A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Diwana stamp of approval…all is right in the world again
Keep calm and carry on folks!
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
My Mammu, who has lived his entire life in Pakistan, has a friend, who also lives in Pakistan, that’s a Greek native. This guy,let’s call him Bob, is Christian, while my Mammu is Muslim.
On Eid, Bob brought my Mammu and his family sweets and gave Eidi to the kids. They didn’t shun Bob out of the house and tell the kids to give it back because he’s not a Muslim.
Instead, everyone that heard about this kept saying “Kitna acha insaan hai! He adapted since he is in a foreign country and showed his respect by doing what he did.” In no way did this damage Bob’s faith. And in return, my mammu invited Bob over their house on Christmas for dinner and they exchanged gifts. Also not damaging my mammu’s faith.
So here’s my question…
Why are we so judgmental? If anyone else does it, it’s cool. But if we do, “La hawla walla quwwata… :no:”
Who cares what others do!? If you have an issue with it, live your life how you think is right. If someone else’s life and/ or how they live it doesn’t have any sort of affect on yours, let them live it how** they** want to!
Giving gifts, spending time with family, eating together, cooking special meals… None of these can be labeled as “only” western traditions. So this entire East vs West battle needs to end. Absolutely ridiculous.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
You are now officially appointed as my bugle caller.
Not!
Sorry I am in a middle of my computer work and responding as I read the post. I just read few earlier posts and will post further when I can.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I think you missed the entire point of this thread.
Just like this thread was never meant to be Pakistanis versus Non-Pakistanis, it was never meant to be East Versus West.
Please read entire thread before making any comment. 
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
You keep telling this to everyone. 
It’s getting repetitive now, just sayin.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I say what I see. Can’t help it but will be more vigilant to that since you mentioned.
You tell me where I am wrong despite what I say to anyone he/she missed the entire point of thread. I will be glad to correct myself. No problem.
I do not want to sound like a broken record or use any argument which is repetitive in different threads just to counter an argument. Thanks.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
^Diwana..you have been served well by MM. Now you’re just beating dead horse.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
There is no dead horse. And there is no beating the poor dead horse.
MM talked about her Uncle and a non-Muslim resident of what I understand is living in Pakistan. I could be wrong.
I have talked about some Muslims living in majority non-Muslim countries following and participating in one or other way in those holidays which are not proscribed in Islam or contradict Islam.
No real comment or conclusion can be drawn on what MM mamoon and this one person as non-Muslim had going in their relation.
Jews have lived in many countries which are majority Christians and do not follow Christian based holidays. And in majority Christian based countries, Jews were never persecuted for not following Christian holidays.
Take a good look at mixed or majority Jews neighborhood, you will not find Christmas related lights or Christmas trees in their homes. And that is very respectful for them not to follow Christian based holiday like Christmas.
Jews follow their holidays and candle lights. Christians follow their holiday with different flavor.
What business Muslims have to hell bent following Christmas or any other religious festival (or anti-religious festival like Halloween) by any means? Weird.
Copy cats and not much more than that.
A Sikh who wears turban and follows his religious belief is much more respectful than a so called Muslim who wants to jump on a bandwagon just to show he/she is a part of a larger non_Muslim group.
Please read below.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Like one poster above essentially said (You know who): “it does not affect my belief if I follow or participate any other religious holiday as long as I have my beliefs”.
Same poster and other poster brought the matter of “being tolerant”. As if when someone does not participate in religious holidays of others, that person is intolerant. And to follow other religious holiday is to be tolerant. 
Here is the question:
An imaginary man says:
**“I love my wife and am very confident in my love and affection to her. And if I go out and periodically have ‘intimate relation’ or even spend dinner and dance time with another woman, it does not affect my love for my wife at all. And to prove my dedication and love to my wife, I can even go out with many different girl-friends multiple times and I assure you, my love and dedication will stay the same.”
Moreover, I feel as if I am being intolerant and disrespectful and belittling other women from denying them and in order to prove I am very tolerant, all accommodating, and not be hateful to those women, I should spend time with them and as long as it is fun, it is fine…after-all fun is what should be the standard for being right and wrong."
**
What would you think of that man???
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
There are only a very few number of Muslims who “feel they NEED to follow Western/non-Islamic traditions” and they will do it halfheartedly.
Most who celebrate it do so out of choice not out of obligation … They say that they see themselves as sharing something in common with other nationals. There are a few Muslims who can’t be asked to celebrate those traditions out of personal reasons rather than religious ones and quite a few more Muslims who exercise their choice NOT to celebrate those traditions out of a religious conviction specific to their understanding of Islam.
Out of the Muslims who choose to celebrate those traditions and festivities do so either because they enjoy it - and consider it a little naughty but do so anyway … or because they believe those festivities are not wrong and separate from being a Muslim and they enjoy it too.
No Muslim … not even the non-Muslims of the West undertake their own festivities out of a sense of religious purpose anymore - they just have an excuse to have fun … It is all hedonism these days and Muslims are not protected from hedonism either.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Yes, and thanks for bringing the term hedonism. I should have used that term before. 
Sorry: Minor correction in red above.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I prefer to include myself in to the group of Muslims and include them in to the same group as mine … I am inclusive and do not like saying things such as “so called Muslims” - I prefer to say “their understanding of Islam” but we are all Muslims together. Neither is my claim that I am protected from hedonism and if I get arrogant in that mindset then may be Allah (SWT) might just test me one day with hedonistic thoughts … May He keep us all guided.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
For the sake of keeping thread on course, I will not comment or discuss further on it. Some other time for sure… if I remember this. There is no arrogance when I corrected however.
My question at the end of post# 109 remains open.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
This phrase is not used specifically for epxressing divides but you can infer that i used this phrase out of divide in my heart as if you know my heart exactly or might be you are able to preconceive the truth.
Even if you have a point then you are persisting with your previous remarks on resident ‘patriotic’ Pakistanis, making another wrong to make one right.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I would think of that man as corrupt and possibly deluded as well … response post no. 109
Peace
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I think, there is a difference in stating and sharing our opinion on a certain religious matter, and, questioning people on why they do something which we do not deem Islamic.
We have our right to share opinions as much as we want, we also have fard on us to do tableeg as best as we can. But we do not have any rights what so ever to question another person’s faith.
I am personally against all these occasions and do not celebrate them or hold them important in my life. Yet I do believe that those who are doing it may have their own reasons for which they are not answerable to us , but to Allah. Just as , we may be doing alot of other things that can be deemed non Islamic by many , who are more religious then us.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I can see how a Muslim’s participation (to varying degrees) in a non-Muslim event can be perceived as irresponsible/misguided behaviour. But who are we to judge others’ actions as right or wrong when we don’t have complete knowledge of their intentions?
- Imaan ka daaro-madaar niyat pe hai
- Dilon ke haal sirf aur sirf Allah jaanta hai
I don’t understand the whole debate about “why should I celebrate theirs if they don’t celebrate ours?” I don’t expect non-Muslims to understand and uphold the significance behind any Islamic events in the same way that I hold them near and dear to my heart. If any non-Muslim doesn’t celebrate Eid with me, I won’t hold a grudge against them. If a non-Muslim wants to fast with me in Ramadan, I wouldn’t shun them. Similarly, they shouldn’t expect me to celebrate or participate in their religious events.
I agree with Psyah. Those Muslims who participate in or celebrate non-Muslim holidays do so out of choice, not obligation. And I agree that while many might participate in a small way, those who celebrate are just a small minority.
Diwana, I really couldn’t tell you why Muslims all over the world are not 100% on the same page. But I think those, who merely participate in these holidays in some small way, do so out of common courtesy and respect; they/we do it to co-exist peacefully in a multi-religious/multicultural environment.
For example, I bring Pakistani sweets to my workplace on Eid to share with everyone and include them in my happiness. I use this opportunity to educate those who have limited knowledge about Islam or Pakistani traditions/food. I don’t decorate a Christmas tree in my house but I wish those celebrating a Merry Christmas and I participate in decorating the office Christmas tree. To me, Christmas is a lot more than tree decoration and by putting up one piece of ornament, I am not harming my religious beliefs. It’s an act of acknowledgement that yes, you have different beliefs than me but I respect our differences.
I don’t dress up on Halloween or go to a Halloween themed party, but I do hand out candy to the kids who come knocking on my door every year. Is that wrong? Allah knows best.
I think part of it has to do with friendships that we form with people around us. Regardless of what religion a person belongs to, when you get to know him/her on a personal level and believe them to be a good person, you would want to be courteous and wish them well.
Anyway, we do what we are comfortable with. And we are answerable to Allah for all our actions, good or bad.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Madz, since you mentioned about Innamal amal ul binniyat, I feel to share something too.
If a group of people can be convinced or at least understand providing them logics/ sayings of Ashaabs, & Our Beloved Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H, then it is for everyone 
Have you ever wondered about the issue of celebrating or partaking in Non-Muslim holidays, festivals and celebrations? What is the Islamic ruling regarding this? Is it permissible, is it disliked, is it impermissible? Is there a difference of opinion on this matter? Insha’Allah, in this short article, I hope that all of these (and related) questions will be clearly answered.
- Greeting the Kuffaar on Christmas and other similar holidays of theirs is Haraam by Ittifaaq (consensus of the scholars), as Shaykh-ul-Islaam Ibn al-Qayyim said in Ahkaam Ahl adh-Dhimmah:
Congratulating the Kuffaar on the rituals that belong to them is prohibited by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on…” - It is prohibited for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them, as it implies taking part in their celebrations.
- Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the Kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc. because the Prophet Muhammad said:
مَنْ تَشَبَّهَ بِقَومٍ فَهُوَ مِنْهُمْ
“Whoever imitates a people is one of them.”
This hadeeth was authenticated by a great deal of scholars including Abu Dawood, Ibn Hibbaan, Ibn Hajar, Az-Zarqaani, Adh-Dhahabi, Al-Haythami, Al-’Iraaqi, As-Sakhaawi, As-San’aani, Muhammad Jaarullaah As-Sa’di, Ahmad Shaakir, Ibn Baaz, Al-Albaani, Ibn `Uthaymeen, and others.
Ibn Taymiyyah, in his beautiful and monumental book* Iqtidaa’ as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem Mukhaalafatu Ashaab’il-Jaheem* (In Pursuit of the Straight Path by Contradicting the People of the Hellfire), said:
“Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to mislead the weak.”
Therefore, whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, even if he does it out of politeness, friendliness, shyness, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islam and it makes the Kuffaar feel proud of their ways and festivals.
Please also take note of the following: - Remember the hadith of ‘Aa’ishah in Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim where she narrated that on the Day of Eid , two young girls were doing a special performance for her (singing some songs). When Abu Bakr came to visit the Prophet and found these girls with ‘Aa’ishah, he rebuked them harshly. So the Prophet (who had been facing the wall), said:
يَا أَبَا بَكْر, إنَّ لِكُلِّ قَومٍ عِيدًا, وهَذَا عِيْدُنَا
Abu Bakr, (know that) every group of people has its Eid (festival). And* this* is our Eid.”
Eid عيد is the name given to something which returns (Ya’ood), and is used to describe gatherings which happens repeatedly on a regular basis. Therefore, the Prophet clearly stated that the Eid of the people of Islam is the Eid (celebration) after Ramadaan and Eid at the end of the Hajj season. In addition to this, Friday is also considered a Eid for the Muslims, because it is a weekly gathering and is the best day of the week. - The Prophet also explicitly expressed his desire to contradict the ways, celebrations, and festivities of the non-Muslims. In this hadith that has a good chain of narration, as stated by Abu Bakr Al-Athram, Umm Salamah Hind Bint Abi Umayyah said that,
أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كان يصوم السبت والأحد ، ويقول : هما عيدان للمشركين فأنا أحب أن أخالفهما
The Prophet used to fast on Saturdays and on Sundays, and he would say: “These are two days of Eid for the Mushrikoon. So I love to oppose them (contradict them, differ from them) in these two.” (For more info on the issue of fasting on Saturdays, see: http://www.islamway.com/?iw_s=Article&iw_a=view&article_id=2325 )
So, for the pagans, Saturday and Sunday was a special holiday for them, a Eid. On these days they would party, celebrate, relax, enjoy, dance, sing. And in and of itself, there’s nothing wrong with relaxing on Saturday our Sunday, but the mere fact that the Pagans used to do this, was enough reason for our beloved Prophet to differ from their practice and not imitate them and fast on these days (to show his indifference and his disregard for their Eid).
So, just to differ from them, to show that we’re different, to indicate that he, in no way, is taking part in their Eid, he would fast on Saturdays and Sundays. It is as if to send a clear message: “I’m not partaking in the Eid of Non-Muslims. I want to differ from them. I love to differ from their practice (of relaxing, enjoying, partying) on these two days.” So, even though it’s permissible to relax on Saturdays and Sundays, he decided to exert himself and fast on these two days just for this particular purpose. Therefore, one can just imagine what our Prophet would’ve said if he were alive today and were asked about Christmas or Thanksgiving!
What would he say upon seeing Muslims greeting and warmly congratulating the Kuffaar on their Eids?
What if he saw his Ummah actually having Christmas trees and lights, imitating the Kuffaar and making these Eids of the disbelievers a part of their lives?
Fully indulging, forget contradicting and trying to differ from them, the Muslims are not even shunning their practices, but are rather completely participating in their traditions! ”Followers” of Muhammad as they claim, but yet we see them exchanging Christmas cards and presents with the Kuffaar and making Thanksgiving turkeys. On top of all of this, they are even allowing their children to go and partake with the Kuffaar in trick-or-treating and Halloween-related events.
مَنْ تَشَبَّهَ بِقَومٍ فَهُوَ مِنْهُمْ
“Whoever imitates a people is one of them.”
So the above Prophetic words do not apply, as some ignorant people misunderstand, to normal common things, like wearing a T-shirt, or tie, or sneakers, or driving a BMW or Mercedes-Benz SLR. Rather, it refers to things that are specific for Non-Muslims and are well-known to be widely practiced by Kuffaar. For ‘Eids’ like Halloween, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, there is no doubt whatsoever that such Eids fall into this meaning. - Ibn al-Qayyim said in his book, Ahkaam Ahl adh-Dhimmah, “It is not permissible for the Muslims to attend the festivals of the disbelievers, according to the consensus of the scholars whose words carry weight.
The Fuqahaa’ who follow the four schools of thought have stated this clearly in their books. Al-Bayhaqi narrated with an authentic isnaad from ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab that he said:
“Do not enter upon the disbelievers on the day of their festival, for divine wrath is descending upon them.”
And ‘Umar also said:
“Avoid the enemies of Allah on their festivals.”
Al-Bayhaqi narrated with an acceptable isnaad from ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Amr that he said: “Whoever settles in the land of the non-Arabs and celebrates their new year and festival and imitates them until he dies in that state, will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection.”
So yes, most definitely, as the Prophet told us, as reported in Saheeh Al-Bukhari:
المرء مع من أحب
“A person will be with the one whom he loved (on the Day of Resurrection).”
You will be with the one whom you loved. “Love” is not just saying, ‘I love Allah, I love Islaam, I love Prophet Muhammad.’ Love is not talk. Talk is cheap! Love is striving to imitate, to be like, and to follow the practices of someone or something.
Now, ask yourselves this: Are you imitating the Prophet more in your life, or are you abandoning his Sunnah? Forget about whether it’s obligatory or recommended. This isn’t a Fiqh issue. It’s an issue of: Do you really love the Prophet Muhammad such that you will strive to imitate him in every aspect of your life? Or are you imitating the Kuffaar more in your life? Do you imitate their traditions more than the traditions of your Prophet? Who do you wish to be resurrected amongst? You will be with those whom you *love.
Source:
Celebrating a Non-Muslim Holiday? | Muslim Youth Musings*
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Queen, thanks for that extremely insightful article, but I don’t think the purpose of this thread was to understand the religious ruling on the matter. The purpose was to try and understand why certain Muslims act in a certain way. And ample views have been presented, shedding light onto the thinking process/intention(s) behind such behaviour.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I understand that the main purpose of this thread wasn’t to discuss it in the light of religion, but the reason, why Certain Muslims who are against of it, is linked to it. Without providing what makes some of us anti of such celebrations won’t clear the issue without discussing it.
Would you tell me why did you feel to mention the “inaamal amal ul binnyat” ?? Because somehow you thought it could go in its favor, so if I am mentioning a few more ahadiths over it which I think, make sense and are highly required to understand the logic behind it, why should it be a problem??