A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Society Religion & Philosophy
141

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Dude go and read your previous posts and you sure accused Hazrat Ali A.S. for nauzubillah blood shed of muslims.. unless you want to say you were just talking B.S. in your posts prior to 126…

Live to the words of wisdom…lolololol… hmm talking about names… Aren’t you the one who called my post Pathetic when you were left speechless to answer your ayats… oh you poor soul.. you want to make excuses don’t you… Oh now that you are having a hard time I am a cut and paste debater… even though all I quote is hadith’s from your books… boy are they too hard to swollow… its alright keep talking and inshallah you’ll be able to digest… calling me a cut and post debater … what about your biased thread on Death of Sahabah … wasn’t that a nice cut and paste Job which HAD UNREFERENCED HISTORY CONTEXT.. read my reply to it… your thread went out of the way to make up unreferences history stories but failed to quote things from your own book about Umar doubting hadith of Prophet… oh how could they.. hezz another Ameer ul Momineen who introduced Bidah based on your own books… you need to hide it…oops sorry it slipped out of my mouth… I’ll try to watch next time… how about your first Ameer ul Momineen who made Prophet P.B.U.H angry… oh boy another slip of my mouth… oh i am sure you’ll have another lame excuses like others.. Sahih Bukari was lying… Oh I am sorry you didn’t accuse Sahih Bukhari.. instead you used your words of wisdom and came up with an excuse saying it doesn’t apply Abu Bakr because he made Prophet P.B.U.H angry after his death…lollollol wow nice words of wisdom… I am sure the wisdom comes fromm Umar who doubted Prophet’s hadith when he was sick doesn’t it buddy… Now just to defend the acts of your so called these Ameer ul Momineen who introduced bidah, made Prophet angry and killed other muslims… by using some excuses to make one believe that Nauzubillah Hazrat Ali A.S did the same…

Dude, whats your definition of believer… are they momin or muslims… I was just wondering becaues when you guys translate Mother of Believers you call it Umull Momineen and not Ummul Muslimeen… don’t you guys… A person can read Kalima and claim to be muslim… does that make him a momin also… quran have an ayat for such people…
“They swear by Allah that they are truly of you while they are not of you, but they are a people (hypocrites) who intend to divide (the Muslim nation).”
Certainly people who came against Hazrat Ali A.S. might claim to be muslims but they were hypocrites… read the hadith from your own Sahih books which I quoted earlier also…

"Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."

Sunni references:

  • Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;
  • Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;
  • Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;
  • Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128
  • Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202
  • Hilyatul Awliya’, by Abu Nu’aym, v4, p185
  • Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462

Also Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr that:

Ali (RA) said: By him who split up the seed and created something
living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a
promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a
hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.

  • Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141

This tradition of Prophet was popular to the extent that some of the
companions used to say:

“We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali.”

Sunni references:

  • Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition #1086
  • al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47
  • al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v3, p242
  • Dhakha’ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p91

Based on the light of the above hadith and the ayat of Quran now tell me what does the following ayat refers to when it talks about believers…

**“And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93) **

(Questtion 1)
Is the believer referring to muslim or a momin… If we use your logic and say as long as a muslim claim to be a believer becaues he recited a Kalema to claim to be muslim… and does a act that requires death penalty according to shariah or whatsoever… whoever gives him the punishment would he go to hell… ???(Question for you)because thats what it seems like you are implying… all it takes is to recite a kalema to be a muslim… but it takes alot more to be momin.

You can come up with lame excuses to accuse Hazrat Ali A.S just to defend your Ameer ul Momineen that introduced Bidah and made Propeht angry.. but I am sorry your argument don’t make sense… and are not convincing… Since Allah Made Prophet P.B.U.H. give a hadith saying that a person who hate Hazrat Ali A.S is a hypocrite… is enough for me to believe that a person who came against the sword of Allah SWT (which Allah awarded to Hazrat Ali A.S) was a hypocrite

Also I asked you one question, can you please answer that also,
(Question 2)
What does Umar mean by calling Taraweeh a bidah based on the hadith from Sahih Bukari… Did he introduced a bidah or your companion wants to mislead other by calling the teaching of Prophet P.B.U.H. a bidah..???

(Question 3)
Based on the hadith you quoted above who are these people who take the hatredness of Hazrat Ali A.S. so far that they go away from rightfulness … can you shed your light on it.. I mean the people who go so far by accusing Allah SWT of awarding a sword to someone who killed his believers… or nauzubillah accuse Hazrat Ali A.S for nauzubillah killing believers when Prophet P.B.U.H. went as far as saying that "Loving Ali is a sign of belief…and nauzubillah these people claim that Hazrat Ali A.S. killed the believers…(Makes me wonder ! are you doubting Allah to have his Prophet say something like that when you nauzubillah claim him to kill believers)… if its not you who are these…???
May Allah protect the users from any errors within… Ameen

142

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Question 4.
If someone recites a Kalema and becomes a muslim for personal interests Is he also considered a believer and does the ayats you quoted above apply him also.

Question 5.
*You yourself claims that some of the Sunni Imams like Hanafi and Maliki were the students of Shia Imams.... it sure shows the knowledge shia Imams possessed.... not to mention the teaching of none Imam is different from other.. unlike sunni... who rather chose to get knowledge from the student than the teacher itself... no wonder there are differences in four Imams... but anywayzz Ok sunni so called Imams had to bow to shia Imams to seek knowledge.. can you tell me whee does te knowledge for shia Imams came from????????? hmm aren't you the one who doubt them being ifallable.... *

Its amazing since you couldn't defend that your so called Ameer ul Momineen who led the bloodshed of so many muslimss just to justify him you want to accuse the personality for whom Prophet P.B.U.H. said his love is the sign of belief and hatredness was the sigh of hypocrite.... lol.. it shows your struggle you can't defend your messed up believes... try to come up with lame excuses possbile by trying mud sling the other...lol... wow what a wisdom....

Anywayz I'll be waiting for the answers... if you care to answer them one by one rather than ignoring them...

143

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

In one of the post on Hadith on Imam Hazrat Ali A.S. which was recently deleted… Kaleem posted that Quran is enough and thats why he don’t feel a need to books of knowledge like Najul Balagah… I am not doubting the authenticity of Quran… for sure its the best of the best book… and the final message of God… Nor do I want to offend or degrade anyone but here are some questions I have.

**1. If quran is the only source thats enough.. why do people send kids to school… I mean didn’t Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. said…seek knowledge even if you have to go to China for it.

Well dear brother Quran does not stop us to learn, it provoke us to seek knowledge. And do you know that modern science is now following the Quran. http://www.drzakirnaik.com
Visit this website and search for scientific questions, you can use keywords like Iron, Salt, Water, Animals, Plants etc.
**
**2. If quran is enough … where does it say in Quran how to pray, do wazoo…or Arkan-e- Hajj…

Well Quran told them all, like do Ruko like Rakayeen, for Wazoo it says Wash your face, hands and wrists, do Masa and wash your feet once before every prayer.
**
**3. I don’t know if its in there..but can you show me where is the nikkah sigah in quran

You can search in the given link Click here
Key Words are “Wedding”**
4. I have heard a famous hadith from the sunni brother saying that Prophet said he is leaving behind two things .. Quran and sunnah… but PERSONALLY I don’t get it either because of the following ayat in Quran…
**“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)

Its means that after Mohammed (PBUH) no other prophet will come with new Shariya. As you know Jesus have to come back, but he will follow the Shariya of Mohammed. He will not give his own shariya. As almigthy allah said [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].In Surah AL-ANAAM chapter number 6 verse number 85
"And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: "

**[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]**In Surah MARYAM chapter number 19 verse number 34
"Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. "

**[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Surah ASH-SHURA chapter number 42 verse number 13
"The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). "
How in a perfect religon Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. leave Quran..which no doublt is the best source of knowledge but he didn’t mention what is a good book to follow sunnah… why would he leave that vague… I mean gupshup is a perfect example where people pick and choose hadith… I have noticed people like Armughal, gupguppy.. I mentioned them hadith from his own books but he ruled it out.. Why would in a perfect religon as islam Prophet Mohammad leave a good source of knowledge like Quran but a vague source for Sunnah…

**5. Shia on the other hand have a hadith **

The Messenger of Allah [s] declared:“It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise).”

http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/nontl/Versions.htm
http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/nontl/index.htm
http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

And history is a witness Imam has always been a good source of knowledge.. a good example can be seen in Najul Balagah
http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm
Imam Jaffar -e- Sadiq is a very good example of knowledge of his time… They were always there when needed to defend islam, a good example can be seen Hazrat Ali AS was awarded sword by Allah SWT… Sacrifices of Imam Hussain A.S. are a good a example.

Well I dont accept this Hadith because Making Sects is Prohibited in Islam. And I will show you that Shiaism is also a fake sect.

Probably thats the reason eventhough shias have 12 Imams, and still their teachings are the same…whereas sunnis have four imam not to mention all of them came after Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and there are still differences in different issues

Question 4.
**If someone recites a Kalema and becomes a muslim for personal interests Is he also considered a believer and does the ayats you quoted above apply him also.

Well if a person recited a Kalema, you cant figure him/her as a non muslim.
**
Question 5.
**You yourself claims that some of the Sunni Imams like Hanafi and Maliki were the students of Shia Imams… it sure shows the knowledge shia Imams possessed… not to mention the teaching of none Imam is different from other.. unlike sunni… who rather chose to get knowledge from the student than the teacher itself… no wonder there are differences in four Imams… but anywayzz Ok sunni so called Imams had to bow to shia Imams to seek knowledge.. can you tell me whee does te knowledge for shia Imams came from??? hmm aren’t you the one who doubt them being ifallable… **

Well This is another topic. I will reply it later.
****

I am leaving - no kidding !
144

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

I really don't care for your questions... because you people copy paste too much from that al-unislam site

but I just want to make something clear to you... that the hadith you are talking about is fabricated

145

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

.

Dear Brother these are not my questions, I only replied them. I hope you understand.

Well I am a Veteran Member of wetcanvas.com and I know how to reply and post new threads.

146

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Correction

**

Well dear brother Quran does not stop us to learn, it provoke us to seek knowledge. And do you know that modern science is now following the Quran. http://www.drzakirnaik.com
Visit this website and search for scientific questions, you can use keywords like Iron, Salt, Water, Animals, Plants etc.
**
**

Well Quran told them all, like do Ruko like Rakayeen, for Wazoo it says Wash your face, hands and wrists, do Masa and wash your feet once before every prayer.
**
**

You can search in the given link [Click here](http://www.drzakirnaik.com/pages/quranonline/index.php)
Key Words are "Wedding"**

**

Its means that after Mohammed (PBUH) no other prophet will come with new Shariya. As you know Jesus have to come back, but he will follow the Shariya of Mohammed. He will not give his own shariya. As almigthy allah said [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].In Surah AL-ANAAM chapter number 6 verse number 85
"And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: "

**[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]**In Surah MARYAM chapter number 19 verse number 34

"Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. "

**[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]**In Surah ASH-SHURA chapter number 42 verse number 13

"The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). "**

Well I dont accept this Hadith because Making Sects is Prohibited in Islam. And I will show you that Shiaism is also a fake sect.

**

Well if a person recited a Kalema, you cant figure him/her as a non muslim.
**   

Well This is another topic. I will reply it later.
147

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Your response to following hadith was

The Messenger of Allah [s] declared: “It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise).”

http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/nontl/Versions.htm
http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/nontl/index.htm
http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

And history is a witness Imam has always been a good source of knowledge.. a good example can be seen in Najul Balagah
http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm
Imam Jaffar -e- Sadiq is a very good example of knowledge of his time… They were always there when needed to defend islam, a good example can be seen Hazrat Ali AS was awarded sword by Allah SWT… Sacrifices of Imam Hussain A.S. are a good a example.

Shows how lost you are… May be Prophet P.B.U.H. told that so ummah don’t split after him into different sects… he wasn’t introducing sects he was preventing the sects… Its clear people who followed sunnah split into different sects… because there are so many sources of sunnah… some say this is authentic and someone say no thats dhaef and our is authentic.. you missed the whole point of the thread…

Quran is a perfect religon.. if Prophet P.B.U.H. had left sunnah to follow he would have also said what the correct source of sunnah.. else people pick and choose .. declare dhaeef… thats why Prophet said

Whoever I am the leader, Ali is his leader.
www.al-islam.org/ghadir

Also read the website to learn about the exact context when the ayat of perfection was revealed…

For all the claims you mentioned later.. can you please show the ayat… exactly the order and how to pray namaaz… I would rather read the ayats from you than just read whatever you have to say.. the whole namaz its order.. everything… also the ayat on nikkah…

148

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Well you missed the whole purpose… There were also hypocrites during the time of Prophet P.B.U.H…
“They swear by Allah that they are truly of you while they are not of you, but they are a people (hypocrites) who intend to divide (the Muslim nation).”
and Prophet P.B.U.H. gave the following hadith based on sunni books to differentiate a believer from hypocrites
Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."

Sunni references:

  • Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;
  • Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;
  • Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;
  • Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128
  • Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202
  • Hilyatul Awliya’, by Abu Nu’aym, v4, p185
  • Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462

Also Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr that:

Ali (RA) said: By him who split up the seed and created something
living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a
promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a
hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.

  • Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141

This tradition of Prophet was popular to the extent that some of the
companions used to say:

“We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali.”

Sunni references:

  • Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition #1086
  • al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47
  • al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v3, p242
  • Dhakha’ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p91

Eventhough hadith of Prophet.. and the fact that Hazrat Ali A.S had the sword of Allah SWT … shows that hatredness against Hazrat Ali A.S makes one hyproctie… but Ibn Sadique wants to carry on an argument that even though Allah SWT awarded Hazrat Ali A.S by a sword and made Prophet P.B.U.H. give a hadith that hatredness for hiim makes on hypocrite… the same sword was used to kill nauzubillah believers…even though based on his Sahih books those people were hypocrites… but oh well.. It seems he think he is smarter than Prophet P.B.U.H and Allah SWT to know that they were believers.. and nauzubillah the sword of his Allah SWT was used to kill the believers… nauzubillah its so pathetic… Astagfiurllah.. I can’t even say it.. May Allah show him the right path Ameen…

Freedom of Expression
149

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Texan in your post # 66 you were annoyed that we, the Sunnis, address Hz Aisha (ra) (May Allah (swt) be pleased with her) and believe her to be Umm Ul Momimeen. And you thought that our beliefs are messed up!

Texan Dude Post # 66

You were told that we take her to Umm Ul Momimeen [Mother of the Believers] because the Quran says so.

Now again in your post # 141 quoted below:

Yet again your hatred for the Prophet (saw)’s wife has blinded you and you are challenging the Quran. And you are calling Hz. Aisha (ra) a Hypocrite? You lost your mind or what? Or is it that your extreme love of Hz. Ali (ra) has made you ‘lose your marbles’

I am giving you the relevant verse of the Quran and its transliteration so that you can comprehend **that Hz. Aisha (ra) is the mother of the Believers and you have no say in it. **

If you deny it then you are challenging the Quran in other words Allah (swt) Himself. And you should know what it implies!

You do need a good guidance of a capable Aalim – Trust me.

*The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and **his wives ** are their mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah. Than (the Brotherhood of) Believers and Muhajirs: nevertheless do ye what is just to your closest friends: such is the writing in the Decree (of Allah). * 33:6

Alnnabiyyu awla bialmumineena* min anfusihim waazwajuhu ommahatuhum waoloo alarhami baAAduhum awla bibaAAdin fee kitabi Allahi mina almumineena waalmuhajireena illa an tafAAaloo ila awliyaikum maAAroofan kana thalika fee alkitabi mastooran * 33:6 Transliteration

I had asked you earlier in my very recent posts:

I just wish you do as you said the following:

That thread was on Prophet (saw)'s Funeral and the Sahabah (raa) and I am really glad that you liked it and read it thoroughly :slight_smile: I did say it was a cut & paste job. I just wanted to neutralize false propaganda against the Companions (raa) that they did not attend the Prophet (saw)'s funeral.

You must be aware that there some individuals around here who would not spare a moment to defame the Sahabah (raa). We don’t want that, do we? :slight_smile:

I hope these verses from the Quran will be of help.

*Alif Lam Mim. 2:1
This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil). 2:2
Those who *believe ** in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them. 2:3
And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter. 2:4
These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful. 2:5

*Successful indeed are the *believers, ** 23:1
Who are humble in their prayers, 23:2
And who keep aloof from what is vain, 23:3
And who are givers of poor-rate, 23:4
And who guard their private parts, 23:5
Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable, 23:6
But whoever seeks to go beyond that, these are they that exceed the limits; 23:7
And those who are keepers of their trusts and their covenant, 23:8
And those who keep a guard on their prayers; 23:9
These are they who are the heirs, 23:10
Who shall inherit the Paradise; they shall abide therein. 23:11

Now you have run a bit wild and opened a lot of new and old issues again and we have yet to settle the issue on hand.

Believe me I am not budging an inch till we settle it.

I am quoting myself from my post #132

I want you to answer this question and keep my post #138 in mind link given below] before we move forward. I really don’t want to play around just accumulating posts. Better things to do in life than go around in circles.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=3325464&postcount=138

Answer the question and we move on, otherwise it’s no use just leaving matters unsettled and hopping around here and there aimlessly.

150

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

**

**Oh now that someone is having hard time defending his own believes you had to twist the argument .. I was talking about Mawiya in my last post… on him being Ameer ul Momineen and you brought up Ayesha… and not a single place did you mention about him lolol… its alright we all know you have a hard time defending your own believes so you need excuses … HARD TO DEFEND MAWIYA AIN’T IT BUDDY… Not to mention in your struggle you have been quoting parts of hadith and sermons to full fill your interest… and ignore the rest.. OH OFCOURSE YOU HAVE TO .. HOW ELSE CAN YOU FULL FILL YOUR INTEREST… A simple example right now.. we were debating on Mawiya and you brought an issue with Ayesha.. even though I already answered what .. oh but Ibn Sadique can’t defend Mawiya.. the Ameer ul Momineen who killed believers so he had to use an excuse and bring up something that have been resolved before.. How pathetic. dude the response to your post 66 was answered in my post 72… aww.. Nice try buddy.. **

By the way how many time do you plan to go in circles … I can see you are having hard time but come on… Grow Up Buddy.. you gotta learn to accept the truth…

Dude we have talked about it sevaral time … I have used the ayat of Quran to show you that Ayesha was wrong when she led the blood shed of several muslims… she disobeyed Quran and the ayat I quoted earlier… and not to mention the hadith of hypocrites.. I didn’t quoted from any where else than your Sahih books blame them for it.. Are you going to saying the following for the compiler of Sahih books…

Yet again your hatred for the Prophet (saw)’s wife has blinded your Sahih books and you are challenging the Quran. And you are calling Hz. Aisha (ra) a Hypocrite? You lost your mind or what? Or is it that your extreme love of Hz. Ali (ra) has made you ‘lose your marbles’
[/quote]
Boy if thats the case.. it makes you more dumber to follow the books, if you carry such views about their compiler…

Hmm lol… lol..lol.. Ibn Sadique.. you want to see another place where you made a real fool outta yourself… in your struggle digesting the truth…

Read what you said earlier…

What about your posts before 126… were you fooling around there.. read your post 50 and see for yourself what you said…

Boy you are the one who first says it and then go on a state of denial.. by the way that was a dumb analogy… its like saying something like an hour ago and after an hour ask tell me if I said anything in last 10 minutes..even though You didn’t accept you were wrong on what you said an hour ago.. OH BOY ITS ALRIGHT… WE KNOW YOUR STRUGGLE… Ewww… needs excuses.. by way a bit of advice here buddy.. next time when you try to look for excuses.. please try to come up with something that makes sense.. .lol..lol..else it shows your ignorance…lol.lol…

By the way here is a question for you…
In the light of what I said in my previous post
You can come up with lame excuses to accuse Hazrat Ali A.S just to defend your Ameer ul Momineen that introduced Bidah and made Propeht angry.. but I am sorry your argument don’t make sense… and are not convincing… Since Allah Made Prophet P.B.U.H. give a hadith saying that a person who hate Hazrat Ali A.S is a hypocrite… is enough for me to believe that a person who came against the sword of Allah SWT (which Allah awarded to Hazrat Ali A.S) was a hypocrite
**Are you claiming that Allah SWT awarded his sword to someone who nauzubillah used it to kill believers… and on top of it Allah made Prophet P.B.U.H. give an hadith where his love and hatredness was used to distinguish between believers and hypocrite??? Are you… ??? **

[Quote = Ibn Sadique]

That thread was on Prophet (saw)'s Funeral and the Sahabah (raa) and I am really glad that you liked it and read it thoroughly :slight_smile: I did say it was a cut & paste job. I just wanted to neutralize false propaganda against the Companions (raa) that they did not attend the Prophet (saw)'s funeral.
[/quote]
lol lol lol… There you go… using your analogy… pick and choose parts of stuff to full fill your interests.. boy you swet on these things too much man.. coming up with excuses… in your struggle.. oh you poor soul… talking about me liking your so called UNREFERNCED CUT PASTE JOB

[Quote = Ibn Sadique]

Let me requote incase you missed the whole thing..
Live to the words of wisdom…lolololol… hmm talking about names… Aren’t you the one who called my post Pathetic when you were left speechless to answer your ayats… oh you poor soul.. you want to make excuses don’t you… Oh now that you are having a hard time I am a cut and paste debater… even though all I quote is hadith’s from your books… boy are they too hard to swollow… its alright keep talking and inshallah you’ll be able to digest… calling me a cut and post debater … what about your biased thread on Death of Sahabah … wasn’t that a nice cut and paste Job which HAD **UNREFERENCED HISTORY CONTEXT.. read my reply to it… your thread went out of the way to make up unreferences history stories but failed to quote things from your own book about Umar doubting hadith of Prophet… oh how could they.. hezz another Ameer ul Momineen who introduced Bidah based on your own books… you need to hide it…oops sorry it slipped out of my mouth… I’ll try to watch next time… how about your first Ameer ul Momineen who made Prophet P.B.U.H angry… oh boy another slip of my mouth… oh i am sure you’ll have another lame excuses like others.. Sahih Bukari was lying… Oh I am sorry you didn’t accuse Sahih Bukhari.. instead you used your words of wisdom and came up with an excuse saying it doesn’t apply Abu Bakr because he made Prophet P.B.U.H angry after his death…lollollol wow nice words of wisdom… I am sure the wisdom comes fromm Umar who doubted Prophet’s hadith when he was sick doesn’t it buddy… Now just to defend the acts of your so called these Ameer ul Momineen who introduced bidah, made Prophet angry and killed other muslims… by using some excuses to make one believe that Nauzubillah Hazrat Ali A.S did the same…
[/quote]
**

Hmm next time if you want to make judement on me please quote the whole things not the parts of it… Oh no what am I saying.. it had alot of truth.. which is hard for you to swollow… hmm what should an ignorant mind like you do.. to defend an unreferenced article not to mention one that skipped some hadiths based on your Sahih books… that shows how your so called second Ameer ul Momineen… doubted Prophet hadith…oops what I said it again.. I am sorry buddy no offence please… well i guess thats be best your ignorant mind could do.. pick and choose stuff to change the whole meaning of text BTW the fact that you havent replied on that thread when I showed the truth on your so called second Ameer ul Momineen in the light of your Sahih books I am guessing you are having a hard time coming for excuses yet???

Also, I am waiting on the answer to the qeustion I have asked earlier.

What does Umar mean by calling Taraweeh a bidah based on the hadith from Sahih Bukari… Did he introduced a bidah or your companion wants to mislead other by calling the teaching of Prophet P.B.U.H. a bidah..???

Infact seems like you haven’t answered alot of the questions I asked you too.. hmm let me guess still having hard time coming up with excuses with them.. but if you will let me ask the questions below…
**And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him." (Quran 4:93) **

(Questtion 1)
Is the believer referring to muslim or a momin… If we use your logic and say as long as a muslim claim to be a believer becaues he recited a Kalema to claim to be muslim… and does a act that requires death penalty according to shariah or whatsoever… whoever gives him the punishment would he go to hell… ???(Question for you)because thats what it seems like you are implying… all it takes is to recite a kalema to be a muslim… but it takes alot more to be momin.

You can come up with lame excuses to accuse Hazrat Ali A.S just to defend your Ameer ul Momineen that introduced Bidah and made Propeht angry.. but I am sorry your argument don’t make sense… and are not convincing… Since Allah Made Prophet P.B.U.H. give a hadith saying that a person who hate Hazrat Ali A.S is a hypocrite… is enough for me to believe that a person who came against the sword of Allah SWT (which Allah awarded to Hazrat Ali A.S) was a hypocrite

Also I asked you one question, can you please answer that also,
(Question 2)
What does Umar mean by calling Taraweeh a bidah based on the hadith from Sahih Bukari… Did he introduced a bidah or your companion wants to mislead other by calling the teaching of Prophet P.B.U.H. a bidah..???

(Question 3)
Based on the hadith you quoted above who are these people who take the hatredness of Hazrat Ali A.S. so far that they go away from rightfulness … can you shed your light on it.. I mean the people who go so far by accusing Allah SWT of awarding a sword to someone who killed his believers… or nauzubillah accuse Hazrat Ali A.S for nauzubillah killing believers when Prophet P.B.U.H. went as far as saying that "Loving Ali is a sign of belief…and nauzubillah these people claim that Hazrat Ali A.S. killed the believers…(Makes me wonder ! are you doubting Allah to have his Prophet say something like that when you nauzubillah claim him to kill believers)… if its not you who are these…???

Question 4.
If someone recites a Kalema and becomes a muslim for personal interests Is he also considered a believer and does the ayats you quoted above apply him also.

Question 5.
**You yourself claims that some of the Sunni Imams like Hanafi and Maliki were the students of Shia Imams… it sure shows the knowledge shia Imams possessed… not to mention the teaching of none Imam is different from other.. unlike sunni… who rather chose to get knowledge from the student than the teacher itself… no wonder there are differences in four Imams… but anywayzz Ok sunni so called Imams had to bow to shia Imams to seek knowledge.. can you tell me whee does te knowledge for shia Imams came from??? hmm aren’t you the one who doubt them being ifallable… **

Its amazing since you couldn’t defend that your so called Ameer ul Momineen who led the bloodshed of so many muslimss just to justify him you want to accuse the personality for whom Prophet P.B.U.H. said his love is the sign of belief and hatredness was the sigh of hypocrite… lol.. it shows your struggle you can’t defend your messed up believes… try to come up with lame excuses possbile by trying mud sling the other…lol… wow what a wisdom…

**Also in regards to Mawiya… I want to read the whole letter … as shown above and from my previous experiences you are known to pick and choose parts of a context to meet your interest and in regards to Jamal the book you are quoting from…**Sunun Bayhiqi there isn’t any literature out there on it.. the only thing I get by searching on google is a post which has same kind of stuff you have chosen.. I really doubt the authenticity of the book… as i have never heard about it.. had it been a authentic book I am sure there must be alot of literature out there… it seems like its one of those games … like before you called a book near and dear shia books and the only prove you had about the book was some website referring to it.. if its authentic shia books I am sure there must be alot of references to the book … than just one sunni forum website referring it.. I can come up with 100 such references if you want me too.. but I don’t want to mislead others…

May Allah protect readers from any errors within.[/size]

151

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

[quote]
Shows how lost you are... May be Prophet P.B.U.H. told that so ummah don't split after him into different sects.... he wasn't introducing sects he was preventing the sects... Its clear people who followed sunnah split into different sects... because there are so many sources of sunnah... some say this is authentic and someone say no thats dhaef and our is authentic.. you missed the whole point of the thread.....
[/quote]

This is the answer.

Question:

When all the Muslim follow one and the same Qur’an then why are there so many sects and different schools of thoughts among Muslims?

Answer:

1. Muslims Should be United

         It is a fact that Muslims today, are divided amongst themselves. The tragedy is that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. Islam believes in fostering unity amongst its followers.

The Glorious Qur’an says: "And hold fast, All together, by the rope Which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;" [Al-Qur’an 3:103]

Which is the rope of Allah that is being referred to in this verse? It is the Glorious Qur’an. The Glorious Qur’an is the rope of Allah which all Muslims should hold fast together. There is double emphasis in this verse. Besides saying ‘hold fast all together’ it also says, ‘be not divided’.

Qur’an further says,

*"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger" [Al-Qur’an 4:59]
*
All the Muslim should follow the Qur’an and authentic Ahadith and be not divided among themselves.

2. It is Prohibited to make sects and divisions in Islam

The Glorious Qur’an says: "As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, thou hast No part in them in the least Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end Tell them the truth Of all that they did." [Al-Qur’an 6:159]

In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide their religion and break it up into sects.

But when one asks a Muslim, "who are you?", the common answer is either ‘I am a Sunni, or ‘I am a Shia’. Some call themselves Hanafi, or Shafi or Maliki or Humbali. Some say ‘I am a Deobandi’, while some others say ‘I am a Barelvi’.

**
3. Our Prophet was a Muslim**

One may ask such Muslims, "Who was our beloved prophet (pbuh)? Was he a Hanafi or a Shafi, or a Humbali or a Maliki?" No! He was a Muslim, like all the other prophets and messengers of Allah before him.

It is mentioned in chapter 3 verse 52 of Al-Qur’an that Jesus (pbuh) was a Muslim.

Further, in chapter 3 verse 67, Al-Qur’an says that Ibrahim (pbuh) was not a Jew or a Christian but was a Muslim.

**
4. Qur’an says call yourselves Muslim
**
a. If anyone poses a Muslim the question who are you, he should say "I am a MUSLIM, not a Hanafi or a Shafi". Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verse 33 says

**"Who is better in speech Than one who calls (men) To Allah, works righteousness, And says, ‘I am of those Who bow in Islam (Muslim)?’

[Al-Qur’an 41:33]**

The Qur’an says "Say I am of those who bow in Islam". In other words, say, "I am a Muslim".

*b. The Prophet (pbuh) dictated letters to non-Muslim kings and rulers inviting them to accept Islam. In these letters he mentioned the verse of the Qur’an from Surah Ali Imran chapter 3 verse 64:
*

*Say ye: "Bear witness That we (at least) Are Muslims (bowing To Allah’s Will)." [Al-Qur’an 3:64]
*

5. Respect all the Great Scholars of Islam

We must respect all the great scholars of Islam, including the four Imaams, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Humbal and Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with them all). They were great scholars and may Allah reward them for their research and hardwork. One can have no objection if someone agrees with the views and research of Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi, etc. But when posed a question, ‘who are you?’, the reply should only be ‘I am a Muslim’.

6. Some may argue by quoting the hadith of our beloved Prophet from Sunan Abu Dawood Hadith No. 4579. In this hadith the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, "My community will be split up into seventy-three sects."

This hadith reports that the prophet predicted the emergence of seventy-three sects. He did not say that Muslims should be active in dividing themselves into sects. The Glorious Qur’an commands us not to create sects. Those who follow the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith, and do not create sects are the people who are on the true path.

According to Tirmidhi Hadith No. 171, the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, "My Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects, and all of them will be in Hell fire except one sect." The companions asked Allah’s messenger which group that would be. Where upon he replied, "It is the one to which I and my companions belong."

The Glorious Qur’an mentions in several verses, "Obey Allah and obey His Messenger". A true Muslim should only follow the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith. He can agree with the views of any scholar as long as they conform to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith. If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be.

If only all Muslims read the Qur’an with understanding and adhere to Sahih Hadith, Inshallah most of these differences would be solved and we could be one united Muslim Ummah

and this is more, search in the Quran about sects.....

1.In Surah AL-ANAAM chapter number 6 verse number 159
"As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did. "

2.In Surah HUD chapter number 11 verse number 17
"Can they be (like) those who accept a Clear (Sign) from their Lord, and whom a witness from Himself doth teach, as did the Book of Moses before it,- a guide and a mercy? They believe therein; but those of the Sects that reject it,- the Fire will be their promised meeting-place. Be not then in doubt thereon: for it is the truth from thy Lord: yet many among men do not believe! "

3.In Surah AL-HIJR chapter number 15 verse number 10
"We did send messengers before thee amongst the religious sects of old: "
**
4.In Surah MARYAM chapter number 19 verse number 37**
"But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day! "

5.In Surah AL-MUMENOON chapter number 23 verse number 53
"But people have cut off their affair (of unity), between them, into sects: each party rejoices in that which is with itself. "

6.In Surah AR-ROOM chapter number 30 verse number 32
"Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself! "

7.In Surah AZ-ZUKHRUF chapter number 43 verse number 65
"But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement: then woe to the wrong-doers, from the Penalty of a Grievous Day! "

Dedicate a song for the person above
152

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Ibn Sadique, I don't want mudsling any personality or anything or give any judgements... but since you brought it up I had a question just for my knowledge......along with the other 5 questions I have asked you in my last post (post 150 of the thread).

Does the verse below apply to the wives of all Prophet or is it limited to Prophet P.B.U.H. himself:
The Prophet is closer to the **Believers* than their own selves, and his wives **are **their mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah. Than (the Brotherhood of) Believers and Muhajirs: nevertheless do ye what is just to your closest friends: such is the writing in the Decree (of Allah). *33:6

If it applies to all the Prophets, is the wive of Prophet Looth (excuse me if I spelled it wrong) included in it... and if she is did she disobey the commandment of Allah SWT... and if she did ... was she punished for the act.... and if she did... Here is another question for you...?

Did Hazrat Ayesha disobeyed the following verses of Quran when she came against Ameer ul Momineen who was awarded Zulfiqar(sword) by Allah SWT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan Dude
If quran calls the wives of Prophet's as Umul Momineen I will respect it but the excuses you came up with .. and the hadith's you quoted by Ayesha herself.. you can't use to ignore the fact that she disobyed the orders of Quran leading bloodshed of several muslims.... incase you have missed it let me quote what I said earlier.

O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech.[33"32]

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.[32:33]

The first command in this verse "stay in your houses" was violated by A-isha when she went to Iraq to organise a mischievous campaign against Ali about whom the Holy Prophet said: "O Ali, you are to me as Harun was to Musa. You are my brother in this world and the hereafter. Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and me are from one and the same light."
[size=2]Quran clearly asks the wives of Prophet to stay at her house..and she disobeyed it to come to war against Hazrat Ali A.S. Now tell me who was righteous and who wasn't.

and if she did .... does the following punishment of quran can apply on her too....

"And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him." (Quran 4:93)

Also where do you put her in the light of the following hadith.....
Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."

Sunni references:
- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;
- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;
- Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128
- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202
- Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p185
- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462

Also Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr that:

Ali (RA) said: By him who split up the seed and created something
living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a
promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a
hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.

  • Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141

This tradition of Prophet was popular to the extent that some of the
companions used to say:

"We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali."

Sunni references:
- Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition #1086
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47
- al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v3, p242
- Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p91

I would appreciate if you answer the following questions along with the 5 questions I asked in post 150 of last page... and if you don't have anything tos ay don't just pick and choose part of sentences to full fill your interest .. I am really not here to play games.......

May Allah protect readers from any errors within and help us follow the right path.[/size]

153

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

[QUOTE]
Ibn Sadique, I don't want mudsling any personality or anything or give any judgements... but since you brought it up I had a question just for my knowledge......along with the other 5 questions I have asked you in my last post (post 150 of the thread).
[/QUOTE]

Texan_Dude - That's a good spirit and a very decent policy. I am sorry that I have not replied to you as yet - really up to my neck with work. I have been through your posts and insha' Allah will answer all the questions raised by you and that will be sometime next week. Sorry for the delay.

[QUOTE]
Does the verse below apply to the wives of all Prophet or is it limited to Prophet P.B.U.H. himself:

The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah. Than (the Brotherhood of) Believers and Muhajirs: nevertheless do ye what is just to your closest friends: such is the writing in the Decree (of Allah). 33:6

If it applies to all the Prophets, is the wive of Prophet Looth (excuse me if I spelled it wrong) included in it... and if she is did she disobey the commandment of Allah SWT... and if she did ... was she punished for the act.... and if she did... Here is another question for you...?
[/QUOTE]

Texan This is really a very simple question and a very simple answer for it.

The ayah starts with "The Prophet" and it is specific to the Prophet Muhammad (saw), if it had been applicable to all the Prophets (asa) then it would begin as “The Prophets are”, do you agree?

So the case of Hz. Lut (as) does not apply here with any stretch of imagination.

Please refer to the following ayah:

Bad women .are for bad men and bad men are for bad women. **Good women are for good men and good men are for good women * * 24:26 [Translation Shakir]

Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and **women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: * these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable. * 24:26 [Translation Yusufali]

Do you think that or dear Prophet (saw) will be given someone who is impure? Imagine that! Don't you think our dear Prophet (saw) deserves some one pure?

[QUOTE]
May Allah protect readers from any errors within and help us follow the right path.
[/QUOTE]
Ameen to that

154

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

if the ayat you quoted applies for the context you just described… how come Prophet lut ended up getting married to an impure woman or Prophet Noah… or the wife of Firoun…she was pious wasn’t she… how did she end up with Firoun… and how does it explan Ayesha disobeying quran.. an act that caused several muslims their lives… aren’t there ayats on the two wives of Prophets where quran talks about better woman.. I think I remember reading something on the forum awhile back…don’t take my word for it.. let me read the ayat of quran and i’ll get back on that…

Holy Prophet P.B.U.H gave the following hadith…
Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."… how can you than accuse nauzubillah his wife to be mistaken… if the love for a person is a sign of belief.. i am sure you can tell how pure his personality must be???
May Allah protect the users from any errors within and help us all follow right path..Ameen

First person to answer this post wins.
155

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

*Texan Dude * - It is a fact that since the day you were in your nappies you have been bottle fed that Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar, Hz. Aisha and all the Companions [May Allah (swt be pleased with them all] are Five-star hypocrites and enemies of Ahlul Bayt [May Allah (swt be pleased with them all].

So this mental conditioning is the major reason for you not accepting anything good about them.

I have been quoting the Ayahs of Quran which clearly shows without any ambiguity of Allah (swt)'s pleasure with the Sahabah of the Prophet (saw), yet somehow you are not sure if they really believed in their hearts.

I hope the following ayah doesn’t apply to you.

Then the Messenger will say:: O my Lord! Lo! Mine own folk make this Qur'an of no account. 25:30

I have quoted narrations of your ‘infallible imams’ from your own books praising Hz. Abu Bakr and Hz. Umar [May Allah (swt be pleased with them both]; yet you have disowned their sayings on the grounds that it can’t be true. Yet these were words of your imams quoted from your books.

You kept on harping about Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) earning Hz.Fatimah (ra)’s wrath; yet rejected off-hand when I quoted narrations of your own infallible imam showing that Hz. Ali (ra) too earned Hz. Fatimah’s (ra) wrath.

[QUOTE]
if the ayat you quoted applies for the context you just described.... how come Prophet lut ended up getting married to an impure woman or Prophet Noah... or the wife of Firoun...she was pious wasn't she... how did she end up with Firoun..... and how does it explan Ayesha disobeying quran.. an act that caused several muslims their lives...... aren't there ayats on the two wives of Prophets where quran talks about better woman.. I think I remember reading something on the forum awhile back......don't take my word for it.. let me read the ayat of quran and i'll get back on that.....
[/QUOTE]

Texan Dude – Try to put your belief and Trust in Quran even if it goes against what you believe!

Quran is the Book of Ummah of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and not the Ummah of Prophet Lut (as)! We don’t apply the commands of the Quran in reverse order to the Ummahs of the days gone by. Quran does narrate the facts of Ummahs of bygone days but its injunctions and commands are for the Ummah of Muhammad (saw). I hope that you will agree with that.

For time being take it for granted that our dear Prophet (saw) was given ‘pure ones’ as wives even if it is hard for you to swallow. And that the following ayah fits him well despite your *misplaced * misgivings.

Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure *and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: * these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable. ** 24:26

If you still imply that Hz. Aisha (ra) was impure than surely by your reckoning her husband has to be impure too! You see the logic.

Insha’Allah Ta’alaa, in weeks time I shall address the actions of Hz. Aisha (ra). She did not go against the Quran; bear in mind in that she knew Quran better than Moulanas, Ayatullahs you and me, all combined.

And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying. 33:33

By the way, do the highlighted parts of the above ayah apply to the female members of Ahlul Bayt (raa) of your reckoning? What about those who left their homes to accompany Hz. Hussein (ra) to Karbala?

Did they too leave their homes against the command of the Quran?

Let’s not be selective in imposing ayahs of Quran.

[QUOTE]
Holy Prophet P.B.U.H gave the following hadith.....
*Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."... * how can you than accuse nauzubillah his wife to be mistaken...... if the love for a person is a sign of belief.. i am sure you can tell how pure his personality must be??????
[/QUOTE]

*Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy."... *

From the same sources that you taken the above [and we take the above narration to be 100% true], we have the following too and many more:

Anas (ra) reported that Rasool ul Allah (saaw) said: “Loving al-Ansar is a sign of Imaan. Hating al-Ansar is a sign of Nifaaq.” ** [Reported by Muslim and an-Nisaa’i] It had been quoted by **GupGuppy much earlier.

"Jibril came to me, took me by the hand, and showed me the gate through which my Community shall enter Paradise." Abu Bakr said: "Would that I were with you to see it!" * The Prophet said: *"Did you not know? You will be the first of all my Community to enter it."**

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said, "*If I were to take a Khalil, I would have taken Abu Bakr, but he is my brother and my companion (in Islam)." * Sahih Bukhari - Volume 5, Book 57, Number 8

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: While I was standing amongst the people who were invoking Allah for Umar bin Al-Khattab who was lying (dead) on his bed, a man behind me rested his elbows on my shoulder and said, "(O 'Umar!) May Allah bestow His Mercy on you. I always hoped that Allah will keep you with your two companions, for I often heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar were (somewhere). I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar did (something). I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar set out.' So I hoped that Allah will keep you with both of them." I turned back to see that the speaker was Ali bin Abi Talib.- Sahih Bukhari - Volume 5, Book 57, Number 26

Please do not raise any more questions here as yet. I shall be answering all your questions and really they are not a big deal. As I said that I am up to my neck work-wise and really have a life beyond the keyboard. Insha'Allah by next Sunday, if I am still around I will definitely reply to your queries. Insha 'Allah bear the delay with patience. And may Allah (swt) reward you for that.

I just sqeezed some time now to answer your last post.

Texan Dude -** Purity and Piety ** does not imply infalliblility

156

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

How pathetic… dude… accusing me for stuff I quoted from your books…lol… I know your problem of having hard time digesting the truth was quite obvious in the thirdlast post of mine… hmm when you failed with your usual.. pick and choose or trying to make sense outta nothing… games you want to blame that I have been fed wrong stuff from my childhood… you sick mind… the hadith I quoted for Abu Bakr making Prophet angry… or Umar introducing bidah is also from your so called SAHIH BOOKS oh someone is running out of lame excuses now lets blame it on my childhood… about the ayat of companions didn’t I show you an ayat about some companions being hypocrite…oh someone have no answers to defend their belives so they want to turn the table by accusing my childhood when I posted stuff I read from your bookss… shows the usual struggle you are going through… wonder when will you learn to accept the truth … didn’t you made a real fool outta yourself… in your last few posts… asking to show when you said that .. when you sure did… got two words for you buddy GROW UP and no the ayat you mentioned … i don’t know how it applies to me… since you are blaming my childhood… for quoting stuff from your books.. you got some serious problems dude you don’t even know my childhood… don’t make a game out of quranic ayats…

lol… how screwed up buddy… you can’t defend Abu Bakr… oh mudsling on other highly respected personality … thats pathetic man… not to mention the books you claim to shia near and dear books … the only prove you had about it is some website referencing it once… no such book was referred in shia websites… oh but you want me to believe a book I never heard of … book which it is hard for you to get the literature on… is supposed to be my dear and dear book… when you failed to defend Mawiya you tried the same tactic on Hazrat Ali A.S.to accuse him for using Allah SWT sword to kill the believers… hmm not only you tried to mud sling Hazrat Ali A.S. but tried to imply nauzubillah Allah awarded his sword to someone who led the blood shed of his own believers… astagfirullah ..

[quote=“Ibn Sadique”]

Texan Dude – Try to put your belief and Trust in Quran even if it goes against what you believe!

Dude I didn’t doubt the ayat of Quran I just want to make sure if what you said fits the correct context of the ayat… So based on what you say Allah applied his law for pure men for pure women after he the ayat was introduced??? hmm I have a question for you which I shall post later…

hmm Ayesha knew Quran better than Maulana, Ayaatullah’s and you and me all combined… and what is your source of knowledge… today’s sunni Maulana nauzubillah accuses Bibi Fatima.. her purity is described in Quran also she was chosen over all ladies when it was asked to curse on liars … such a pious personality just to defend that Abu Bakr made Bibi Fatima angry for right reason accuses her for not knowing enough… in other words accuses Allah SWT to have her Prophet give such a big hadith when to them Bibi Fatima Zehra could get angry on people for wrong reasonss.. so let me guess todays scholars are better than Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A but not Ayesha.. you guyz are messed up… I want you to show me how???

hmmm and tell me does the verse And Stay in Your houses… is it meant for the wives of Prophet or the whole family of Prophet… I want to see if you stick to what you said eaerlier… this is a new way you want to interpret the ayat when you are having hard time digesting truth… I want to know who does the word And Stay in your houses refer too… before you accuse memeber of Ahley bait???

**

Ok and how does it effect people who came against Hazrat Ali A.S… or hated them…???

Walk On Water
157

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

lol its amazing … I have heard alot of sunni saying Nauzubillah… Prophet P.B.U.H. uncle Hazrat Abu Talib who raised Prophet P.B.U.H… not to mention even though Khanae Qaba was there at Mecca.. his house was chosen for Dawatul Asheera… and yet nauzubillah he was a kaffir… hmmm now let me reword what you just said…

Do you think that or dear Prophet (saw) will be raised by someone who is nauzubillah Kaffir? Imagine that! Don’t you think our dear Prophet (saw) deserves some one who is muslim? or why was his house chosen over Khanaey Qaba or is Hazrat Abu Talib a muslim??? or when it comes to wives… its gotta be pure and it doesn’t matter who raised such a pure personality or whose house is chosen to held the first dawat of islam???

Its amzing how far you go contradicting yoruself.. in your struggle accepting the truth… let me quote you what you said earlier… in your post 108

Read what you said earlier … and try to answer the following question you just asked…

and if you are still having a hard time open the quran we all believe in and read the following ayat of Quran…

Isn’t it amazing to see how you contradict yourself… but oh why am I not suprised … its not the first time now is it???

In regards to the following ayat…

Read the following commentary on the ayat above.. it suites the context of the questions I asked earlier and also the other ayats in the chapter…
www.al-islam.org/quran

This verse says that the wives of the Holy Prophet are free from impurity of adultery.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

This verse is like verse 3 of this surah. There is no legislative significance. The pure consort with the pure, and the impure with the impure. It refers to the general pattern of human behaviour.

Shakir 24:3] The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.

Verse 10 of At Tahrim says that the wicked wives of Nuh and Lut betrayed their purified husbands, the prophets of Allah. To remove the contradiction it is necessary to restrict the meaning of the cleanness to chastity and impurity to adultery in this verse, because it was revealed in connection with the accusation of adultery. “They are free from what they say” confirms it. Verse 10 of At Tahrim clearly accuses the wicked wives of the two prophets of disloyalty to their husbands. The wives of the prophets are free from the dirt of adultery but they are not free from other evils.

Also the following verse of Quran contradicts your interpretation of ayat…
[Shakir 66:4] If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
[Shakir 66:5] Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.

Now let me requote what you asked earlier to justify your interpretation of the ayat…

Now let me ask you if all of them are the best of the best… why is Allah is talking about him divorcing them and in place give him wives better than him…Something to ponder isn’t it buddy…??? or why did Ayesha disobeyed Quran… and incase you want to know context of the ayat and who the two wives are… Refer to your Sahih Bukhari.. also let me know if the references are not correct…

Imam Bukhari narrates from one of the wives of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hf), Lady 'A’ishah:

The Apostle of Allah (pbuh&hf) used to spend time with Zaynab bint Jahsh (one of his wives) and drink honey at her house. She (Lady 'A’ishah) further said: I and Hafsa (another wife) agreed that the one whom the Apostle of Allah (pbuh&hf) visited first should say: I notice that you have an odor of “maghafir” (the gum of mimosa). He (pubh) visited one of them and she told him this, whereupon he said: I have taken honey at the house of Zaynab bint Jahsh, and I will never do it again. At this, the following verse was revealed, referring to his abstination from honey:

O Prophet! Why do you ban for yourself that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives (Lady 'A’ishah and Hafsa)? And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Qur’an 66:1; see *Sahih *Bukhari, Book on the Interpretation of the Holy Qur’an, hadith #4531; *Sahih *Muslim, Book on Divorce, hadith #2694; al-Tirmidhi, Book on Foods, hadith #1574; al-Nisa’i, Book on Divorce, hadith #3367; Oaths, Vows, and Crop Sharing, hadith #3735; Intimacy for Women, hadith #3896; Abu Dawud, Book on Drinks, hadith #3227; ibn Majah, Book on Foods, hadith #3314; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, 6:221; al-Darami, Book on Foods, hadith #18986

May Allah protect the readers from any errors within… and help us all follow the right path… Ameen

3rd Test: India v England at The Oval - Aug 9-13, 2007
158

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

^ Well Texan Dude, I must clear something. The battle you described here was not started by either Ummul-Mo'mineen Aaisha (RzTU) and Sayyedna Ali (RzTU). Here is a story behind this battle................here it is in a brief way.
When Kaliph Sayyedna Umer (RzTU) captured the regions out of Arabia (Ajami Regions) specially when Muslim army defeated Irani army and killed its great warriors like Rustam. They got jealous and decided to take revenge. They started disturbance. They started to say that "The Caliph is a wicked person. Khilaphat is the right of decendents of Prophet. They show so much love for the children of Prophet, whom they disliked so much because of Islam, which our Prophet preached, there government distroyed. They worked mostly in Ajamis areas because they were afraid that Arabs will not accept them. They got famous in Ajamis areas because Ajamis were used to worship Idols and Peoples, the Iranis (Sabai firqa) used this thing and they invoke them to praise decendents of Prophet and hate other companions. And they succeed in their mission. People of Ajami areas got emotional and were against the Muslim Caliph. They cant do much during Sayyedna Umer rule, but got succeed when they murdered him. In Sayyedna Usman rule, as every one knows, he was a kind hearted man and did not control the people who created disturbence in Islamic state. So the Sabai Firqa got strong during his rule and every one knows the end of Sayyedna Usman (RzTU). I must clear that when the disturbers wanted to kill Sayyedna Usman (RzTU) both of Sayyedna Ali's (RzTU) sons were guarding his house. He asked them to go back but they denied.

159

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Here is the rest..................sorry for incomplete reply.........
I read the story of martering of Sayyedna Usman (RzTU) in my Persian Litrature Book, in second year. The both sons of Sayyedna Ali (RzTU), Sayyedna Hassan and Sayyedna Husain (RzTU) were guarding the house of Sayyedna Usman from front side with bare swords. Is not it amazing? Sayyedna Ali sent them to do that. I dont know why now Shia speak against Sayyedna Usman (RzTU). Allah must guide them to right path. Amen.
Ok continuing the reply again.......The disturbers entered the house of Sayyedna Usman from back side and murderd him wickedly. (Allah will ask them)........The same continued in the rule of Sayyedna Ali (RzTU). They never love decendents of prophet, never as they show. Thats why they continued their wicked works. They provoked the fergile issue of evenge of Sayyedna Usman (RzTU). Sayyada Ummul-Mo'mineen Aaisha and Sayyedna Ali got agree after some time on not to take evenge at that time. The story is much bigger, I am telling you in short here.

They decided to go back, with their armies. But the Sabais in both armies got upset and hitted a plan. They shooted arows from both sides and killed their companions from both sides. Both (Sayyedah Aaisha and Sayyedna Ali) thought that the other party is attacking them. Thats why this battle began. That didnot ended there. They also murderd Sayyedna Ali (RzTU) and then Sayyedna Hassan (RzTU). They call their selves "Shiyan-e-Ali" in short "Shia" uhh. Who likes them.

Please read the above care fully and dont scroll down

160

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

OMG... looks like a big copy / paste cut job is it???.... no mention of not a single reference... anywayzz all this unrefereenced doesn't justify Ayesha disobeying the following verses of Quran...

O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech.[33"32]

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.[32:33]

The first command in this verse "stay in your houses" was violated by A-isha when she went to Iraq to organise a mischievous campaign against Ali about whom the Holy Prophet said: "O Ali, you are to me as Harun was to Musa. You are my brother in this world and the hereafter. Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and me are from one and the same light."

Also, quran has the following ayat....
"And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him." (Quran 4:93)

Nor does it answer the ayats I gave in response to Ibn Sadique claim...
Originally Posted by Ibn Sadique
Do you think that or dear Prophet (saw) will be given someone who is impure? Imagine that! Don't you think our dear Prophet (saw) deserves some one pure?

Also the following verse of Quran contradicts your interpretation of ayat...
[Shakir 66:4] If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
[Shakir 66:5] Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.

Now let me requote what you asked earlier to justify your interpretation of the ayat...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Sadique
Do you think that or dear Prophet (saw) will be given someone who is impure? Imagine that! Don't you think our dear Prophet (saw) deserves some one pure?

Now let me ask you if all of them are the best of the best.... why is Allah is talking about him divorcing them and in place give him wives better than him...Something to ponder isn't it buddy...????? or why did Ayesha disobeyed Quran... and incase you want to know context of the ayat and who the two wives are... Refer to your Sahih Bukhari.. also let me know if the references are not correct...

Imam Bukhari narrates from one of the wives of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hf), Lady 'A'ishah:

The Apostle of Allah (pbuh&hf) used to spend time with Zaynab bint Jahsh (one of his wives) and drink honey at her house. She (Lady 'A'ishah) further said: I and Hafsa (another wife) agreed that the one whom the Apostle of Allah (pbuh&hf) visited first should say: I notice that you have an odor of "maghafir" (the gum of mimosa). He (pubh) visited one of them and she told him this, whereupon he said: I have taken honey at the house of Zaynab bint Jahsh, and I will never do it again. At this, the following verse was revealed, referring to his abstination from honey:

O Prophet! Why do you ban for yourself that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives (Lady 'A'ishah and Hafsa)? And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Qur'an 66:1; see Sahih *Bukhari, Book on the Interpretation of the Holy Qur'an, *hadith #4531; Sahih *Muslim, Book on Divorce, *hadith #2694; al-Tirmidhi, Book on Foods, hadith #1574; al-Nisa'i, Book on Divorce, hadith #3367; Oaths, Vows, and Crop Sharing, hadith #3735; Intimacy for Women, hadith #3896; Abu Dawud, Book on Drinks, hadith #3227; ibn Majah, Book on Foods, hadith #3314; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, 6:221; al-Darami, Book on Foods, hadith #18986

May Allah protect the readers from any errors within.... and help us all follow the right path... Ameen

Do all guys think they're good looking?