Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
excuses, excuses, use your simple mind to try again
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Gupguppy,
This guy is an NRI, a cyber soorma fighting for the cause of hinduvta…having lofty expectations of him would be highly naive…
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
[quote=“Ibn Sadique”]
Texan Dude
I will respond after you have completed adding whatever is still left over.
Another LIE to ignore the facts and truth… DUDE ARE YOU TELL me so far I have been posting from my own books… HELLO wake up MR.** jhoot bolney keh hadd kardey…** YOU ARE LYING ON MY FACE AND ON THE FACE OF OTHER GUPPIES WHO HAVE BEEN READING MY POST… IF YOU ARE HAVING HARD TIME ACCEPTING THE TRUTH… ATLEAST DON’T LIE TO COOK UP EXCUSES.. yeah I did quoted a few of sermons from Najul Balagah… and the only reason I did was because you brought it up… you quoted a sermon and took parts of it and left the other… huh typical off sunnis like you.. and thats the reason i quoted the whole sermon to show you black and white.. incase you have missed the post you replied go and read the hadith’s I have posted they are from your books… boy i donno are you even worth talking… wonder how much more lies you have been saying or have told before…
**Just to justify and SHOW YOU HOW BIG OF A LIAR YOU ARE… IN YOUR STRUGGLE TO ACCEPT TRUTH…LET ME QUOTE YOU SOME HADITH’S I HAVE QUOTED WITH SUNNI REFERENCES.. AND NOT ONLY THAT I HAVE ASKED YOU TO VERIFY AND LET ME NO IF THEY ARE WRONG.. **
here is one.. you have been sweting on this hadith..and still failed to come up WITH 12 NAMES and not only that you also admitted that not all the caliphs were righteous… Let me quote it the hadith along with references Mr.
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the twelve men, all of them from Quraysh.”
Sunni References:
Sahih Muslim (Arabic version)
Kitab al-Imaara,
1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia,
v3, p1453, Tradition #6
Sahih Muslim, (English version)
Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraysh and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraysh),
v3, p1010, Tradition #4478
Hadith #3394 (numbering of al-'Alamiyyah)
Following the hadith you sweted on so much but failed to justify your claim.. and when no luck you just turned you back and accusing me that I am quoting stuff from my books… Alrite nwo are you denying Sahih Muslim is your book.. how many more games of twist are you gonna play Mr.
Following is one more hadith I quoted from no book other than Sahih Bukhari…(used to be one of the authentic sunni books until today or should I say it failed to meet Ibn Sadique interests)
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.375
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
… The Prophet said to the Ansar: “You will find after me some great
selfishness (UTHRAH). Then be patient till you meet Allah and meet His
Apostle at al-Kauthar (i.e. a fount in Paradise).” (Anas added:) But
we did not remain patient.
Incase you missed it I asked the following question after quoting the hadith
TELL ME WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO DIDN’T HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE FIRST 3 CALIPHS WHO FOR THEIR GREED OF KHILAFAT LEFT THE FUNERAL SERVICES OF THE BELOVED PROPHET P.B.U.H. AND WHEN HAZRAT ALI A.S BECAME KHALEEFA EVEN THOUGH HE MADE IT CLEAR BEFORE THAT HE IS NOT GOING TO FOLLOW ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES QURAN AND SUNNAH.. THEY GO AGAINST SUCH A WISE CALIPH…AND NOT ONLY THAT MAWIYAH WHO CAME TO FIGHT AGAINST HAZRAT ALI A.S (AMEER UL MOMINEEN) FOR THIS GREED OF KHILAFAT THEY EVEN REGARD HIM HAS AMEER UL MOMINEEN..WHY DON’T YOU GUYS REGARD YAZEED AS NAUZUBILLAH AMEER UL MOMINEEN HE DID THE SAME THING HIS DAD did.. CAME TO WAR AGAINST SON OF HAZRAT ALI..THE FIRST TWO CALIPHS LEFT THE FUNERAL OF PROPHET MOHAMMAD P.B.U.H. in the greed of khilafat…YAZEED ARMY KILLED IMAM HUSSAIN AND HIS FAMILY AND LEFT THEM IN THE LAND OF KERBALA FOR THE GREED OF THIS KHILAFAT…CAN’T YOU SEE FOR YOURSELF HOW MESSED UP YOU BELIEVES ARE???
Incase if you still not convinced let me quote you another hadith that I quoted from no other than your used to be book Sahih Bukhari to show who was righteous in Jamal…
Bukhari has recorded in the chapter “What happened in the houses of the Prophet’s wives” in the book “Jihad and Travel” of his Sahih, vol. 2, p. 125, that while delivering an address from the pulpit, the Holy Prophet pointed towards A-isha’s house and said: “Here lies the scandal; here lies the scandal; here lies the scandal, where the horn of Shaytan would be rising.” In the words of Sahih Muslim: "The Prophet came out of the house of A-isha and remarked: “Here is the head of infidelity where the horn of Shaytan will rise.” Refer to Sahih Muslim, vol. 2,0.502.
Not only that I also used Quran reference to justify this claim.
Now I hope you won’t claim.. that nauzubillah I have quoted the above ayats from some shia quran that is not of any relevence to you?
Here are two more hadith’s that I quoted from no other than Sahih Bukhari:
“Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.”
References:
Sunni references:
- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111
- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5
And now read what Bibi Ayesha has to say
al-Bukhari narrated on the authority of
Aisha that:
… Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did
not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after
the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her
at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by
himself.
Sunni references: - Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of “The battle of Khaibar”, Arabic-English,
v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition 325
Here is another hadith I quoted.. for which you tried to come up with an excuse too but failed to realize it was also from no other than your own books..
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.586
Narrated Ibn al-Musaiyab:
“**Some men from my companions **will come to my Lake-Fount and they will
be driven away from it, and I will say, ‘O Lord, my companions!’ It
will be said, 'You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you
left: they turned APOSTATE as renegades (reverted from true Islam).”
(also Sahih Muslim, part 10, p64, also P59)
Hmm I quoted you stuff from Sahih Bukhari and you rejected it… let me quote your own words again…
On the other side you said the book has no relevance for me… dude I don’t what to say… I must say why bother quoting from them when like you said it has no authority for you… nor to you it have any relevance for me… HERE IS A BIT OF ADVICE SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE.. you have made it quite clear you can get to the point that you’ll start lying to ignore the facts… its not worth it man…
Give me some time to read on your questions…inshallah I’ll answer you than.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
I admit, you aren’t copy-and-pasting when you write gibberish with childish English and poor spelling… as soon as you switch to ‘Caps Lock’ mode, that’s another matter… 
Okay, we are now in ‘Caps Lock’ mode…
Abu Bakr was in al Sanah when Allah’s Messenger (saw) passed away and on his return he was the one who reassured the thronging crowds with his now famous speech (al Bukhari 5:18). It was Abu Bakr who resolved the dispute over where the Prophet (saw) should be buried, invoking the hadith that Prophets are buried where they die (Muwatta Imam Malik).
Allah’s Messenger (saw) passed away in the arms of Abu Bakr’s daughter, Aisha, in her house (al Bukhari 2:471). Abu Bakr was privileged by being buried alongside the Prophet (saw), an honour shared only by Umar ibn al Khattab, in conformity with a dream of Aisha’s in which she saw three moons fall into her house. When the Prophet (saw) died and was buried in her home Abu Bakr said to her, “This is one of your moons, and he is the best of them.” (Muwatta Imam Malik)
al Rahiq al Makhtum, p.482, mentions that after the Prophet’s (saw) death **"People entered the room ten by ten. They prayed for the Prophet (saw). The first to pray for him were the people of his clan. Then the Emigrants, then the Helpers. Women prayed for him after men. The young were the last to pray”. **Imam Malik says in his al-Muwatta that **“People prayed over him individually with no one leading them.” **So which companion is it that didn’t pray for him?
More selective shi-ite quotes… the reference to Aisha’s house (who elsewhere in the same works – al Bukhari and Muslim - is confirmed as the most loved of people to the Prophet (saw)) is merely to indicate the direction in which the Prophet (saw) gestured, not that he meant thereby her house or Aisha herself… if shi-ites bothered to quote the totality of the reports on this specific matter (including others in al Bukhari as well) one would see that the Prophet (saw) was describing that fitna (and trials and earthquakes) would arise from the East and in other reports he is more specific when he mentions the direction of Najd/Iraq… how despicable of shi-ites to suggest with utter shamelessness that the horns of shaytan will rise from the very place where the Prophet (saw) himself is buried…
Already answered… Regarding those who will come to the Prophet (saw) at his Lake-Fount… one should keep in mind how the Prophet (saw) described them… in a number of narrations (including in Sahih al Bukhari) he called them* ‘asayhabi’* (not just, ‘ashabi’)… this is particularly revealing since as commentators point out this term shows them to be few in number… hence this turns the shi-ite argument on its head… shi-ites insist that most of the Prophet’s (saw) companions died as apostates, save a few believers, which is in direct contradiction of this hadith from al Bukhari which the very same shi-ites gleefully cite little realising that it destroys their own position!
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
^ Jazakallah khayraan gupguppy - great reply
Texan Dude
To my following statement:
I got the following reaction from you:
Sorry the mistake is from my side, I should have phrased it better. [Let’s blame it to the stale coffee that I was drinking.] The sentence should have read as “So far regarding Hz. Ali’s (ra) right to Khilafaat you have been just quoting stuff from your own books which have no ‘authority’ for me (and other Muslims) to believe in.
And this was referring to the following your quotation from Nahjul Balagha
I am aware that you have quoted many hadith form Sunni source and I and others have addressed them to best of our knowledge. You don’t really have to ‘buy’ the answers we dish out to you.
Now back to the Sermon 5 from Nahjul Balagha that you have quoted above (“If had I attempted to pluck the unripe fruit of Caliphate then by this the orchard would have been desolated and I too would have achieved nothing, like these people who cultivate on other’s land but can neither guard it,”)
I had answered it by quoting Letter 6 from Nahjul Balagha for you where Hz.Ali (ra) has clearly stated that the election of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra) was as per approval and pleasure of Allah.
Please answer this question; How Hz. can Ali (ra) lay claim to Khilaafat in sermon 5 and then in the letter 6 claim that the election of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra) was as per approval and pleasure of Allah?
Well just to please you I am going to quote the Letter 6 from Nahjul Balagha in full – Tell me if it made any difference to you.
*Verily, those who took the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me. Now those who were present at the election have no right to go back against their oaths of allegiance and those who were not present on the occasion have no right to oppose me. And so far as Shura (limited franchise or selection) was concerned it was supposed to be limited to Muhajirs and Ansars and it was also supposed that whomsoever they selected, became caliph as per approval and pleasure of Allah. If somebody goes against such decision, then he should be persuaded to adopt the course followed by others, and if he refuses to fall in line with others, then war is the only course left open to be adopted against him and as he has refused to follow the course followed by the Muslims, Allah will let him wander in the wilderness of his ignorance and schism.
O Mu’awiya! I am sure that if you give up self-aggrandizement and self-interest, if you forsake the idea of being alive only to personal profits and pleasures, if you cease to be actuated solely by selfishness and if you ponder over the incident leading to the murder of Uthman, you will realize that I cannot at all be held responsible for the affair and I am the least concerned with the episode. But it is a different thing that you create all these false rumours and carry on this heinous propaganda to gain your ulterior motives. Well you may do whatever you like.*
I had only the relevant part to show that Hz. Ali (ra) considered the election of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra) was as per approval and pleasure of Allah!
I had left ended the quotation with **…………………. ** Showing that there is more of it which as been left out.
Sorry if you thought that I was up to some tricks.
Texan Dude - I think it would be better if we deal with one issue at a time. We will come to the other issues raised by you once one issue has been discussed and done with. It is difficult to answer all the points raised by you in one post. Even the viewers will get fatigued reading long posts.
I don’t promise that I will to be able to answer all the questions raised by you. There are other very knowledgeable Guppies here who will answer your queries.
My contention about Sermon 5 from Nahjul Balagha is that Hz. Ali never reminded the people he was addressing about his ‘appointment’ as the successor to the Prophet (saw) at Khum Ghadeer.
Wasn’t this the most appropriate time to say what Allah (swt) had ordained the Prophet (saw) to do?
I think I did answer it. Maybe not to your satisfaction.
I had stated that the Prophet (saw) had not named any of the 12 men from Quraish who will govern the affairs of the Ummah. Accept for Imam Mahdi (ra).
If you are implying that these 12 men refers to the 12 Imams of Ithna ‘ashariyah Shias then you are grossly mistaken.
Read the words again. “as long as they are **governed ** by the twelve men, all of them from Quraysh."
To govern one must have political authority!
Tell me apart from Hz. Ali (ra) and partially (six months or so) Hz. Hassan bin Ali (ra) which of your 12 Imams (ra) had the political authority.
None. We, Sunnis take them to men of knowledge and great teachers. Apart form Hz. Hussien bin Ali (ra) none of the Shia Imams ‘picked up the sword’ and kept away from politics and devoted their time in pursuit and spreading of Islamic knowledge.
You can read about the Sunni views about ‘Shia Imams’ at the following thread.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=133174&highlight=Shia+Imams
This is your thread and if it’s nor worth your while talking to me just say so and I will leave without a whimper.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
That doesn’t answer my question… Was he there while Hazrat Ali A.S. was performing ghuzl for Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H… and when he was performing the funeral services of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H… was he there on that occasion or was he there in Sakeefa on the greed of khilafat… Was khilafat more important to him than funeral of Prophet…???
Hmm nice try… but still that doesn’t justify the fact that Bibi Aisha disobeyed Quran and led a war causing blood shed of alot of muslims… Incase you missed it let me requote it for you…
O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech.[33"32]
And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.[32:33]
The first command in this verse “stay in your houses” was violated by A-isha when she went to Iraq to organise a mischievous campaign against Ali about whom the Holy Prophet said:
“O Ali, you are to me as Harun was to Musa. You are my brother in this world and the hereafter. Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and me are from one and the same light.”
[size=2]Quran clearly asks the wives of Prophet to stay at her house..and she disobeyed it to come to war against Hazrat Ali A.S. Now tell me who was righteous and who wasn’t.
Now let me quote you another ayat of Quran
“And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)
Not that I want to argue.. but hadith doesn’t mention that all companions ??? Also, are you gonna deny while the funeral services of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. were being performed some companions in the greed of khilafat left such a honorable service and met in Sakeefa to decide on the khilafat issue… **Now tell me if the issue of khilafat was so important than the funeral services of Prophet won’t Prophet have mentioned about it… **Let me quote you the hadith again… incase you have missed it..
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”
www.al-islam.org/ghadir
NICE TRY AGAIN MR… ANOTHER BUNCH OF LAME EXCUSES… before I quoted the hadith I made it quite Clear that the above reference is from no other than your own books… NOW CARE TO ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTION…
1. If he fitna mentioned in the hadith is for Iraq… Why DID Mr. Bukhari narrated this hadith in the chapter "What happened in the houses of the Prophet’s wives" in the book “Jihad and Travel” of his Sahih, vol. 2, p. 125,
Why did he had to include this in the chapther name what happened in the houses of the Prophet’s wives… I mean what does Najd/Iraq have to do with houses of Prophet’s wives… Nice try to twist the hadith’s but all you said doesn’t fit the context… just shows your struggle to ignore the facts… Well you were able to twist the hadith..what do you say about the quranic ayat I quoted… is Bibi Ayesha exempted from it???
Nice try to blame it on shias for things thats in your own books… Let me reword what you said above based on hadiths from your own books…to clarify the things better…
" how despicable of Bukhari to suggest with utter shamelessness that the horns of shaytan will rise from the very place where Ayesha lives"
Dude I am glad you brought it up… thats the sad part of all… we had the righteous Imam but they didn’t get to govern… and thats the reason muslim ummah is facing so may problems… split in 72 sects… YOU sunnis call Hazrat Ali as Ameer ul Momineen and the person who came Hazrat Ali A.S mawiya is also regarded as Ameer ul Momineen… and on top of it a lady who came against the Ameer ul Momineen not to mention disobeying the ayats of Quran i quoted above… you people made her Umul Omineen… wow how messed up isn’t it??? Not to mention people like Yazeed also became khaleefa after killing the family of Prophet… In compare the 12 Imams I mentioned were a good soucre of knowledge… they didn’t contradict each others… Imam Mahdi A.S. is one of them…You don’t want to imply "The affairs of people were conducted welll do you..with ummah going through such crisis.. people like Yazeed become khaleefas…
In response to your other question.. I haven’t gotten a chance to read on them give me sometime and inshallahi’ll answer you than.[/size]
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Do you deny that Hz. A’isha (ra) is Umm ul Mu’mineen (mother of the Believers) when Allah Himself has mentioned her in the Qur’an as the mother of the believers?
No, it is not messed up; we have to follow the Quran.
The Prophet is closer to the believers than their selves, and his wives are (as) their mothers. And the owners of kinship are closer one to another in the ordinance of Allah than (other) believers and the fugitives (who fled from Mecca), except that ye should do kindness to your friends. This is written in the Book (of nature). - 33:6
Just out of interest what do you think of the people who:
-
Migrated from Makkah to Madinah for sake of Islam?
-
Accommodated and helped those who had migrated to Madinah?
-
Participated in battle of Badr?
-
And those who gave allegiance under the tree (during the event of Hudaybiyyah)?
What does the Quran has to say about them? If you care to tell us.
It will be interesting too to hear how you interpret the Letter 6 from Nahjul Balagha, especially the highlighted bits.
Verily, those who took the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me. Now those who were present at the election have no right to go back against their oaths of allegiance and those who were not present on the occasion have no right to oppose me.
**And so far as Shura (limited franchise or selection) was concerned it was supposed to be limited to Muhajirs and Ansars and it was also supposed that whomsoever they selected, became caliph as per approval and pleasure of Allah. **
If somebody goes against such decision, then he should be persuaded to adopt the course followed by others, and if he refuses to fall in line with others, then war is the only course left open to be adopted against him and as he has refused to follow the course followed by the Muslims, Allah will let him wander in the wilderness of his ignorance and schism.
I reply to your other queries later.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Whats you point… I don’t get it where are you getting from there.???
Exactly which sermon are you referring too… I couldnt find it on the following website… Can you please tell me which of the sermons below are you referring too.
http://www.al-islam.org/nahj/
Care to give references in light of Quran and hadith’s where did you learn that from… Are you saying Nauzubillah since yazeed killed Imam hussain to become khaleefa… everyone is supposed to follow him???
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
I asked you a very simple question about your stance about the following people:
-
Migrated from Makkah to Madinah for sake of Islam?
-
Accommodated and helped those who had migrated to Madinah?
-
Participated in battle of Badr?
-
And those who gave allegiance under the tree (during the event of Hudaybiyyah)?
What does the Quran has to say about them? If you care to tell us.
Don’t worry, it’s not a trick question.
It is letter No 6 from Nahjul Balagha – and you have been looking at the sermons.
Here’s the short-cut to it on the site of your preference.
http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/letters/letter6.htm#letter6
You can even read the accompanied commentary on the letter 6 on the same page.
[The following is a letter to Mu’awiya and in it Imam Ali (a) has used the same principle that he applied on Talha and Zubayr. Imam Ali (a) in this letter has raised all the points which were once quoted against him. He says if an election on the basis of general franchise is the criterion to decide such a caliphate, then general election took place to elect him the Caliph and nobody can deny this fact, and if limited franchise (Shura) was the criterion then those who represented this group (Muhajirs and Ansars) were amongst those who elected him and therefore even according to the rules formulated by opponents of Imam Ali (a) his election was lawful, regular and bonafide. Thus no Muslim has a right to speak or act against him. ]
Note how vilely the commentators have omitted the following words of Imam Ali (ra): “became caliph as per approval and pleasure of Allah.”
To my query “how you interpret the Letter 6 from Nahjul Balagha, especially the highlighted bits.
I got the follow the following reaction from you.
??? Dude I don’t know why you are querying these words!
These word are part of the letter 6 authored by Imam Ali (ra). Do you question Imam Ali (ra) why he wrote such words? You got some guts!
After we have cleared the above queries we will attempt to discuss about Hz. Aisha (ra), Hz. Muawiyah (ra) and Yazid bin Muawiyah. Let’s clear the above points first.
By the way do you now agree that Hz. A’isha (ra) is Umm ul Mu’mineen (mother of the Believers)?
And to hold such view one is complying to the commands of the Quran?
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
How many people do you want at the blessed ghusl ceremony?.. that the ghusl was left to the Prophet’s (saw) near relatives is reasonable and entirely respectful… the companions thereafter joined together in paying their own last respects… it required Abu Bakr’s presence to resolve the dispute over where the burial should take place… no one person led the funeral rites, everyone prayed individually as Imam Malik said…
pull the other one
the report says people entered “ten by ten”… already this gives us more companions than today’s shi-ites have any respect for… in fact, this is cited as one of the reasons for the delay in burying the Prophet (saw)… if there were many people keen to pay their last respects, as one would expect, it would naturally take time if they only entered the room in groups of ten…
In case you missed it, this has already been answered…
Hey, and don’t forget the reports…
“Allah and the faithful do not substantiate the claim of anyone but that of Abu Bakr” (Muslim, 5879)
“If you should not find me, then go to Abu Bakr” (al Bukhari, 9:459)
because like your colleagues here you can’t think beyond your copy-and-paste sources you only make life easy for anyone who has actually read the works you pretend to quote from…
firstly, Bukhari doesn’t cite this in the book “Jihad and Travel”, he cites it in the book “Al Khumus (War Booty)”… secondly, the chapter heading isn’t “What happened in the houses of the Prophet’s wives” but (as Muhsin Khan renders it) is more appropriately translated, “What has been said regarding the houses of the wives of the Prophet (saw)”, since what happens inside their houses isn’t always the subject of the hadith in this section… (for example, the third hadith under the same chapter heading is about Safiyya, with no mention of her house, and Umm Salima with again no mention of her house per se except the door and certainly no mention of what happens “inside” her house)…
therefore for al Bukhari to include the hadith under discussion under this chapter heading isn’t farfetched since one of the wives’ houses are referred to even though it is simply as an indication of the direction in which the Prophet (saw) pointed… anyone who knows anything about al Bukhari’s methodology in collecting hadith will be aware that he often cites the same hadith under various chapters even if the relationship between the hadith and the heading is sometimes incidental… the very first hadith in Sahih al Bukhari is another case in point… look it up
suffice to say that no Sunni commentator has understood from this hadith that the Prophet (saw) was referring to Aisha’s house or Aisha herself. Unlike shi-ite haters of the Prophet’s (saw) family and companions, such commentators were obliged by their sense of fairness to take all the various reports of this narration into consideration… the only right minded conclusion one can draw is that the Prophet (saw) was gesturing towards the East, and more specifically in the direction of Najd/Iraq as the totality of the reports explain…
Bukhari records the near-same hadith under the heading, ‘The trials are from the East’… so think about it!
And hey, since you are so fond of the chapter you first cited (‘What has been said regarding the houses…’), i’m sure you’ll be happy to know that al Bukhari quotes a few more hadith in the same section… two of which read…
Aisha: “When the illness of Allah’s Messenger (saw) became aggravated, he asked permission of his (other) wives that he should be treated in my house and they permitted it.” (al Bukhari, 4:331)
Aisha: “Abdul Rahman came with a miswak and the Prophet (saw) was too weak to use it so I took it, chewed it, and then he cleaned his teeth with it (which Aisha also described by saying, “Allah made my saliva mix with his saliva”).” (ibid, 4:332)
as for your other attacks on Aisha – described in the Qur’an with “and his wives are their mothers” (33:6) – beware also the words of the Prophet (saw)…
“Do not hurt me regarding Aisha”
(al Bukhari, 3:755, al Tirmidhi #3974, Sahih Ibn Hibban, #7232, Mustadrak al Hakim #6806, and others)
of course, neither al Bukhari nor any of his commentators suggested anything of the sort… what is true – as your argument is showing – is that shi-ites believe the horns of satan arose from the very burial site of the Prophet (saw)… now that really is shameless…
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Texan Dude – Just to remind you (seeing that you are busy in other threads and ignoring this one) that in my post 69 (above) I had asked you about your stance about the following people:
1) Migrated from Makkah to Madinah for sake of Islam?
2) Accommodated and helped those who had migrated to Madinah?
3) Participated in battle of Badr?
4) And those who gave allegiance under the tree (during the event of Hudaybiyyah)?
And do you believe that Hz. A'isha (ra) is Umm ul Mu'mineen (mother of the Believers)?
It will be easy if you were to refer to the Quran!
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Ibn Sadique…
The website you quoted for the letter of Hazrat Ali A.S. explains the whole letter at the top… you can’t twist the arguments… Incase you missed that part let me quote it for you again…
The following is a letter to Mu’awiya and in it Imam Ali (a) has used the same principle that he applied on Talha and Zubayr. Imam Ali (a) in this letter has raised all the points which were once quoted against him. He says if an election on the basis of general franchise is the criterion to decide such a caliphate, then general election took place to elect him the Caliph and nobody can deny this fact, and if limited franchise (Shura) was the criterion then those who represented this group (Muhajirs and Ansars) were amongst those who elected him and therefore even according to the rules formulated by opponents of Imam Ali (a) his election was lawful, regular and bonafide. Thus no Muslim has a right to speak or act against him. ]
All Hazrat Ali A.S. is did was he wrote a letter to justify that his khilafat based on how the previous three khaleefa’s were selected. Let me quote you part by part
Verily, those who took the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me. Now those who were present at the election have no right to go back against their oaths of allegiance and those who were not present on the occasion have no right to oppose me
And thats how I comprehend it.
It simply states the same people who elected the first two khaleefa’s elected Maula Ali A.S. and similarly like there were people like Hazrat Ali A.S. himself who preferred to attend the funeral services of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. unlike some people to whom greed for khilafat was more important than attending the actual funeral of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H and like the people who wern’t there at that time wern’t given right to oppose the election… based on that ideology Mawiya had no right to oppose Hazrat Ali after he became khaleefa…
…And so far as Shura (limited franchise or selection) was concerned it was supposed to be limited to Muhajirs and Ansars…
Isn’t that the ideology used for caliphs selection before him… He is using the same ideology that was setup by you people to justify the first 3 caliphs to justify his khilafat… but isn’t it amazing… even though Hazrat Ali A.S. was selected in the same manner and Mawiya who raised voice againsn’t the Ameer ul Momineen is also known as Ameer ul Momineen.. its amazing how messed up you lost souls are.
Dude the thing speaks for itself.. and shows flaws in your own believes… I wonder why are you having such a hard time understanding it… had you read the summary of the letter you won’t have had a hard time understanding it… the same way you are using a letter from our books to justify your ideologies and I try to quote stuff from your books, similarly Hazrat Ali A.S. is using the ideology established to elect the first 3 caliphs to show mawiya had no right to go against him…but oh well such a person who go against him is still regarded as Ameer ul Momineen.. I don’t get it why don’t you nauzubillah call Yazeed L.A. the same he did the same … Mawiya raged war against Hazrat Ali A.S. and Yazeed L.A. against his son.
Gupguppy sahab… a simple question… and how many of these companions were present when the actual funeral was being performed by Mawla Ali A.S. and how many were at Sakeefa for the greed of Khilafat… and if the issue of Khilafat was so important than attending the funeral service of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. why didn’t Prophet resolve it earlier… befor the ayat of completion of islam was revealed… Isnt the hadith of Ghadeer - e- khum wasn’t enough…
"For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla)."www.al-islam.org/ghadir
Its amazing how hard you try… to come up with lame excuses…
Interesting dude.. there are number of ways you can translate things in other words.. infact if you read it for yourself… not to mention you would go as far as contradicting yourself just to prove the other wrong… let me show you a simple example.
Thats what you said to justify the name should be better translated as"What has been said regarding the houses of the wives of the Prophet (saw)"… even though the excuse doesn’t fit the context..OH Well ! I can see the struggle.
Now ok the hadith is quoted as may I quote the name of the chapter as you have said “What has been said regarding the houses of the wives of the Prophet (saw)” boy what is it doing in a chapter which is regarding the house of wive of Prophet… interesting !
If quran calls the wives of Prophet’s as Umul Momineen I will respect it but the excuses you came up with .. and the hadith’s you quoted by Ayesha herself.. you can’t use to ignore the fact that she disobyed the orders of Quran leading bloodshed of several muslims… incase you have missed it let me quote what I said earlier.
O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech.[33"32]
And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.[32:33]
The first command in this verse “stay in your houses” was violated by A-isha when she went to Iraq to organise a mischievous campaign against Ali about whom the Holy Prophet said:
“O Ali, you are to me as Harun was to Musa. You are my brother in this world and the hereafter. Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and me are from one and the same light.”
[size=2]Quran clearly asks the wives of Prophet to stay at her house..and she disobeyed it to come to war against Hazrat Ali A.S. Now tell me who was righteous and who wasn’t.
Now let me quote you another ayat of Quran
“And Whoever kills a believer deliberately, his reward is Hell forever, and the Wrath of Allah is upon him, He cursed him and prepared a great punishment for him.” (Quran 4:93)
I have quoted the above in my earlier posts and no I am not plagarising. Your hadith cannot justify her disobeying Quran…
Dude if you are curious to get answer ask an Alim… I am not the right person to give references.. I am not an Alim or Scholar… if you need help you can ask at following website www.sistani.org. All I try to say is to the best of my knowledge May Allah protect readers from any errors herein.[/size]
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
finally you have seen the light and the error of your ways… yes, Aisha (r), the wife of the Prophet (saw), is the mother of the believers at large so please start respecting that
as for her father, Abu Bakr (r), the first khalifa…
“But those most devoted to Allah shall be removed far from it [the Fire],
Those who spend their wealth for increase in self-purification,
And have in their minds no favour from anyone for which a reward is expected in return,
But only the desire to seek for the Countenance of their Lord Most High;
And soon will they attain (complete) satisfaction.” (Qur’an 92: 17-21)
Ibn Kathir wrote: “More than one of the commentators has said that these verses were revealed concerning Abu Bakr al Siddiq, Allah be pleased with him; to the extent that some of them indicated a consensus of the commentators to that effect. [However], there is no doubt that he is the foremost of the ummah in being included in the general address of these verses for their wording is general.” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir 4/p.556)
your repetitive questions about the funeral and the chapter from al Bukhari have been answered already
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
**Texan Dude ** Do you notice that how studiously you and the piece you have quoted above from the website went to some lengths to avoid pointing out that Hz. Ali (ra) deemed the election of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra) was as per approval and pleasure of Allah.
If that election was as per approval and pleasure of Allah, do you sincerely think Hz. Ali (ra) was not happy with it? And thought that he was rightful successor to the Prophet (saw) in spite of what had the approval and pleasure of Allah (swt)?
Hz.Ali (ra) has clearly stated that the election of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra) was as per approval and pleasure of Allah.
Forget about Hz. Muawiyah (ra) and the rest, just stick to what Hz Ali (ra) has said about the election of his three predecessors [May Allah (swt) be pleased them].
If you read the same sermon in Arabic you will be amazed to learn that the word **‘Supposed to be’ ** is not what Hz. uttered but has been deviously inserted into the translations to enhance the Shia argument.
I have a copy of Nahjul Balagha right in front of me and surprise, surprise, it has not got the word **‘supposed to be’ ** in the translation.
I have typed the translation for you and have the book reference. The translation has been done by Mr. Sayed Ali Reda.
Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr,’Umar and Uthman have sworn to me on the same basis they swore allegiance to them. [On this basis] he who was present has no choice (to reconsider), and he who was absent has no right to reject; and consultation is confined to the Muhajirun and the Ansar. If they agree on an individual and take him to be a Caliph it will be deemed to mean Allah’s pleasure. If anyone keeps away by the way of objection or innovation they will return him to the position from where he kept away. If he refuses they will fight him for following a course other than that of the believers and Allah will put him back from where he had run away. By my life, O’ Muawiyah, if you see with you brain without any passion you will find me the most innocent of all in respect of ‘Uthman’s blood and you will surely know that I was in seclusion form him, unless you conceal what is quite open to you. Then you may commit an outrage [on me] as you like and that is an end to the matter.
Nahjul Balagha Tahrike Tarsile Quran, Inc. Publishers and Distributors of Holy Quran P.O. Box 1115, Elmhurst, New York 11373.
4th Revised Edition 1985 Library of Congress Catalog. Number 84-051778
**Texan Dude ** – You are quite smart trying to dodge the question, and you and me know why (you were doing so). I was certain that you will never respond to the questions.
In the Quran Allah (swt) has:
a) Praised these stalwarts of Islam
b) Promised them Pardon and Forgiveness
c) Stated that He is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him
d) Promised them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever
e) Deemed them to be successful and triumphant
See the following for references:
-
Migrated from Makkah to Madinah for sake of Islam?
-
Accommodated and helped those who had migrated to Madinah?
Those who believed and left their homes and strove for the cause of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them - these are the believers in truth. For them is pardon, and bountiful provision. - 8:74
*Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight. These are they who are triumphant. * - 9:20
*But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives. Such are they for whom are the good things. Such are they who are the successful. * - 9:88
And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness - Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He hath made ready for them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph. - 9:100
- Participated in battle of Badr?
" Those who believe and those who suffered exiles and fought ( and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah, they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (2:218)"
Isn’t it the common belief among all the Muslims of whatever persuasion that the people who participated in the Battle of Badr are of the highest rank?
- And those who gave allegiance under the tree (during the event of Hudaybiyyah)?
Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance unto thee beneath the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down peace of reassurance on them, and hath rewarded them with a near victory; - 48:18
Do still think that these people abandoned or damaged Islam after Prophet’s Demise? If you still do then you are going against the Quran! Bear well in mind that Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar Al Khattab and Hz. Uthman bi Affan [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) are included in the above.
Texan Dude - Earlier in your posts you had quoted the Prophet (saw) from hadith saying:
“Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.”
-
Care to enlighten me in what context he said the above?
-
Is it possible for Hz. Fatimah (ra) to get angry with Hz. Ali (ra) in some circumstances?
Please don’t try to duck the above questions.
Just to recap so that yu don’t miss out anything, I have asked you the following 3 questions:
Q1) If the election of [Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra)] was as per approval and pleasure of Allah, do you sincerely think Hz. Ali (ra) was not happy with it? And thought that he was rightful successor to the Prophet (saw) in spite of what had the approval and pleasure of Allah (swt)?
Q2) “Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.” Care to enlighten me in what context he said the above?
Q3) Is it possible for Hz. Fatimah (ra) to get angry with Hz. Ali (ra) in some circumstances?
You may need help from the following website: www.sistani.org.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Ibn Sadique dude,
Looks like someone is having a hard time digesting
the truth.. you got the translation of the same thing
I quoted based on the website you gave me and when you
couldn’t digest the truth you came up with another
translation not to mention its just worded differently
but speaks the same thing… and I know how you love
to pick and choose some parts of sermon or hadiths and
ignore the later to full fill your needs… Boy am I
not suprised… wern’t you the one who swetted so much
last time to come up with 12 names under whose
government the affairs of people were governed right..
you swet so much coming up with names but failed..
later you came up with a sermon..took pieces of it and
ignored the later dude… what a tough struggle are
you going through.. now lets analyze your translation
of letter from the one you yourself gave me earlier…
Let me quote the first part if may I…
Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr,’Umar
and Uthman have sworn to me on the same basis they
swore allegiance to them. [On this basis] he who was
present has no choice (to reconsider), and he who was
absent has no right to reject; and consultation is
confined to the Muhajirun and the Ansar. If they agree
on an individual and take him to be a Caliph it will
be deemed to mean Allah’s pleasure.
Now dude how is it different from what I said
earlier… the same thing in different words… Reading what you said earlier I comprehend the following… Hazrat Ali A.S. is using the ideology set up by you people to justify the khilafat of the first 3 caliphs… to justify his own khilafat… and similarly how people like Hazrat Ali who unlike some other companions who in the greed if khilafat left the funeral services of Prophet and couldnt make it to Sakeefa they were not given the right to reconsider… he is using the same ideology to justify that Mawiya had no right to go against Hazrat Ali A.S. Its so simple dude… All it does is shows flaws in your own believes you used the same ideology to select the first 3 khaleefas and than said who ever became the khaleefa will be deemed at Allah pleasure.. the same way mawiya had no right to go against Hazrat Ali.. and apparenlty he did raged a war against Hazrat Ali A.S. even though the hazrat Ali was selected no different from the ideology used to select the first 3 caliphas… boy what lost souls you are.. you can swet at much on this one too.. by choosing the part of the sermon and ignore the latter to meet your interests as you have been doing in the previous posts but the truth is you don’t have an argument… the translation you quoted now is no different from the one you gave me earlier and later accused its talking about the same things and not to mention it highlights the flaws in your own believes amazing ain’t it… now let me guess you are going to look for another translation that means the same and worded differently to throw some other accusations on me.. dude.. for once learn to accept the truth… Let me give you a simple example to make it easy for you to digest… you know how you have quoted this sermon from my book to make your point and vice versa I have been quoting stuff from your books to enlighted your horizons of knowledge… it seems Hazrat Ali A.S. has used to same ideology that was setup by you all to declare the khilafat of the first 3 caliphs .. to show you for yourself Mawiya had no right to go against him… hello ! wake up Dude ! a person disobeying your own ideologies is being regarded as Ameer ul Momineen !.. what a lost soul you are buddy
No its not me who is dodging Mr. its you… quoting the same sermon worded differently because of translation but means the same.. than using bits and pieces of it to make a lame argument..what a poor thing.. there are other sermons you quoted from the same book by your pick and choose thing and when I proved you wrong just said I don’t believe in the book.. even though the book has been a good source of knowledge to not only muslims but non muslims.. and later came up with a letter and start to pick and choose the part of it.. to take it out of context.
Dude, not all the companions of Prophet are righteous.. some of them offended Prophet after his death.. Following is a verse in Quran about the companions of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.
Here are two translation I ran into:
“They swear by Allah that they are truly of you while they are not of you, but they are a people (hypocrites) who intend to divide (the Muslim nation).”[Qur’an 9:56 ]
[Pickthal 9:56] And they swear by Allah that they are in truth of you, when they are not of you, but they are folk who are afraid.
Certainly not all companions were righteous as the above verse claims.. now lets read a hadith of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. from no book other than Sahih Bukhari.
Allah’s Messenger (pbuh&hf) said: I will be there at the Fountain of Kawthar before you, and I will have to contend for some people, but I will have to yield. I will be saying: My Lord, they are my companions, they are my companions, and it will be said: You don’t know what innovations they made after you.
Sahih Bukhari, Book on Heart-Melting Traditions, hadith #6089 and #6090; Book on the Trials, hadith #6527; Sahih Muslim, Book on the Virtues, hadith #4250; Ibn Majah, Book on Religious Rituals, hadith #3048; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, 1:384, 402, 406, 407, 425, 439, 453, 455;5:387, 393, 400
Amazing now lets see if Sahih Bukhari goes through the trouble of pointing out any companion who did introduce innovation.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 32, Number 227:
… Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari said, “I went out in the company of Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, Umar said, In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!). So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Kab. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, Umar remarked, What an excellent Bida (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering. He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night.”
Amazing isn’t it !
No I really doubt it.. but yeah I can quote you from Sahih Bukhari that Abu Bakr sure made Hazrat Fatime Zehra S.A. angry.. and if you have something against Hazrat Ali… quote it from my books… I won’t trust what you have to say from your own books.. I doubt the authenticity… but incase you want I can quote the part of Abu Bakr making Hazrat Fatima Zehra S.A. angry from your own and my own books to ensure its authenticity… do you have anything to say from my books???
All I try to say is to the best of my knowledge May Allah protect readers from any errors herein.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
No they haven’t Mr…
Were the first three caliphs there when Hazrat Ali was actually burrying the Holy Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. or were they out at Sakeefa trying to full fill their greed for khilafat..??? You havent answered that… and if they weren’t and the issue of khilafat was important than attending the burrial of Prophet P.B.U.H. why didn’t prophet resolve the issue.. why did he said the following hadith and made people pay alligance to it.
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Texan Dude - Keep in mind that we are debating on public forum. Let it be the privilege of the viewers to judge who is sweating to answer the questions.
You should know that wordings of translations are very important as each word carries a certain meaning. I brought you a different translation to show you that there can be very subtle manipulations of translations to enhance one’s views.
Hz. Ali (ra) spoke the original sermon in Arabic; I advise you to get hold of Nahjul Balagha in Arabic and ask any Arab worth his salt to see if the translation from the Shia site is an accurate one or not, then come back and talk.
It is amazing that you will find the following two sentences as meaning the same thing.
Texan Dude is a good man.
Texan Dude is (supposed to be) a good man.
I hope that you get the message. I have my doubts.
I am not discussing with you about Hz. Ali (ra) and Hz. Muawiyah (ra).
To me, and I am sure to all the viewers at large, Hz. Ali (ra) is pointing out to Hz. Muawiyah that his (Hz. Ali’s) election along with that of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Uthman (ra) was as per approval and pleasure of Allah and that he (Muawiyah) should accept it and cease his rebellion.
If you were to come out of the box and read it without any preconceived prejudice, you will arrive at the same conclusion. The big step for you is to come out of the box.
In the hadith of 12 Ameers of Quraish the Prophet (saw) **did not name any names except from that of Imam Mahdi (ra). ** Why should I dare name them when the Prophet (saw) has not? I don’t sweat of pointless questions.
Masha’Allah Texan Dude – Is it that all Texans suffer from ‘Bush-speak’ or is it just you and him (George Bush)?
To the following statement of mine:
You have come with the following???
Do even notice your own sorry predicament? Has your rabid hatred for the noble Companions (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) really blinded you?
In the Quran Allah (swt) has: a) Praised these stalwarts of Islam b) Promised them Pardon and Forgiveness c) Stated that He is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him d) Promised them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever
e) Deemed them to be successful and triumphant
And you have ludicrously applied a hadith out of your own convenience to prove that the above were ‘Hypocrites’
Even the clear-cut ayahs of Quran have no effect on your rabid hatred for the Companions of the Noble Prophet (saw).
Just saying **Pathetic ** will suffice.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
This has been discussed here [on this very board] many times – Please search for it. – Search for Tarawih or Tareweeh.
Let’s not keep raising new issues when we haven’t even finished with those on hand.
You know that the hadith says that the Prophet (saw) said the following: “Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.”
This statement cannot relate to Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) as issue of Fadak arose after the Prophet (saw)’s death. And this statement was made in Prophet (saw)’s life time.
I got the following from Sahih Bukhari:
Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: 'Ali demanded the hand of the daughter of Abu Jahl. Fatima heard of this and went to Allah’s Apostle saying, "Your people think that you do not become angry for the sake of your daughters as 'Ali is now going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. “On that Allah’s Apostle got up and after his recitation of Tashah-hud. I heard him saying, “Then after! I married one of my daughters to Abu Al-‘As bin Al-Rabi’ (the husband of Zainab, the daughter of the Prophet) before Islam and he proved truthful in whatever he said to me. No doubt, Fatima is a part of me, I hate to see her being troubled. By Allah, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle and the daughter of Allah’s Enemy cannot be the wives of one man.” So 'Ali gave up that engagement.
'Al-Miswar further said: I heard the Prophet talking and he mentioned a son-in-law of his belonging to the tribe of Bani 'Abd-Shams. He highly praised him concerning that relationship and said (whenever) he spoke to me, he spoke the truth, and whenever he promised me, he fulfilled his promise.” Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 76 http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/057.sbt.html
If I were to bring anything from your books relating to the above the best defence that you would put up would be “We don’t take our books to have authentic hadith, so I don’t believe in it even though it is in our books."
Isn’t it so?
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Dude, ha ha ha nice try Mr… may be you need to come out of box… the way the thing is laid out in the translation you gave me earlier and later they talks about the samething… Read the highlighted words incase you missed it…
Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr,’Umar
and Uthman have sworn to me on the same basis they
swore allegiance to them. [On this basis] he who was
present has no choice (to reconsider), and he who was
absent has no right to reject; and consultation is
confined to the Muhajirun and the Ansar. If they agree
on an individual and take him to be a Caliph it will
be deemed to mean Allah’s pleasure.
Oh the translation you gave me first said suppose and later when you failed in the argument the later translation youc ame up with siad On the same basis..read the way the letteris laid out first it mentions that hazrat Ali A.S. claimed that it was the same people who gave alligance to first 3 caliphs and later carries on using the same basis applying their ideologies that Mawiyia had no right to go against him… Are you having a hard time reading **On the same basis. **No go and be as ignorant as you want.. you keep coming up with smae thing worded differently …not to mention both the translatioin were given by you and than you pick and choose…It clearly shows Hazrat Ali A.S. is using the criteria that was setup and refer it as by saying on that basis… no one should have the right to go against him but apprently one of your so called Ameer ul Momineen did go against the Ameerul Momineen Hazrat Ali A.S. ignoring the criteria setup by you people … Now lets be smart and not twist arguments when they are stated clearly…HOW SICK OF YOU DUDE !
Oh please don’t blame me for anything… why are you getting mad at me … All I quoted are the hadiths from no other book than Sahih Bukhari… the accusations you have … relate it to the compiler of Sahih Bukhari … not me..oh poor thing.. I can understand the struggle you are going too by playing ignorant to ignore the facts that are right in front of you.
Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
Ok lemme get it straight… Are you implying that all the hadith’s Prophet mentioned only applies during the lifetime of Prophet and have no meaning after can you be any more pathetic in your game of ignorant… ??? Is that how it works…
Dude what you have said earlier is from your own book which not to mention lot of sunnis think have numerous dhaeef hadith and our books have nothing of that sort… so i really doubt the authenticity but it sure does fit in the correct context of Abu Bakr… from both the books.. but oh well some one just introduced another bidah… the hadith’s of Prophet are meant only for his lifetime… Suban Allah.. May Allah give you the reward for the good job you are doing… guiding people in the forum…
All the sunni guppies incase you didn’t notice from now on Ibn Sadique has issued the fatwah the hadith of Prophet don’t apply to people after his death feel free to ignore them as they don’t apply to you..infact there is no need to call yourselves sunnis anymore… May Allah give you the reward to follow him.