[QUOTE]
Originally posted by delight_*: *
ok in a day or two...
[/QUOTE]
Are you going to scan the Arabic? If so, make sure you scan the whole page or a greater part of it. Thanks.
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
Are you going to scan the Arabic? If so, make sure you scan the whole page or a greater part of it. Thanks.
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
one more thing delight........do mention the publishers name and address........many shias also publish our hadith books......they dont believe in theirs either but dont admit it
wasalam
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
As far as the Taraweeh prayer is concerned please digest.
The word Taraweeh is taken from the word "tarweeha" which means, "you rest". You pause between every two rakats or between every four rakats; you relax for a while. You don't stand up to pray the next section right away. Normally some people read something in between every two rakats and that is what makes it "tarweeha". You relax for a minute between every two rakats.
According to the Muslim schools of thought, some people saw the Prophet pray 20 rakats Taraweeh in Ramadan, so they pray 20 rakats. Others saw the Prophet pray only eight rakats and, therefore, they pray only eight rakats. This explains why in some mosques they pray 20 rakats while in other mosques they pray eight rakats. There is even a third opinion, which says that the Prophet used to pray eight rakats in the mosque, but he completed the 20 rakats after he went home.
Taraweeh can be performed individually. One can pray Taraweeh at home, but it is preferable to do so in groups to encourage people to meet and share the sacred month together. The Taraweeh, when prayed two rakats at a time, is exactly like the two rakats of the Fajr Prayer.
I hope now you understand why we have been performing this Sunnah for over 1400 years, and so did Abu Bakr RA, Umar RA, Usman RA and Ali RA, Hasan RA and Hussain RA!
Please join the club.
[/QUOTE]
Sholay bahi... another bunch of statements without any references... Where did you learn Maula Ali, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain prayed Turaweeh?.... Any references...
Iqbal, in the last two posts you were mentioning your own views without any references... you claimed that the article posted by brother Ammar said the Turaweeh was still prayed after Prophet Mohammad stopped leading but its not mentioned any where in that article.. I justified my part from the article in the earlier post, which justifies that even if Prophet introduced turaweeh it was not practiced after Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H stopped. I cannot find anywhere as to where did you learn all that from...seems like you are making a biased decision and ignoring the other side of the story..... Sholay all you said now doesnt justify anything regarding the matter if turaweeh is a bidat..... You are just describing turaweeh and on top of it claim Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain practiced the teaching without any reference.
Now let me give you a hadith from your own book Sahih Bukhari.... This is a hadith taken from a website of sahih Bukhari, Incase you need to read the Arabic text i can give you the link to it
Volume 3, Book 32, Number 227:
'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abd ul-Qariy said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night."
Now there is another hadith in the website posted by Ammar which is also referenced in Sahih Bukhari, which claims that taraweeh was started by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H only for three nights and then he stopped........
Two hadith's from the same book, which contradicts each other.. and on either case, If Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H stopped it.. The story is finished..... NO one I belief should have the right to overrule something Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. stopped and on top of it as Sholay said.. he is khaleefa appointed by people not by God... which more limits his right to do so... On what basis are you concluding that the Imam Hassan and Hussain prayed it... any references... and even if they did... your own books says the teaching was stopped as mentioned on the website by Ammar earlier......
My answer still remains un answered
If Khilafat was such an important issue then the funeral of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. why isnt there any oneits so important then funeral of Prophet MOhammad. How it came in the hands of people like yazeed who ofcourse and some cruel intentions... Thanks to Imam Hussain and his family who sacrificed thier lives in the way of Allah but not gave alligance to him. If it was such an important issue... how can Prophet Mohammad leave it for people to solve and leave some greedy people fighting for it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
With all due respect, the majority of your views are coming from the pro shia website you keep plugging. They do not seem to be your views.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
many shias also publish our hadith books......they dont believe in theirs either but dont admit it
[/QUOTE]
Sholay ... the sunni brothers were the one who were arguying all the time in this forum that why dont us shia present things from our books... and now when i presented one thing... the truth was too much for you to handle... Atleast the book i qouted from don't contradict itself... you want to argue the authenticity of the book... I would ask you too tell me something from Najul Balagha that contradicts itself. I dont get it you Sunni have the rights to argue mutah based on your books, which have contradicting issues on your own beliefs and we don't have a right to use our book????
Bao Bihari.. you own books contradicts on your own beliefs and you wanna argue that we shia belief in yours then ours... what a smart thinking man... another accusation by bihari Babu without any reference... before you accused us for forcination..without any reference...and look whose books are contradicting... Atleast bother look at your own stuff before spreading false rumors about others... I asked you one question about turaweeeh and you couldnt answer that.. but you don't have any problem spreading these false rumors. , and due to the lack of your knowledge in english you accused us that we believe Quran is not complete.. even though what your source said was compile... another lame accusation, then you claimed we shia belief that nauzubillah Hazrat Ali was supposed to be Prophet even though we believe him as an imam as i mentioned earlier the incident of
Ghadeer.... All this time you have been spreading out rumors and accusations wihtout any refererence... I am sorry man but i am not illiterate like you to have a blind faith on anything you say.. as you've been copying and pasting stuff from some anti shia site which accuses without any reference... I can give 100's of accusation like that man .. but i am not not an illiterate or a LIAR like you.specially when its the matter of religon.. How can you just keep accusing us without any positive feed back... Shows your lack of faith man...you claim to be a literate atleast think before you ink...
Sholay bahi the ayat you quoted .. i didnt get the point you were trying to make.. but if you are trying to say the Intention of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H to stop at Ghadeer calling every one back, make a pulpit and raise Maula Ali and declaring him Maula meant brother and not leader... then why would he make everybody give him alligance...doesnt make sense man...another Lame argument... if thats what you meant.
Bihari Babu which daughter of Hazrat Ali A.S. are you talking about??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Iqbal, in the last two posts you were mentioning your own views without any references... you claimed that the article posted by brother Ammar said the Turaweeh was still prayed after Prophet Mohammad stopped leading but its not mentioned any where in that article..
[/quote]
Here's what i wrote (quoting the article):
The article never said the Prophet (s) "stopped" tarawih, rather it positively stated that, "he [the Prophet (s)] did not say that it is not prescribed." In other words, its performance may continue.
You still haven't clarified, as per my last post addressed to you, exactly what your objection regarding tarawih is. Is your objection that:
Tarawih was stopped by the Prophet (s) completely, no one is permitted to pray it any longer, whether individually or in a group; or is it that
One can still perform tarawih by one's self, as long as one doesn't do so in a single congregation as the Prophet (s) had once done.
Or something else?
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
itself alluded to this by stating, "he [the Prophet (s)] did not say that it is not prescribed." Did you not see that? People were already praying in the mosque individually and in groups prior to the Prophet (s) leading them in a single congregation, and they continued to pray in groups themselves even when the Prophet (s) was not in the mosque with them. So where's this non-existent prohibition?
[/QUOTE]
Brother where did you jump to this conclusion???????? The article don't say that people continued to pray in groups themselves even when Prophet was not in the mosque with them...................... and if that was the fact , then answer this part of section from the website.
he commanded the people to gather together for Taraaweeh prayers in Ramadaan, as they used to gather with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). All that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) did was to go back to that Sunnah and revive it. And Allaah is the Source of strength.
If the practice was still carried out... Why did Umar revive the sunnah...
What you are saying completely contradicts the article.......
Now Let me tell quote again where did i learn from the article the that if turaweeh was practiced it was not after the death of the Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. based on my judgement from that article on
taraweeh...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Nah bro... i didnt had made up my mind for anything, I am not a SCHOLAR of ISLAM... all i told was an opion based on what i learnt from the website, thats why i asked and i guess the website cleared a lot of things for me.... and made me easy to make up a decision... i guessed you missed the point on the website where it said
When the reign of ‘Umar came and the Muslims became secure and victorious, he commanded the people to gather together for Taraaweeh prayers in Ramadaan, as they used to gather with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
he asked them to gather as they used to before WITH THE PROPHET... it kinda implies the act was done with prophet mohammad P.B.U.H and was not followed afterwards... that why he had to command to introduce it back.
Read at this part of the article man
Once the fear that it might become obligatory was no longer present, because the revelation had ceased, then the reason for not doing it was also removed, and so it was restored to its position of being Sunnah.
did you read the part where it said NOT DOING IT(does it mean it was stopped???) means it was not done anymore while Prophet was alive... it doesnt say anywhere that people used to practice it when Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H ...... where are you making these assumptions from man, ........ some other bunch of lies with no justification to justify the bidat's introduced by caliph?????
Rule of common sense man..... you command to start something.. when its not being done... if something is being practiced .. there is no need to command to start.... Anywayzz... keeping cooking up lame excuses to justify a bidat that was not practiced anymore during the time of Prophet based on the info of the justification provided by your Alims or whoever replies these websites.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
You still haven't clarified, as per my last post addressed to you, exactly what your objection regarding tarawih is. Is your objection that:
Tarawih was stopped by the Prophet (s) completely, no one is permitted to pray it any longer, whether individually or in a group; or is it that
One can still perform tarawih by one's self, as long as one doesn't do so in a single congregation as the Prophet (s) had once done.
Or something else?
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
For number 1... i guess the article posted by Ammar justifies it in a clear manner. Just bother to read the point i mentioned from the Article. Why would Umar revive the sunnah... when it was carried out???????????
Now taking the part if all what Umar did was that he commanded to practice it in a single congregation as Prophet did..... Its still a bidat... That practice was stopped by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and as a Khaleefa ELECTED BY PEOPLE NOT PROPHET MOHAMMAD P.B.U.H as been mentioned by Sholay... he has no right to revive the way Prophet Stopped..... HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE GIVE MORE PRECEDENCE TO UMAR THEN PROPHET MOHAMMAD P.B.U.H.... Nauzubillah.... Astagfirullah(arrmughal is it your definition of high ranked??)How can he overrule something stopped by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Isnt it an insult for Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H... how can him being khaleefa gives him right too overule Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H teaching
Iqbal can you tell me some other sunnah prayers that were lead by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H in a single congregation.. I am talking about sunnah not wajib? I am asking just for knowledge can we pray sunnah in single congregation too????
The interesting thing i noticed in the article is that its using a contradicting hadith to overule a haidth from the same book... the same thing could be used vice versa and justifies Umar introduced turaweeh as an innovation and not Prophet because in either way reviving a thing stopped by Prophet was a innovation
Insaniyat
Firstly, the Prophet PBUH never prohibited Taraweeh prayer. The Taraweeh Prayer is a Sunnah and not Obligatory, which means that one is praying to Allah and glorifying the Lord of the Worlds as an addition. The Prophet PBUH did not and would not ever prohibit the believers in minimising their worship and only sticking to the Obligatory.
The Prophet PBUH himself spent all his nights performing the Tahajjud prayers in light of the Qur'aan. These prayers are not obligatory but the Prophet PBUH still performed them.
Common sense dictates that no Messenger of Allah would believe that only his obligatory prayers are enough and thus forbid his people to worship Allah at a bare minimum level. Think for yourself.
Secondly, if the prophet PBUh worshipped Allah in excess of the obligatory prayers, it is only fair to state that all the Sahaaba and family members also performed the extra prayers with the Prophet PBUH! Do you really need a reference to prove this point.
Thirdly, the reason I asked you to find the answer for the ayat relating to Mary was very simple. It is a shame you could not understand or see my point.
The fact is that Mary does not have any brother named Aaron. This was just a figure of speech. The nearest to Mary concerning Aaron was the brother of Moses. This is the Aaron the Qur'aan refers to.
Why?
Because Mary was a descendant from the same chronology of Isaac and Aaron. This figure of speech is synonimous in the Arabic language.
In light of this, the meeting at Ghadeer was also a figure of speech.
Otherwise do you honestly believe that all 70,000 believers who were present at the sermon turnt cheek as soon as the Prophet PBUH passed away? I doubt it.
Can the only reason why you don't pray Taraweeh Prayers be because you believe Umar RA introduced this aspect. Not withstanding the fact that you are actually praying to Allah and Allah never gets tired of our prayers.
I'll leave this for you to search in your heart.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
it does proves some thing .........no one names his child after his enemy......it is very simple and obvious.......
[/QUOTE]
Brother you know Umar ibne Abduwad .. he was such a big enemy of Islam... and fought in the battle of Khyber... and Hazrat Ali was the only one to stand againt him and kill him... So i guess based on your logic... that name should not be used then.............. i mean based on your claim that Hazrat Ali named one of his son Umar, which he wont had if he didnt like Khaleefa Umar. Based on your dumb logic... Now should we conclude even though if he Killed that kull-e-kufar nauzubillah he liked him and named his son Umar....
Bihari babu... any more accusations to come without references.....???? The theory you use are just lame excuses.... The name doesnt prove anything..?I would advice you again and again think before you ink... It just shows how illiterate you are man believing on such contradictory logic. and you want me to belief on all this other accusations you make without any reference... Brother open your mind for a second and think ... what beliefs are you standing for???
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Insaniyat
Firstly, the Prophet PBUH never prohibited Taraweeh prayer. The Taraweeh Prayer is a Sunnah and not Obligatory, which means that one is praying to Allah and glorifying the Lord of the Worlds as an addition. The Prophet PBUH did not and would not ever prohibit the believers in minimising their worship and only sticking to the Obligatory.
The Prophet PBUH himself spent all his nights performing the Tahajjud prayers in light of the Qur'aan. These prayers are not obligatory but the Prophet PBUH still performed them.
Common sense dictates that no Messenger of Allah would believe that only his obligatory prayers are enough and thus forbid his people to worship Allah at a bare minimum level. Think for yourself.
Secondly, if the prophet PBUh worshipped Allah in excess of the obligatory prayers, it is only fair to state that all the Sahaaba and family members also performed the extra prayers with the Prophet PBUH! Do you really need a reference to prove this point.
Thirdly, the reason I asked you to find the answer for the ayat relating to Mary was very simple. It is a shame you could not understand or see my point.
The fact is that Mary does not have any brother named Aaron. This was just a figure of speech. The nearest to Mary concerning Aaron was the brother of Moses. This is the Aaron the Qur'aan refers to.
Why?
Because Mary was a descendant from the same chronology of Isaac and Aaron. This figure of speech is synonimous in the Arabic language.
In light of this, the meeting at Ghadeer was also a figure of speech.
Otherwise do you honestly believe that all 70,000 believers who were present at the sermon turnt cheek as soon as the Prophet PBUH passed away? I doubt it.
Can the only reason why you don't pray Taraweeh Prayers be because you believe Umar RA introduced this aspect. Not withstanding the fact that you are actually praying to Allah and Allah never gets tired of our prayers.
I'll leave this for you to search in your heart.
[/QUOTE]
Another bunch of accuastions made without any references..... Brohter all i said was in your own book... I didnt make anything up unlike you making up excuses to as to if Prophet performed it and his family performed... you didnt answer anything in regards to myaccustions made from the book all you are saying is just your opinons with no references.... Brother Its your book that says Umar introduced taraweeh as an innovation and then it contradicts itself and says Prophet Mohammad introduced and then stopped it and if you read along the site your ulema.. who ever replies to the question sayzz it was revived by Umar ... which in all wayzz is a bidat... All you are saying contradicts your own beliefs from your books on how taraweeh was introduced to start in the first place...i dont get you man.. i quote from shia book you have a problem with that.. and when i quote from a sunni book you dont agree with it either.
I guess you don't belief in shia books and i guess your own books arent that good to you either.... then where are you getting all this info from man... When you cannot prove if Turaweeh was introduced by Prophet Mohammad how can you claim that his family prayed it too based on assumptions..... What right do you have to first make the assumption Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H Prayed it and then his family...Like i said earlier there must be some source where you get the idea from...I can't have a blind faith on whatever you have to say which contradicts both the theories of your books.... All the justification i am getting is from your book and the article by that Alim on his justification of Umar introducting taraweeh.. which in either case is a bidat... Do you have a third contradicting view to prove your arguments... You didnt reply as to why are you ruling Najul Balagha (any contradictions in the book).
All this time i have been asking a simple question and it seems like your own books have contradictory haidth's on the matter,and i guess now you have these assumptions without any proper reference... you people cannot unite or justify your own act.. how can you claim that our practice is wrong based on your contradictory books.....
Brother giving the Ayat on Mary doesnt answer the question i raised... What the purpose of calling all the believers, just to mention that Ali is his brother and take alligance on it... What point is Prophet Mohammad trying to make by gathering so many people, makinga a pulput and raising Hazrat Ali ... just to say he is my brother and then make pople pay alligance to him on his last Hajj....Doesnt make sense.. another lame argument man......you know the word Maula has another meaning leader, which kinda suit more on the text ... where alligance is giving...your argument is too weak to buy...
You are making assumptions like bihari babu make assumptions that Hazrat Ali won't name his son Umar if he didnt like Umar... he had other enemy too whom he killed in Khyber, which based on the logic would nazubillah make him his friend too..
Brohter i am not asking for any assumptions you are cooking... I am asking a simple quesition to justify it.
Insaniyat
I did try in vain not to go down this path and was hoping that you could use some of the your own logic in order to uphold your position. Unfortunately this did not happen.
OK, your choice.
Let me now break it down for you so that there are no excuses from you.
Firstly, why do you when confirming Shahadah say 'there is no God but Allah and Muhammad PBUH is His Messenger, when the Qur'aan only states ' there is no God but Allah'. Where and on what basis did you learn the Shahadah adding the latter part. Bear in mind this has nothing to do with ayats asking us to send Blessings on the Prophet PBUH.
Secondly, for you not to understand or accept the issue surrounding Ghadeer and Mary confirms your lack of understanding of the Arabic language. In light of this, your whole ideology falls down concerning Caliphate. The Caliphate as you incorrectly claim was never given to Ali RA by the Prophet PBUH and there were 70,000 witnesses to confirm this. I've just proven this to you with a simple litmus test.
Thirdly, The Prophet PBUH was the first to establish the Sunnah of congregational, jamaa`ah prayer of taraweeh in the Masjid. Then he did not continue with the Sunnah for fear that it might be made mandatory on the Ummah in Ramadan, and they might not be able to do it. In the books of Bukhari and Muslim, 'Aishah (raa) has been reported as saying:
"The Messenger of Allah (saas) observed Taraweeh prayer in the Masjid one night and people prayed with him. He repeated the following night and the number of participants grew. The companions congregated the third and fourth night, but the Messenger did not show up. In the morning he told them, "I saw what you did last night, but nothing prevented me from joining you except my fear that it might be made mandatory on you in Ramadan." Volume 3, Book 32, Number 229
This hadith is a clear indication that the Taraweeh in congregation was not an innovation of 'Umar RA, the second Khalifah, despite his saying to the contrary. For it has been related that: "Umar bin Al-Khattab attended the Masjid at night in Ramadan and saw people praying individually in every corner of the Masjid with a few in groups. He did not like the sight a bit. 'Umar said, I thought it would be better to gather these under one Imam'. So, he combined them under 'Obayi bin Ka'ab and Tamimu Ad-Dari to alternate and lead the believers in eleven raka'ats of night prayer. The next dayUmar was in the Masjid which was full with Taraweeh prayers. He was delighted. He said: `Well, this is the best Bid'ah (innovation).'"
`Umar's use of the word bid'ah in this report has been presented and unjustifiably cited as justification for concocting up various so called good innovations. In truth, the Khalifah 'Umar's act to gather the believers in Jama'ah is not bid'ah. For it was the Prophet PBUH himself who started jama'ah by praying in congregation the first and second day, then stopped only as he feared it would become mandatory.
After his death, the fear of Taraweeh becoming mandatory (Fard) was not only remote, it was impossible. With the death of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH, there will be no more revelation to change any law or rule by abrogation.
I hope you now understand the actual A'Hadeeth in it's context.
Finally. Now that you understand the reasons why the Prophet PBUH had concerns for his Ummah. Can you explain on what basis do you not believe or perform the Taraweeh prayer?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Brother where did you jump to this conclusion????????
[/quote]
Based on hadith that you've probably never even heard of. And yet you want to point fingers after reading a single web site article. How irresponsible!
[quote]
The article don't say that people continued to pray in groups themselves even when Prophet was not in the mosque with them
[/quote]
The article alludes to the fact that tarawih remained a prescribed act of worship and that the Prophet's (s) preference for not praying it in congregation in the mosque isn't an indication on his part that tarawih is now prohibited.
[quote]
Now Let me tell quote again where did i learn from the article the that if turaweeh was practiced it was not after the death of the Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. based on my judgement from that article on taraweeh...
[/quote]
Okay, so your conclusion is that tarawih was not practiced after the death of the Prophet (s). How then do you explain these words:
Abdur-Rahman bin Abdul Qari said: "I went out in the company of 'Umar ibn al-Khattab one night in Ramadhan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a group praying behind him..." (Bukhari)
Now tell me, what where all these people up to? And this occurred before 'Umar (r) united them behind a single reciter.
[quote]
Now taking the part if all what Umar did was that he commanded to practice it in a single congregation as Prophet did..... Its still a bidat... That practice was stopped by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.
[/quote]
It was not stopped. The article that you are basing ALL your conclusions on doesn't say that the Prophet (s) stopped the people from performing tarawih, only that he himself no longer attended the mosque after a certain number of nights out of fear that if he continued to do so this act of worship might have become or be seen as an obligation. That doesn't amount to a prohibition by any stretch of the imagination.
[quote]
Isnt it an insult for Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H... how can him being khaleefa gives him right too overule Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H teaching
[/quote]
What is an insult to the Prophet (s) is your insistence that he stopped an act of worship when in fact he did nothing of the sort. Rather he positively encouraged night prayer during Ramadhan.
[quote]
Iqbal can you tell me some other sunnah prayers that were lead by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H in a single congregation.. I am talking about sunnah not wajib? I am asking just for knowledge can we pray sunnah in single congregation too????
[/quote]
Prayer for rain and eclipse prayer.
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Brother you know Umar ibne Abduwad .. he was such a big enemy of Islam... and fought in the battle of Khyber... and Hazrat Ali was the only one to stand againt him and kill him... So i guess based on your logic... that name should not be used then.............. i mean based on your claim that Hazrat Ali named one of his son Umar, which he wont had if he didnt like Khaleefa Umar. Based on your dumb logic... Now should we conclude even though if he Killed that kull-e-kufar nauzubillah he liked him and named his son Umar....
Bihari babu... any more accusations to come without references.....???? The theory you use are just lame excuses.... The name doesnt prove anything..?I would advice you again and again think before you ink... It just shows how illiterate you are man believing on such contradictory logic. and you want me to belief on all this other accusations you make without any reference... Brother open your mind for a second and think ... what beliefs are you standing for???
[/QUOTE]
salam to all......
well......why not shias use that name now............i know u are also sursrised by that fact but dont admitt it...............
yes much more accusations to come with referance of course.......
why dont u take references of ur hadith books about tahreef e quran which ihave posted earlier..........it is more important then any other thing to discuss whether u believe in tahreef or not................chek out the refrences buddy.......
here is what
Bao Bihari.. you own books contradicts on your own beliefs and you wanna argue that we shia belief in yours then ours... what a smart thinking man... another accusation by bihari Babu without any reference... before you accused us for forcination..without any reference...and look whose books are contradicting... Atleast bother look at your own stuff before spreading false rumors about others... I asked you one question about turaweeeh and you couldnt answer that.. but you don't have any problem spreading these false rumors. , and due to the lack of your knowledge in english you accused us that we believe Quran is not complete.. even though what your source said was compile... another lame accusation, then you claimed we shia belief that nauzubillah Hazrat Ali was supposed to be Prophet even though we believe him as an imam as i mentioned earlier the incident of
Ghadeer.... All this time you have been spreading out rumors and accusations wihtout any refererence... I am sorry man but i am not illiterate like you to have a blind faith on anything you say.. as you've been copying and pasting stuff from some anti shia site which accuses without any reference... I can give 100's of accusation like that man .. but i am not not an illiterate or a LIAR like you.specially when its the matter of religon.. How can you just keep accusing us without any positive feed back... Shows your lack of faith man...you claim to be a literate atleast think before you ink... }
what i said is true.......u think quran is not complete i have given u the refrence many times check that out..........may be u cant understand english properly..........
what about quran tahreef refrences i had posted earlier......
plz dont go any further unless u check these refrences............
yaar aik baat batao ya aurtoon ki turha kosnay daina kahan say seekha..................
i have written every thing with prove......now that u cant anwer it .........
i have copy pasted only onces.......... others r all from the books (shia )books that i have............
plz also give any link of ur complete hadith book asool e kafi....
salam........
plz kahanian na likha karo ............give me the specific points to answer and i ll do the same ..........in this way it is easy to crossrefrence..............
refrence about taqiyah coming shortly.....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
salam to all......
well......why not shias use that name now............i know u are also sursrised by that fact but dont admitt it...............
[/QUOTE]
ha ha ha another lame excuse .... doesnt give any answer to your logic... its upto us what names you like for your kid. You claim about Hazrat Ali can't justify it because his enemies had it too....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
what i said is true.......u think quran is not complete i have given u the refrence many times check that out..........may be u cant understand english properly.........................
[/QUOTE]
yeah a reference that spelled complete as compiles...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
what about quran tahreef refrences i had posted earlier......
plz dont go any further unless u check these refrences............
.........................
[/QUOTE]
a reference that i cant even find... Sorry bro i dont live in Pakistan to get hold of your books.. but i know one thing you yourself said you've been copying and pasting stuff... i donno what part of you to believe?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
refrence about taqiyah coming shortly.....
[/QUOTE]
You wanna learn about taqqiyah go to www.al-islam.org and search for the text ... it has an interesting article.
Aur haan beh bihari babu any feedback on your accusation on forcination or us shia believing in the contradicting sunni books...
Grow up Pal...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
Based on hadith that you've probably never even heard of. And yet you want to point fingers after reading a single web site article. How irresponsible!
[/QUOTE]
Another lame excuse... Brother what do you know, how many times i have heard the hadith... Bottom line is I qouted the hadith from your own Sahih Bukhari... and all you have to say is to accuse me for pointing fingers on something that i learnt from your bookss...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
The article alludes to the fact that tarawih remained a prescribed act of worship and that the Prophet's (s) preference for not praying it in congregation in the mosque isn't an indication on his part that tarawih is now prohibited.
[/QUOTE]
Brother you are again cooking lame excuse but for some reason again ignoring the things I pointed out again... Why dont you answer my question... What i said Umar doesnt have a right to revive something Prophet stopped... Isnt that what the alem of the website said...
no matter as to what the fact is.. if the prophet stopped the prayers as a single congregation or he stopped praying all together... Introducing it back after Prophet is Bidat by all means... Stop beating around the bushes man if you can't take the truth.. .I asked you a simple question and you are just coooking lame excuses.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
What is an insult to the Prophet (s) is your insistence that he stopped an act of worship when in fact he did nothing of the sort. Rather he positively encouraged night prayer during Ramadhan.
[/QUOTE]
I asked you and will ask again What else would you say Umar introduced which the article talks about couldnt be done in the time of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. what does it mean by reviving the sunnah of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Firstly, why do you when confirming Shahadah say 'there is no God but Allah and Muhammad PBUH is His Messenger, when the Qur'aan only states ' there is no God but Allah'. Where and on what basis did you learn the Shahadah adding the latter part. Bear in mind this has nothing to do with ayats asking us to send Blessings on the Prophet PBUH.
[/QUOTE]
What are you trying to implay, I dont understand what do you mean by shahadah??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Secondly, for you not to understand or accept the issue surrounding Ghadeer and Mary confirms your lack of understanding of the Arabic language. In light of this, your whole ideology falls down concerning Caliphate. The Caliphate as you incorrectly claim was never given to Ali RA by the Prophet PBUH and there were 70,000 witnesses to confirm this. I've just proven this to you with a simple litmus test.
[/QUOTE]
Brother rather then answering my question regarding Alligance and make sense out of whole incident as to what Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. is trying to implying by taking all the alligance for him being a brohter.... you are blaming my lack of arabic knowledge... doesnt answer my question... Sounds more like an excuse rather then justification.
i'll be back with other later... gotta go somewhere.
well not only hazrat ali had his son name after shabah also
hadrat hasan .hdrat zainulabidin had thier children name after shabah…no logic behind ur statement…fact is hadrat ali and others loved sahabah …(hadrat umer r.a etc) and u dont…give it a thought.
u cant find ur own hadith book?
plz prove that ublieve quran which we all read is complete according to shia believe…
salam
Insaniyat
I think we'll end up going round and round in circles if we continue.
I have no problem praying Taraweeh during the month of Ramadan and you have no problem in not praying Taraweeh in the month of Ramadan.
We both use our evidence in order to uphold our positions.
It will be good to just leave it at that.
Salaam.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
What i said Umar doesnt have a right to revive something Prophet stopped... Isnt that what the alem of the website said...
[/quote]
That's what the web site said? Are you reading the same article as everyone else?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
no matter as to what the fact is.. if the prophet stopped the prayers as a single congregation or he stopped praying all together... Introducing it back after Prophet is Bidat by all means...
[/quote]
I'll repeat my earlier question:
Abdur-Rahman bin Abdul Qari said: "I went out in the company of 'Umar ibn al-Khattab one night in Ramadhan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a group praying behind him..." (Bukhari)
Now tell me, what where all these people up to? And this occurred before 'Umar (r) united them behind a single reciter.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
You wanna learn about taqqiyah go to www.al-islam.org and search for the text ... it has an interesting article
[/quote]
Is this the same web site that calls a mutah wife a "rented woman"?
Iqbal
How can ppl say such hard words without thinking???
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
Are you going to scan the Arabic? If so, make sure you scan the whole page or a greater part of it. Thanks.
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
well i was only gona write it but if u want the arabic text ill try to scan it but on mon or tues
and ill give u the refrence u check it out ...i odnt think u will need the author or publisher if u find it in your own book ..right?
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by delight_*: *
well i was only gona write it but if u want the arabic text ill try to scan it but on mon or tues
and ill give u the refrence u check it out ...i odnt think u will need the author or publisher if u find it in your own book ..right?
[/QUOTE]
Thanks, i'll wait for the scan. Since you'll have the book with you, there's no harm in posting the publisher/edition details as well.
Iqbal