Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Posts merged.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I agree with this home girl here. If you have made up your mind..why are you asking. And since..everyone is giving their opinion. Ill tell you mine. We do not celebrate Christmas. Nor bring tree or exchange gifts in our house. However..at work it is different. We live in very multi-culture society. There are Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims co-workers under me. And this holiday season is just bahana..that all of us get together for dinner or even go to Christmas party. I find nothing wrong with that.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I agree with the Diwana post about enjoyment. If enjoyment is the reason then why don’t party or do clubbing? Forget the non Muslims, our Muslims do these and there is nothing more enjoyable than that.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I asked questions which covered as much as one would expect without any bias and gave open ended conclusion so the reasons can be added.
But I do reserve the right to comment on answers don’t I?
The questions are not about cultural activities and ‘multiculturalism’ has nothing to do with this thread.
For example: X-Mas is not a cultural holiday.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
If you have a home with a mortgage or car on finance or a wallet full of credit cards you’re really not in any place to be lecturing me or other Muslims on our own personal choices.. Those who live in glass houses and all that..
And Diwani obviously having a Xmas tree is not hurting/harming people like torture.. Only someone delusional would compare the two.. the same goes for taking drugs..
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Diwana,
To you it might not be, but for me the multi-cultural* (I mean it as a generic descriptive, not a buzzword) is relevant. I do not live in a vacuum.
Most days I make Thoreau look a social butterfly, but I do have some friends. If they want to feed me on their day of celebration, I am not going to say no. If I gift them a trinket as gratitude it does not blur the boundaries of whatever religious sentiment I may have. Nor does it blur theirs when they reciprocate at my celebrations. The only thing I am conforming to is human interaction. Now, if I began recreating entire manger scenes on the front lawn every year, just to appease the whiteys, then I might start to worry.
Also, your original post is indeed loaded with bias. An example, the underlining of ‘Slave mentality’.
*Multiple cultures bring multiple religions, multiple religions bring multiple customs.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
What excuse? I answered your question. Truth be told I didn’t even have to do that much because, based on how you worded your query, it simply does not apply to me.
To indulge you I’ll answer without the qualifiers…
I participate in these events/holidays (to the extent that it does not infringe upon my faith) because they are the culture of the land that I live in. I prefer to be tolerant of my neighbours and seek accord in my life. I appreciate it when someone stands steadfast in their faith, be they Christian, Jewish, Hindu or whatever and I expect the same respect and tolerance to be afforded to me when I invite them to participate in those festivities that are near and dear to me. I would much prefer to be seen as an ally and one who is open to differences rather than a rigid person that makes no room in their life for someone else’s beliefs.
I simply do not fear that recognizing and respecting someone else’s way of celebrating their faith will jeopardize mine.
And yeah…cuz it’s fun too.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
My husband’s gora boss fasted during this past Ramahan to support his fellow muslims employees at work. I know another person (non-muslim) who did the same last year. It maybe a couple of people but we just can’t write everyone off the same way 'Oh how come gorays are not celebrating eid with us?!!! Actions speak louder than words, if we keep an open mind about their faith/celebrations, slowly but surely others will recognize ours as well
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
RG, I am not talking about one or two persons here. In that case, my friend who is a christian, also loves celebrating our festive. Last time, during Ramadan, she didn’t fast but she enjoyed the iftar with me and often uses the arabic words that I do like SubhanAllah, MashAllah and In sha Allah.
What I am talking about here is a large community of Muslims. My views are not based on GS members, I have my life outside GS too. I live here in UK & I see how “Many” Muslims love to shop for occasions like Christmas and Halloween and all other festive just on the name of cultural thing. I have even pre-booked makeover appointments from many Muslim ladies for Christmas Parties.
So ok, I know a couple of people from here and there enjoy each other’s customs/religious festive but these days, I am surprised to see, there is a LARGE community of Muslims, who feel nothing wrong in celebrating their occasions on the name of Humanity, love, care, friendships, enjoyments, culture!!! That makes me sad.
I have even met those Non-Muslims, who say, What is an Eid? No, we don’t celebrate Eid. & few of them even said, yes, we know what is Eid, but why should WE celebrate it? its an Islamic Festive!! The point is, when they don’t take our festive as customs and try to “enjoy it” (where they are more open-minded and liberal), why should we say its a cultural thing and Oh come’on it doesn’t effect my faith…or “mera imaan itna kamzor nahin”!!!
Think about it.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
^ Please read my post again
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Queen_24, that’s more probably because they don’t think they’d enjoy it rather than because they think they shouldn’t do it..
They’ll adopt the things they enjoy and which interest them.. which is normal..
Haven’t we done the same with a lot of our wedding customs?
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I think your uncle and aunt are awesome people and should continue to do what they do because they can. Similarly, so can anyone else.
One of our family friends is a Hindu family born and raised in KHI…they actually do wish us on every occasion. When I first met them, I was surprised…they were pure Hindus but aside from a few subtle things, you couldn’t tell. Very nice people and extremely appreciative of all things Pakistani including food.
Agar aap kisi aur mulk mein apna ghar basana chahti hein…to beshak karein. Lekin jis mulk mein aap hein, unke taur tareeqay apna ne se aap Muslim se non-Muslim nahin ban jati hein. Us hi tarha…jab koi non-Muslim apna mulk chorke kisi Muslim mulk mein rehte hein…to vo taur tareeqay seekh lete hein.
This is common sense aur is mein alag se samjhanay wali koi baat nahin hai.
Thank you TLK
**
Aw…okay sorry if that hurt your feelings but its true and just an honest observation. That’s all.
I notice that we as Muslims have acts of faith that we stick to religiously and feverishly. But not many people actually have faith in their religion or Allah. And let me clarify before you crack your keyboard into pieces:
We’re so hell bent on thinking the entire world is out to destroy Islam. Islam has been around for longer than you and I…its a major world religion. It’s growth or existence cannot be threatened by these pathetic holidays. Allah Tala ka banaya huwa mazhab apka aur mera mauhtaaj nahin hai. Ego ko kam karo. Muslims believe in the “act” of praying…but have no faith in their prayer or their Creator. The faith I speak of is not something I can convey in a paragraph here or there. Its a bit deep and requires a certain amount of confidence which most do not possess. Yeah, that sounds cocky but its a response to what I am seeing.
Apne aap mein hi magan hein saray Muslims…ye mat karo vo mat karo. Shia ghalat hai, Ahmedi ghalat hai, blah blah. Ye sari Muslims ki qismein hein na…to matlab jab Muslims ko apne hi bhai pe aitmaad nahin hai…to Allah pe kya hoga? Hum jaise “sellouts” pe kaise hoga? **
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
queen…what makes you sad about this?
and how do you see it affecting your imaan if you were to buy a Christmas gift for your Christian neighbour?
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Of course RG, I read it thoroughly and I am sure I haven’t offended you. My comments here are not to corner anyone here, these are just based on my personal observations. I agree to your last line but this doesn’t happen every time.
That’t the point deeba. Why don’t they think they can enjoy our festive and what makes us think we enjoy their festive?? And ok, if we think, it’s because they don’t find interest in it, what do we do to make them feel interested in our religion?? Our festive? We might take part in their festive taking this as a custom thing, or proving ourselves as open-minded towards them as RG mentioned but sometimes it can turn the table… they can treat it as our Kamzor Iman, (while it isn’t), they might think, oh these Muslims, they can celebrate anything. When a large Non-Muslim community can be stiff about NOT celebrating our occasions, why shall We?? Why don’t they worry about proving themselves as very welcoming and open-minded community?? Why don’t they care? Why don’t they even enjoy?
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Reha,
I don’t think that some folks can be brought out from the “us vs them” mentality. (I’m referring to the Muslims vs Non-Muslims.)
People like you and I don’t see it as “us vs them”. We don’t see it as a competition or a challenge.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
It makes me sad when I see Muslims looking down on others…kyun apni duniya itni choti banayi huwi hai?
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
**Diwana, **
** Just because Muslims are minority in “west”, does not mean then have to act exactly same as majority non-Muslims.**
The only act being alleged **non-Islamic** is exchanging gifts / cards. Everything else in terms of non-Islamic dressing, eating, and general lifestyle – Muslims in their Eastern homelands twist their religious postures in a way that prominently **surpasses** us Western Muslims.
** Non-Muslims when living in majority Muslim countries are not forced to follow Muslim festivals and nor do they follow Muslim holidays.**
I have a few non-Muslim friends who fast with me during the month of Ramadan because they like to. So should I call up the Church of Resurrection and suggest clerics to **isolate **the three of them from Christianity? Not only do I interpret these shallow misconceptions as totally distant from our religion itself, but I also find this approach disgustingly despicable.
It is Muslims who are hell bent on and find excuses to follow Non-Muslim religious or any other anti-religious festivals.
No idea why.
There are some people who take complete part in following up in every aspect possible. Every post that I make in this thread will pertain to myself and **only **those who exchange gifts – nothing more. Theoretically we’re the more benevolent, peaceful bunch so maintaining that childish ‘well they didn’t do it, why should I” attitude further draws the line of very little dissimilarity.
** There is no real thing as following “proper ettiquate” when it contradicts religious belief.**
Once again, I’m wasn’t discussing the celebration of these holidays.
Exchanging gifts is etiquette.
Celebrating these holidays is religious belief.
I’m sure if the same list of complaining hypocrites ever got an Eid gift from a non-Muslim, they’d be **okay **with it. 
You have wrong idea of being assimilated. There is a difference in being assimilated and becoming like others…by actions.
Assimilation has nothing to do with going out of your way and shifting your religion, individuality and whirling into someone else the next day. It simply means to go with the flow –** without** disrupting theirs or your own waves of water.
Definition: Religious assimilation refers to the passive inclusion of persons or aspects of another religion as members or elements within a particular faith.
And I’m the one with the wrong idea of assimilation?
**Muslims do not get brownie points in following those religious celebrations.
All they do is make them feel better they they are part of a larger crowd.
**
Diwana, I love the way you highlighted aspects that only raise more **arguments **and failed to consider everything else beyond that. My post did not refer to celebrating Christmas, Halloween or Thanksgiving nor did it encourage hanging jingle bells on personalized Christmas trees brought from a tag sale. I **do not, by any means, encourage **the celebration of non-Muslim holidays – I don’t celebrate them.
Your asked Muslims why we’re **‘trying’ **to participate in these holidays by exchanging gifts and sending cards. My only participation involves handing gifts to professors and friends – an action which you clearly determine very inflammatory to Islam.
Genuinely, most of your deeds whether good, or bad, depend upon our conscientious intentions. Which in this case, my intention is nothing other than fraternity.
Jews do not follow Christians holidays and Christians do not follow Jews Holidays. None of these two follow Hindu or Muslims religious days, but odd enough, some Muslims jump up and down to follow others religious based holidays in the name of being assimilated!!!
My assimilation comment had nothing to do with going out and following the Jewish or the Christian holidays. If we were wholly assimilated correspondingly to your predisposition, we wouldn’t branch out the way we do. We are more than decipherable in regards to our identity as Muslims. The fact remains, we have set our parameters and margins as to what and how much of it is incendiary to our religious beings. I think you’re having some trouble keeping up with your own question. You did not ask ‘Why do Muslims celebrate non-Muslim holidays?’ You asked why we participate, in the form of exchanging gifts. So I suggest you stick to your original question and quit finding ways around that.
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
There is a South African girl that lives in my neighborhood (Caucasion, Christian) who grew up in a predominantly Muslim area of Johanassberg. Every Ramadan she comes to our Masjid for community Iftar, dressed in a shalwar kameez with her hair covered. She brings her husband and sons. Every single weekend. Friday-Sunday. I’ve been seeing this for 3-4 years now. She comes to Eid Namaz and even pays into the Ramadan fund each family of our Masjid pitches in for to pay for the festivities and Eid Carnival. Why, you ask? Because she grew up in a Muslim area an adopted certain customs. And would you like to know how our Muslim sisters (all Indo/Pak by the way) treat her? They completely ignored her at first. And then when they slowly started “accepting” her into the fold, a select few started snickering and spreading rumors about how we shouldn’t be too friendly to her because she is probably a mole/spy for the FBI out to harm us.
Yes, this is a true story. We love to point out how no one accepts or understands our taur/tareeqay, but when someones does we cast doubt on them. So classy.
It’s so sad how narrow minded we Muslims can be. Why is assimilation, in a cultural, not religious sense, perceived as a threat?
And for the posters who keep seeing you don’t see large groups of Christians/Westerners celebrating with Muslims..who cares? Does everything have to be a tit for tat?
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
Reha please read my post below.
Wishing occasions is something else Muzna. What makes me sad is, the way I see a lot of Muslims around who actually celebrate such festive the way it is celebrated genuinely. Throwing parties, waiting for such festive as Oh, Christmas aanay wali hay, ye karna hay wo kerna hay, ye khareedna hay etc.
I read above in one of your comments that you respect such festive and in return you need the same… now if truly your neighbor respects it, gives your presents on eid, celebrate it with you, I see no harm if you pay her back the same respect. Because then its not about “Celebrating” an event but more of respecting each other’s customs, traditions. But if your neighbor doesn’t even wish you happy eid, applies mehendi for fun purposes, and doesn’t even care about your festive… why do you need to show how welcoming you are towards her festive??
Probably this is the darya-dili I was talking about 
Re: A question for Muslims who feel they need to conform to perceived expectations
I did.
See if Christmas was only about jesus(pbuh)'s birthday, I see nothing wrong in taking few minutes to pray for him.
To remind my self what mighty prophet he was.
But see, Christmas is been taken over bay big fat Santa-clause, I don’t see Christians going in church first thing in the morning on 25th. In fact their church is more like shopping malls.
So from Jesus(pbuh) and church -------to---- santa and shopping mall.
Now we have seen when money is involved, people with more money can make masses dance around on any tone. Even if its about Santa-clause.
If you ask me there is hardly any thing christian left in Christmas.
Now when flood of shopping suggestion come from TV/radio both christian and Muslim get effected.
Simple is that.
You would have been right in complaining, if there was church bell ring on 25th and Muslim would started going to church.