A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Allama Ibne Saddique sahib,

Since you have been quoting a lot of Najul Balagah, and having trouble digesting the truth in it.. Let me try to break it down for you… the same Najul Balagah you quoted the earlier letter from have a sermon also… which we have talked before… but let me quote it for you…

If had I attempted to pluck the unripe fruit of Caliphate then by this the orchard would have been desolated and I too would have achieved nothing, like these people who cultivate on other’s land but can neither guard it, nor water it at proper time, nor reap any crop from it. The position of these people is that if I ask them to vacate it so that the owner should cultivate it himself and protect it, they say how greedy I am, while if I keep quiet they think I am afraid of death. They should tell me on what occasion did I ever feel afraid, or flew from battle-field for life, whereas every small or big encounter is proof of my bravery and a witness to my daring and courage. He who plays with swords and strikes against hillocks is not afraid of death. I am so familiar with death that even an infant is not so familiar with the breast of its mother. Hark! The reason for my silence is the knowledge that the Prophet has put in my bosom. If I divulge it you would get perplexed and bewildered. Let some days pass and you would know the reason of my inaction, and perceive with your own eyes what sorts of people would appear on this scene under the name of Islam, and what destruction they would bring about. My silence is because this would happen, otherwise it is not silence without reason."

http://www.al-islam.org/nahj/default.asp?url=5.htm](http://www.al-islam.org/nahj/default.asp?url=5.htm)

Certainly Hazrat Ali A.S. called himself the owner and by all means he is justified to do so… because your own books have the following hadith

“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”

www.al-islam.org/ghadir

What you have been swetting so far by pick and choose parts of it is just a letter which was written by Hazrat Ali A.S. to Mawiya, where he has used your own ideologies which was used to elect the first 3 caliphs to prove that Mawiya has no right to go against him.. its so simple.. like you are quoting form our books.. Hazrat Ali A.S is writing a letter to mawiya to justify by your own ideologies Mawiya has no right to go against him.. but oh you lost souls the person who came again this Ameer ul Momineen.. you regard them as Ameer ul Momineen also… oh boy !

Originally posted by Ibne Sadique
In the hadith of 12 Ameers of Quraish the Prophet (saw) **did not name any names except from that of Imam Mahdi (ra). **Why should I dare name them when the Prophet (saw) has not? I don’t sweat of pointless questions.

Read your own books and you’ll find the answers… You just need to expand your horizons a bit.
Read the hadith I quoted above…
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”
he certainly made Hazrat Ali the Mawla…
now follow his footsteps and u’ll find who he made imam after him and so on… incase you still have a hard time tell me and I can give you the name of the 12…
The righteous Imams.. 3 of whom were there duriing the time of Prophet and teachings of none of these imams contradicts each other… not to meniton following is the hadith Prophet told about the Last Imam.

The following are only some of the traditions about Imam al-Mahdi which Sunnis admit to their authenticity and existence:
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “Even if the entire duration of the world’s existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left (before the day of judgment), Allah will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then).”

Go to the following websitef or references.
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter2/2.html

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “The Mahdi will appear in my Ummah. He will appear for a minimum of 7 or a maximum of 9 years; at that time, my Ummah will experience a bountiful favor like never before. It shall have a great abundance of food, of which it need not save anything, and the wealth at that time is in great quantities, such that if a man asks the Mahdi to give him some, and the Mahdi (AS) will say: Here! Take!”

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah (SWT) has chosen for them the life of the Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death; then there will come people from the East carrying black flags, and they will ask for some good to be given to them, but they shall be refused service; as such, they will wage war and emerge victorious, and will be offered that which they desired in the first place, but they will refuse to accept it till they pass it to a man from my family (Ahlul-Bayt) appears to fill the Earth with justice as it has been filled with corruption. So whoever reaches that (time) ought to come to them even if crawling on the ice/snow since among them is the Vice-regent of Allah (Khalifatullah) al-Mahdi.”
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter2/2.html

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

**Texan Dude ** - You can haahaa and heehee as much as you want but be aware that you are doing so at your own expense. I understand the letter well and the argument Hz. Ali (ra) is putting forward to Hz. Muawiyah (ra) for his right to the Khilafaat. **The important point to me is that he (Hz. Ali (ra)) has also accepted that the election of his three predecessors [Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra)] was as per approval and pleasure of Allah. ** This point sufficed for me.

This is what you are avoiding to swallow. I don’t blame you because if you accept this fact which is clear as daylight the concept of Imamate is rendered useless.

You to your beliefs; and me to mine.

We should leave it to the viewers to decide as to who is twisting Hz. Ali’s words and who is ignoring to accept what Hz. Ali has stated.

**Texan Dude ** - Don’t worry, nobody’s mad with you just a bit frustrated with your lack of basic comprehension.

The Ayahs of the Quran are full of praise for the Companions – I have no problem with that.

Your intrinsic hatred for the companions of the Prophet (saw) [May Allah be pleased with them all] will not let you swallow this fact too.

You to your beliefs; and me to mine.

The following hadith from sahih Bukhari that you are fond of quoting in no way contradicts the ayahs of the Quran in favour of the Companions of the Prophet (saw) but only in your mind.

Gupguppy has already answered it at the following post. Your basic problem is that you cannot accept any praise for the Sahabah (raa). You keep sulking, no problems.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=3261182&postcount=64

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

**Texan Dude ** - Let me give it to you straight - I never said that “all the hadith’s Prophet mentioned only applies during the lifetime of Prophet and have no meaning after”. Please refrain from saying what I have never said. It’s a bad habit.

What I said was that the following statement “Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.” was not made in favour of Fadak against Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) which is what shias mostly quote.

I have already given a hadith where Hz. Ali (ra) was intending to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. Since it was from Sahih Bukhari I can understand your problem in accepting it.

So I have done some research and am presenting you some narrations from your books which you hold very dear, confirming what Sahih Bukhari has stated and even beyond.

Note that the following Narration is via the authority of Imam Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra) whom you take to be infallible! And the narrations are recorded by the most eminent Shia scholars of the past.

Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, known as Al-Sadooq, narrated in his book on the authority of** Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq**: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatimah the daughter of the Messenger of Allah pbuh and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl.”

She said: “Is it true what you say!” He said: “What I say is true”, three times.

Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah –tala-has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.

He said: And Fatimah’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it till night time and (then) she carried Al-Hassan on her right shoulder and carried Al-Hussain on her right shoulder and she held to held Umm Kulthoom’s left hand in her right hand and she moved to her father’s apartment.

Ali came to his apartment and did not see Fatimah and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.

When the Prophet pbuh saw how **sad and anguished ** Fatimah was, he poured water over himself and wore his clothes and entered the Masjid. He kept praying, making Rukoo and Sujood, and after every time he completed two raka he made dua’ that Allah remove what Fatimah had of **sadness and anguish ** because he left her turning over and breathing heavily.

When the Prophet pbuh saw that she could not sleep and could not rest he said: “O daughter rise.” So she rose and the Prophet pbuh carried Al-Hassan and she carried Al-Hussain and took hold of Umm Kulthoum’s hand until they reached Ali (AS) while he was sleeping. So the Prophet pbuh put his foot on Ali and pinched him and said: “Rise Abu Turab. You have disturbed many a resting person. Call for me Abu Bakr from his house and Umar from his Majlis and Talha.”

So Ali went and got them from their houses and they gathered to the Messenger of Allah pbuh. The Messenger of Allah pbuh then said: **“O Ali! Do you not know that Fatimah is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death." ** [Refer to Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, aka al-Sadooq El al Al-Sharae’ p. 185 – 186 Al-Najaf print. Also Allamah al-Majlisi narrated it in his book Jila-ul-Ayoun]

She was angry yet another time as narrated in Shia books.

“When Fatimah (ra) asked for Fadak from Abu Bakr and he refused to give it to her, she returned full of anger that could not be described and she was sick and she was angry with Ali because he refused to help her." Refer to Al-Majlisi’s Haqq-ul-Yaqeen p. 203-204

I have other similar narrations from Shia books but will refrain from posting here due to my respect and love for the blessed members of the Prophet (saw)’s family[May Allah (swt) be pleased with all].

According to these narrations we notice that:

  1. The Prophet’s (saw) saying “Fatimah is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me” is addressed to Hz. Ali (ra) but the Shias use it only for Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) so if this statement involved punishment from Allah (swt) then it would certainly befall Hz. Ali (ra) before Hz. Abu Bakr (ra).

  2. There other incident, narrated by Allamah al-Majlisi, that happened between Ali and Fatimah and lead to Fatimah’s anger with Ali. What is the Shias response to this anger?!

Whatever response they use to defend Hz. Ali (ra) then we would use the same to defend Hz. Abu Bakr (ra).

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Why the sudden change in addressing me? Before that you had the following choicest words for me.

“HOW BIG OF A LIAR YOU ARE” “HOW MESSED UP YOU BELIEVES ARE” “its amazing how messed up you lost souls are.” “what a lost soul you are buddy” “HOW SICK OF YOU DUDE !”

I hope you were not being mockingly sarcastic, please say that you were not.

Can I return the favour to you and address you as the Grand Ayatullah Texan Dude? Please, say yes.

I am ignoring rest of your post as it is repetitive and cut & paste job. All the issues have been discussed. If you don’t have anything new to say then don’t bother.

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Dude both the tranlation of verses were quoted by you and they are clear.. so you can go and play your game of ignorance as much as you want.. because you don’t have an argument to start with the other sermons and the text of letter itself stands for it.. you yourself have quoted and read the sermon whenre Hazrat Ali A.S mentioned him as the owner… and your own translations contradicts your interpretation..and I have made it clear several times.. and you don’t have anything to disprove me … you can go and playing the pick and choose game as much as you want… Why am I not suprised just to defend Abu Bakar you went as forward as saying that the Prophet hadith don’t apply after his death.. Boy what else could I expect from a guy like you… It was interesting first you came up with a translation than when it failed to meet your interest you blamed it on me and came up with another translation and when it failed to full fill your interest you just played the game of ignorant and said the arabic translation is different from the translation you yourself provided.. oh Boy… what can I expect from you dude…
Go and carry with your game of pick and choose and ignorance…

MAkhiyaan he MakhiyAaan
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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Oh ! How exactly can one comprehend the following words…

“This statement cannot relate to Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) as issue of Fadak arose after the Prophet (saw)’s death. And this statement was made in Prophet (saw)’s life time.”

No where did Prophet mentioned that the hadith does not refer to fadak.. its a hadith and applies to anyone who makes Hazrat Fatima Zeha S.A. angry… poor thing… but no someone playing his game of ignorance would cross the limits by saying Abu Bakr made Bibi Fatima angry after his death doesn’t apply… is that how you interpret hadith’s ..to you they don’t apply after the death of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H… how much you will contradict your own believes.. just to justify one point and ignore the other… Shows how far you cross the limits to justify one believe and contradict other.. so from now on the hadith made by Prophet P.B.U.H. doesnot apply after his marriage…??? Thats exactly what you said above can be interpreted.

Looks like a nice cut paste job… Is it??? and if it is I am sure you found it as some anti shia propoganda website rather than an authentic shia website itself…did you?..the book you are refering too I never heard of it .. nor can I even pull it up online… is this how it is correctly spelled “El al Al-Sharae”. I am sorry but the only thing that pulls up in google by that name is an arabic magazine… I hope you are not saying that nauzubillah Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq published the above in some arabic maganize

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Let see what did you have to say about the following hadith’s which I quoted from your own books..
Allah’s Messenger (pbuh&hf) said: I will be there at the Fountain of Kawthar before you, and I will have to contend for some people, but I will have to yield. I will be saying: My Lord, they are my companions, they are my companions, and it will be said: You don’t know what innovations they made after you.

Sahih Bukhari, Book on Heart-Melting Traditions, hadith #6089 and #6090; Book on the Trials, hadith #6527; Sahih Muslim, Book on the Virtues, hadith #4250; Ibn Majah, Book on Religious Rituals, hadith #3048; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, 1:384, 402, 406, 407, 425, 439, 453, 455;5:387, 393, 400

Amazing now lets see if Sahih Bukhari goes through the trouble of pointing out any companion who did introduce innovation.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 32, Number 227:

… Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari said, “I went out in the company of Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, Umar said, In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!). So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Kab. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, Umar remarked, What an excellent Bida (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering. He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night.”

Yeah I have seen your struggle accepting the truth and the lame excuses you have been coming up with… its ok I’ll let you go on it.. But yeah thanks for pointing us out that the Biddah started by Umar was taraweeh…

I am glad Alhamdullilah I am not the follower of this bidah.

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

I am sorry if I called you names.. I know as a muslim I shouldn’t but your ignorance just gets me… first you gave me a translation of letter to make your point.. and when I proved.. the context of letter doesn’t full filll your interests you accused me and the translation.. and came up with another translation which was worded differently but meant the same… not to mention it clearly says form the start that people who elected the first 3 caliphs have elected Hazrat Ali A.S. and from there it carries on with the ideology set up by these people… not to mention it was Mawiya the letter who was written too… and I explained you the same way you quoted my book Hazrat Ali is using that example to prove his point that mawiya had no right to against based on that ideology and the same book you quoted the letter from had a sermon where hazrat Ali did call himself the right full owner and I quoted the hadith from your book the justify his claim.. and than i used the same letter to show you that mawiya went against the ideology that was used to select the first 3 caliphs and raged war agianstt Ameer ul Momineen Hazrat Ali A.S. and you guys regard him as Ameer ul Momineen.. which ofcouse is messed you having no answer just pick and choose just one part more like a sentence of the whole letter to full fill you claim even though you had nothing to justify the thing I pointed out… all it shows your ignorance and struggle accepting the truth .. I am sorry if I have called you names but youir struggle is quite obvious and I can understand why you are having hard time… but dude ignorance is not the key.. you need open your horizons and learn to accept the truth..

Second time just to defend the hadith from your own book which mentions Abu Bakr made Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. angry you out of ignorance came up with an excuse that it doesn’t apply Abu Bakar because Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. was not alive.. this is playing plain ignorance… and not to mention contradicts your other believes.. this ignorance of yours got me and thats why I called you stuff which as a muslim I shouldn’t and I am sorry for that but I would advice you to expand your horizons for think about the things you have been struggling on .. what I mentioned above … playing ignorant won’t get you any where buddy…

nain....
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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

**Texan Dude ** Let me try again to explain to you. The words “Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.” were uttered by the Prophet (saw) to Hz. Ali (ra). This was what the Prophet (saw) said to Hz. Ali (ra) as he (Hz. Ali (ra)) was the cause of Hz. Fatimah’s anger.

Hz. Fatimah’s (ra) anger towards Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) comes much later – after the demise of the Prophet (saw).

This is what I had said:

I had asked an Arab friend of mine and he had e-mailed it to me. I’ll ask him again to clarify the following reference “El al Al-Sharae”

Meantime you can check up Allamah al-Majlisi’s book Jila-ul-Ayoun

I have told that I have more of such stuff from Shia books where Hz. Fatimah (ra) shows her disappointment with Hz. Ali (ra) and that I have refrained from posting it here as I don’t believe it - the fact remains that it is in your books that at times Hz. Ali (ra) was the cause of Hz. Fatimah’s (ra) anger.

I am referring you to an Arabic Shia website the link is given below:

It refers pretty much to what I have ‘pasted’ above

http://www.rafed.net/books/seara/fatima/07.html

the following starts from No. 128 onwards.

على ان هناك ساعات خلاف كانت جد شديدة ، وشكايات ، لا شك انها انما كانت اكثر من شكاية بالنسبة للمرأة حتى وان كانت بنت المصطفى صلى الله عليه وسلم ، ومن ثم فقد بلغ العتاب بين الزوجين ما يبلغه من خصومة بين زوجين وذلك حين نما الى الزهراء ان الإمام يهم بخطبة « جويرية بنت عمرو بن هشام بن المغيرة ، المعروف بأبي جهل ، وفي حسبان الإمام علي انه يجري على مألوف عادة قومه في الجمع بين زوجتين واكثر ، ويفعل ما اباحه له الاسلام من تعدد الزوجات ، بدون ان يخطر بباله ان هذا ما تنكره بنت نبي الاسلام ، وربما كانت هذه الخطبة غضبة من غضبات الإمام ، على انفة من انفات الزهراء ، او لعلها نازعة من نوازع النفس البشرية لم يكن في الدين ما يأباها ، وان اباها العرف في حالة المودة والصفاء ، ومن ناحية اخرى ، فان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يعلم حق علي في الزواج ، ولكن الرسول في ابوته الرحيمة يؤذيه ان ترّوع احب بناته بضرة ، ويشفق عليها من تجربة قاسية

كهذه يعلم انها لا قبل لها باحتمالها ثم ان عليا اراد ان يتزوج بنت ابي جهل ، فهل يرضى الله ان يجمع بيت الإمام علي بين بنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبين بنت عدو الله ورسوله ، وكتب السيرة مليئة بمواقفه المخزية ضد الاسلام ورسول الاسلام ، ولعل هذا هو السبب الذي من اجله ثار رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لانه من غير المعقول ان تكون ابنة هذا الرجل بالذات ، ضرة للزهراء بنت نبي الله ورسوله ، ولم يكن من المعقول ، بل من المستحيل على وجه اليقين ، ان يستبدل برسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ابا جهل بن هشام صهرا ، وليس علي بالذات هو الذي يؤذي نبيه واباه وابن عمه في احب بناته اليه.
هذا ويروى عن يحيى بن سعيد القطان قال : ذاكرت عبد الله بن داود الحريثي قول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم « لا آذن الا ان يحب علي بن ابي طالب ان يطلق ابنتي وينكح ابنتهم ، قال ابن داود : حرم الله على عليّ ان ينكح على فاطمة في حياتها لقوله تعالى : ( وما آتاكم الرسول فخذوه ، وما نهاكم عنه فانتهوا ) ، فلما قال النبي : لا آذن ، لم يكن يحل لعلي ان ينكح على فاطمة ، الا ان يأذن رسول الله ، قال وسمعت عمر بن داود يقول : لما قال الرسول فاطمة بضعة مني يريبني ما رابها ، ويؤذيني ما آذاها ، حرم الله على علي ان ينكح على فاطمة ، اذ انه بنكاحه عليها يؤذي الرسول ، والله تعالى يقول : ( وما كان لكم ان تؤذوا رسول الله ) » ، واضاف الشيخ دحلان في السيرة وألحق بعضهم اخواتها بها ، وان رأى احتمال اختصاص الزهراء بذلك ، وهذا ما نرجحه ونميل الى الاخذ به ، والله اعلم .
واما قصة تلك الخطبة ، فقد روى ابن اسحاق في السيرة ، ان علي بن ابي طالب خطب ابنة ابي جهل من عمها الحارث ، واستأمر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال له : « عن اي شأنها تسألني ، عن حسبها ، قال : لا ، ولكن تأمرني بها ، فقال صلى الله عليه وسلم فاطمة بضعة مني ، ولا احب ان تجزع ، فقال علي : لا آتي شيئاً تكرهه » ، واخرج الإمام احمد عن الشعبي قال : « خطب علي ، عليه السلام ، بنت ابي جهل الى عمها الحارث بن هشام ، فاستشار النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فيها ، فقال : اعن حسبها تسألني ، قال علي : قد اعلم ما حسبها ، ولكن أتأمرني بها ، فقال : لا ، فاطمة مضغة مني ، ولا

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Tell me something, when the Prophet (saw) says “I will be there at the Fountain of Kawthar before you, and I will have to contend for some people, but I will have to yield. I will be saying: My Lord, they are my companions, they are my companions, and it will be said: You don’t know what innovations they made after you.”

How many people do see as some people? All the Companions except for 4 or 5?

Does this **some people ** apply for whom Allah (swt) has: a) Praised these stalwarts of Islam b) Promised them Pardon and Forgiveness c) Stated that He is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him d) Promised them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever e) Deemed them to be successful and triumphant

Tareweeh prayers were not the ‘invention’ of Hz. Umar al Khattab. It was started & performed by the Prophet (saw). Hz. Umar al Khattab (ra) just re-organised the prayers.

Hz. Ali (ra) was present then, is there any reference in Shia literature where he has objected to this practice or refused to take part in the Taraweeh congregation?

Did he ban the performing of Tarweeh when he had the authority?

Let’s for sake of argument accept the Taraweeh is biddah.

Once in year in Ramadan, the Sunnis dutifully go to the masjids and pray Taraweeh.

Whereas once in year, in Muharaam, the Shias dutifully go to masjids and perform Mataam.

Which do you think will seem to be an Islamic act to complete neutral outsiders?

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Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

I really didn’t mind you calling me names, what surprised me was that you addressed me as Allama for a change. :smiley:

I had already excused you for calling me names, and had put it down to your misguided zeal (that’s my opinion) to defend the Ahlul Bayt (raa) and attack and abuse the Companions (raa). I knew where you were coming from.

There were no hard feelings from my side, I assure you. Since you have very kindly apologised, I humbly accept.

I gave you the two translations of letter 6 from the **Shia sources ** to show the **discrepancy within the Shia ** about the translation. To show you how the words are imposed in to enhance one’s point.

I had also told you the translations have not done justice to the original Arabic text which was the words spoken by Hz. Ali (ra).

You can ask any Arab if you know any to translate letter 6 from Arabic Nahjul Balagha for you. Then you will know what I am talking about.

92

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

The hadith of Prophet arent meant for a set period of time… The fact that he made Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. angry means he made Prophet P.B.U.H. angry no matter when and where Prophet didn’t mentioned who only does it apply too…

Yeah please make sure you check your references before you start making accusations to so high personalities… El al Al-Sharae… if it would have been some real high authentic shia book I am sure I could pull up atleast a few hadith or the name atleast on the net but there isn’t any thing out there… please verify your references before you attack the character of such high personalitites…and mis led other about them… not to mention all what you quoted you yourself said the following :
"I have refrained from posting it here as I don’t believe it " Go and ensure your references before you attack the character of so high personalities. I will look at your read on your other references and tell you about them later.

Another twisted logic of yours… Now let me get it straight are you implying that Umar wants to take the credit of something started by Prophet by calling it bidah… the fact that he re-organized sonething that was started by Prophet… hmm doesn’t it fit for your so called definition of “Bidah”.. or re-organizing is a nice way of saying its not bidah ..when it actually is???. I am sorry dude but all I have quoted are both the hadith from your own books… you can come up with as many twisted up logics as you want.. one hadith talks about people who introduce bidats… and the second one talks about Umar admiring bidah introduced by himself…

Dude incase you don’t know they do a lot more than mattam have religous lectures.. which is allowed in islam and as far as matam is concerned these things were done in the time of Prophet but he never stopped it… Hazrat Owais karni broke all his teeth when he found out Prophet lost his teeth… did Prophet prohibit the act???

And all I did was just quoted a hadith on Abu Bakr offending Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. from no other than Sahih Bukhari and another hadith from Umar praising his bidat… from no other than sahih bukhair and than I quoted from no other than Sahih Bukhari what Prophet P.B.U.H. had mentioned about such deeds… does this mean I am attacking and abusing the companions.. if thats the case .. its not me dude its your own Sahih Bukhari thats saying it .. I am just quoting it… you might want to call your book “misguided zeal” to protect the companions… all I did was just quoted from it.

No you wern’t able to show any discrepancy… If i give you two people a letter in urdu and ask them to translate in english, both of them might end up choosing different words and end up apply the same meaning… and incase you didn’t notice, I showed from both your translations that there was no discrepancy but they both are talking about the same thing which doesnot fill your interest.. not to mention you failed to point out in the light of the letter you quoted how can mawiya bee Ameer ul Momineen… and if what you said was true Hazrat Ali won’t have described the khilafat is the following words in the sermon below:

If had I attempted to pluck the unripe fruit of Caliphate then by this the orchard would have been desolated and I too would have achieved nothing, like these people who cultivate on other’s land but can neither guard it, nor water it at proper time, nor reap any crop from it. The position of these people is that if I ask them to vacate it so that the owner should cultivate it himself and protect it, they say how greedy I am, while if I keep quiet they think I am afraid of death. They should tell me on what occasion did I ever feel afraid, or flew from battle-field for life, whereas every small or big encounter is proof of my bravery and a witness to my daring and courage. He who plays with swords and strikes against hillocks is not afraid of death. I am so familiar with death that even an infant is not so familiar with the breast of its mother. Hark! The reason for my silence is the knowledge that the Prophet has put in my bosom. If I divulge it you would get perplexed and bewildered. Let some days pass and you would know the reason of my inaction, and perceive with your own eyes what sorts of people would appear on this scene under the name of Islam, and what destruction they would bring about. My silence is because this would happen, otherwise it is not silence without reason."

Your whole interpetation is wrong based on the light of Hazrat Ali sermons in this book not to mention your only prove is that both the translation you quoted didn’t meet your interest so read in arabic… even though they perfectly fit the text and sermons of the book… by the way from the above sermon read the following words…

Let some days pass and you would know the reason of my inaction, and perceive with your own eyes what sorts of people would appear on this scene under the name of Islam…

Based on your own book one of them introduced bidah and was proud of it…Mawiya went against your own ideology set up for khilafat and led the blood shed of so many muslims by coming up against Ameer ul Momineen Hazrat Ali A.S and is still an Ameer ul Momineen… Yazeed followed the foot steps of mawiya and led a war against Imam Hussain and killed the family of Prophet P.B.U.H. in this greed of khilafat why not call him nauzubillah Ameer ul Momineen also…if every one who becomes khaleefa is nauzubillah Ameer ul Momineen why not him…wow the sermon speaks for itself… and sure did time helped us to guide who was right and who was wrong. Didn’t you read the following ayat of Quran.
“And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)

May Allah help us all follow the rigth path..Ameen

93

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

I have given you enough material (Please don’t force me to push other ones from Shia sources ) to show that Hz. Ali (ra) earned Hz. Fatimah (ra)’s anger. Are you going to apply the same criteria to judge him as that you apply to Hz. Abu Bakr (ra)?

If Hz. Fatimah’s anger has put Hz. Abu Bakr (ra)’s position in jeopardy, shouldn’t the same rule apply to Hz. Ali (ra) for earning Hz. Fatimah’s anger?

There should be sense of fair play, you agree?

Yes, I (we Sunnis) agree that Hz. Fatimah (ra) was angry with Hz. Abu Bakr (ra). We don’t take anyone but the Prophets (saw) to be infallible. She was mistaken in her anger. Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) did not go out delibrately to ‘earn’ Hz. Fatimah’s anger and neither did Hz. Ali (ra). There are numerous narrations from the Shia scholars which support the stance taken by Hz. Abu Bakr (ra). It’s all over the Net. under the topic of Fadak. I am not interested to discuss it here so please leave it out from this thread.

You will be relieved to know that I have managed to get the scan of the top cover of this book to show you that it exists. Just because you googled for it and did not find it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
Surprise for you. Check the following Shia Site www.dartabligh.org – (Alhamdulilah)

and click at the following link:

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:r9XSRxIFV8gJ:www.dartabligh.org/web/supplement/files/4thshaban1423.doc+Elal+al-Sharae'+by+Shaikh+al-Sadooq&hl=en

And you will get an article with ‘Elal al-Sharae by Shaikh al-Saduk highlighted as shown below:

Your Questions Answered

By Hujjatul Islam Sayyid Muhammad Musawi

Question: What does the word Ummi mean in the Holy Qur’an?
Answer The Prophet Muhammad (s) was not educated or taught by any human being, but by Allah (swt), as we read in Qur’an (and Allah has taught you (O Muhammad) whatever you did not know (4: 113).
Regarding the meaning of Ummi in Sura Al-Juma’a, it is the person who belongs to Mecca, which is called also Ummul Qura. The Prophet (s) was never illiterate as some ignorant people claim. How can he be illiterate when Allah has taught him every knowledge? Allah (SWT) told the Prophet in Quran “and he taught you whatever you didn’t know” (4:113)
The error free Imams of the Ahlul Bait were defending the truth and countering these false allegations, which claimed that the Prophet (s) was illiterate. Imam Muhammad Al Baqir (as) said about those who claimed that: ( they are liars, may the curse of Allah(swt) be on them. How can the Prophet be illiterate says in his clear book “and he who sent among the ummiis a messenger from them to recite on them his verses and purify them and teach them the book and the wisdom”, so how can he teach them if he is illiterate. By Allah, the Prophet (s) was able to read and write in 27 languages. He was told ummii just because he was from Mecca which is Ummul Qura; as Allah (swt) says in Qur’an: "and to warn by this book Ummul Qura and whatever surrounding it (6:92) (‘Elal al-Sharae’ by Shaikh al-Sadooq, and Tafseer Noor al-Thaqalain 2:78)

I tried to paste the image of the book on here but couldn’t get it done. If you send me your e-mail address I could send it to you for verification.

I am sure you must be having religious lectures as well – But don’t deny that mataam doesn’t take place there. We all have seen the pictures of people using chains and swords. I have attended one such function when very young.

Tell me how many Shias follow Hazrat Owais karni’ (ra)s example? I have yet to see young toothless Shias who have followed Hazrat Owais karni’s example.

I guess you forgot to address the questions asked here.

Let’s see what you have to say. This is going to be interesting to see how you deal with ayahs of the Quran. I am sure that your inherent hatred for the Companions (raa) of the Prophet (saw) will get you to ignore what the Quran has said about them. I can’t wait to see how you are going to wiggle out of this one.

We seem to be going in circles. I have already addressed the discrepancy in the translations at the following post.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=3286635&postcount=77

The translators have inserted into brackets the words which Imam (ra) never uttered just to enhance their stance for their ulterior motives.

Let me develop further the example I had given in my post # 77.

Supposing **Gupguupy ** says: **Texan Dude ** is a good man.

And I narrate it as follows: **Texan Dude ** is (supposed to be) a good man.

Do you get it now? I am objecting to the words that have being put into the brackets which were never uttered by Imam Ali (ra).

I had asked you to get an Arab to read letter 6 in Nahjul Balagha in original Arabic and let you know if the words put in the brackets were uttered my Imam Ali (ra) then come and talk about it. Have any shortage of Shia Arabs in Texas?

Now I am suffering from debate fatigue and will address the issues raised by you later.

Ameen to that.

94

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Are you trying to say nauzubillah Bibi Fatima was mistaken Astagfirullah… had she been mistaken… do you think Prophet would have given such a hadith… May Holy Prophet give you the ajarr for such accusations… nauzubillah… Incase you don’t know she was the pious personality and the only lady to represent woman..when it was asked to curse on liars… Had she not been truth full and infallible why didn’t Prophet take his wives… why did he chose Bibi Fatima S.A over his wives and Hazrat Ali A.S over all his companions when quran asked to have a mubahila where it was asked for muslims men, women and kids should come against issai aur yahudi (men, women and kids) I don’t remember exactly and they should pray to curse on liars.. even the non muslims were able to look at the purity and refused to have mubahila.. and nauzbillah you are mud-slinging the character and personality of such pious personality.. whose purity is menitoned in the following verse of Quran…

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.[33:33]

And you have guts to say nauzubillah she was mistaken.. How happy did you just made your Prophet P.B.U.H. I don’t know if I should pray that Allah and his Prophet give you the ajar to mud sling the pious personality of his beloved daughter or pray Allah show you the right path… you think if she was not that pious and righteous would Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. have given such a hadith… As far as fadak is concerned there are ayats of inheritance of Prophet in quran … i can quote it later if you want to get a bit of enlightnment… Fadak was given to Bibi Zehra S.A. by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. during his life time.. Abu Bakr had no right to take something which was gifted to her by Prophet and the income generated from the fadak most of it was used to help poor and needy… I can quote you the ayats from Quran on inheritance of Prophets.. How far will you go in your game of ignorance first you ignored Abu Bakr act by saying the hadith was said before Prophet died .and therefore doesnt apply to Abu Bakr… like the hadith’s of Prophet were meant to apply only during the time of Prophet.. and now you crossed the line by accusing a personality whose purity is acknowledged in the quran… subhan Allah…think before you ink buddy atleast.

Let me quote you what you said earlier:
“So I have done some research and am presenting you some narrations from your books which you hold very dear,”

Its amazing the way you worded it… as if it was some real authentic book which every shia knows about … had it been I am sure you would have find several websirte or hadith’s from it .. and all you could come up with is a scanned page that refers to the book… good job dude… is that all you could come up with for a book you claim to be very dear to us…that funny… doesn’t mention if the book is a authentic or what so ever just a paper which mentions the book dude had it been some near and dear book or had some authentic hadiths you should have atleast find anything about it in the following authentic shia website.. www.al-islam.org

you don’t need to email me just PM me…

Another ignorant reply… its not about teeth’s Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. didn’t stop a person who hurted himself in the love of Prophet…

Incase you are having a hard time digesting matam isn’t a bidah … read the following hadiths and please let me know if the references are not correct:

Sheikh Abdul Haq Mohaddis Hanafi Dehlavi who is regarded as one of the greatest Scholars of the Sunni Sect, describing the events at the fatal illnes of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) in his book ‘Modaarejun Nubuwwat’ vol II page 544 records:-

“Bilal emerged beating his head and loudly wailing (from the room of Aisha).”
Even in this case none of the companions raised any objection at the action of Bilal, the special Muezzin of the Prophet (s.a.w). Moreover, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) was yet alive and not dead.

As narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawalla)

*Abbas narrates: *

"I heard Aisha saying “The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women”.

Hmmm had it been a bidah.. its been practiced by so called Hazrat Ayesha…??? hmm are you gonna say she is doing a bidah???

http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/islam/0000103.php

hmm now getting back to what you quoted earlier…
"Tareweeh prayers were not the ‘invention’ of Hz. Umar al Khattab. It was started & performed by the Prophet (saw). Hz. Umar al Khattab (ra) just re-organised the prayers. "
And my question to you is quran clearly states the following during the life of Prophet :
“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)
When quran clearly states that Islam is perfect and complete why did Umar had a need to re-organize the techings of Prophet.. and how does it not feet the definition of bidat…Why was there a need for re-organization.. did Umar have doubts of islam being perfect and complete???
how about answering the question that beating around the bush by bringing matam in which by the context of what I posted above is certainly not bidah and had been practiced during the time of Prophet…

Its getting real late … I’ll read whatever you have said and answer later…

Whatever man… Just to make you happy I’ll look up in an urdu translation I have at my convenience…but assuming even if we follow your so called interpretation… how do you answer the following question…
Mawiya coming to war against Hazrat Ali A.S. the Ameer ul Momineen… and leading to blood shed of many muslims… why did he go against him… when based on the context of translation we both agreed on he had no right to do so.. he did .. and you people regard him as Ameer ul Momineen even though quran states the following verse…:???
“And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)

Also what do you have to say about this sermon taken from the same book you quote the letter from…
If had I attempted to pluck the unripe fruit of Caliphate then by this the orchard would have been desolated and I too would have achieved nothing, like these people who cultivate on other’s land but can neither guard it, nor water it at proper time, nor reap any crop from it. The position of these people is that if I ask them to vacate it so that the owner should cultivate it himself and protect it, they say how greedy I am, while if I keep quiet they think I am afraid of death. They should tell me on what occasion did I ever feel afraid, or flew from battle-field for life, whereas every small or big encounter is proof of my bravery and a witness to my daring and courage. He who plays with swords and strikes against hillocks is not afraid of death. I am so familiar with death that even an infant is not so familiar with the breast of its mother. Hark! The reason for my silence is the knowledge that the Prophet has put in my bosom. If I divulge it you would get perplexed and bewildered. Let some days pass and you would know the reason of my inaction, and perceive with your own eyes what sorts of people would appear on this scene under the name of Islam, and what destruction they would bring about. My silence is because this would happen, otherwise it is not silence without reason."

95

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

**Texan Dude ** - Verse (33:33) is an integral part of the same narration contained in verses from (33:28-34).

You have taken just verse 33:33 and applied it solely to Hz. Fatimah (ra)??!!??

If this was done deliberately, it is unforgivable. You are playing with ayahs of Quran. You need to ask for repentance. If it was done by mistake then ask for forgiveness.

See for yourself, verse33:28 & 33:29 is addressed to the Prophet (saw).

O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this World, and its glitter,- then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner. 33:28

But if ye seek Allah and His Messenger, and the Home of the Hereafter, verily Allah has prepared for the well-doers amongst you a great reward. 33:29

From verses 33:30 to 33:32 Allah (swt) is directly addressing the Prophet (saw)’s wives [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all]

O Consorts of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the Punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah. 33:30

But any of you that is devout in the service of Allah and His Messenger, and works righteousness,- to her shall We grant her reward twice: and We have prepared for her a generous Sustenance. 33:31

**O Consorts of the Prophet! ** Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just. 33:32

Verse33:33 is still directly addressing the Prophet (saw)’s wives [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all] and later includes the all noble members of the Prophet (saw)’s family collectively [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all] by saying “ye members of the Family”

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. 33:33

Verse 33:34 is addressed to all the noble members of the Prophet (saw)’s family collectively [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all]

And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah understands the finest mysteries and is well-acquainted (with them). 33:34

My advice to you Texan Dude is to be very careful when quoting ayahs from the Quran. Do full justice to what Allah (swt) is saying and not what fits your agenda!

Let’s see how you do justice to the Qurannic ayahs in favour of Prophet (saw)’s Companions [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all]

I am quoting myself from the previous posts.

We will take it further after your response and I will address points raised by you in your last post.

British juror arrested after listening to music under hijab
96

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Himm I didn’t say its solely from Fatima and if you want we can debate on that for hours also who is in it and who is not… but for sure being the daughter of Prophet P. B.U.H Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A is included in it and she is pure… Ask Allah for forgiveness or pray May Allah and his Prophet give you the ajar to insult the charcter of this pious personality… do you have any answer if nauzubillah she wasnt Pious why did Prophet chose her over all his wives… when it come to pray to curse the liars , he chose her over all the ladies and Hazrat Ali over all his companions, Imam Hassan and Imam Husasin… and you think you have the nerve to say such a pious personality was nauzubillah mistaken.. could you be any more ignorant… answer this question.. how could she be mistaken when she is pious in the light of Quran and also the fact that she was chose over all the ladies when it come to mubahila…the fact that Prophet chose her shows it was also Allah’s will because Prophet won’t have chosen her.. do you have any answers to justify the accusation … Please answer this that just play ignorant and start posting bunch of ayats… I want to clarify this with you first before we move on… just so I can remember you in my prayers to seek forgiveness or pray to Prophet to give you the ajjar for insulting such a pious personality..this is the worst of what you have said…nauzubillah she was mistaken and than playing ignorant … I want justification to above before we move on…

Also if you have nerve can you also clarify what right does Abu Bakr have to take a gift that was awarded to Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. and claim it to be inheritance.. and if it was why did he go for materialistic thing.. Prophet P.B.U.H. also gifted her kaneez why didn’t he take her back too…???

[quote=“Ibn Sadique”]
Let’s see how you do justice to the Qurannic ayahs inavour of Prophet (saw)’s Companions [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all]

First claify the above the propoganda and accusations you have posted against the noble lady .. I want to clarify that before and than post the ayats again and I would comment on it… I know you have nothing to justify the fact that your own books tell Umar introduced bidah …and what did Prophet said about the companions who introduced bidah.. … also if you could also clarify the sermon I quoted earlier…

Now before we move on clarify what you said regarding such a pious personality… Astagfirullah… and no don’t come up with excuses like you came up last time by just quotingl.. I need your clarification regarding Bibi Fatima.. was she mistaken or was it Abu Bakr who made her angry… Could Prophet have said such a big hadith.. if nauzubillah she was not pious and right… **the fact that Prophet gave that hadith.. It was according the Allah’s will since Prophet don’t say anything against Akkag will.. Now are you gonna say Nauzubillah Allah SWT didnt know she is not pious and you have the brains to figure it out… **how far can you go on playing with your game of ignorant…and mud sling on the character of such a high personality… just to defend someone who according to your own books made Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H angry… I need an answer not your twisted up arguments… this is the worst of you I have seen… and I can’t wait for a clarification…

97

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

The fact that Quran witnesses Bibi Fatima S.A purity and Allah SWT made Prophet give such a hadith.. isn't it enough for your smart brain to figure out who is righteous and who is in greed of wealth.... could you be any more ignorant Mr... **
**First your ignorant brain come up with an excuse that hadith should not apply to Abu Bakr because the Prophet his dead...
Second time you just ignored the ayats and hadith of Prophet and went as far to say that nauzubillah she was mistaken... even though quran also testifies that Prophet's leave inheritance...

Boy How ignorant can you be

98

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

*Texan Dude * I have noted down what you have said. I appreciate your defence of Hz. Fatimah (ra) and your reward for it is with Allah (swt) - Insha'Allah. I am rather busy for a day [life away from computer] and will get back soon. Keep your cool, we don't this thread to get locked up, do we?

99

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

Texan Dude – You should know that we, Sunnis take only the Prophet (saw) to be infallible and no one else. We don’t take Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) Hz. Umar (ra), Hz. Uthman (ra), Hz. Ali (ra), Hz. Fatimah (ra) Hz. Aisha (ra) to be infallible. That doesn’t mean that they committed sins or were negligent in practicing Islam. We take them all to be the best examples to be followed. To us they are Humans and can make mistakes, but not with intent.

Quran only vouches for the infallibility of the Prophet (saw) and no one else.
Taking Hz. Ali, Hz. Fatimah, Hz. Hassan and Hz. Hussein [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all] in mubahila doesn’t prove their infallibility. I think at the time of mubahila the Prophet (saw) had nine wives *, do you expect him to bring All his blessed wives [raa] out too.

He (saw) brought out part of his family to show his serious intent for mubahila.
If you see the ayah relating to mubahila it states our women, so I can safely say that Hz. Fatimah (ra) represented all the women of the Prophet’s Ahlul Bayt [Household].

If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Had come to thee, say: “Come! Let us gather together, - our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!” - 3:61

I don’t want to discuss about Fadak here. I have found a nice article on Fadak and have post it on GS
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?p=3294062&posted=1#post3294062

The book in question is authored by Al-Shaikh al-Saduq – who earned this title “on account of his great learning and his reputation for truthfulness”. He was born with the prayers of the Hidden Imam and al-Husain b. Rawh.

Check the link below:

He is also author of famous Shia book - Man la yahduruh al-faqih.
So it has somehow upset you that I called the book written by this learned scholar of yours as “which you hold very dear.”

You are getting very touchy. Should I have said, “The book that is not dear to you?” I thought that you will respect anything coming from Al-Shaikh al-Saduq – I guess I was wrong. May be, just that Hz. Fatimah (ra) was angry with Hz. Ali (ra) rattled you a bit in fact quite a lot judging from your reaction.

Just to placate your sensitivities I take my words about the book which you hold dear. Happy?

For the benefit of the viewers I have got the following on Al-Shaikh al-Saduq to his authority within Shia.

Al-Shaikh al-Saduq is the title given to Abu Ja’far Muhammad b. 'Ali ibn Babawaih al Qummi. He was the leading traditionist of his time (4th Century A.H.) and one of the most outstanding traditionists of Shi’ite Islam. He earned the title of al-Shaikh al-Saduq on account of his great learning and his reputation for truthfulness. It is a title which he also shares with his father.

The date of al-Shaikh al-Saduq’s birth is not known exactly. However an interesting story surrounds the circumstances of his birth. When his father was in Iraq, he met Abul Qasim al-Husain b. Rawh, the third agent of the Hidden Imam. During their meeting he asked the latter several questions. Later he wrote to al-Husain b. Rawh asking him to take a letter to the Hidden Imam. In this letter he asked for a son. Al-Husain sent back an answer telling him that they (the Hidden Imam and al-Husain) had prayed to God to ask Him to grant the request and he would be rewarded with two sons. Another version of the story says three sons. The elder, or eldest, of these sons was Muhammad, that is al-Shaikh al-Saduq, our author.

http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/saduq-howard.htm

100

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

**Another ignorant reply... its not about teeth's Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. didn't stop a person who hurted himself in the love of Prophet...
Incase you are having a hard time digesting matam isn't a bidah ... read the following hadiths and please let me know if the references are not correct:
Sheikh Abdul Haq Mohaddis Hanafi Dehlavi who is regarded as one of the greatest Scholars of the Sunni Sect, describing the events at the fatal illnes of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) in his book 'Modaarejun Nubuwwat' vol II page 544 records:-

"Bilal emerged beating his head and loudly wailing (from the room of Aisha)."
Even in this case none of the companions raised any objection at the action of Bilal, the special Muezzin of the Prophet (s.a.w). Moreover, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) was yet alive and not dead.

As narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawalla)
Abbas narrates: "I heard Aisha saying "The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women".
Hmmm had it been a bidah.. its been practiced by so called Hazrat Ayesha...??? hmm are you gonna say she is doing a bidah????**

What you are stating is immediate reaction of any human on hearing terrible news. This action ‘lasts’ for a few hours or so until the person comes out the initial shock. The action of Hz. Bilal (ra) and that of Hz. Aisha (ra) was the same after knowing of Prophet’s demise.

They did not make an annul ‘Chest beating and face slapping’ event!
Do have any record of it being repeated every year from then on?

Don’t tell me that you are following sunnah of Hz. Aisha (ra)!

Why not hold Mataam in honour of Prophet’s death?

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hmm now getting back to what you quoted earlier....
"Tareweeh prayers were not the ‘invention’ of Hz. Umar al Khattab. It was started & performed by the Prophet (saw). Hz. Umar al Khattab (ra) just re-organised the prayers. "
And my question to you is quran clearly states the following during the life of Prophet :
"Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Qur'an 5:3)
When quran clearly states that Islam is perfect and complete why did Umar had a need to re-organize the techings of Prophet.. and how does it not feet the definition of bidat...Why was there a need for re-organization.. did Umar have doubts of islam being perfect and complete?????
how about answering the question that beating around the bush by bringing matam in which by the context of what I posted above is certainly not bidah and had been practiced during the time of Prophet...
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Got it from a knowledgeable friend of mine and should make matters quite clear to you if you remove your bias-tainted glasses
“First of all let me it clear that Taraweeh prayers, by Ijmaa' of the scholars, is a "Sunnah", not "Fardh".
We have an authentic Hadith which tells us that the Prophet [saw] prayed it at the Mosque for three nights, or stopped at the 3rd night out of fear it becomes mandatory on them and some may not bear it.

On the death of the Prophet (saw) revelation ends, and the Faith is complete. No Muslim in the world disputes the fact that Taraweeh is a Nafl prayer legislated by the act of the Messenger [saw]. If one prays it with a congregation, the Prophet (saw) has done it, and if prayed alone, the Prophet (saw) has done it too.

The fact that the Companions (raa) where praying this Nafl in groups at the Prophet (saw)'s Mosque, each lead by an Imam is another established fact. Now, if a group of five is praying together, no one would say an additional person joining them would make the Prayer invalid. In like manner, if we keep adding more persons to this group, it would not invalidate the prayer if all present at the mosque prayed behind the said Imam. What Amirul-Mu'mineen Omar [ra] did was no more than that. He gathered them behind Ubay bin Ka'b [ra] whose recitation of Qur'an was the best.

The Shi'a argue that it should not be prayed in Congregation. But if a man can pray the Nafl at home leading his wife and children, what makes it Haram to have his brother join them too? If, nothing prevents that, why not a friend who is present also? If this cannot be proven to be Haram, what makes it Haram if prayed at the mosque, knowing that the reward received at the mosque is higher than the home?”

Let’s make a deal: Sunni’s dutifully observe Taraweeh prayers in Ramadan; and Shias can carry on with Mataam (Lectures and all other items on the normal agenda)

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Himm I didn't say its solely from Fatima and if you want we can debate on that for hours also who is in it and who is not.... but for sure being the daughter of Prophet P. B.U.H Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A is included in it and she is pure... Ask Allah for forgiveness or pray May Allah and his Prophet give you the ajar to insult the charcter of this pious personality... do you have any answer if nauzubillah she wasnt Pious why did Prophet chose her over all his wives... when it come to pray to curse the liars , he chose her over all the ladies and Hazrat Ali over all his companions, Imam Hassan and Imam Husasin... and you think you have the nerve to say such a pious personality was nauzubillah mistaken.. could you be any more ignorant... answer this question.. how could she be mistaken when she is pious in the light of Quran and also the fact that she was chose over all the ladies when it come to mubahila...the fact that Prophet chose her shows it was also Allah's will because Prophet won't have chosen her.. do you have any answers to justify the accusation
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The way you quoted the ayah out of context omitting out mention of the Prophet’s wives was very suspicious.

If you see the ayah relating to mubahila it states our women, so I can safely say that Hz. Fatimah (ra) represented all the women of the Prophet’s Ahlul Bayt [Household].

If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Had come to thee, say: "Come! Let us gather together, - our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!" - 3:61