate towards a person who preached "love for all, hatred for none".

trooper, Prince is asking that exact same of what you just said, how do you know there is a contradiction? DID Mirza Saheb write a book on fiqh? To find out a contradiction you got to have the man’s work on hand..

Also, wasn’t he a Qadiani? :rolleyes: I mean, you refer one from Deoband, India as a Deobandi, you refer Ulema from these cities as Deobandi/Barelvi Ulema, why can’t we refer Mirza sahab as Qadiani where is the disrespect please tell…

One thing, PLEASE do not label yourself as AHMADI, you are just confusing the people out there.

Re: A question to Ahmadis

Froz fire...
good replay... and all other ahmadys here... you have done good job... :)

Re: A question to Ahmadis

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Our job isn't done yet, we have alot to do...and we will insha'allah succeed. Ameen. Summa'Ameen.

Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad (May Allah give him strength) already foretold us that worldshaking things will happen during his caliphat.

Peace Numb

I find this statement very interesting. What exactly has been foretold and how comes Mirza Masroor Sahib knows about what is going to happen?

Re: A question to Ahmadis

I think Mirza Sahib (May Allah give him the strength) is the caliph of 200 Mio. Ahmadi-Muslims.
200 Mio. more or less are followers of this Man. I want to raise a question and ask our ‘enemies’ that are we really that blind and follow lies? The people who said ‘we accept’ and did the Bai’at on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s Sahib’s hand, were they blind? Can you even imagine what they sacrificed?

Mirza Masroor is divine leader. It hurts seeing these ‘brutal verbal’ attacks against us and it wonders me the more that this is not the Islam our beloved Rasool Muhammad Mustafa (saw) preached.

Our Rasool (saw) had to leave his hometown Mecca and lived for 3 years with his few follower with grass and water. Hazrat Khadija (May Allah be pleased with her) died during this period. Can you imagine what our Prophet (saw) had gone through?

Another question rises, did he lead any Jihad. We Ahmadies are the best example that we follow(ed) the teachings of the true Islam without questioning Non-Ahmadi Muslims belief. What they do, what they preach, this is between Allah and them. We can only preach peace. What do you want to do? Throw stones and then face the steel jacket of our true ‘enemies’ who want to erase the name of Islam from this earth?

Knowledge has Might, Not the Sword and No, Islam hasn’t been spread with the Sword and will never be.

As far as I know, Mirza Sahib has foretold that more wars are to come, earthquakes which will shake the world which the world hasn’t seen yet, the crime rates will rise, rape cases, governments will (try to) trick each other, poverty will raise, disrespect will take place, ‘holy’ religious ‘wars’ will be led in the name of God.

  • It was forbidden for us to say “Assalamo Alaikum”
  • It was forbidden for us to speak the Kalima
  • It was forbidden for us to write down the Kalima on the Mosque
  • It was forbidden for us to pray
  • It was forbidden for us to to recite the Qur’an
  • It was forbidden for us to do the Adhan

Thank You Pakistan

My post might go off-topic, but really Excuse Me

A caliph has a contact to Allah via Dreams and Dua’s. Our National Amir Sahib Germany wrote in a Special Edition that he got instructions foretold by the late Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad in his dreams. (May Allah be pleased with him) who was a ‘Man of God’… side note: A German trying to spread the message of love as the head of Ahmadiyya Jamaat Germany…

Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad (May Allah give him strength) has a living contact with Allah. Allahs tells him what will happen by showing him dreams and giving him signs. Do you think he has a remote control and is controlling the head of 200 Mio. people? C’mon :konfused:

After 700 years the first Mosque in Spain was built again. Who built it? The Ahmadi-Muslims. And No I’m not proud or saying we are great and you should lick our feet, No, we did something for Islam. Allah will please us, not the people around us.

What is Saudi Arabia the homeland of Islam doing? :konfused: They got he Oil, the mighty resource everyone is figthing for. Does Saudi Arabia care if Iraq gets attacked, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt and all the other Muslim countries as long as they have the Oil and can fulfill their evil demands with belly dancers, hash, khat, alcohol?

Muslim League? Lanti League

This is the scenario which was a daily routine in Saudia Arabia at the time of our Prophet (saw)
Drinking from morning till evening, burying their daughters alive, treating women as a second class product > sex object.** Kitni Lanteyn Khuda Ki Parri Hain and still we don’t want to learn!?
Calling each other Kafir.
**

Enough said.

Peace Brother, Ramazan Mubarik :slight_smile:

Re: A question to Ahmadis

Numb, I really don't care how many you are in number..

All I know is that Ghulam Ahmad said that whoever does not believe in him and his teachings is KAFIR.

That just sums up the Qadiani cult.

Re: A question to Ahmadis

And then it’s ok for you to call jews, christians, hindus Kafir?

That is the Muslim Cult, that sumps it up :halo: I applaude you. Well said.

by the way, is kafir such a ‘heavy’ word!? what does that mean? It simply mean you don’t believe in him, you don’t believe he is the Imam Mahdi (AS), the promised Messiah. Nothing more.

Ramazan Mubarak :flower1:

Re: A question to Ahmadis

Numb Bhai... apne bohat achi batain ki hain...really ahmadiyoon par betahasha zulam hue hain..abhi tak Pakistan me koi ye danke ki chot pe nahi keh sakta ke wo ahmady hai sirf islye ke uska aur uski family ka jeena haram na kar dain--...
ye log khud ko musalman kehte hain aur inke lye do shakhs ki kahi batain Khuda ka darja ban chuki hain..ek zia ul haq ki aur ek bhutto ki,unhon ne hi ahmadys ko non muslim qarar diya tha..
is bat ko sab aise follow karte hain jaise koi hadees hai,aur Nauzobillah Khuda ne inse ye keh diya ho ke ahmadys kafir hain..jabke ye Hazoor (saw) ki hadeeson ko follow nahi kar pate,bas apne waldain se ratta hua sabak aur zia ul haq aur bhutto ki baton pe yaqeen rakhte hain.
Lekin Hum ahmadys jante hain ke hum sirf Allah talah ko jawab den hain aur kissi bhi insan ko nahi.Islye really mujhe aise logon ki baton se koi farak nahi padta jo khud ko musleman kehte hain lekin uski abc nahi malum..

Re: A question to Ahmadis

^

Thank You :)

That is just the beginning...