then i went and clicked on the virtues of the companions and I knew if i just do control F and Moses, i would find it faster and look what i found here first:
Chapter 39: PERTAINING TO THE MERITS OF MOSES (PEACE BE UPON HIM)
Book 030, Number 5849:
Hammam b. Munabbih reported that Abu Huraira reported many ahadith from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and one, of them speaks that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) is reported to have said: Banu Isra’il used to take bath (together) naked and thus saw private parts of one another, but Moses (peace be upon him) used to take bath alone (in privacy), and they said: By Allah, nothing prevents Moses to take bath along with us; but scrotal hernia. One day when he (Moses) was taking bath (alone) he placed his clothes upon a stone, but the stone began to move along with his clothes. Moses raced after it saying: My garment, stone; until (some of the people) of Banu Isra’il looked at the private parts of Moses, and they said: By Allah, there is no trouble with Moses. The stone stopped after he (Moses) had been seen. He took hold of his garments and struck the stone. Abu Huraira said: I swear by Allah that there were six or seven scars on the stone because of the striking of stone by Moses (peace be upon him).
LOL
here is the hadith that mentions ALI and not Umar
Book 031, Number 5914:
Sa’d b. Abi Waqqas reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) left 'Ali b. Abi Talib behind him (as he proceeded) to the expedition of Tabuk, whereupon he ('Ali) said: Allah’s Messenger, are you leaving me behind amongst women 4nd children? Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Aren’t you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there would be no prophet after me.
assalam oalkium all...
well i just want to raise a point that may clear the things up.......no one has answered my previous post ....so.....
hazrat ali r.a had son who atined shadah in karbla were abubakr.umer.usman.(ref:tazkiratul aaimah-page64/jala ul oyon-page258)hazrat hasan r.a had 3 sons named after shabah named umer,talha,abu bakr(tazkira tul aaima-page 78)
no one names his son after his enemy neither any one mariies his daughter to munafiq .......
wama alina illal bilagh
Ok now lets be open minded and think about it
logically.. You have two hadith… one of them states
the act is allowed by Prophet P.B.U.H. one that states
that the act was prohibited by Prophet P.B.U.H and
some that says that the act was forbidden by UMAR
now if you have several hadith’s that contradicts each
other… rather then making assumptions that umar
probably was trying to forbid something that prophet
did…lets look in the light of Quran.. If Quran have
ayat that allows the practice but not any that forbids
it…
now think about the arguments raised earlier that
drinking wine was allowed before, but later it was
prohibited… now tell me are there any ayat in Quran
that promoted the practice of drinking the wine. If
there isnt any we cannot compare islam prohibiting
drinking of wine with the prohibition of
mutah..because then this activity was never promoted
in Quran but was practiced for sometime during the
time of Prophet Mohammad and also before him and was
prohibited later. unlike mutah where quran allowed the
practice and never prohibited… if God wanted to
prohibit something he allowed in Quran i am sure he
could have sent the ayat of prohibiting it and the
issue would have resolved easier, rather then people
reading some contradicting hadiths. Or Prophet would
have mentioned what is the correct source to follow
his sunnah… thats where the Imamat comes in for us
isna asheri shias… http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/
Sister ana the things you mentioned earlier that
about shia believing that verses of Ali prophethood are eliminated is not true.. becasue as a muslim we are believe that Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H is the last prophet on earth…i believe its just a
propaganda againsts us. But sister i still wanted to
know about the turaweeh you mentioned earlier… where
does the teachings of reading turwaweeh comes from?
Ok now lets be open minded and think about it
logically.. You have two hadith.... one of them states
the act is allowed by Prophet P.B.U.H. one that states
that the act was prohibited by Prophet P.B.U.H and
some that says that the act was forbidden by UMAR
now if you have several hadith's that contradicts each
other...
[/quote]
There's no contradiction except in the minds of those who want to force one based on books they've probably never read. In the same hadith in which the Prophet (s) forbade mutah he also himself stated that he had previously allowed it. How is that a contradiction? 'Umar (r), when addressing the congregation, told them that the Prophet (s) had prohibited it. So where's the contradiction?
[quote] But sister i still wanted to know about the turaweeh you mentioned earlier... where does the teachings of reading turwaweeh comes from?
[/QUOTE]
It has been discussed before, i believe it was in a thread related to innovation. Do a search and you might find it.
I gave you the word for word translation Iqbal.
[/quote]
How did you manage to translate words that weren't even there in the Arabic text?
[quote] If that is wrong, then I hope you understand that is not of my own doing. Unfortunately I am not an expert in Arabic linguistics.
[/quote]
Yes, it was wrong. I guess you've now realised that.
[quote] But that should not stop you from answering my main criticism: that of Hazrat Umar prohibiting Mutah.
[/quote]
'Umar (r) knew the Prophet (s) had forbidden mutah marriages; that's exactly what he told the congregation. I've already posted the relevant narration. So he didn't invent the prohibition. In fact, al-Razi, mentioned in your third reference, himself concluded that 'Umar (r) prohibited its practice only because the Prophet (s) had already done so. The report you cited from al-Tirmidhi, Tafsir al-Qurtubi and al-Daraqutni about a question posed to 'Abdullah ibn 'Umar (r) has nothing to do with mutah marriages.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
How did you manage to translate words that weren't even there in the Arabic text?
[/QUOTE]
Trying to act too clever does not befit you my brother. :) When I said translation I meant translation.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
'Umar (r) knew the Prophet (s) had forbidden mutah marriages; that's exactly what he told the congregation. I've already posted the relevant narration. So he didn't *invent the prohibition. In fact, al-Razi, mentioned in your third reference, himself concluded that 'Umar (r) prohibited its practice only because the Prophet (s) had already done so. The report you cited from al-Tirmidhi, Tafsir al-Qurtubi and al-Daraqutni about a question posed to 'Abdullah ibn 'Umar (r) has nothing to do with mutah marriages.
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
So the only counter argument you have been able to come up with is Razi's own interpretation of the Hadith? Meaning you just were not able to prove that it was as you say, "a reminder" from the clear wording of the hadith itself, were you?
All the reports I have given to you containing the words Mutah, relate to fishing in the desert then, if it has nothing to do with "mutah marriage"?
Give me something believable at the very least. You make my case stronger every time. I think I have more than proven my point.
Trying to act too clever does not befit you my brother. :) When I said translation I meant translation.
[/quote]
Are you still insisting that your translation is correct? Okay, prove it. Simply post the Arabic text you used so we can all have a look. Why do i get the feeling that you aren't going to bother?
[quote] So the only counter argument you have been able to come up with is Razi's own interpretation of the Hadith?
[/quote]
Read my reply again. It wasn't the "only" counter argument.
[quote] Meaning you just were not able to prove that it was as you say, "a reminder" from the clear wording of the hadith itself, were you?
[/quote]
I've already answered this.
[quote] All the reports I have given to you containing the words Mutah, relate to fishing in the desert then, if it has nothing to do with "mutah marriage"?
[/quote]
You obviously don't know that there are two types of mutah - one of which relates to a form of Hajj and has nothing to do with marriage. Like i said before, if you haven't actually read the books that you pretend to quote from or understand what you are reading then how do you expect people to take you seriously.
[quote]
*Give me something believable at the very least. You make my case stronger every time. I think I have more than proven my point. *
[/QUOTE]
Confusing mutah marriage with mutah Hajj hardly makes your case stronger - does it!?
I just re-post one of the Hadith again and readers can decide for themselves whether your statements are of any significance, if at all.
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p52:
Two Mut'a were practiced during the time of the Prophet: Mut'a of women and Mut'a of Hajj, but I forbid both of them and will punish anyone who practices either."
**I just re-post one of the Hadith again and readers can decide for themselves whether your statements are of any significance, if at all.
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p52:
Two Mut'a were practiced during the time of the Prophet: Mut'a of women and Mut'a of Hajj, but I forbid both of them and will punish anyone who practices either."
**
[/QUOTE]
If you really do have the Musnad of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal then could you kindly quote the chain of transmission he gives for this report. You'll find it right before the narration. That shouldn't be too difficult in light of your previous claim that: "I alhamdulillah rely on my own resources. The references are from our own personal library containing 8 volumes of Sahih Muslim and all of the other books. I do not rely on cut and paste."
iqbal please also tell me more about the following hadith..i wanna know what you have to say about it..i am sure you have read it in sahi muslim before..oh yes its cut and paste:
Book 030, Number 5849:
Hammam b. Munabbih reported that Abu Huraira reported many ahadith from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and one, of them speaks that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is reported to have said: Banu Isra'il used to take bath (together) naked and thus saw private parts of one another, but Moses (peace be upon him) used to take bath alone (in privacy), and they said: By Allah, nothing prevents Moses to take bath along with us; but scrotal hernia. One day when he (Moses) was taking bath (alone) he placed his clothes upon a stone, but the stone began to move along with his clothes. Moses raced after it saying: My garment, stone; until (some of the people) of Banu Isra'il looked at the private parts of Moses, and they said: By Allah, there is no trouble with Moses. The stone stopped after he (Moses) had been seen. He took hold of his garments and struck the stone. Abu Huraira said: I swear by Allah that there were six or seven scars on the stone because of the striking of stone by Moses (peace be upon him).
iqbal please also tell me more about the following hadith..i wanna know what you have to say about it..i am sure you have read it in sahi muslim before..oh yes its cut and paste
[/quote]
And the direct relevance between that hadith and mutah marriage is what?
Iqbal, since for you, whatever I say is obviously a "cut and paste" job, why don't you just elighten us and provide the chain yourself?
While you are at it, provide the chain of narrations for every single other So-called Sahih Hadith we have discussed in this topic so we can apply the same standards to them, if only to judge whether this is really the case.
Rhia
It is ridiculous to equate the practice of mutah to any other Islamic practice, I am sure u know that fasting is a command of ALLah, I hope you are not suggesting that mutah is too (nauzubillah).
I am intrested in the fact that u were upset by my post. Has it touched a nerve? u can quote whatever u like, the practice is unaccpetable and wrong. I repeat, it feels wrong on a personal level but more importantly it contradicts every islamic ruling on relationships. It is so blatantly obviously completely WRONG. I cannot believe people have posted so much to try and suggest it isnt.
Ana- I just cant figure how ANYONE can advocate it. I swear I thought mutah was a rumour to discredit shias, I never believed it untill I read this thread!!
Rhia - Would you practice it, if so how many times and if not why not?
Well I do hope you are not suggesting the Prophet and his companions were sinning (nauzobillah) when they were practising Mutah. I do not have to say anything about their awareness of Islamic rulings. What you feel is of no consequence to me or to anyone else.
anyways i went to google typed Sahi Muslim and came across this website: