[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rhia: *
Iqbal, since for you, whatever I say is obviously a "cut and paste" job, why don't you just elighten us and provide the chain yourself?
[/quote]
I tell you what, i'll provide the first half of the chain and you provide the second half. Deal?
Iqbal
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/007.smt.html
**
Book 007, Number 2874:
Abd Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jibir, a person came and said: There is difference of opinion amomg Ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair about two Mut’as (benefits, Tamattul in Hajj and temporary marriage with women), whereupon jibir said: We have been doing this during the lifetime of Allah’s Messenger (way peace be upon him), and then 'Umar forbade us to do so, and we never resorted to them.
**
this clearly tells it was Umar who forbade it but you will come up with ur usual nonsense..why dont you guys just follow Sunnat-e-Umar and we will follow Sunnat-e-Rasool
Naturally, 'Umar (r) was also following “Sunnat-e-Rasool” because he knew the Prophet (s) had prohibited mutah. Can’t you come up with an argument that hasn’t already been answered?
By the way, it is “Jabir” (r) not “Jibir”.
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
Naturally, 'Umar (r) was also following "Sunnat-e-Rasool" because he knew the Prophet (s) had prohibited mutah. Can't you come up with an argument that hasn't already been answered?
By the way, it is "Jabir" (r) not "Jibir".
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
see i knew it there is just no point...kisi nay sahi kaha hai jo soya wa hai ussko uthaya jaa sakta hai but jo sonay ki acting ker raha ho usko nahi...all the facts are there in your books yet you ppl dont admit because you dont want your illetrate khalifa to look bad...the hadith clearly stated that "we have been doing it in the time of Prophet pbuh and THEN Umar forbade us to do so"
and btw i did write that its a cut and paste and i doubt any shia made this site at university of southern california
I've been following this post for some time now and still am yet to see a convincing argument condoning Mutah.
Please don't use A'Hadeeths as primary and Qur'aan as secondary?
Stick to the Qur'aan in the first instance.
I don't know Iqbal from Adam, buts he's given very good arguments and counter arguments.
As far as Sheraz and Rhia are concerned they seem to be going round and round in circles with A'Hadeeth. Even then they are not correct translations!
I know which ayat you will use to back up your case for Mutah, but let's see the Synopsis of Content of the ayat. In addition, read further ayats relating to marriage and it's terms and conditions.
Once you've done this I will be more than happy to finally put the nail in the coffin for your Mutah belief and practice.
Call me biased but someones got to do it.
(Sheraz. Mr Ignorant is back on form)
My personal opinion is, since there is a big controversy on who actually forbidded Mutah, was it umar or prophet...and Quran makes mutah halal on its people but never forbids is... i believe its halal... Iqbal can you think of anything else that was made halal by Quran and was later fobiden by Prophet and not in Quran... i need to see some examples...
and yeah i just asked a simple question... who introduced taraweeh in islam.. how hard is that to answer?
**Do not mock religious personalities.
Sentinel**
lartay lartay ho gai gum
assalam o laiukm all
i just want to emphasize 1 point...............is dicusing mutah proves any thing......why cant we just prove who of us is wrong as a whole
cant we see that the ones who said that prophet s.w had only one daughter .......quran is not complete at present..........and those who question the integraty of sahaba ....can they be the right people........discuss bsic facts all other things will clear up....
any body .........
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Serendipiti: *
Rhia
I repeat, it feels wrong on a personal level but more importantly it contradicts every islamic ruling on relationships.
[/QUOTE]
And what part of is it against islamic ruling.. when quran itself promotes the idea, if you are one of those people who believes its something like prostitution nazubillah... that tell me why is there a clause of divorce in islam.. what would you call someone who marries a girl and a week later gives her haq mehar and leaves her... that isnt a permanent marriage now is it....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
I've been following this post for some time now and still am yet to see a convincing argument condoning Mutah.
Please don't use A'Hadeeths as primary and Qur'aan as secondary?
Stick to the Qur'aan in the first instance.
I don't know Iqbal from Adam, buts he's given very good arguments and counter arguments.
[/QUOTE]
i dont get you man... iqbal is trying too overrule something mentioned in the quran by giving some A'Hadeeths thats a big controversy because of serveral versions..now who is taking quran as secondary and A'Hadeeths as primary.. or is it implying some sunni brothers think sahih is more authentic then quran???
and yeah Iqbal i am waiting on your reply to my earlier post
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
.......quran is not complete at present..........
[/QUOTE]
and who said the Quran is not complete... brother read the forum.. its the sunni brother's, who are doubting the integrity of Quran based on A'Hadeeths.
Re: lartay lartay ho gai gum
Brother if all sahabas were pious… why did the incidents like Battle of Jamal happened…
I was reading the quran one day and i was suprised when i ran into these Ayats and this question came in my mind as to why did Hazrat Ayesha disobeyed Quran and left her house and fought a battle against Hazrat Ali.
[Pickthal 33:32] O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech.
[Pickthal 33:33] And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah’s wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a
Brother if Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H asked us to follow Quran and sunnah … did he tell us the what would be a good and right source to follow his sunnah and teachings…or he left us to figure them out ourselves… did you read the website i posted earlier
http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/
Is it true Umar introduced taraweeh after the death of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H…even though Quran says your religon is perfect during the time of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H ..if he did..isnt it a bidat to follow???
Re: lartay lartay ho gai gum
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
assalam o laiukm all
i just want to emphasize 1 point...............is dicusing mutah proves any thing......why cant we just prove who of us is wrong as a whole
cant we see that the ones who said that prophet s.w had only one daughter .......quran is not complete at present..........and those who question the integraty of sahaba ....can they be the right people........discuss bsic facts all other things will clear up....
[/QUOTE]
why dont you open a new thread and we can discuss it there..stop spreading false rumours
Re: lartay lartay ho gai gum
Check this website out dude…even though i havent read the book completely…i heard this book is about a debate held between shia and sunni’s ulema in peshawar…the debate lasted for a few days and after the debate sunni ulema converted to shaism
Insaniyat
And not a pro shia website you are posting and plugging by any chance!
As far as the Qur'aan is concerned. Please be kind and brave enough to post the ayat/s that you refer to making Mutah halaal (permissable) and it's Synopsis, period of revelation. This way you can confirm to all of us your actual understanding (tajweed) of the Qur'aan.
As far as the ayat you conveniently posted regarding the Wives to stay indoors rather than war, please give us your opinion of the issue which asks all the believers to approach the Wives from behind a veil:
Al-Ahzab (The Confederates) [33:53]
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tadkhuloo buyoota alnnabiyyi illa an yuthana lakum ila taAAamin ghayra nathireena inahu walakin itha duAAeetum faodkhuloo faitha taAAimtum faintashiroo wala mustaniseena lihadeethin inna thalikum kana yuthee alnnabiyya fayastahyee minkum waAllahu la yastahyee mina alhaqqi waitha saaltumoohunna mataAAan faisaloohunna min warai hijabin thalikum atharu liquloobikum waquloobihinna wama kana lakum an tuthoo rasoola Allahi wala an tankihoo azwajahu min baAAdihi abadan inna thalikum kana AAinda Allahi AAatheeman
O ye who believe! ENTER not the Prophet's houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, ENTER; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah's sight an enormity.
Did Hazrat Ali RA abide by this ruling?
I've yet to receive a clear and concise answer from my fellow shia brothers and sisters, despite asking for years.
in circles
salam to all
as far sa web site is concerned i belive it is a shia web site may be practising taqaiyah
we r going in circles..........yaar what u guys dont understand is why keep on beating the line........sunnis wont believe u and u dont trust sahabah...........................i just emphasize one point it is the core issue if v disscuss the core isue then aall the sources the true religion takes is automatically held as valid............................
below i write what shias believe about sahabah..........
It is a Shi’I contention that the great Sahaabah, especially Hadhrat Abu Baker, Umar, Uthmaan, etc. (Radiallahu Anhum) did not understand the teachings of Nabi-e-Kareem (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). They further shamelessly and blasphemously assert that these illustrious Khulafa Raashideen are usurpers, frauds, fabricators of ahadith and wholly incompetent in Deeni matters. Indeed, the la’nat of Allah Ta’ala must be on such slanderers as the Shi’I clergy who make such wicked assertions. In spite of their slander being shocking and despicable in the extreme, it is not surprising, since they are the worst fabricators and frauds peddling their nafsaani opinions in the name of Islam and attributing it to Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). They have accused the Sahaabah of being involved in conspiracies to eliminate Islam and supplant it with the Arab tribal systems of the time of jaahiliyyah. The blasphemous drivel which clutters their books and preaching's exhibits their wickedness and detestation for the Islam of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam).
Inspite of the open venom which the some Shiahs spit against the Sahaabah, the ignornat supporters of the Shiahs among the Ahle Sunnah expect the Ulama to raise slogans of brotherhood and to fabricate a common basis and a common platform of fraternity with the haters of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam’s) Companions. They expect the Ummah of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) to unite with those whose very religion is reared on hatred for the sahaabah. No, that can never come to pass. The enemies of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam’s) Sahaabah can never be the friends and the brothers of the Ahlu Sunnah. There is no apologetism rin our capital for such ventures. We know of no diplomacy and recognize no expediency for such vile Brotherhood. If unity and brotherhood with all and sundry are of such importance, let the supporters of the Shi’I clergy advocate unity and brotherhood with shaitann and Qaadianism as well.
shias believe about sahabah
as far sa mutah is concerned.............
here is what i have found..
MUTAH (Temporary Marriage)
It is a common misunderstanding that MUTAH wasn't forbidden by Prophet Muhammad [Sallallaho Alaihe Wasallam] rather it was Hadrat Omar [Radiallaho tala anho] who forbade it. I am quoting three hadiths from many to prove this misconception wrong.
Book 008, Number 3263:
Ali b. Abi Talib [Radiallaho tala anho] reported that Allah's Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihe Wasallam) prohibited on the Day of Khaibar the contracting of temporary marriage with women and the eating of the flesh of city's asses.
[Saheeh Muslim]
Book 008, Number 3266:
Ali (Radiallaho tala anho) heard that Ibn Abbas (Radiallaho tala anho) gave some relaxation in connection with the contracting of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn Abbas, for Allah's Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihe Wasallam) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the doing of it-And eating of the flesh of city 's asses.
[Saheeh Muslim]
Book 008, Number 3267:
Ali (Radiallaho tala anho) said to Ibn Abbas (Radiallaho tala anho) that Allah's Messenger (s a w) on the Day of Khaibar forbade forever the contracting of temporary marriage and the eating of the flesh of city's asses.
[Saheeh Muslim]
well if u say mutah is in quran so u do it.......how many ghulams and londis shia have in thier homes or in (islamic republic of iran)
do some one answer......
i hate to dicuss these things but .............
bihari beta if you wanna talk about the companions then open up a different thread…we are trying to discuss mutah here…did u miss the following hadith i posted earlier?
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundame...im/007.smt.html
Book 007, Number 2874:
Abd Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jibir, a person came and said: There is difference of opinion amomg Ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair about two Mut’as (benefits, Tamattul in Hajj and temporary marriage with women), whereupon jibir said: We have been doing this during the lifetime of Allah’s Messenger (way peace be upon him), and then 'Umar forbade us to do so, and we never resorted to them.
that is also from ur sahi book right? read the urdu tarjuma ager english main samajh nahi aati
Why are we fighting over people who died a millenium and a half ago? How is overlooking the message to argue about individuals who are no longer here help us in our salvation?
Muta'ah or temporary marriage
Assalaamualeikum,
at some given time in the time of the Prophet Muhammad(sallallaaahualehiwasallam), temporary marriage was allowed, because of certain circumstances that thet companions of the Prophet, found themselves in.
However, what is called Muta'ah or temporary marriage was later abbrogated. Hence, it is Haraam.
Allah knows best
Wassalaam
Imran
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaniyat: *
My personal opinion is, since there is a big controversy on who actually forbidded Mutah...
[/quote]
There's no big controversy, except perhaps among Shias.
[quote]
*was it umar or prophet... *
[/quote]
Even 'Umar (r) said that the Prophet (s) forbade it!
[quote]
Iqbal can you think of anything else that was made halal by Quran and was later fobiden by Prophet and not in Quran... i need to see some examples...
[/quote]
You first need to ask yourself whether everyone accepts that mutah marriage is permitted by the Qur'an. That isn't necessarily the case. There are three views in this regard:
The Qur'an permits mutah marriage and does not forbid it
The Qur'an permitted but then forbade mutah marriage
The Qur'an never sanctioned mutah marriage in the first place
Take your pick.
[quote]
and yeah i just asked a simple question... who introduced taraweeh in islam.. how hard is that to answer?
[/QUOTE]
Answer: The Prophet (s). It has been discussed before. Did you search for it as i suggested?
And Allah knows best.
Iqbal
Re: in circles
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
salam to all
as far sa web site is concerned i belive it is a shia web site may be practising taqaiyah
[/QUOTE]
Brother... if you can't stand the truth...please don't try to ignore it by making some lame excuses...the website i told you about, it talks about a real event that actually happened...and not some made up pro site...as sholay..it talks about things with references....don't just cook excuses in your lame mind… without reading watzz going on. but if you don’t agree with something try to back up with some evidence don’t just cook excuses to run from the truth and yeah stop posting cut and paste from anti-shia website without any feed back about the evidence
if we don't like some sahabas...we have reasons...we just can't ignore the truth... why dont u answer my questions regarding if all sahabas' were pious or not...
Can you justify why did the incident of jamal happened or as to why did Hazrat Ayesha disobeyed Quran and came to battle against maula ali if all the sahabas where pious.
do you have any answers??? or u just have some lame stuff to cut and paste from internet which doesn’t answer anything. Is it true that Umar introduced taraweeh?? and if it is then is it a bidat or sunnat -e- umar to follow????
do you have any answers... i am open to learn.. if someone had any answers but seems like all u do is beat around the bush rather then saying wat do you think is truth... so i can learn better. you know we learn from each other.
Iqbal please stop twisting meanings of Quran and have several meanings for one ayat to meet your needs........ and you all have this misconception about shia's believing quran is in incomplete