I have not insulted the Noble Lady Hz. Fatimah (ra); all I am doing is stating the stance of Ahlul Sunnah. You can check all our books and you will never find anything against her or any members of Ahlul Bayt (raa).
Just have look at yourself, how rude you were to Umm ul Momeneen Hz. Aisha (ra).
You could not even accept that she is the mother of the believers as stated by the Quran!
I had told you before that I had been holding back some astonishing stuff written in your books by some of the most prominent Shia Scholars. I was holding back partly because I have a few very dear friends of Shia persuasion and I had their sensitivities in mind. I hope they understand that you have forced my hand to post them.
I have to show you that you have in your books concerning Hz. Fatimah and Hz. Ali [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them].
**If you feel angry which is very natural and you will, then vent it out on Allama Baqir Majlisi **
Mullah Baqir Majlisi writes: 'Fatimah (R.A.) described Ali (R.A.) thus: “You are hiding like a malformed foetus in a womb; you have ran home like those who are guilty of being untrustworthy and after having destroyed the strongest men on earth you have been overcome by these wimps.” (Bihaar al-Anwar vol. 40:203)
Mullah Baqir also writes: After hearing some women talking about Ali (R.A.) Fatimah (R.A.) complained about her husband’s features: "He is a man with a big stomach. His hands are high and his bones look suppressed. He has a receding hair line, big eyes and shows his teeth all the time. He has no wealth either. (Jila-ul-Ayoun: 58, in the chapter on Fatimah)
"Jibreel came to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and said “Allah sends His Salaam upon you and says that Fatima is about to come and complain about Ali. Do not listen to anything about Ali from Fatima.”
When Fatima came, the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) asked her if she came to complain about Ali. She replied that she had. The Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: “By the Lord of the Ka’bah! Go back to Ali and tell him that you are prepared to rub your nose in dust in order to keep him happy. You may do as you please.” (Jila-ul-Ayoun: 61)
Looks like it is difficult to shake off old habits
From my post No. 67 and later the following posts 68,69,71,74,77,90, 95 I have been constantly asking you to address the following:
And you on your part have been ducking and weaving [boxing terms] to avoid addressing it.
I can see your predicament.
On one hand your beliefs are that Hz Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar, Hz. Uthman and other Companions [May Allah be pleased with them all] had ‘renegaded’ after the Prophet’s demise, damaged Islam and robbed Hz. Ali (ra) of his right.
And on the other hand in the Quran these very people have been a) Praised these stalwarts of Islam b) Promised them Pardon and Forgiveness c) Stated that He is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him d) Promised them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever e) Deemed them to be successful and triumphant
You are just going to huff and puff about something else and will avoid answering the questions posed to you again and again.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Hmm all you have a biography by a scholar… Dude let me ask you a simple question… Do you take every hadith in Sahih Bukhari… as authentic… Tell me… The fact that the hadith contradicts the teachings of Quran which witness the purity of Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. It doesn’t mean anything there are so many dhaef hadiths in your books and in any other book that was compiled years after… and the fact they contradict quran they have no meaning to me… you can post as many biography’s as you want… Here is a simple question for you… Are each and every hadith of Sahih Bukhari authentic…??? You posted from a book that hard to even find online… and not alot of of info is on there…*
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Dude lemme quote what you said earlier…
“What you are stating is immediate reaction of any human on hearing terrible news.”
Hmm atleast you now agree its natural to do matam… when you hear terrible news… and when you love someone and you hear about the sacrifices they made to save the religon of our beloved Prophet P.B.U.H. we cry and follow our natrual instincts… Does it bother you that much… and as far as making it an annual thing… Doesn’t matter when the acts are natural… it doesn’t matter if you do it once or revive it every year… the fact companions of Prophet did it in front of him and Prophet didn’t declar it bidah… its enough not doing it yearly or one time..doesn;t mean anything.. Unless your ignore mind wants to make a big fuss out of nothing … just so you can come uplame excuses just to justify an act you called bidah was practiced by some of your high respected personality… they did it and Prophet P.B.U.H didn’t stop it is enough… making yearly and crap..don’t mean anyting.. unless you want to keep play your game of lame excuses… and Yeah we do have matam on the shadat of our beloved Prophet P.B.U.H. unlike some sunni who joy the day when they lost their beloved Prophet by celebrationg his wiladat..hmm I wonder why… hmm could it be if they have lectures on the shadat of Prophet… It unveils the true faces of some of their highly respected companions…who in the greed of khilafat…left the burial of Prophet P.B.U.H … hmm kinda makes sense doesnt it buddy???
Yeah Yeah lame excuses…what else could you do.. Now based on what you just said… I guess I won’t be wrong saying that Umar was a liar… by calling a practice of Prophet a bidah..to misguided everybody… I was reading on taraweeh awhile back where I found a debate on hadith..where a hadith was quoted to have 20 some rakat because that how it was introduced.. in some sunni website with references… I’ll try to get it for you later… I don’t need to make a deal with you.. What we do is perfectly alright and don’t need to twist arguments and come up with any dumb logics to make my point…
Well you can sefely say.. if you want to carry on with the game of ignorance.. But dude here the question is about cursing the liars.. Prophet want to choose the righteous of the righteous… if all the 12 wives were righteous and truthful… why didn’t Prophet bring them Quran mentioned that he could have bring Women… when it talked about sons… why did Imam brought Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain.. he could have brought one too and that would have been enough to get your twisted logic… why didn’t he bring the lady who disobeyed Quran and led to blood shed of several muslims…hmm makes you wonder… when he brought two sons.. If the first 3 caliphs were righteous and near and dear Prophet should have brought them too.. incase you didn’t notice trying to come up with a twisted logic excuse… the ayat talks about men and women it didn’t mention to bring women of family… as your ignorant mind tried to protray…Dude looks like what you are trying to say safely is very unsafe thing to say because you don’t have a valid argument but sounds like another lame excuse of yours… sorry can’t buy that…
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
good replies Ibn Sadique, thoroughly enjoying reading them... Texan_Dude just keeps confusing himself - on the one hand he's all hot and bothered about why Aisha (r) went out of her house for the battle of jamal and yet in the immediately preceding post his self-contradictory logic allows him to conclude that all the wives of the Prophet (saw) weren't righteous because, hey, if they were they'd have been brought out of their houses(!) for the mubahala
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Another lame argument.. Its hard to make sense what on earth are you trying to say… Dude I am still waiting on answers to question I asked earlier..which you have been ignoring.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Alright all the hadith’s from whatever sources you have put.. not to mention some of your so called shia near and dear books..all you have is the biography and some scanned page that refers to the book… Certianly Allah knows the best but I doubt their authenticity because to me they contradict the teachings of Quran .. had nauzubillah Bibi Fatima not been pour quran won’t have testified it.. Had she been getting angry at people for wrong reasons as your smart brain Protray it.. Nauzubillah Allah won’t have let his Prophet give a hadith saying that making her angry makes Prophet angry…nor would have Prophet chosen her to be the only women in mubahila when it was asked to pray on curing the non liars… you can mudsling on her personality and character how much as you want the fact is quran testifies her purity and the above things i mentioned I would doubt that authenticity.. Carry on with your agenda.. inshallah Prophet P.B.U.H. will give your the ajjar… Ameen
As far as your questions are concerned.. I just gave a quick glimpse at the ayats
Here is my question its refers to people who left their homes and strove for the cause of Allah.. My questions is do you know what were the intensions of the people who migrated… I mean some of the people turned their backs when Prophet died and left the burial services for the khilafat… had the issue been so important than attending the burrial services of Prophet…Won’t Prophet P.B.U.H. have resolved it himself…why did he give the following hadith and made people pay alligance to it…"For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla)."Anywayzz getting back to the point… we don’t know and I personally don’t know what were the intensions of the people who migrated from Medina was it wordly spritual or whatsoever.. the fact that Allah SWT mentions for the cause of Allah..than just say whoever migrated… I am in no state to judge who should be included and who shouldn’t be.. If you think you have Ilme-Gaib than go-ahead and feel free too… but I won’t advice you to mislead other by posting names of the people ..when Allah knows the best.
Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight. These are they who are triumphant. - 9:20
But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives. Such are they for whom are the good things. Such are they who are the successful. - 9:88
**Again the above to ayat refer to those who believe.. certainly not all companions of Prophet P.B.U.H. were not true believers as mentioned in the ayat below **
“They swear by Allah that they are truly of you while they are not of you, but they are a people (hypocrites) who intend to divide (the Muslim nation).” and therefore I won’t use names to refer in respect who the ayat exactly refers too… I don’t want to give names until we have valid list of who are hypocrites and who are not… we have been debating on sahih bukhari that a companion praises his bidah.. and other companion made Prophet angry by using a hadith that contradicts quran.. or whatsoever .. I don’t have a right to say who are in it and who isn’t I would certainly leave it to Allah SWT.
Participated in battle of Badr?
" Those who believe and those who suffered exiles and fought ( and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah, they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (2:218)"
I’ll have to read the tafseer(Commentary of the ayat) to be sure the ayat is meant for the battleof badr… First it refers only to believers… as I talked about earlier…secondly if it read in the light of Ohad some of the companions disobeyed Prophet P.B.U.H. in greed for Maal-e-Ganeemat when they were supposed to be fighting in the path of Allah SWT as the above ayat states.. again I would refrain from using this ayat for people..Allah knows the best who fought in the path of Allah SWT.
Now that I have answered your question can you please answer the questions you have been ignoring here is 1. Based on your interpretaton of the letter of Najul Balagah how do you justify Mawiya coming to war against Ameerul Momineen Hazrat Ali A.S and still be regarded as Ameer ul Momineen… how is it justified him coming against khaleefaey waqt Ameer ul Momineen and if he is.. why is nauzbuillah Yazeed not regarded Ameer ul Momineen how is he different from his father… Also how do you interpret the sermon i quoted.
May Allah Protect People From Errors Within and This Thread..Ameen
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
then obviously this is not the thread for you
which question? the one about why all the tens of thousands of the Prophet’s (saw) companions couldn’t all at the same time squeeze into the little room to bury the Prophet (saw)? get real
the washing was carried out by some of the near relatives… no one person led the funeral rites, everyone prayed individually as Imam Malik said… all this took place after Abu Bakr (r) was appointed khalifa… Abu Bakr (r) etc. paid his respects along with everyone else, he was the one who told them where exactly the Prophet (saw) should be laid to rest… what part of this are you incapable of comprehending?
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
With so many reminders all you managed was to give a quick glimpse? Why not a detailed look? Afraid that the Truth will just leap out and strike you right in the face? It just shows how serious you were to answer the questions.
You just could not handle the questions as they are completely in favour in the blessed Companions [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all] of the Prophet (saw).
There in only one word to describe your response - Pathetic
Don’t worry, we have the viewers seeing your desperation in avoiding to answer the questions.
Do you know for real what was in anyone’s heart and what were his intentions? If you think you have Ilme-Gaib than go-ahead and feel free to say so.
You judge people from their actions and leave what is in their hearts to Allah (swt). Here (naudo-billah) you are taking over from Allah (swt) and playing the judge and the accuser at the same time.
Apply the same principle to Hz. Ali (ra) too, do you really have Ilme-Gaib of his heart. Or is that you see his greatness in his deeds?
On our part we don’t doubt and question words of Allah (swt) just to keep our beliefs intact. People are judged by their actions and only Allah (swt) knows the intentions of the heart.
Read the ayah you had quoted within the context and see if refers to the Noble people [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all]
If good befalleth thee (O Muhammad) it afflicteth them, and if calamity befalleth thee, they say: We took precaution, and they turn away well pleased. 9:50
Say: Naught befalleth us save that which Allah hath decreed for us. He is our Protecting Friend. In Allah let believers put their trust! 9:51
Say: Can ye await for us aught save one of two good things (death or victory in Allah’s way)? while we await for you that Allah will afflict you with a doom from Him or at our hands. Await then! Lo! We are awaiting with you. 9:52
Say: Pay (your contribution), willingly or unwillingly, it will not be accepted from you. Lo! ye were ever froward folk. 9:53
And naught preventeth that their contributions should be accepted from them save that they have disbelieved in Allah and in His messenger, and they come not to worship save as idlers, and pay not (their contribution) save reluctantly. 9:54
So let not their riches nor their children please thee (O Muhammad). Allah thereby intendeth but to punish them in the life of the world and that their souls shall pass away while they are disbelievers. 9:55
**And they swear by Allah that they are in truth of you, when they are not of you, but they are folk who are afraid. 9:56 ***
Had they but found a refuge, or caverns, or a place to enter, they surely had resorted thither swift as runaways. 9:57
And of them is he who defameth thee in the matter of the alms. If they are given thereof they are content, and if they are not given thereof, behold! they are enraged. 9:58
(How much more seemly) had they been content with that which Allah and His messenger had given them and had said: Allah sufficeth us. Allah will give us of His bounty, and (also) His messenger. Unto Allah we are suppliants9:59.
*Note: I could find the exact translation that you had provided online. It really makes no difference to the discussion on hand.
Regarding the war between Hz. Ali (ra) and Hz. Muawiyah (ra) , the stance of Ahlul Sunnah is very clear that Hz. Ali (ra) was on the Truth and Hz. Muawiyah (ra) wrongly thought that he was rightly fighting for avenging the death of his cousin, Hz. Uthman bin Affan (ra). He never fought for the Khilaafat in the first place.
The following two narrations should be suffice to show the stance of the two groups.
Al-Dhahabi narrated in “Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a” from Ya’ali bin Ubayd from his father who says: Abu Muslim Al-Khulani and some others went to Mu’awiyah and asked him: "Do you dispute Ali or are you equal to him?
Mu’awiyah answered: “By Allah no. I know he is better than I am, and he has the right to rule, but do not you know that Uthman was killed as an innocent? And I am his cousin and the seeker of his revenge? Therefore go to Ali and tell him to send me Uthman’s murderers then I will obey him.”
They went to Ali and talked to him, but Ali refused to hand in Uthman’s murderers to Mu’awiyah. Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a, vol.3, p.140]”
Hz. Muawiyah was willing to give an oath of allegience to Ali on the condition if he had punished the culprits who martyred Hz. Uthman (ra).
Hz. Ali (ra) in Nahjul Balagha
“The thing began in this way: We and the Syrians were facing each other while we had common faith in one Allah, in the same Prophet (s) and on the same principles and canons of religion. So far as faith in Allah and the Holy Prophet (s) was concerned we never wanted them (the Syrians) to believe in anything over and above or other than what they were believing in and they did not want us to change our faith. Both of us were united on these principles. The point of contention between us was the question of the murder of Uthman. It had created the split. They wanted to lay the murder at my door while I am actually innocent of it… [Nahjul Balagah Letter No. 58]
Let me re-emphasize again that We, Sunnis, firmly believe that Hazrat Ali (ra) was on the right. Hazrat Muawiyah (ra) was on the wrong because his ijtihad was erroneous, though he was sincere in reaching that decision.
It is the some with the battle of the Camel. The Sunni stance is that the Hz. Ali (ra) was on the right and his opponents in the wrong because their ijtihad was erroneous, though they were sincere in reaching that decision.
There are hadith to the fact Hz. Aisha (ra) showed remorse for taking part in the battle of Camel.
It is also a fact of history that Hz. Hassan bin Ali (ra) when he was treacherously dumped by his followers relinquished his right to Khilaafat in favour of Hz. Muawiyah (ra).
**The question arises, how could one who is infallible and is appointed to the Imamate by Allah (swt) can abdicate himself from divinely bestowed position in favour a fallible person? ** It doesn’t seem to click.
Texan Dude, is there any ayah in the Quran which implies infallibility of your Imams? This is just out of interest.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
And Ibn Sadique sahab goes on with his usual games of ignorance…
Dude the numerous ayats of Quran you quoted justifys my interpretation more… I can see why all this anger is coming from.. Dude go take a chill pill..
Hmm a quick glimpse… I can’t help it buddy… a quick glimpse on translations posted by no other than you was enough to show invalidity of your argument…
You quoted an ayat of Quran and said it was related to Badr.. even though badr was not mentioned in the ayat if you apply the same ayat in the battle of Ohad… it rules out a lot of your so called high personality oh poor baby… don’t leave you much choice.. the battle of Ohad shows not all fought in the way of Allah SWT and ifact some went as far as disobeying Prophet for the greed of Maal-e-Ganeebat.. boy y am i not suprised… some of the so called high companinons on the greed of khilafat left the burrial service of Prophet… **NOT TO MENTIONED YOU HAVE BEEN CONTINOUSLY FAILING TO ANSWER MY QUESTION IF THE GREED FOR KHILAFAT WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FUNERAL OF PROPHET WHY DIDN’T PROPHET ELECT ANYONE… DIDN’T THE INCIDENT WHERE PROPHET WHOEVER I AM THE LEADER OF ALI IS HIS LEADER ENOUGH … and after that he made people alligance to it??? ** www.al-islam.org/ghadir
Dude now go and take out your own so called glasses and ignorance and read my reply .. I know its hard to accept the truth but its about time you learn how too…
Here is my question its refers to people who left their homes and strove for the cause of Allah.. My questions is do you know what were the intensions of the people who migrated… I mean some of the people turned their backs when Prophet died and left the burial services for the khilafat… had the issue been so important than attending the burrial services of Prophet…Won’t Prophet P.B.U.H. have resolved it himself…why did he give the following hadith and made people pay alligance to it… "For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla)."Anywayzz getting back to the point… we don’t know and I personally don’t know what were the intensions of the people who migrated from Medina was it wordly spritual or whatsoever.. the fact that Allah SWT mentions for the cause of Allah..than just say whoever migrated… I am in no state to judge who should be included and who shouldn’t be.. If you think you have Ilme-Gaib than go-ahead and feel free too… but I won’t advice you to mislead other by posting names of the people ..when Allah knows the best.
Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight. These are they who are triumphant. - 9:20
But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives. Such are they for whom are the good things. Such are they who are the successful. - 9:88
**Again the above to ayat refer to those who believe.. certainly not all companions of Prophet P.B.U.H. were not true believers as mentioned in the ayat below **
“They swear by Allah that they are truly of you while they are not of you, but they are a people (hypocrites) who intend to divide (the Muslim nation).” and therefore I won’t use names to refer in respect who the ayat exactly refers too… I don’t want to give names until we have valid list of who are hypocrites and who are not… we have been debating on sahih bukhari that a companion praises his bidah.. and other companion made Prophet angry by using a hadith that contradicts quran.. or whatsoever .. I don’t have a right to say who are in it and who isn’t I would certainly leave it to Allah SWT.
Participated in battle of Badr?
" Those who believe and those who suffered exiles and fought ( and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah, they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (2:218)"
I’ll have to read the tafseer(Commentary of the ayat) to be sure the ayat is meant for the battleof badr… First it refers only to believers… as I talked about earlier…secondly if it read in the light of Ohad some of the companions disobeyed Prophet P.B.U.H. in greed for Maal-e-Ganeemat when they were supposed to be fighting in the path of Allah SWT as the above ayat states.. again I would refrain from using this ayat for people..Allah knows the best who fought in the path of Allah SWT.
Now that I have answered your question can you please answer the questions you have been ignoring here is 1. Based on your interpretaton of the letter of Najul Balagah how do you justify Mawiya coming to war against Ameerul Momineen Hazrat Ali A.S and still be regarded as Ameer ul Momineen… how is it justified him coming against khaleefaey waqt Ameer ul Momineen and if he is.. why is nauzbuillah Yazeed not regarded Ameer ul Momineen how is he different from his father… Also how do you interpret the sermon i quoted.
May Allah Protect People From Errors Within and This Thread..Ameen
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Imam Hassan didnot give Immate to Mawiya… if thats what your ignorant mind is trying to imply… But he did a sullah which was in interest of Islam… and put some clauses to it… Mawiya for his greed of khilafat has come against Hazrat Ali A.S. leading to a blood shed of number of muslims… Imam Hassan looking at the interest of Islam and to avoid a blood shed where muslims killed each other did a sulah with him and put some clauses to him.. I’ll try to get and post the clauses of that sullah … and we can go over which of them did he obey and which of them he didn’t which will help you understand how righteous it was… Sullah had happened before in islam… and certainly Prophets and Imams knows whats in the best of interest of Islam… and the causes of sulah are enough to judge who was rigteous and who wasn’t…
To me Imam Hassan did a sullah … in the interest of islam. which set guidlines for us to judge them how obedient they were in obeying the sullah… and if they wern’t you can judge what a good job could they have done in obeying the shariah of Prophet… and than Imam Hussain left Medina and Mecca to avoid bloodshed of other muslims where Yazeed send a number of people to kill Imam Hussain … Imam sacrificed himself and his family and tried to avoid any bloodshed of people of Medina and Mecca to show how far these people can get in their greed of Khilafat.. they sacrficed family of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. and than took rida from the ladies of family of Prophet… By the way my question still stays there.. If Mawiya led to bloodshed of number of muslims by coming to war against Hazrat Ali A.S.
Even though following is what quran have to say such people…
“And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)
What different did Yazeed do…
Hmm now since you metioned it.. Let me quote what you said earlier..
Thanks for enlightening us Mr… So Mawiya was on wrong when he went on his motto of killing several muslims… I am sure you can read the above ayat… so let me guess you claim that Mawiya was wrong when he came to war against Ameer ul Momineen Hazrat Ali A.S. and still you LOST SOULS even though you doubt his competency by saying he was wrong and led to blood shed of several muslims..still regard him as Ameer ul Momineen…
**MAY ALLAH SWT GUIDE YOU LOST SOULS..AND PROTECT US ALL FROM THE SHAR OF THESE WRONG AMEER UL MOMINEEN AND THEIR FOLLOWERS…AMEEN ! ! ! ! ! **
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
**Texan Dude ** – Don’t worry about me. Alhamdulilah I am cool as a cucumber. I don’t need to take a chill pill.
See your own posts first O Texan, it is you who is busy passing personal comments. You even had to apologise for that but since then have been back to the same routine. I have not responded in kind. Show me an instance where I addressed anything else but as Texan Dude.
Unfortunately I have to go out of town till Sunday, so won’t be able to post my reply till then.
Mean while please work on the following questions which you have failed to address
I had asked you
I hope that you address them in detail not just “a quick glimpse” and leave it that.
To my following statement:
Your respond was as below:
O.K – Why did he abdicate from Khilafaat in favour of Hz. Muawiyah (ra) if indeed Muawiyah was the enemy of his father?
How I wish that you had referred to the Quran before posting the above. But your hatred of the blessed the Companions of the Prophet (saw) [May Allah be pleased with them all] got better of you.
I request you to go back and refer to the Quran and see what Allah (swt) has said about those who participated in Battle of Uhud including those who “disobeyed Prophet P.B.U.H. in greed for Maal-e-Ganeemat when they were supposed to be fighting in the path of Allah SWT”.
I don’t think you will do justice to the Companions of the Prophet (saw) [May Allah be pleased with them all].
Isha’Allah I will address the following for you on my return post.
Even though following is what quran have to say such people… “And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)
I think this thread is heading to become “Mother of all the threads of Shia -Sunni Debates.”
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
""And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him." (Quran 4:93)"
According to this verse then, all Sunni "heroes" are in hell. And that includes Abu Bakr, Umar, Usmaan,Muawiyah. Thank God I am no longer a Sunni.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Dude you need to take out your glasses of ignnorance and you’ll find answers to the questions you have asked… but oh well. like alwayzz someone is still having hard time digesting truth from his throat and as usual playing games of ignorance… alrite let me quote the lame accusation you came against me.. when you were left speechless in your struggle accepting the truth…
**
Had you read my post with a cool mind you won’t be coming up with such accusations… I am not playing no accuser game as you are trying to protray…
let me quote you what I said earlier.. go wash your face so you can read it with an open eye…
**
Isn’t that clear enough.. but oh someone would go out of the way to spread lies and rumors just because he is going through struggle accepting the truth .. Please if you don’t have anything to say don’t spread rumors and false accusations… the big liar you are… I WONDER IF ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY IS TRUSTWORTHY… before you brought up some book and said its a near and dear shia book and all you had was some website referencing the book and author biography..wow.. WHAT A BIG LIAR YOU ARE… May Allah protect the guppies from the shar of your lies…Ameen
And you are the one who is using a ayat and than coming up with names when you yourself claiming Allah knows the best…which incase you noted I pointed out to your claim earlier… hmm you are contradicting yourself ain’t you? and I quoted the following ayat for you to justify this point of mine.. incase you missed it…
“They swear by Allah that they are truly of you while they are not of you, but they are a people (hypocrites) who intend to divide (the Muslim nation).”
Here are a few questions for you buddy? 1. How does the ayat you quoted fits on the context of Badr and not Ohad where some companions disobeyed Prophet P.B.U.H. in greed for Maal-e-Ganeemat???
2. You accused Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. for being mistaken and to justify your claim you started a whole copy paste thread and still failed to attack the character and purity of such pious lady in your attempt to come up with excuses to justify Abu Bakr did not made Prophet angry.. here is my question for you… Had nauzubillah Bibi Fatima not been pour why would quran testify it.. Had she been getting angry at people for wrong reasons as your smart brain Protray it.. Nauzubillah would Allah have let his Prophet give a hadith saying that making her angry makes Prophet angry…or would have Prophet chosen her to be the only women in mubahila when it was asked to pray on curing the non liars..??? Are you saying Prophet and Allah don’t know and you are smart enough to guess her personality…??? and if so you think you are smater than Prophet.. what would you say for the following ayat of Quran…
Say, I ask no reward from you for it except the love of my kinsfolk. And whosoever does a good deed we add unto it a greater good for him. Lo, Allah is Forgiving, Responsive. (42:23)
Are you going to say Nauzubillah Bibi could get angry for wrong reasons and you are smater than Allah to tell and Abu Bakr had all the right to make her angry.. had Allah given such ayat in Quran if Bibi could get angry for wrong reasons.. Hello isn’t this enough eye opener for you ..???
**3. The hadith in Sahih Bukhari where Umar praised taraweeh as a bidah.. you claimed he didn’t introduce the bidah he just re-organized it… My question is … Why was there a need to re-organize something… when Quran testifies the following… **
“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3) Did umar doubted in Islam being perfect and felt a need for re-organization.. and lets say if we accept the ideology that Umar join small congregation to one.. I don’t remember if your said that or someone else.. if thats what he did Is he lying by calling a practice of Prophet P.B.U.H. biddah and misleading by it???
Read the comment you came up with when you were going through the stuggle of accepting the truth… not to mention you even went through the pains of making it bold… its not just me .. if you would have bothered to see your self in the mirror
**
Just so that you don’t carry on with your game of lies and ignorance and have another false accusation for me … let me tell you that above has been quoted from your post 108 in this thread.
I have already answered your query… incase your ignorant eyes didn’t notice it… Imams like Prophet knows what is in the best interest of Islam and therefore they do Sullah .. he just didn’t abdicate.. he made a sullah.. I’ll try to look and get you the clauses of the sullah over the weekend… now are you going to say they shouldnt be doing sullah… Are you nauzubillah going to doubt the Prophecy of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. in sullah hudabiyah… Here was my respose which I have edited a little.. make sure you read it before you go on your loop game of asking same questions again and again…
To me Imam Hassan did a sullah … in the interest of islam. which set guidlines for us to judge how obedient was Mawiya in obeying the sullah… and if he wasnt you can judge what a good job could they have done in obeying the shariah of Prophet… and than Imam Hussain left Medina and Mecca to avoid bloodshed of other muslims where Yazeed send a number of people to kill Imam Hussain … Imam sacrificed himself and his family and tried to avoid any bloodshed of people of Medina and Mecca to show how far these people can get in their greed of Khilafat.. they sacrficed family of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. and than took rida from the ladies of family of Prophet… By the way my question still stays there.. If Mawiya led to bloodshed of number of muslims by coming to war against Hazrat Ali A.S.
Even though following is what quran have to say such people…
“And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)
What different did Yazeed do…??? 4. You said the following about Mawiya
Originally Posted by Ibn Sadique
Let me re-emphasize again that We, Sunnis, firmly believe that Hazrat Ali (ra) was on the right. Hazrat Muawiyah (ra) was on the wrong because his ijtihad was erroneous, though he was sincere in reaching that decision.
Following are the hadith on Hazrat Ali A.S. in your sahih books.. please let me know if the references are not correct
The Messenger of Allah said:
“Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy.”
Sunni references:
Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;
Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;
Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128
Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202
Hilyatul Awliya’, by Abu Nu’aym, v4, p185
Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462
Also Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr that:
Ali (RA) said: By him who split up the seed and created something
living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a
promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a
hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.
Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141
This tradition of Prophet was popular to the extent that some of the
companions used to say:
“We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali.”
Sunni references:
Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition #1086
al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47
al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v3, p242
Dhakha’ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p91
Certainly Mawiya did come against Hazrat Ali A.S. and led to the blood shed of several muslims… based on the context of ayat above and the fact that you yourseld said he was wrong.. How can he still be regarded as Ameer ul Momineen??? and if he is Nauzubillah why don’t you take your love and respect for the hypocrites to the extreme and also call Yazeed L.A. a Ameer ul Momineen…??? (Question 4)
P.S I would really appreciate if you stop spreading lies and rumor about me in the forum… If you are having struggle accepting the truth you might want to cool down and ponder… rather than coming up with lame accusations and excuses.
May Allah Protect People From Errors Within and This Thread..Ameen
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
some equally relevant hadith…
“The sign of belief (iman) is love of the Ansar, and the sign of hypocrisy (nifaq) is hatred of the Ansar”
Sahih al Bukhari, 5:128
Sahih Muslim, 1:136-137
Musnad Ahmed ibn Hanbal, 12127
al Nasai’s Sunan al Sughra, 4979
al Nasai’s Sunan al Kubra, 7099
Musnad Abu Ya’la, 4066
al Baihaqi’s Shu’ab al Iman, 1482
“None loves the Ansar save a believer and none hates them save a hypocrite. So whosoever loves them, Allah loves him; and whosoever hates them, Allah hates him”
Sahih al Bukhari, 5:127
Sahih Muslim, 1:138
Sunan al Tirmidhi, 3997
Musnad Ahmed ibn Hanbal, 18214
al Nasai’s Sunan al Kubra, 7102
Sahih Ibn Hibban, 7395
Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba, 31735
al Baihaqi’s Shu’ab al Iman, 1481
“No one who believes in Allah and the Last Day hates the Ansar”
Sahih Muslim, 1:139-140
Musnad Ahmed ibn Hanbal, 11224
al Nasai’s Sunan al Kubra, 7091
Sahih Ibn Hibban, 7397
Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba, 31754
Musnad al Tayalasi, 2284
al Tabarani’s Mu’jam al Kabir, 12172
i wonder how many of the Ansar today’s shi-ites can bring themselves to love?
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Addressing the second point:
The hadiths of Prophet Muhammad that have been recorded give details on how to read namaaz, do wadu, give azaan, etc. Allah (swt) sent him to deliver His message and to serve as an example for all other Muslims.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Gupguppy…care to clairfy this definition of Ansar??? who is in it and who isn’t… Were the companions who made Prophet angry… who introduced Bidah.. are they included in them???
phatima… read my query in # 4. Islam was perfect during the time of Prophet P.B.U.H. assuming if sunnah was the right way to follow along with the quran why didn’t Prophet specify a correct source to follow the sunnah… Why are there differences in Hanafi , Maliki, shafai school of thoughts… Fiqh Jaffaria has 12 Imams and teaching of non contradicted the teaching of other… not to mention unlike the hajafi, shafai, maliki… 3 of the fiqh Jafferia was there during the time of Prophet P.B.U.H. and last one is Imam Mahdi A.S. about whom Prophet P.B.U.H. mentioned in his hadiths.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
don’t tell me, let me try and guess… the shi-ites believe that of the Ansar of Madinah all barring 1 person or maybe 1.1/4 (okay one and two thirds at the most) were hypocrites feigning belief… is there no one shi-ites won’t write out of history to try and bolster their hate-filled creed?
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Dude, I asked you one simple question and you started coming up with numbers and calculate statistics… I was having a hard time recalling are Ansar people who were in medina or the one who migrated… i was getting mixed up in Ansar and Mahajirs… thats why I asked… and rather than answering my query I donno what math you were doing… the hadith you quoted… I never read anything like that in my books. The hadith refers to Ansar in general… whereas quran talks about some companions being hypocraites.. the same Sahih Bukhari testifies that Abu Bakr made Prophet angry… not to mention Sahih Bukhari had hadith from Umar where Umar praises his bidat.. not to mention another hadith in the same book talks about some companions of Prophet P.B.U.H. going to hell because they introduced bidats… Do the above hadith cover them also… and yeah lets not start the game of number.. and if you want too Isn’t it amazing that at Kerbala there were only 72 people who were killed in Imam Hussain A.S. army to defend islam whereas Yazeed came up with army of thousands… are you going to imply since he had so many so called muslims in his army boy he is righteous.. they were obeying their khaleefa -e- waqt and they obeyed the one before Mawiya who raged war against Ameer ul Momineen Hazrat Ali A.S… ??? when Quran clearly states following: “And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)
Alhamdulillah we do respect the righteous companions… companions like Hazrat Salman Farsi, Hazrat Abu zar Gaffari, Hazrat Ammar Yassir. Hazrat Ali A.S. but we don’t respect the ones who introduced bidats and offended Prophet P.B.U.H or killed other muslims… and your books are enough to justify the actions of such companions.
How about answering the 4 questions I asked.. than just coming up with lame accusations…
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
^ not at all surprising that a shi-ite wouldn't know whether the Ansar were from Madinah or were those who had migrated from Makkah... shi-ites are first-class ignoramuses when it comes to the Prophet's (saw) companions... pretending to like five or six of them whilst chastising and hating the many others that the Prophet (saw) himself loved is hardly an enviable position to be in... since you suffer from selective memory loss, there's little point saying – but i'll do it anyway - that your accusations about companions supposedly introducing this or that innovation have already been addressed here or elsewhere as has been mentioned