A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@Muzna

Reha,

I don’t think that some folks can be brought out from the “us vs them” mentality. (I’m referring to the Muslims vs Non-Muslims.)
People like you and I don’t see it as “us vs them”. We don’t see it as a competition or a challenge.

Neither do I Muzna. It’s just an observation. Respecting their festive is not a competition or challenge neither a sign of kamzor imaan nor even accepting it, is. It’s just about celebrating it the way it is genuinely celebrated and I don’t think you celebrate it Genuinely the way it is celebrated so please don’t count yourself in

[Muzna]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

Reha please read my post below.

Wishing occasions is something else Muzna. What makes me sad is, the way I see a lot of Muslims around who actually celebrate such festive the way it is celebrated genuinely. Throwing parties, waiting for such festive as Oh, Christmas aanay wali hay, ye karna hay wo kerna hay, ye khareedna hay etc.

I read above in one of your comments that you respect such festive and in return you need the same… now if truly your neighbor respects it, gives your presents on eid, celebrate it with you, I see no harm if you pay her back the same respect. Because then its not about “Celebrating” an event but more of respecting each other’s customs, traditions. But if your neighbor doesn’t even wish you happy eid, applies mehendi for fun purposes, and doesn’t even care about your festive… why do you need to show how welcoming you are towards her festive??

Probably this is the darya-dili I was talking about

Queen…of course I’m not going to start listing all the non-Muslim people in my life that reciprocate and give respect to my culture…there are simply too many.

But don’t you wonder why there are such people in my life? Why do you think that is the case?

And even if there weren’t…are you suggesting that respect should only be given once it is received?

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@khattichic

There is a South African girl that lives in my neighborhood (Caucasion, Christian) who grew up in a predominantly Muslim area of Johanassberg. Every Ramadan she comes to our Masjid for community Iftar, dressed in a shalwar kameez with her hair covered. She brings her husband and sons. Every single weekend. Friday-Sunday. I’ve been seeing this for 3-4 years now. She comes to Eid Namaz and even pays into the Ramadan fund each family of our Masjid pitches in for to pay for the festivities and Eid Carnival. Why, you ask? Because she grew up in a Muslim area an adopted certain customs. And would you like to know how our Muslim sisters (all Indo/Pak by the way) treat her? They completely ignored her at first. And then when they slowly started “accepting” her into the fold, a select few started snickering and spreading rumors about how we shouldn’t be too friendly to her because she is probably a mole/spy for the FBI out to harm us.

Yes, this is a true story. We love to point out how no one accepts or understands our taur/tareeqay, but when someones does we cast doubt on them. So classy.

It’s so sad how narrow minded we Muslims can be. Why is assimilation, in a cultural, not religious sense, perceived as a threat?

And for the posters who keep seeing you don’t see large groups of Christians/Westerners celebrating with Muslims..who cares? Does everything have to be a tit for tat?

There is no doubt about why I called us, Sakhi, in previous post. Of course not everything has to be a tit for tat.

[Reha]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

Of course RG, I read it thoroughly and I am sure I haven’t offended you. My comments here are not to corner anyone here, these are just based on my personal observations. I agree to your last line but this doesn’t happen every time.

That’t the point deeba. Why don’t they think they can enjoy our festive and what makes us think we enjoy their festive?? And ok, if we think, it’s because they don’t find interest in it, what do we do to make them feel interested in our religion?? Our festive? We might take part in their festive taking this as a custom thing, or proving ourselves as open-minded towards them as RG mentioned but sometimes it can turn the table… they can treat it as our Kamzor Iman, (while it isn’t), they might think, oh these Muslims, they can celebrate anything. When a large Non-Muslim community can be stiff about NOT celebrating our occasions, why shall We?? Why don’t they worry about proving themselves as very welcoming and open-minded community?? Why don’t they care? Why don’t they even enjoy?

I don’t mean to corner you queen but if you think participating is Gunaah…you should cancel the makeup bookings because you’re aiding in that Gunaah. Its like helping to cook a pork roast but not eating it.

AND one more thing - ALL of us Muslims have a RESPONSIBILITY in Islam. Not just the Muslims that were raised in the West. Apki zimmidari bhi hai apna Imaan phaylana. The people that I know of who have a good impression of Muslims…someone gave it to them. Kisi aur ne apni zimmidari samaj ke vo beej boya hai. Vo hi zimmidari apki aur meri hai. Matlab - they will care if you become friendly with them. Invite them. Treat them like human being that Allah swt also created…your Creator also created your fellow human beings. They are not na-paak or najis. If they treated you this way, you would not be living in the UK.

@Muzna

Reha,

I don’t think that some folks can be brought out from the “us vs them” mentality. (I’m referring to the Muslims vs Non-Muslims.)
People like you and I don’t see it as “us vs them”. We don’t see it as a competition or a challenge.

That’s the thing…I guess I should be grateful I don’t feel that way.

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@Muzna

Queen…of course I’m not going to start listing all the non-Muslim people in my life that reciprocate and give respect to my culture…there are simply too many.

But don’t you wonder why there are such people in my life? Why do you think that is the case?

And even if there weren’t…are you suggesting that respect should only be given once it is received?

No, that’s not what I am suggesting. What I am saying is, respect everyone, everyone’s religion, their customs, their traditions, festive, but yes, IF they celebrate your occasion with you, you should treat back the same. IF they don’t, why do you need to?

p.s. “YOU” above is used as third person. Again it’s totally what I think. Of course, I am no one to question here on the beliefs and faiths. Not everyone will agree to me and neither would I. I think, mess starts when people think that the comments in any certain threads are thrown to each other indirectly and are raised to question each other’s belief, while it is not true. Sometimes, discussions should remain discussions, and if we have such a big heart to respect other religions and their festive, I think we should have enough big hearts to respect each others views too, where “each others” is referred to Muslims. We, Muslims. We can respect our own Muslim Brothers too!!

[Muzna]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

No, that’s not what I am suggesting. What I am saying is, respect everyone, everyone’s religion, their customs, their traditions, festive, but yes, IF they celebrate your occasion with you, you should treat back the same. IF they don’t, why do you need to?

Actually…that is exactly what you are saying. Read your own post.
And I vehemently disagree with you on this.

I don’t think that you should have to wait for them to celebrate your occasion with you before you treat them back the same.

I think one should not be afraid to take the first step. Wait for reciprocity and then decide whether or not to take the next.

[Reha]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

I think we should have enough big hearts to respect each others views too, where “each others” is referred to Muslims. We, Muslims. We can respect our own Muslim Brothers too!!

We don’t. This thread and the posts in the this thread opposing Western Muslims and all we do is a prime example of that.

If and when we’re attacked its okay because we are not real Muslims. If and when Pakistani Muslims are attacked, its not okay because they are real Muslims.

Is this fair? No. Its not.

Respect is a two way street.

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@Reha

I don’t mean to corner you queen but if you think participating is Gunaah…you should cancel the makeup bookings because you’re aiding in that Gunaah. Its like helping to cook a pork roast but not eating it.

AND one more thing - ALL of us Muslims have a RESPONSIBILITY in Islam. Not just the Muslims that were raised in the West. Apki zimmidari bhi hai apna Imaan phaylana. The people that I know of who have a good impression of Muslims…someone gave it to them. Kisi aur ne apni zimmidari samaj ke vo beej boya hai. Vo hi zimmidari apki aur meri hai. Matlab - they will care if you become friendly with them. Invite them. Treat them like human being that Allah swt also created…your Creator also created your fellow human beings. They are not na-paak or najis. If they treated you this way, you would not be living in the UK.

That’s the thing…I guess I should be grateful I don’t feel that way.

Reha, is terhan to apnay shohor ke ilawa kisi aur mard ke samnay bohat zada banna sanwarna bhi gunah hay… so if I go by that logic, that probably me, you and all other beautician should shut down our business because we are Aiding in that Gunaah… NO??

You are mixing up two things Reha. Celebrating non-Muslim festive and earning from your business are two different things. Mene koi new rates introduce nahin karwaye on my brochure that, “C’mon, Special Christmas Rates, come and get your eyebrows done free with a Makeup” blah blah

Again, those who couldn’t get me, just mentioning once again… celebrating such events according to me here are NOT, being happy or not, or cursing blah blah. I went to town last evening and my motive was to shop for my baby… there I saw they were having fireworks and I pretty enjoyed it, I stood there, I captured pics, but that DOESN’t mean that I was celebrating it. My definition of celebration is, If I were going for shopping for the solely purpose of Christmas Shopping… For Partying, For Halloween, For Easter etc etc. Now that’s the difference. It’s not like, fireworks ho rahay thay and main BUUUTT banke wahan se nikl aayi ke Huh, to kia hua, unka religion hay… mein kyun enjoy karun. Its NOT like that. I am talking here about those, who celebrate it the genuine way.

Also… I am glad to read here a lot of Non-Muslim stories who actually take part in Muslims Festive. I think, this forum truly needs one thread on that which can clear a lot of things and would be a positive addition. Let me start a separate thread

[Reha]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

But if your neighbor doesn’t even wish you happy eid, applies mehendi for fun purposes, and doesn’t even care about your festive… why do you need to show how welcoming you are towards her festive??

Probably this is the darya-dili I was talking about

Darya Dilli should be a trait in Muslims world wide…especially at this point in time.

Apko kyun pehel karne mein burai lagti hai?

[khattichic]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

No, that’s not what I am suggesting. What I am saying is, respect everyone, everyone’s religion, their customs, their traditions, festive, but yes, IF they celebrate your occasion with you, you should treat back the same. IF **they don’t, why do you need to? **

and if we have such a big heart to respect other religions and their festive

1. the first bolded sentence is precisely what I mean by “tit for tat”

2. I’m sorry, but I really need to point this out: “festive” is an adjective, used to describe a mood or feeling… “festival” is the world I think you’re meaning…it means an actual event or occasion. You’ve been interchanging the two in all your posts..sorry but it was really getting to me.

[Reha]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

Reha, is terhan to apnay shohor ke ilawa kisi aur mard ke samnay bohat zada banna sanwarna bhi gunah hay… so if I go by that logic, that probably me, you and all other beautician should shut down our business because we are Aiding in that Gunaah… NO??

You are mixing up two things Reha. Celebrating non-Muslim festive and earning from your business are two different things. Mene koi new rates introduce nahin karwaye on my brochure that, “C’mon, Special Christmas Rates, come and get your eyebrows done free with a Makeup” blah blah

Again, those who couldn’t get me, just mentioning once again… celebrating such events according to me here are NOT, being happy or not, or cursing blah blah. I went to town last evening and my motive was to shop for my baby… there I saw they were having fireworks and I pretty enjoyed it, I stood there, I captured pics, but that DOESN’t mean that I was celebrating it. My definition of celebration is, If I were going for shopping for the solely purpose of Christmas Shopping… For Partying, For Halloween, For Easter etc etc. Now that’s the difference. It’s not like, fireworks ho rahay thay and main BUUUTT banke wahan se nikl aayi ke Huh, to kia hua, unka religion hay… mein kyun enjoy karun. Its NOT like that. I am talking here about those, who celebrate it the genuine way.

Also… I am glad to read here a lot of Non-Muslim stories who actually take part in Muslims Festive. I think, this forum truly needs one thread on that which can clear a lot of things and would be a positive addition. Let me start a separate thread

I am not mixing the two at all.

When you go to 7-11…you see alcohol there. The Muslim owner doesn’t drink it but he sells it. He is also committing Gunah.

If we go by your logic then its wrong to do makeup on someone who is celebrating these holidays because you are helping them do it.

Looking good for your husband is recommended…its also your responsibility.

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@Muzna

Actually…that is exactly what you are saying. Read your own post.
And I vehemently disagree with you on this.

I don’t think that you should have to wait for them to celebrate your occasion with you before you treat them back the same.

I think one should not be afraid to take the first step. Wait for reciprocity and then decide whether or not to take the next.

@Reha

We don’t. This thread and the posts in the this thread opposing Western Muslims and all we do is a prime example of that.

If and when we’re attacked its okay because we are not real Muslims. If and when Pakistani Muslims are attacked, its not okay because they are real Muslims.

Is this fair? No. Its not.

Respect is a two way street.

You two almost think alike but contradict here… ye kesa insaaf hay aali jaan… Ghair Muslimo ke liye we shouldnt be afraid to take the steps and apnay hi Musalmaan baradaraan ke liye, respect is two way street??

Again, my post here are solely based on my personal observations off to GS world. It’s nothing to do about desi or pardesi. So if any of you think that I am here to question anyone’s beliefs and faiths… No I am not.
Doosro ke comments ki main zimmedaar nahin hun!!

[Muzna]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

You two almost think alike but contradict here… ye kesa insaaf hay aali jaan… Ghair Muslimo ke liye we shouldnt be afraid to take the steps and apnay hi Musalmaan baradaraan ke liye, respect is two way street??

Again, my post here are solely based on my personal observations off to GS world. It’s nothing to do about desi or pardesi. So if any of you think that I am here to question anyone’s beliefs and faiths… No I am not.
Doosro ke comments ki main zimmedaar nahin hun!!

You are comparing two different people’s comments queen.
You are doing exactly what you don’t want to be accused of.

And for the record…nobody is holding you responsible for anyone else’s comments. This is a general discussion and we are all simply sharing views.

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@Reha

Darya Dilli should be a trait in Muslims world wide…especially at this point in time.

Apko kyun pehel karne mein burai lagti hai?

Mujhay? LOL. reha, you just said, respect is a two way street.

@khattichic

1. the first bolded sentence is precisely what I mean by “tit for tat”

2. I’m sorry, but I really need to point this out: “festive” is an adjective, used to describe a mood or feeling… “festival” is the world I think you’re meaning…it means an actual event or occasion. You’ve been interchanging the two in all your posts..sorry but it was really getting to me.

Khatti, you shouldn’t be sorry. Thanks for correcting me. Pehli hi dafa main bol deti yaar. Side me

@Reha

I am not mixing the two at all.

When you go to 7-11…you see alcohol there. The Muslim owner doesn’t drink it but he sells it. He is also committing Gunah.

If we go by your logic then its wrong to do makeup on someone who is celebrating these holidays because you are helping them do it.

Looking good for your husband is recommended…its also your responsibility.

Still, that doesn’t answer me

@Muzna

You are comparing two different people’s comments queen.
You are doing exactly what you don’t want to be accused of.

And for the record…nobody is holding you responsible for anyone else’s comments. This is a general discussion and we are all simply sharing views.

That’s what I am saying. Me and a lot of others might be sounding same but there is still some difference and I am feeling a bit odd to answer those questions which I am not even raising questions for.

If you, Reha and others, don’t BAQAIDA celebrate it, why even justifying the situation, You guys are not the one I am talking about

P.S.. Ab khudara khana khanay janay do, bhook lag rahi hay

[Sajalina]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

There is no doubt about why I called us, Sakhi, in previous post. Of course not everything has to be a tit for tat.

We (Muslims/Pakistanis) are NOT sakhi when it comes to accepting other cultures… . just look around this thread, have you witnessed anything sakhi at all?

It’s not about being sakhi or not, you live in a country for a while you start to adapt their ways, you start to eat their foods. Are you saying you only eat desi foods and wear shalwar kamiz while living in the UK and never ever consume non desi foods or wear western clothes?

If your answer is you only stick to desi foods and clothes then at least I can see where your argument is coming from but if your answer is yes I do consume non desi foods and wear western clothes then I find this whole thing very contradicting on your part and anyone else who has the same views as yourself.

[muqawwee123]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@diwana

So your answer is agreeing with the No: 1 option?

I don’t know what **“****religion is not always to be carried as 'handle with care” **means.

Religion is important element in large majority of people ever lived or living on this great place named Earth.

Only a minority of people ever lived or living on this place have no respect for religion.

And yet, somehow these minority Anti-Religious people have assumed power and control over majority religious people by taking over powerful tools like media, weapons etc. over the religious people who are passive, weak and complacent.

‘Handle with care’ mean we don’t need to carry this tag in a way to convey people ‘look we are Muslims and our faiths are so fragile that if we interacted with, start mingling with you in your festivals we would lose our faiths, so pardon us please and don’t expect us in any of your cultural or other occasions’.

If people can practice their faith without hurting others or making them feel inferior or portraying themselves as superior in some way, then why not. A Muslim should have enough confidence to face such situation. Didn’t prophet (SAW) offer prayers in kaaba full of idols? What does this teach us? Sibghat ullah (Allah ka rung) itna kacha to nahin hota ke mail jol se utar jae?

As most posters mentioned it here that they don’t celebrate occasions like Xmas in the same as is being celebrate by the Christians. They don’t decorate tree or exchange gifts. I don’t see a big deal in it if it is so. Even exchanging gifts is not a bad idea. Its common in all cultures. neighbors got their rights. Islam doesn’t say that only care for your Muslim neighbors. Does it?

[Reha]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

You two almost think alike but contradict here… ye kesa insaaf hay aali jaan… Ghair Muslimo ke liye we shouldnt be afraid to take the steps and apnay hi Musalmaan baradaraan ke liye, respect is two way street??

Again, my post here are solely based on my personal observations off to GS world. It’s nothing to do about desi or pardesi. So if any of you think that I am here to question anyone’s beliefs and faiths… No I am not.
Doosro ke comments ki main zimmedaar nahin hun!!

You’re contradicting yourself.

We “western” Muslims ARE Muslims. If you choose feel sorry for us…how are you respecting us? Should we feel sorry for you? That you cannot experience what we do?

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@Sajalina

We (Muslims/Pakistanis) are NOT sakhi when it comes to accepting other cultures… . just look around this thread, have you witnessed anything sakhi at all? It’s not about being sakhi or not, you live in a country for a while you start to adapt their ways, you start to eat their foods. Are you saying you only eat desi foods and wear shalwar kamiz while living in the UK and never ever consume non desi foods or wear western clothes?

If your answer is you only stick to desi foods and clothes then at least I can see where your argument is coming from but if your answer is yes I do consume non desi foods and wear western clothes then I find this whole thing very contradicting on your part and anyone else who has the same views as yourself.

Yes, I stick to Desi Food. Not entirely but 90% yes & so What if I wear a bit western when it is utterly required? I respect their Religion, their festivals and sometimes wish them too. Itna to haq banta hay

Han agar main pooray tariqay se inke rang main rang jaaon, pooray tariqay se apna rehen sehen, khana peehna, urhna pehnna karloon and then I say, I should not celebrate their festivals then indeed, count me in for contradictory statements!!

[queen_24]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@Reha

You’re contradicting yourself.

We “western” Muslims ARE Muslims. If you choose feel sorry for us…how are you respecting us? Should we feel sorry for you? That you cannot experience what we do?

Reha, you are taking it too personal. If you keep bringing we western Muslims, you this Muslim, he that Muslim, Desi Pardesi, it’s not gonna work. I am sorry, but you taking me too wrong. can’t really define and explain again and again, itni sakat nahin hay.

Paani piyo

[muqawwee123]

Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations

@queen_24

Reha, you are taking it too personal. If you keep bringing we western Muslims, you this Muslim, he that Muslim, Desi Pardesi, it’s not gonna work. I am sorry, but you taking me too wrong. can’t really define and explain again and again, itni sakat nahin hay.

Paani piyo

chill karo…

Desi Pardesi bhai bhai, kis ne ye aag lagai :mirch: