Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Queen meri jaan, poori tarah se karo ya aadhi tarah se, baat ek hee hai. 
Khair go and eat, it’s almost lunch time here too. Enjoy your dinner.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
op if you can please clear that this thread is not about pakistani muslim vs western muslims that would solve half the problem:bummer:
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Queen…the categories have been created, so let’s use them.
I actually keep mithai on Diwali, candy for Halloween, candy canes for Xmas, sweet tables for Chaand Raat, mithai on both Eids again, etc etc etc all year long at the store. No harm in it. So when I read that people like us would not be in business…well…why wouldn’t I? Those are not my views.
And no, I am not taking it personally. These are just my views…how I think many people feel lol.
I believe we are are the same people…Christians, Jews, Muslims…even the Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, bring 'am all…are all the same people. Made by the same Allah swt. The only human being to be held above them all is our Prophet (SAW), the man who left examples of KINDNESS, CHARITY, GOODWILL AND LOVE everywhere He went. I do not believe any Muslim is better than a non-Muslim UNLESS his aamaal make him better. By labeling yourself a Muslim or being born in it…you have not guaranteed a better afterlife nor superiority in front of a non-Muslim. If I had two people in front of me who needed money…I’d give it to the person who needed it most…wouldn’t ask who was Muslim.
Apne dilon ko narm karo logon…
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
actually i think you forget that even in a “gora/christian” country like the UK, the true sentiment of christmas has been lost even by them. it’s mostly about consumerism now. so those ladies who come to you for makeovers, they aren’t wanting a full mary look to take part in the local nativity. they just want to look hot and party, if your office provides you with free food and a good time.. why not?
also, there’s many groups of non-muslims who know what ramadan is and what eid is. you living in the UK should know about the effort supermarkets like Tesco and Asda (walmart) make to tend to the needs of fasting muslims.
anyway.. not everything needs to be “us v them” but i guess if it makes some of you feel better to play the moral high ground, good for you :k:
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
nahin meri jaan, baat ek nahin hay. Same as wishing Christmas to someone and adopting the entire festival and celebrating IT are different. Usi tarha 10% non-desi meal khanay aur 100% non-desi meal khanay main bhi faraq hay and same goes for how you conduct yourself
But oh, wait… I am blushed and flattered 
Shamma aagayee mujhko… 
Almost I agree with 70% of your post. Bohat si baaten you said which are entirely true and factual. But same people doesn’t mean that we start adopting their way of life. The way they spend their life, things that might draw people in confusion whether we are a Muslim or Christian or Hindu. That’s it. As long as we are adopting anything within the limits, within our boundaries, within the boundaries of our religions, there is no harm on accepting them & respecting them. It’s just us, (each of us on our own part, not to prove to others), who need to know what our limitations are and how far should we go on with that. Eventually, everyone will be judged over his own acts on the day of judgement
Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H left examples of Kindness, charity, goodwill and love indeed, but nowhere HE P.B.U.H mentioned that we should adopt the ways of their life.
I am not sure if its a Hadith or an Ayat, please if anyone of you know correct me if I am wrong, but the translation goes, “Jo jiski tarz-e-zindagi ikhtiyar karega, qayamat ke roz unhee main se uthaya jayega” and its actually about adopting the tarz-e-zindagi of non-muslims.
:k:
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Yeah naak ko idher se pakrro ya udher se…
I don’t think 10% should look down upon 100% or vice versa.
and you look so cute blushing.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Okay…people from a certain region will behave and act like other people from that region. American Muslims are American…they are not Pakistani nor are they supposed to be anything aside from American Muslims. They know football…not cricket and since Islam doesn’t have any cultural limitations I think we’re safe there.
Thanksgiving is a CULTURAL occasion celebrated ONLY in North America. This holiday is NOT celebrated by ANY other Christian on the planet. This is NOT a Christian holiday celebrated in their churches. If people are seriously going to have a go about this holiday then those threads over in the Wedding forum are your real target with all the mehndis and mayoons…those Muslims have more to answer for.
The people who keep thinking this is an innovation in Islam and Bid’ah have no knowledge of what Bid’ah really is. Seriously, before anyone points fingers and says this is bad or that is bad…be responsible and find something to back up your claims because kisi ko ghalat information denah bhi gunah hai. Education is a responsibility placed on our shoulders:
Also - if Thanksgiving is an innovation or changing Islam…its too late. Pakistanis have already turned it upside down during wedding season!
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Reha, I concur with almost everything you’ve said so far, at every point, every sentence. I just couldn’t agree anymore than this.
Queen, the tit for tat that you are asking for is already there. We just tend to ignore it. I know Christian and Hindu friends from my university days in Pakistan, who used to enjoy the festivities of eid with us. In USA, Indian doctors association that is mainly comprises of Hindus, hosted several iftaar dinners for the Muslim community of their area. Even Whitehouse hosts iftaar dinner every year. When my boss learnt that I took eid day from my personal vacation days, he converted it to a company granted off day. Churches offer their halls to Muslims for Friday prayers, often free and mostly at a very discounted rate.
They do all that for us, and we can’t even express our happiness on thier happy days?
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
True…Cafe Finjan in Chicago hosts a Jewish-Muslim Iftaar every year in an effort to build community relations.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
No one is lecturing you. So relax. Do whatever you feel like. But ready to and accept the criticism.
You completely missed the point.
**
No idea why you missed when I said enjoyment or joyful feeling by itself has no standard to make an act good or bad.**
Your whole argument was based on enjoyment and hence the answer followed basing on your false perception that any act which is enjoyed by people must be good and be accepted.
Please allow me to repeat:
**No. “Enjoyment in any act” has never been considered acceptable or standard by itself to judge those actions are right or wrong.
**
Cultural activities are different than religious (or anti-religious) activities.
Please keep things clean and straightforward and not mix these two separate entities.
No matter how much you try to convince me, my position will remain that people should be intelligent and smart enough to be able to differentiate between these two completely separate acts.
yes, people do mix religious celebrations with cultural acts, but at least have some sense to know what is religious and what is simply cultural.
P.S. More post(s) on their way when I get to them:
Sorry: I do not like to respond to several posts at the same time since the message then get lost in oblivion and the length of one post.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Of course we can and we should. We should be happy on their occasions, we should wish them, we should respect them and their festivities, and in last, I wouldn’t use “we should” but, “I would” at least not celebrate it in terms of Hanging in special Christmas parties, wearing a Halloween costume or carving a Pumpkin. I will wish them, I will respect them but I will not join them with their parties. That’s just me.
To express our happiness for their occasion doesn’t require a celebration. Respect and wishes are quite enough to express I think.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Very surprising post from you.
No idea where you came from and why?
You just accused the Prophet SAW for idol worshiping or agreeing with idol worshiping. Inaccurate and wrongful message.
No one is making others feel “inferior” if not following other’s religious acts or not celebrating other’s religious holidays. Nor they are somehow sending message they are superior to others by not following their religious festivals.
It is simply a myth. It is the same perception which I talked about which has no basis.
There is no reason for people to think if someone is not celebrating people of other religion are belittling other religions.
**Please start a new thread and post that event where the Prophet SAW offered prayers in Kaaba full of idols to show somehow IDOLS and their worship are acceptable so it can be discussed further.
**
Until then your post and position is completely invalid and unacceptable.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Truly agree with this :k:
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
This is very alarming and I should take English classes, if what I wrote suggested that Prophet worshiped idols 
If you read complete post, I was saying that Muslims should have confidence to face situation, where they can exercise their faith among the people of other faiths. Thats what Prophet did during his earlier years of Prophet-hood. I don’t think I need to start a new thread, that Kaaba was full of idols (360 or more) till the conquest of Makka and Prophet used to worship in Kaaba (of course not idols) in presence of those idols. Even Muslims did Umra after one year of Sulh e Hudaibiya, in presence of those idols.
The lesson I learned from this (anyone can agree or disagree to it), you have to be composed (not compromising) while living in multi-cultural / multi-religious society
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
its not an english issue, its that amazing diwanian “debate” skillz. quoting someone as something they never said. usually followed by a wink.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Valentine’s day no longer has any religious roots, nor does Halloween. Both are holidays that are purely for fun.
So yeah I’ll participate because it’s fun. It’s ok to be a muslim and do fun things for the sake of harmless entertainment.
Christmas and Easter are more religious and still are celebrated for religious reasons. But SANTA CLAUSE has nothing to do with Christianity and even strict Christians won’t get into that.
So since Santa Clause has no religious involvement for the most part and it’s a harmless fairly tale and a fun occasion for kids, I say why not. Santa clause, hot chocolate, and gift exchanges give me a nice feeling. It’s the only time when coworkers will go out of their way to do something nice for each other.
So occasions that bring people together in a nice harmless way, I think it’s totally ok for a muslim to participate.
Not to prove anything to anyone, but just to have fun.
News flash: no one is a slave in western countries, wish I could say the same about Pakistan where slave and indentured labor is a norm. What about that?
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Your example of the Prophet SAW was completely out of context and misleading to show somehow Muslims these days have to follow non-Muslims religious celebrations as non-Muslims do AFTER the prophet SAW time.
You now mention that the event was before his SAW prophet-hood time.
The prophet SAW as you earlier posted did not offer prayers as it was later sanctioned when Islam was “refreshed” through his SAW prophet-hood. He SAW did not ‘pray’ to any of the idols or agreed with idols being present.
It was pre-Islamic time. Pagans ruled the area and few others including those from the prophet SAW family despite not agreeing with them on their acts , did take the responsibility to do volunteer work for Kaaba since it was considered sacred place.
I do know that the Prophet SAW made Muharrram 10th fasting as part of Islamic teaching after finding out that jews were doing this for centuries in respect to Musa AS (Moses) and parting of Sea . But He SAW also fasted on Muharran 9th to be different from the Jews.
I think this fasting was even before Ramadan fasting was made obligatory. Not sure.
It does not matter if any even has no longer any religious significance among people of this time. What matters is that the religious significance or anti-religious significance brought those days. The origin cannot be changed.
Why not do the same acts on different month or days? Why be so specific on timing? That is the question.
I already said “fun” has never been considered as the standard of what is right and what is wrong.
News Flash:
The question was about slave mentality, not slavery.
Sorry: More detailed posts are on their way when I get time. I keep losing tract of who wrote what, and will try to answer any comment or concern. Just been busy.
Reha: Apology accepted. Generalization is not what should be practiced. My sincere advice: Use “some” before talking about a group of people **and criticizing them **so it does not appear as if ALL people of a group are bad or wrong. **Unless **you are talking about common and acceptable traits of those people. If I generalize, then let me know.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
There are religiously neutral and those holidays which are NOT against any religious beliefs, that are fine to be participated on. Nothing wrong in following those holidays and occasions.
I earlier posted in Thanksgiving holiday thread that it is fine to follow and participate in that. As long as the turkey is halal/zabiha.
Patriotic day like 4th of July for American Muslims, or Memorial day etc. is all fine and dandy.