amazing..simply amazing..guys stop reading ur sahi sitta books if you arent gonna believe them completely..the hadith simply said it was umar who forbade mutah but you just wont admit it
jabir said: We have been doing this during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him), and then 'Umar forbade us to do so, and we never resorted to them. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Re: in circles
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Iqbal please stop twisting meanings of Quran and have several meanings for one ayat to meet your needs........ and you all have this misconception about shia's believing quran is in incomplete
[/QUOTE]
Please learn to read. I said there are three "views" as to how these verses might be interpreted. Or are you somehow suggesting that everyone is in agreement that the Qur'am permits mutah marriages?
Iqbal
here is a thought provoking and mind bogling discussion and opinion of resident shia on the concept and urge of Mutta… I still sometime wonder how some people even drag Holy Prophet (saw) to cover their lust. at one instance a shia in the said discussion says, it is the sunnah of holy prophet.. astaghfayrullahhayrabbi…
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39838
lahaulawalaquwataillabilla…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
amazing..simply amazing..guys stop reading ur sahi sitta books if you arent gonna believe them completely..
[/quote]
There's a difference between "reading" and "understanding".
[quote]
the hadith simply said it was umar who forbade mutah but you just wont admit it
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, Sheraz and his colleagues don't appear to have previously come across the narration which clarifies with additional details that 'Umar's (r) prohibition of mutah marriage was because the Prophet (s) had already prohibited it. This probably explains why they continue to ignore this report.
Here's something from a Shia web site whose link was provided earlier in this thread:
"Finally, another Sunni view on this subject deserves mention: Other hadith are recorded in reliable sources according to which 'Umar does attribute the banning of muta to the Prophet and not to himself. So it is probable that here we do not have an exact quotation of his words, but a paraphrase. Even if we accept the Shi'i claim that these are truly 'Umar's exact words, then it is clear that by his words: 'I forbid them both', he meant: 'I am clarifying their situation for you; or: 'I am putting into practice the view of the Prophet.' For it is well known in the science of jurisprudence that prohibition and permissibility are often attributed to him who clarifies the statute. Thus, for example, when it is said that Shafi'i forbids hadith but Abu Hanifa permits it, no one imagines that Shafi'i and Abu Hanifa are establishing these injunctions as their own. What is meant is that they are explaining the injunction on the basis of their own understanding of the Qur'an, the sunna, etc."
Iqbal
Re: Re: Re: in circles
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
Please learn to read. I said there are three "views" as to how these verses might be interpreted. Or are you somehow suggesting that everyone is in agreement that the Qur'am permits mutah marriages?
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
brother it seems like its the sunni brother's in the forum who are having this multiple views regarding the subject ... unlike shia's......
Just an honest opinion it seems like different views have been made just to justify umar's prohibition... can you please justify how are you driving these three contradictiong views based on the interpretations from quran????
but brother you are still ignoring the question i asked earlier as to did Umar introduce taraweeh in islam or not????
i just wanted to set up bases on judging if he is been known for creating such bidats in islam... and it will make it a lot easy for me to judge ... wat his intentions might be...
how hard is it just to answer a simple question...
bihari babu.. about the battle of jamal... to the best of my knowledge... Hazrat Ali asked Hazrat Ayesha brother to take her inside .. and thats how the battle ended..
salam to all
[QUOTE]
bihari babu.. about the battle of jamal... to the best of my knowledge... Hazrat Ali asked Hazrat Ayesha brother to take her inside .. and thats how the battle ended..
[/QUOTE]
why dont u understand(all shias) that it was a differance of opinion among the 2 which invoked war primarily due to rawafiz of that time who were shouting hub-e-ali slogans................
[QUOTE]
do you have any answers??? or u just have some lame stuff to cut and paste from internet which doesn’t answer anything. Is it true that Umar introduced taraweeh?? and if it is then is it a bidat or sunnat -e- umar to follow????
[/QUOTE]
bhai main cut or paste hi kar sakta hoon meray pass ziada time net kay liya nahin hota sorry if u dont like cut and paste stuff.......what i cutted and pasted was truth .true.......truth is always bitter for some.....
[QUOTE]
bihari beta if you wanna talk about the companions then open up a different thread....we are trying to discuss mutah here....did u miss the following hadith i posted earlier?
[/QUOTE]
sheeraz chanda..........main yahi to kahna chah raha hoon.........sahbah r.a pay baat kiya baghair hum koi decicison par nahin pohunch saktay...........
assalam oa likum
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
salam to all
why dont u understand(all shias) that it was a differance of opinion among the 2 which invoked war primarily due to rawafiz of that time who were shouting hub-e-ali slogans................
[/QUOTE]
A difference of opinion that made Hazrat Ayesha disobey Quran (Are there are any exceptions to disobey Quran)???
A difference of opinon that led blood shed of muslims
brothers these kinda differences are not something small...
for you it might .. its about who is right and who is not... and if you look in the light of Quran.. i am sure its not hard to find the answer..atleast for me it wasnt
u still didnt answer my questions... what stopping you brother...
did umar introduce bidat of reading turaweeh in islam...?????
it will make things a lot easier to understand him going against quran and prohibiting mutah... whats stopping you fellow sunni's from answering just a simple questions...stop beating around the bushes...
if you sunni's can't justify the comapion acts themselves.. why do you expect us to believe some of those companions blindly when truth is in front of our eyes?????
brother the difference of opinions won't have started if Prophet would have told us who is the correct light of guidance to follow for his sunnah..
Does the incident of Ghadeer tell you anything...
i posted the site few times now... and also asked if the turaweeh bidat was started my umar ... but none of you sunni brother wanna answer that... arent there any versions of a ayat that justifies it too Iqbal or bihari babu????
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
bhai main cut or paste hi kar sakta hoon meray pass ziada time net kay liya nahin hota sorry if u dont like cut and paste stuff.......what i cutted and pasted was truth .true.......truth is always bitter for some.....
sheeraz chanda..........main yahi to kahna chah raha hoon.........sahbah r.a pay baat kiya baghair hum koi decicison par nahin pohunch saktay...........
assalam oa likum
[/QUOTE]
Brother by saying something is true without any feedback argument doesnt prove anything... besides implying your illiteracy adn dumbness of believing what you are said... without using your common sense or having enough knowledge to back up your standing... can you provide some feedback under what bases are you making this assumption.. you might have a blind faith on these issues... but i am sorry i am not an illiterate.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
In spite of their slander being shocking and despicable in the extreme, it is not surprising, since they are the worst fabricators and frauds peddling their nafsaani opinions in the name of Islam and attributing it to Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam).
[/QUOTE]
I understand its a cut and paste job.. but hey before posting i would really appreciate if you could provide some feedback on this accusations rather then having a blind faith on watever u found on net....
Re: Re: Re: Re: in circles
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
but brother you are still ignoring the question i asked earlier as to did Umar introduce taraweeh in islam or not????... how hard is it just to answer a simple question.
[/quote]
I answered this question some five posts ago. Are you actually bothering to read what other people write?
Iqbal
Here's something else from the link posted on the third page of this thread. The link actually provides a dispassionate look at the whole mutah marriage issue, though it is weighted towards the Shia viewpoint. In any case, some questions arise after reading what the author has to say in the section on The Four Pillars Of Mut'a which describes some of the rules for mutah marriage according to Shia jurisprudence.
The relevant excerpt reads:
"It is also reprehensible, without any exceptions, to contract a temporary marriage with a virgin, by reason of the words of the Imam Ja'far: 'It is reprehensible, because it is a stain upon her family.' If a contract should nevertheless be concluded, it is not permissible for the man to consummate the marriage, unless the marriage took place with the permission of her father-a condition almost impossible to imagine in Muslim society. 'A virgin may not be married temporarily without her father's permission' (the Imam al-Rida)." (references omitted)
- Does this accurately reflect the Shia ruling on mutah marriage?
If so:
A. Why does it amount to a "stain upon her [the virgin's] family" if she contracts a mutah marriage?
B. For those who presently allow mutah from a Qur'anic perspective, is such a restriction found in the Qur'an itself? Namely, that it is "reprehensible, without any exceptions, to contract a temporary marriage with a virgin"?
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
B. For those who presently allow mutah from a Qur'anic perspective, is such a restriction found in the Qur'an itself? Namely, that it is "reprehensible, without any exceptions, to contract a temporary marriage with a virgin"?
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
Brother i dont know the exact source about this context and things.. because i have never looked into the details but tell me Quran asks us to pray Namaz... does it tell you how to pray?????
and yeah about the turaweeh? can you please provide some feedback as to what source are you basing your judgement on the introduction of turaweeh????
and yeah also some feedback on what bases are you driving three contradictiong views from quran?????...
babu behari... any feedback on the accusations you made from that cut and paste post...... do you having any things to back up the argument i asked for in the earlier post????
any feedback on the battle of jamal????
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
Brother i dont know the exact source about this context and things.. because i have never looked into the details but tell me Quran asks us to pray Namaz... does it tell you how to pray?????
[/quote]
I take it then that you disagree with Sheraz's earlier comment that the "Holy Quran is complete"? Am i right in understanding therefore that as regards mutah marriage there's no prohibition in the Qur'an about marrying virgins and that for this particular detail Shias look elsewhere? Do you want more time check this out?
My other question was:
Why does it amount to a "stain upon her [the virgin's] family" if she contracts a mutah marriage?
[quote]
and yeah about the turaweeh? can you please provide some feedback as to what source are you basing your judgement on the introduction of turaweeh????
[/quote]
The excellence of night prayer in Ramadhan is emphasised by the Prophet (s) in a hadith in Bukhari and Muslim. He himself prayed this night prayer in Ramadhan both individually and in congregation for a few days in the mosque as confirmed by various reports (also in Bukhari and a host of other works). He also allowed others to perform it in congregation, as happened with Ubay ibn Ka'b who told the Prophet (s) that he had led his household in prayer in this fashion (Musnad Abu Ya'la and al-Tabarani's Mu'jam al-Kabir).
[quote]
and yeah also some feedback on what bases are you driving three contradictiong views from quran?????
[/quote]
No one is "driving three contradictiong [sic] views". I merely pointed out that different people have interpreted the verses used to advocate mutah in at least three different ways. You are aware, i assume, that more than one interpretation is put forward for these verses?
And Allah knows best.
Iqbal
assalam olaikum
insani bhai.............i have told u b4 that i have limited time........i cant search tjenet right now.can u tell me a site which gives me the true aaqeedah of shia...with out taqiyah.............i have all the books to quote..........but no links .if u r willing to look for the referance ican give u plenty of those..........
as far as jamal is concerned v it is quite a sensitive topic and v dont indulge into these which have no direct effect on our islam..........ALLAH will not ask u what was ur opinion about it .........so i wont talk about it.our ulema has written sufficient stuff on it go read it...........
waiting for any good shia site............
wama alina illal balagh
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
I take it then that you disagree with Sheraz's earlier comment that the "Holy Quran is complete"? Am i right in understanding therefore that as regards mutah marriage there's no prohibition in the Qur'an about marrying virgins and that for this particular detail Shias look elsewhere? Do you want more time check this out?
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
Brother you again got me wrong, what i am trying to say is similarly the way Quran gives us order to pray, but doesn't mention of how to offer salaat, we learn that from sunnah... in the same way it talks about mutah being halaal....
How hard was it to get that?????
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
assalam olaikum
insani bhai.............i have told u b4 that i have limited time........i cant search tjenet right now.can u tell me a site which gives me the true aaqeedah of shia...with out taqiyah.............i have all the books to quote..........but no links .if u r willing to look for the referance ican give u plenty of those..........
wama alina illal balagh
[/QUOTE]
and i believed you said all the stuff you posted for some anti shia propoganda site is true......then i am sure you must have your reasons to justify about the forcination accusation.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
as far as jamal is concerned v it is quite a sensitive topic and v dont indulge into these which have no direct effect on our islam..........ALLAH will not ask u what was ur opinion about it .........so i wont talk about it.our ulema has written sufficient stuff on it go read it...........
waiting for any good shia site............
[/QUOTE]
hmmm....like you said...truth is always bitter for some...can't justify it then cook up lame excuses huh......then don't blame us if we don't believe on all sahabas of being righteous... we have are reasons to back it up...
we don't ignore the truth...
and Iqbal bahi...exaclty what hadeeth's are you referring to regarding turaweeh?
hsister here you go its all u need to know abt Mutah
and u can also ask the question here too and get a ans from a moulana
ttp://members.ozemail.com.au/~azma/QuestionsonMuta.htm
A woman who is married in a mut’ah marriage, according to the Raafidis – i.e. the Shi’ah, who are the ones who say that this is permissible – is neither a wife nor a concubine. But Allaah says:
[al-Mu’minoon 23:5-7]
“And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts) Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame; But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors”
The Raafidis quote invalid evidence to support their argument that mut’ah is permissible. For example:
(a) They quote the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“…so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed…”
[al-Nisa’ 4:24]
They say: this verse indicates that mut’ah is permissible, and the word ‘their mahr (ujoorahunna – lit. their dues or their wages)’ is evidence that what is meant by the phrase ‘you have enjoyed sexual relations’ is mut’ah.
The refutation of this is the fact that prior to this Allaah mentions the women whom a man is forbidden to marry, then he mentions what is permissible for him, and He commands the man to give to the woman he marries her mahr.
The joy of marriage is expressed here by the word enjoyment (‘of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations’).
The mahr is referred to here as ajr (lit. dues or wages), but this does not refer to the money which is paid to the woman with whom he engages in mut’ah in the contract of mut’ah. The mahr is referred to as ajr elsewhere in the Book of Allaah, where Allaah says:
“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage)…”
[al-Ahzaab 33:50]
Thus it becomes clear that there is no evidence in this verse to suggest that mut’ah is permissible.
Even if we were to say for argument’s sake that this verse indicates that mut’ah is permitted, we would still say that it is abrogated by the reports in the saheeh Sunnah which prove that mut’ah is forbidden until the Day of Resurrection.
(b) The reports that some of the Sahaabah regarded it as being permissible, especially Ibn ‘Abbaas.
The refutation here is the fact that the Raafidis are following their own whims and desires, because they regard the companions of the Prophet (may Allaah be pleased with them) as kaafirs, then you see them quoting their actions as permissible in this instance and in others.
With regard to those who said that it is permissible, they are among those who did not hear that it had been forbidden. The Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) – including ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Zubayr – refuted Ibn ‘Abbaas’s view that mut’ah was permitted.
It was narrated from ‘Ali that he heard Ibn ‘Abbaas permitting mut’ah marriage, and he said, “Wait a minute, O Ibn ‘Abbaas, for the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade it on the day of Khaybar and (he also forbade) the meat of tame donkeys.”
Narrated by Muslim, 1407.
And Allaah knows best.
assalam o alikum
one thing i woul like to add up is if a lady commits mutah say 2 months before her marrige with some other person and become pregnant......then what will be the nusb of that child......isnt this falsefies the nasb of all shia,s .....i dont know about this may be shias have some justification................
insan bhai .......i have written that our ulema has written on the topic i know all about jamal but dont want to indulge into it...........
lets see how good ur site is......
see u
wasalam
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
assalam o alikum
one thing i woul like to add up is if a lady commits mutah say 2 months before her marrige with some other person and become pregnant......then what will be the nusb of that child......isnt this falsefies the nasb of all shia,s .....i dont know about this may be shias have some justification................
insan bhai .......i have written that our ulema has written on the topic i know all about jamal but dont want to indulge into it...........
lets see how good ur site is......
see u
wasalam
[/QUOTE]
brother when a man marries a women they do nikah aand the man sleeps with the women and then in a hour or less he gives her divorce and the its the routine for that man to do that all the time with who ever he wants..
whatis the justification for that?
bholay delight
yaar main yahi to kah raha hoon........aap log sumjhtay hi nahin............bro. supose ur motherbefore marrying ur father performs the most holy ibadat of mutah with one of her cousin........after 2 days she got married.........she gets concived by the first intrusion ......u r born..........whose son ur .......are u told about ur real father ........any shia is born to a mutah marrige?........example.........
bao bihari..
As far as I have understood from this thread, is that in mu'tah, just like as in normal nikah, a woman has to do "iddat". You know "iddat", right? If not, then find out.
Good luck