[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
*Why is it so hard for you to present that one hadith you were talking to me about... As i mentioned earlier the only reason I am asking this question is to get a better view, If Umar can introduce turaweeh as a bidat on muslims then he can prohibit something that is made Halal by Prophet... *
[/QUOTE]
'Umar (r) did not introduce tarawih. If you think he did, it is your responsibility to prove it.
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
'Umar (r) did not introduce tarawih. If you think he did, it is your responsibility to prove it.
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
Ha ha ha ... keep beating around the Bushes man... I didnt say he did... I am just asking a question who did... and like you claim if Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H did... do you have any hadith to prove it....
whats up man.. why dont you want to present the hadith you are talking about.. All the time i am asking you who did and an hadith to back up your argument... its you people who practice it.. I am sure you know how it all started????
Why can't you just give me a hadith and get over with it... rather then cookin lame excuses as to start another thread or asking me to prove when i just asked who did?
Insaniyat please dont be a jack-youknowwhat. If you’re being told to NOT pollute this thread with taraweeh questions, why cant you understand that?
Here are the relevant references: Taraweeh Prayers
hmmm…talking about turaweeh is pollutingg… I asked a simple question and it was too hard for you people to handle and you want to argue shia’s…
Rather we should ask whether it was one of the Sunnahs of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, because it was not done at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) but it was done in ‘Umar’s time, or was it one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)?
Sounds like an introduction of a bidat…
another piece of counter argument from the site(contradicting previous judgement ..something common in sunni books)
a weak argument and guess what the act was stopped on the fourth night… and was not done until Umar introduced it again eventhough Prophet stopped it…the way you sunni claim that mutah was stopped by Prophet Mohammad and later Umar reminded people of … and some say umar stopped it…Damm look at your on neck and argue with us…
you want us to follow a companion who introduced something stopped by Prophet Mohammad even though your own books claims that the act was stopped.
Look at your own issues man.. There are so many contradicting arguments among your own practices in your books and using these books you want to argue with us that mutah was prohibited by Prophet or Umar (who your books claims to introduced turaweeh, or introduced back something Prophet stopped) with so many contradicting arguments in these books even though we dont have anything that prohibits it.(too many contradictions among yourselves man).
shabaash insaniyat..these ppl would rather follow the sunnah of someone who was kaafir for the most of his life then the Prophet pbuh.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
What's plainly obvious is that you, like your colleagues, haven't read our books either!
It is "musnad" not "masnad".
Now we are being told, through this obvious misquote, that it was Abu Bakr (r) as well as 'Umar (r) who actually forbade the Prophet (s) himself from mutah marriage! This flies in the face of all the finger pointing earlier in this thread. Will Shias ever get their stories straight on this one? And who is "ibn Abbas Urvah bin zubair" - are you sure this is not two separate people? And are you sure you've actually read Musnad Ahmed ibn Hanbal? Obviously not!
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
lol app nay jo main any kaha us ka jawab nahe dia mujhay sifrf critisize kia hay ..
for the name i already wrote "sorry if its wrong
and u didnt get it
i dont belive our Prophet did it but your book says he did ..so u r going against your own book
and another thing it proves is that Umer and others were stoping Prophet and critisizing him who gave them that right
it shows there character
and sorry for the name or what ever it was my memory so ill fix and ill say sorry .........
Shiraz the website Ammar posted gave two arguments for Turaweeh
1. Umar introduced is and was proud of his innovation
2. Prophet introduced it and then stopped it and Umar introduced it back...
In either case man what right does he have that something Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H stopped to introduce it back on... Being a khaleefa doesnt give him a right of Prophet hood...How can his act be justified.If Prophet Mohammad stopped it he knows the reason behind it best, if he wanted it us to follow he could have asked people to follow after him... To me it would be more like sunnat-e-Umar then Prophet Mohammad. It won't suprise me man.. If umar could introduce it back he can prohibit something allowed by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by delight_*: *
for the name i already wrote "sorry if its wrong
and u didnt get it
i dont belive our Prophet did it but your book says he did ..so u r going against your own book
and another thing it proves is that Umer and others were stoping Prophet and critisizing him who gave them that right
it shows there character
[/QUOTE]
In case you still haven't realised it... what you posted was a misquote, from start to finish. You do know what a misquote is don't you? To the best of my knowledge, there's no such report in Musnad Ahmed as per your citation. If you disagree, post the Arabic text for all to see – but of course, you aren't going to bother to do that, are you? And then to compound things, you proceed to build your conclusions on the basis of that misquote... how ridiculous! Like i said, it's plainly obvious that you haven't read our books either.
Iqbal
Bihari Babu
I hope my posts earlier answered your question as to why didnt Hazrat Ali didnt fight for khilafat...after people elected their own khaleefa... but my questions remain still un answered..
keep all you beliefs aside and think open mindedly for a minute.
If the issue of khilafat was so important for some sahabas then the funeral of the Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Why isnt there any khaleefa now?
Why didnt Prophet showed us a light of guidance, when he himself said there is only one right sect that will go to heaven? Did any of you read Ghadeer incident????
www.al-islam.org/ghadeer/
Why did people like Yazeed became khaleefa? People who killed the family of Prophet, when Imam Hussain refused to give alligance to him and you can guess what would have happened if Imam would have gave his alligance to him. You know what he did with the ladies of family of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. What kind of muslims would kill a 6 months baby who is thirsty for three days?
Would all this have Happened if Prophet would have elected the Wali after him and not leave people to elect thier own?
Iqbal,
Tell me in the either case on the website posted earlier, Does Umar have a right to introduce something which is new or have already being stopped by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Does Khaleefa has such rights?
or to you people he is nauzubillah more Super then Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. to overrule something he has stopped.
Brohter your own books have contradicting opinions regarding your own beliefs how can you overrule mutah based on these contradicting books, when we dont have anything prohibiting it, and on top of it, the khaleefa who is prohibiting, or tends to be reminding, is the same person who introduced something new, or something stopped by Prophet..... Doesn't seem right to me man.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Iqbal,
Tell me in the either case on the website posted earlier, Does Umar have a right to introduce something which is new or have already being stopped by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Does Khaleefa has such rights?or to you people he is nauzubillah more Super then Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. to overrule something he has stopped.
[/quote]
I thought we'd eventually get to the bottom of your pretence that you are simply "asking this question ...] to get a better view"! You'd already made up your mind long ago regarding 'Umar (r) and tarawih - hadn't you? You couldn't care less about any of the hadith that you were asking to be posted - could you? As evidenced by your response to ammarr's post and subsequent replies. Amazing how you made up your mind so quickly that 'Umar (r) yet again was to blame, just a half hour after reading the article.
The article doesn't say that the Prophet (s) stopped the people from performing tarawih, only that he himself no longer attended the mosque after a certain number of nights out of fear that if he continued to do so this act of worship might have become or be seen as an obligation. That doesn't amount to a prohibition by any stretch of the imagination. The article itself alluded to this by stating, "he [the Prophet (s)] did not say that it is not prescribed." Did you not see that? People were already praying in the mosque individually and in groups prior to the Prophet (s) leading them in a single congregation, and they continued to pray in groups themselves even when the Prophet (s) was not in the mosque with them. So where's this non-existent prohibition?
Regarding your comments to Sheraz:
[quote]
**Shiraz the website Ammar posted gave two arguments for Turaweeh
The article concluded that "this opinion is da'eef (weak)"
[quote]
2. Prophet introduced it and then stopped it and Umar introduced it back...
[/quote]
The article never said the Prophet (s) "stopped" tarawih, rather it positively stated that, "he [the Prophet (s)] did not say that it is not prescribed." In other words, its performance may continue.
By the way, what is YOUR proof that 'Umar (r) introduced something new?
[quote]
Brohter your own books have contradicting opinions regarding your own beliefs how can you overrule mutah based on these contradicting books, when we dont have anything prohibiting it, and on top of it, the khaleefa who is prohibiting, or tends to be reminding, is the same person who introduced something new, or something stopped by Prophet..... Doesn't seem right to me man.
[/QUOTE]
Asked and answered!
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
shabaash insaniyat..these ppl would rather follow the sunnah of someone who was kaafir for the most of his life then the Prophet pbuh.
[/QUOTE]
even non-muslims wud not use such stupid comments for the highly ranked companions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
I thought we'd eventually get to the bottom of your pretence that you are simply "asking this question ...] to get a better view"! You'd already made up your mind long ago regarding 'Umar (r) and tarawih - hadn't you? You couldn't care less about any of the hadith that you were asking to be posted - could you? As evidenced by your response to ammarr's post and subsequent replies. Amazing how you made up your mind so quickly that 'Umar (r) yet again was to blame, just a half hour after reading the article.
The article doesn't say that the Prophet (s) stopped the people from performing tarawih, only that he himself no longer attended the mosque after a certain number of nights out of fear that if he continued to do so this act of worship might have become or be seen as an obligation. That doesn't amount to a prohibition by any stretch of the imagination. The article itself alluded to this by stating, "he [the Prophet (s)] did not say that it is not prescribed." Did you not see that? People were already praying in the mosque individually and in groups prior to the Prophet (s) leading them in a single congregation, and they continued to pray in groups themselves even when the Prophet (s) was not in the mosque with them. So where's this non-existent prohibition?
Regarding your comments to Sheraz:
The article concluded that "this opinion is da'eef (weak)"
The article never said the Prophet (s) "stopped" tarawih, rather it positively stated that, "he [the Prophet (s)] did not say that it is not prescribed." In other words, its performance may continue.
By the way, what is YOUR proof that 'Umar (r) introduced something new?
Asked and answered!
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
he asked them to gather as they used to before WITH THE PROPHET... it kinda implies the act was done with prophet mohammad P.B.U.H and was not followed afterwards... that why he had to command to introduce it back.
did you read the part where it said NOT DOING IT(does it mean it was stopped???) means it was not done anymore while Prophet was alive... it doesnt say anywhere that people used to practice it when Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H ...... where are you making these assumptions from man, ........ some other bunch of lies with no justification to justify the bidat's introduced by caliph?????
Rule of common sense man..... you command to start something.. when its not being done... if something is being practiced .. there is no need to command to start.... Anywayzz... keeping cooking up lame excuses to justify a bidat that was not practiced anymore during the time of Prophet based on the info of the justification provided by your Alims or whoever replies these websites.
man you want my proof of introducing new... read the article yourself and look at the points, which i pointed out... how can you not say its something introduced when it stopped during the time of Prophet Mohammad... the article itself stands for it...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
even non-muslims wud not use such stupid comments for the highly ranked companions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)....
[/QUOTE]
Highly Ranked ! ! ! First Justify Umar's right on Khilafat????????????
and the right to Allow practices that was stoppped based on the website Ammar posted ???
What makes him so highly Ranked???
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Highly Ranked ! ! ! First Justify Umar's right on Khilafat????????????
and the right to Allow practices that was stoppped??
[/QUOTE]
ofcourse its just ur belief that he started practices stopped by the prophet....
and as on his right to khilafat, he was the man who first, after embracing islam, went and prayed openly in the kaaba, without fear of the kuffaar....
and before whom muslims used to hide and pray, and some even hide their identity as muslims....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
ofcourse its just ur belief that he started practices stopped by the prophet....
and as on his right to khilafat, he was the man who first, after embracing islam, went and prayed openly in the kaaba, without fear of the kuffaar....
and before whom muslims used to hide and pray, and some even hide their identity as muslims....
[/QUOTE]
Its my belief.... I told you how i concluded those belief's man !!!
The same website posted by one of your sunni brother's man.
and i asked you to defend you... and you want to accuse me for no reason... Like i said i asked those quesitons to learn and how i concluded, you don't agree man .. then give me your justification it might help then accusing me for nothing.. I am not here to have a blind faith unlike some of you here man.... and all you said about Umar still doesnt justifiy anything.... all these things with references... you want to compare him with Hazrat Ali man...
He slept on the bed of Prophet Mohammad when he was migrating to Medina....
He was there to stand up in the battle of Khandaq.. where there was no other muslim to stand up in front of Umar Ibne Abduwad
He was there in the battle of Khyber.
He was there fighting in the battle of Ohad, when most of the companions, ran in mountains,
He was there performing the funeral services for Prophet Mohammad when some so called high ranked sahabas were trying to figure out who should be khaleefa.. even though at the event of Ghadeer Prophet gave wilayat to Hazrat Ali... All this un-referenced thing you said about Umar doesnt show much man... and it was the son of Ali who defended Islam from cruel intentions of khaleefa Yazeed and by sacrificing his family in the way of Allah to reveal his true identity to the people
You don't agree with me just let me know...
i really consider it an insult to Hazrat Ali (ra) that u think he was coward enuff to sit quiet and let the reins of the government go into the hands of (as u falsely call them) hypocrites....
i dont even know how u mustered up all these stories againt ppl with who Hazrat Ali(ra) himself has been happy all his life, and yet claim to be a lover of Hazrat Ali(ra)....
Only if you would have bothered to read the post earlier… you would have known what am i talking about… I answered the same question as to why Hazrat Ali didnt rage a war or anything.. I never said he was a coward nauzubillah… how could you even conclude that… Check these websites out and you’ll get your answers as to why Hazrat Ali was quite man…
http://al-islam.org/nahjul/5.htm
http://al-islam.org/nahjul/66.htm
And you want to read about the Ghadeer Incident where Prophet Mohammad gave wilayat to Hazrat Ali check this website out
Man don’t accuse me for something i never said… here is my side of the story you wanna argue.. Justify Umar’s right on Khilafat and also introduction of turaweeh??? i have given my justification on all the issues based on my personal opinion.
May Allah show us all the right path.. Ameen
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
*how can you not say its something introduced when it stopped during the time of Prophet Mohammad... *
[/quote]
Let me get this right... what exactly is it that you are understanding here? That the Prophet (s):
Stopped his Companions (r) from performing tarawih altogether, whether individually or in a group; or
They were still allowed to continue performing tarawih prayers, so long as they didn't do so in a single congregation as he had done with them.
Or something else?
Iqbal
Insaaniyat
With all due respect, the majority of your views are coming from the pro shia website you keep plugging. They do not seem to be your views.
We can counter your claims by using a pro 'sunni' site and also plug them for free.
That will be too easy though.
What you should do is stand back and research both elements and then decide for yourself.
The meeting at Ghadir Khoum is an issue that you raise and we do not disagree with the meeting.
However, I'll give you some food for thought and give you the opportunity to find the answer.
The Qur'aan states:
Maryam (Mary) 19:27-28
27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
Which brother of Mary was named Aaron?
Once you find the answer to this then it will be easier for you to understand the meeting at Ghadir Khoum and the context of comments in line with Arabic language.
Secondly, the public gave the right to Umar RA to become Caliph and Ali RA also gave bayat. Ali RA did not have a problem with this even for the sake of Islam as you may argue, but at least take a leaf out of his book and follow suit.
As far as the Taraweeh prayer is concerned please digest.
The word Taraweeh is taken from the word "tarweeha" which means, "you rest". You pause between every two rakats or between every four rakats; you relax for a while. You don't stand up to pray the next section right away. Normally some people read something in between every two rakats and that is what makes it "tarweeha". You relax for a minute between every two rakats.
According to the Muslim schools of thought, some people saw the Prophet pray 20 rakats Taraweeh in Ramadan, so they pray 20 rakats. Others saw the Prophet pray only eight rakats and, therefore, they pray only eight rakats. This explains why in some mosques they pray 20 rakats while in other mosques they pray eight rakats. There is even a third opinion, which says that the Prophet used to pray eight rakats in the mosque, but he completed the 20 rakats after he went home.
Taraweeh can be performed individually. One can pray Taraweeh at home, but it is preferable to do so in groups to encourage people to meet and share the sacred month together. The Taraweeh, when prayed two rakats at a time, is exactly like the two rakats of the Fajr Prayer.
I hope now you understand why we have been performing this Sunnah for over 1400 years, and so did Abu Bakr RA, Umar RA, Usman RA and Ali RA, Hasan RA and Hussain RA!
Please join the club.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Another accusation on us without any reference... who said i am doing taqqiyah ... do you have any idea what a taqiyyah is man? don't just spread around rumors without any knowledge man... you can't even differentiate between the words compile and complete and you want to argue religon brother...
Do you even know what actually it is and when do people do it...... Think before you ink brother... thatzz a literate way... if you want i can sent you an article from www.al-islam.org that would help you understand the issue better and provide references.... Stop spreading rumors man.. please act like some literate.... if you are one !
Even if he did what does the name prove... ???????
Where did you learn that????
Brother any justification on if turaweeh is a bidaat or not... I wanna know to see how good khaleefa Umar was.. if he introducted bidat and if so is it allowed for people to elect their khaleefa's who can go around introducing bidat's. Why is this question being ignored????????????????
[/QUOTE]
assalam oalikum
insaniat bhai.......itni lambi post parhnay main he mera sara time nikal jai ga......
any way........
TAQIYAA
as far as taqiyaa goes i ll give the source from where i have find this concept of urs very soon.........right now idont have that book with me........
QURAN
all the refrences i have qouted r valid......if u r not getting them anywhere then go to khana farhan iran if ur in pakistan.....u ll get these books there as i did.....
book FASLULKHUTTAB FI TAHREEF -E- KITAB RUB UL ARRBAB is written by allama noori....whom khomeni considerd as mujtahid......
another fact.....jung rawalpindi 1987 12 dec.
"gov of punjab nay idarah sazman chap iran kay shaya karda tamam quran zabt kar liya hain kiyon kay un main tahreef pai gai thee.......ye idarah iran main arkari satah par quran shaya karta hay"
NAMES.....
it does proves some thing .........no one names his child after his enemy......it is very simple and obvious.......
hadrat MUHAMMAD S.A.W gave his two daughters in nikah of hadrt usman............
as far
Originally posted by bao bihari:
hadrat umer married hadrat alis daughter.....
refrence is tazkiratul aaimah
plz insani bhai just give me url of any site on assool e kafi and other hadith books compiled by ur people..............
as far as jamal etc is concerned i m with the opinion that both parties made ijtihad so no one is to be blamed ...........our ulema has written so much about it.read that.........
it is more important to discuss ur aqeedah relating quran etc then discuss taraweeh etc................................................
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
In case you still haven't realised it... what you posted was a misquote, from start to finish. You do know what a misquote is don't you? To the best of my knowledge, there's no such report in Musnad Ahmed as per your citation. If you disagree, post the Arabic text for all to see – but of course, you aren't going to bother to do that, are you? And then to compound things, you proceed to build your conclusions on the basis of that misquote... how ridiculous! Like i said, it's plainly obvious that you haven't read our books either.
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
ok in a day or two...