A question for indian muslims in this forum

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101

Can we then all agree & pass this article 356 sec b para 3 of the 77th session of lok sabha of govt of bharat

“IT IS AGREED BY HINDU MAJORITY OF INDIA & MUSLIM MAJORITY OF REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN THAT WE ARE MOST HAPPY IN OUR RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES MINORETIES UIN BOTH COUNTRIES ARE INSIGNIFICANT PAIN IN THE A&& TO BE BOTHERED WITH ..SO LISTEN YOU MINRETIES SHATTAP..”

NOW can we have show of hands before this amendment is momentous as the one amendment to both Pakistani & Indian constitution tabled read & passed unaniously simultaneously in ISLAMABAD & DELHI on 26 th June 2002

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smooth.gif

Father is like the referigerator light .You only notice it when it is fused!

102

[quote]
Originally posted by Victory:
**quote: Spock

... I am so glad I live in a nation where I can practice my religion freely and without any obstructions or fear... I thank the great Quiad for bestowing this great favour of freedom for us... **
[/quote]

Talk to a gupper named adnan ahmed, he is an ahmedi, and look how patriotic he is...

103

[quote]
Originally posted by kumarakn:
**Only in Pakistan Ahmedia have to identify themselves when they cast a vote (that is if Pakistanis ever vote)

Only in Pakistan should a minority declare his religion and faith when he applies for a passport.

Pakistan is a country that is officially formed in the named of one particular religion.

What an irony, they comment on the quality of secularism in India, whose first citizen will soon come from the minority.**
[/quote]

Wrong again... All Non-Muslims have to identify themselves before registering for a vote...

Wrong again, even a Muslims has to state his religion on the passport application form...

Kamarukn, looks like you are forgetting what you did to your so called Muslim country men in Gujrat eh?

104

[quote]
Originally posted by Spock:
** Talk to a gupper named adnan ahmed, he is an ahmedi, and look how patriotic he is...**
[/quote]

Well No one is questioning is patriotism. What we are questioning is your this statement "I live in a nation where I can practice my religion freely and without any obstructions or fear..." .

I know you can, Can He ????

AK

105

On second thought I reproduce part of some discussio0n between you and Adnan Ahmad :- on this thread :- http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum4/HTML/004616.html

Adnan Ahmed

Senior Member
Posts: 1121
posted June 21, 2002 01:22 AM

quote:

Originally posted by Spock:
Adnan, how will they disriminate if they find out? If it is gauranteed that they do not discriminate, you will have no problems with this voting system right?
Adnan, from what I have observed, you are angry not on this particular electoral polls issue but the law itself that states that Ahmedis are not Muslims. I mean you are saying that you are Muslims, and do not want to be treated as Non-Muslims. So wouldnt that be a another issue, redeciding if Ahmedis truly are Muslims, or not…

[This message has been edited by Spock (edited June 20, 2002).]

Yaar, I think that in a free election, there should be no personal questions asked. All they should ask is which person the choose to elect. Go to any functioning democratic country, that allows for joint electorates, and you will find nothing except a choice of one candidate or another.
Still, if I were certain that this would not be used to discriminate, then I might grudingly agree to it. But still, telling people your religious affiliation is sorta like telling complete strangers your income, or telling them anything that you feel is personal and or private. Your not comfortable with it, and most people avoid telling people such things, but if they have to, they do. Sorta the way we share our credit card numbers when ordering things over the net.
Still, there is no justifiable reason for asking people such things, and in this case I believe Ahmedis and other minorites are being singled out. I honestly think the govt WILL discriminate against Ahmedis. There is no reason to believe otherwise.. Their is no other reason to do this in a joint electorate except in order to discriminate, and single out certain unwanted groups.
And yes, ultimately my grievance is with the law which turns Ahmedis into non-muslims…
Why? because not only does it make us non-muslim it also

  1. Does not allow us to use Muslim names
  2. Do the Azan
  3. Say Assalama lakum to each other or anyone else.
  4. Recite the Kalma..A christian can do this and people will applaud, an Ahmedi can be sentanced to life in prison…
  5. Do anything that even resembles anything moslem…
    This is not really a law, but rather a vindictive outpouring of hate and prejudice. Its not based on any logic, just pure hate. This law is betrayl, its evil, vidictive, and completely against the principles upon which Pakistan was created, and the very basis of Islam. The govt policy of singling out Ahmedis during election time, is simply another extension of this hatred.
    Like Ii said before, if we want a true democracy, General Musharaf will have to decide if winning over the fundementalist Mullah mentality is worth singling out so many innocent people. Iif he wants to turn Pakistan into a foward looking democracy, he will have to stop bowing to the prssures of these fundamentalists.

[This message has been edited by Adnan Ahmed (edited June 21, 2002).]

AK

106

So asif_k? big deal... He merely wants that no personal questions should be asked whilst voting... It all bogs down to one thing... Ahmedis believe they are Muslims... Do you think they are Muslims or not? Answer this question if you are yourself a Muslim, and believe in the finality of the Prophet (PBUH) as the last messenger of Allah...

107

[quote]
Originally posted by Asif_k:
** Well No one is questioning is patriotism. What we are questioning is your this statement "I live in a nation where I can practice my religion freely and without any obstructions or fear..." .

I know you can, Can He ????

**
[/quote]

Yes he can, even though I dont think he (like all the guppies here) lives in Pakistan...

I have ahmedi friends, they are very proud Pakistanis and believe me, they dont like you Indians one bit, if that makes you feel good...

btw, no need to stray from the topic... The topic concerned Muslims living in India not Pakistan, and we have seen that the Hindus here came on and started expressing their opinions... You are quick to shift to Pakistan, cant you account on what happened in Gujrat?

108

I would also like to quote some of your posts when the riots in India started… (btw, are you in India or abroad)… You should also check out the attitude of some of your Hindu brothers in that thread too…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum25/HTML/004015.html

109

[quote]
Originally posted by Spock:
*So asif_k? big deal... He merely wants that no personal questions should be asked whilst voting... *
[/quote]

No Spock, There are many things he is not allowed to do :-
Perhaps you missed this part of his post :-

because not only does it make us non-muslim it also
1. Does not allow us to use Muslim names
2. Do the Azan
3. Say Assalama lakum to each other or anyone else.
4. Recite the Kalma..A christian can do this and people will applaud, an Ahmedi can be sentanced to life in prison...
5. Do anything that even resembles anything moslem...

[quote]
*Ahmedis believe they are Muslims... Do you think they are Muslims or not? *
[/quote]

YES, I believe what they (the Ahmedis) believe. I respect their right to practice their religion the way they want it even though I do not agree with them. Do you ??

[quote]
*I have ahmedi friends, they are very proud Pakistanis *
[/quote]

Yes I know - I also know many Pakistani Ahmadis (Remember the HAMDANI fella, whose Website add I gave you ), I am not questioning their patriotism.

AK

110

Quote:

I would also like to quote some of your posts when the riots in India started… (btw, are you in India or abroad)… You should also check out the attitude of some of your Hindu brothers in that thread too… http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum25/HTML/004015.html

quote:

No, Its shows indias backwardness - Where People still believe in monk(ey)s instead of Gods. These Ba$ta%S have ruined our country our land.

IS THERE NO GOD ? When innocents are getting killed these monkeys are enjoying the air conditions and giving inflammatory speeches.

AK

Andhra - Why is it that whenever a muslim talks of his community’s sufferings , he is asked to migrate. We, along with hindus and other communities, have built this country, fought for its indepence, why should we migrate and to where ? Why there is no law for those VHP/RSS rogues ? Why are those Ba$tard$ hindu leaders in hiding ? Why is our govt not trying them for instigating mass genocide of hindus and muslims ?
Kabir, Let’s not forget that we are educated people buddy and let’s not react like those IDIOTS. Lets work to make our people’s lives better.

AK

Andhra, Victory - When 100s of muslims are getting killed in India I dont understand how can you guys find this humorous and end your posts with a ‘LOL’ or ‘WINK’. Sorry friends we are having a serious discussion here and people are massacred at our home and I dont see any humour in it. As an Indian I am disgusted and as an Indian muslim I am scared,frustrated and hopeless.
Someone is saying that Narendra Modi is responsible for this.If he is then what the F!CK is he doing there and stilling sitting on the CM’s chair ? Kick him out, right now.

That BALDY advani is going to Gujrat - Please tell him we Indian Muslims dont need his crocodile tears. Only way justice could be done is to make all those responsible for riot and hang them untill death.

What are VHP BANDARS doing - Why are they still out. How dare they make negotiations when 100s are slaughtered.

Kick that Ba$TARD Vajpayee out - Impose F!cking emergency in the whole country. These people stink.As an Indian I am asahmed. As an Indian Muslim I AM ANGRY

AK

SADAs, What nonsense you are talking that Muslims instigated the violence ? Who started the whole March 15th thing ? Who started Kar Seva ? why are there 1000s of Kar Sevaks in Ayodhya ? Stop this BS about muslims starting this and accept that VHP Ba$Tatrd$ have started this.

Only suggestion we should and must arrive is -
KILL ALL THOSE MONKEYS OF VHP/RSS WHO CALL UPON INNOCENT HINDUS TO BUILD A RAM TEMPLE INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR A SUPREME COURT VERDICT.

Spock,
If you read the above posts of Asif, then you would be convinced that he is a Muslim and at the same time an Indian. He just does’nt speak for the safety of the Muslims, but for all the innocents and his posts are quite frank and blunt.
I doubt if anyone disagrees with him in this forum.
I do not know what point you are trying to make by posting those articles again, but I would like to clarify to you, those are the words of every True Indian. I wholly agree with Asif’s points.

111

Victory... Did I ever say he was lying or anything?? He pointed out how Ahmedis in Pakistan feel... I pointed out how Muslims in India feel, and I chose himself as an example...

112

And victory, none of the Hindus in that particular thread (andhra, sadas, devil etc) were sympathetic to the mass slaughter of Muslims... Andhra suggesting Muslims should migrate, and Sadas was blaming the Muslims for these riots...

113

[quote]
Originally posted by Spock:
*Victory... Did I ever say he was lying or anything?? He pointed out how Ahmedis in Pakistan feel... I pointed out how Muslims in India feel, and I chose himself as an example...
*
[/quote]

Spock - I pointed that because you said in pakistan you are free to practice your religion and then I asked If the same can be said about Other communities as well.

AK

114

but then again, the whole point of this thread was an opinion from the Muslims in India, though it was earlier mislead by the Hindus here...

115

As for Ahmedis, no one has a problem with them if they would stop calling themselves Muslims in Pakistan… Thats the only reason they were being opressed…

For e.g. check this thread out… If you do things like that in Pakistan, youre likely to get flamed…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum9/HTML/001054.html

116

As for Ahmedis, no one has a problem with them if they would stop calling themselves Muslims in Pakistan… Thats the only reason they were being opressed…

For e.g. check this thread out… If you do things like that in Pakistan, youre likely to get flamed…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum9/HTML/001054.html

117

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
*I have faced discrimination, because in my last company they did not promote me to the President of the company. The company was family owned and eldest son of the owner became president. *
[/quote]

thats not racial discrimmination; its nepotism

Jaan LeY Hi JaUn ViChoRay

118

Kabir,
As a Indian Muslim, I would like to ask you a few questions. From the replies you have posted you seem to be more a Pakistani at heart, but staying in India for unavoidable reasons like family, business etc. Other Indian Muslims are welcome to answer

Given the treatment to you, by Hindus in India would you consider going to Pakistan for good?

What would be your advise to Indian Muslims. If they are discriminated should they fight for their rights in India or if given a choice relocate to Pakistan where there are almost 99% Muslims.

Do you think Indian Muslims made a bad choice of staying in India after partition.

Do Indian Muslims have a soft corner for Pakistan, or these are just few instance which Hindus exaggerate like supporting Pakistan team in a India-Pakistan cricket match.

Is supporting Pakistan, telling the Hindus that they dont like India?

Do you think it is good for Muslims to raise their kids in a Islamic environment like Pakistan?

Did creation of Pakistan help Indian Muslims? Or because of that, Hindus are always suspicious. How would India would have been if there was no partition on the basis of religion?

Do Indian Muslims feel closer to Pakistani Muslims than other Indians.

Is there any future for Muslims in India. Is the situation so bad that you would suggest relocating all Hindus in Pakistan to India and all Muslims from India to Pakistan?

119

Do Indian Muslims think that Pakistan is genuinely interested in their cause. The way, PTV gives coverage to Kashmir or riots in any part of India gives an impression that Pakistan is more concerned about Indian Muslims than Sindhis, Pathans or Baluchis.

Bangladesh is a Muslim country. Why dont Indian Muslims show their solidarity with Bangladesh? Is Pakistan the only country that symbolises Indian Muslims dream?

120

This is a typical Minority majority conflict... The Minorities insist there is severe discrimination, while the majority always insists its all in their (the minorites') heads. Point is, that discrimination is defined by those who experience it. What you think is irrelevent, may not be so for the person who experiences it... Its a classic case of walk a mile in my shoes. Discrimination is an individual thing. So you cant honestly say that someone was or wasn;t discriminated against. Its like judging someone by the degree of pain this supposed discrimination causes them. How can you do that?!