OP, your brother and the girl were physical with each other because both of them love each other and both of them chose to have a physical r/s. i don't see why they shouldn't get married if they are so much close. Your parents making issue about a girl is baseless because here they are plain ignoring the fact that your brother did the exact thing what this girl did. If they don't think this girl is good for your brother because she was sexually active with him, then on the same standards your brother is also not good for anyone because he too had a sexual r/s with a girl.
also, your parents must understand that this girl is not someone who sleeps around with half of the city, your brother and her were/are in a serious r/s and what was done was done out of love perhaps and not because she had a bad character.
Hadith where adulterers were stoned/lashed, why not those? Why play down the significance of these huge sins everywhere?
Off topic, but just want to know in a scenario, where the people involved in this have truly repented to ALLAH for the mistake, then will this hudood of lashes still applies to them in this world or they are excused?
Hadith where adulterers were stoned/lashed, why not those? Why play down the significance of these huge sins everywhere?
Because that was only supposed to happen when penetration was witnessed by 4 people or there was a confession (and people were encouraged NOT to confess to zina).. How many people go round doing 'it' in front of an audience because those two ways where the only ways Islamically that a person was supposed to be punished.. It was meant to be used more as a deterrent than a common punishment for every person out there who might have done it..
Seeing some random tribe or group stoning some poor girl in a village for suspected zina is NOT Islamic.. It's twisted and barbaric culture.. The hadith about the prostitute being forgiven all her sins for giving a thirsty dog water is another good example showing the compassionate and kind nature of Islam but too often we see barbaric blood thirsty fools thinking being as harsh as possible is somehow 'real' Islam..
Hadith where adulterers were stoned/lashed, why not those? Why play down the significance of these huge sins everywhere?
No witness, you go scott free. You can't stone anyone on a suspicion without admission. Random tribal law =/= Shariah.
The brother is now honestly honour bound to marry her. It's the right thing to do morally, islamically, intellectually. Whether they have been physical with each other or not both of them will have to face the repercussions of this Romeo Juliet romance thing. The consequences are far far more for the girl than the guy who has a backup cousin in the wings. He played his part, made promises to her, probably flaunted their relationship in front of their peers so he must man up and take responsibility and fulfil those promises. Regression to desi mentality is not the moral or Islamic option now.
The brother does not need a wali and he can marry with the girl's parent's permission. His wife may never get acceptance if they do a shotgun wedding but on the other hand they may never get married if they wait for parents. He needs to grow up asap. He has some life changing decisions to make.
I know a first cousin's couple who divorced because the guy had a steady girlfriend whom his parents did not approve of. The wife found out he was still seeing the girl and he refused to leave her, also wanted to marry her so they ended up with a divorce. The uncle and aunt basically destroyed their niece's life because they wanted a seedhi saadhi girl for their already committed son.
Why play down the **significance of these huge sins
**Key word being ‘‘significance’’ - I pointed out the harsh punishments as a measure of how severe the sin is. You can assess how bad a sin is by viewing its punishment.
Oh great. Lets promote it then!!! Let everyone do it in a way that they don’t get caught and everyone lives ‘scotfree’ Awesome accomplishment to have uncovered a workaround.
Next step is to ‘repent’ and lie about your sin to everyone and Voila on our way to heaven!!
Just because you don’t get caught makes the sin any lesser??. NO it does not!!
Let me give u another analogy. May be simple concepts of sin and crime get through to you.
Murder - is a sin AND a crime. Now are you going to quote the ‘scot free’ line in case of that crime? If i murder someone and don’t get caught - I have committed a great sin and a crime. My crime might remain unpunished due to lack of evidence - but the sin remains; and remains as horrible as it is.
**Lack of criminal punishment for a sin =/= exemption/dilution in its severity.
**I never see anyone discouraging people from these sins around here. Although people go to great lengths to provide excuses(if not justification) for these sort of acts
Off topic, but just want to know in a scenario, where the people involved in this have truly repented to ALLAH for the mistake, then will this hudood of lashes still applies to them in this world or they are excused?
Hmm. If a thief returns stolen goods, or a false witness later admits his fault and then they 'repent', do you think they should escape punishment? How is the court going to judge if someone has 'truly' repented?
Hmm. If a thief returns stolen goods, or a false witness later admits his fault and then they 'repent', do you think they should escape punishment? How is the court going to judge if someone has 'truly' repented?
You are comparing worldly courts to THAT court? Some would term this as blasphemy!
Hmm. If a thief returns stolen goods, or a false witness later admits his fault and then they 'repent', do you think they should escape punishment? How is the court going to judge if someone has 'truly' repented?
Let me clarify what i meant: Suppose someone did this sin but doesn't get caught, the authorities don't know about it. the person then later on repented truly so should he himself go to the authorities admitting that he once did that sin and then will the punishment of lashes still apply to him?
No one has ever encouraged anyone here to do such things in their lives. As adults, people are responsible for making their own decisions and facing the consequences. What are the limits and what are the punishments for every sin are clear to everybody, since from early childhood we all hear what punishments await us if we do this or that.
Let me clarify what i meant: Suppose someone did this sin but doesn't get caught, the authorities don't know about it. the person then later on repented truly so should he himself go to the authorities admitting that he once did that sin and then will the punishment of lashes still apply to him?
yes the punishment will apply-because a confession is one of the basis for handing out the punishment.
Comparing? Read again - Court carries out the trial and hands out the punishment based on evidence - repentance is outside of its scope.
The trial is carried out once the challan is submitted by the police and the challan is submitted by the police once they finish the investigation and the investigation is started once the incident is reported and FIR is launched.
If nothing was ever reported how do does the court carry out the trial?
I said no discouraging. Never said its regularly encouraged.
Do you think the discouraging in an online anonymous forum will deter people from doing such stuff. Isn't the cultural/parental/religious discouragement enough? And those who are not discouraged by cultural/parental/religious teachings will never consider the views expressed here seriously.
You mentioned Islam and I provided the ISLAMIC viewpoint (not the cultural one).. If you have a problem with that then it’s down to you..
It’s your own interpretation that not punishing something = promoting.. I don’t believe that at all.. No-one said not being caught lessens a sin either.. Again that’s your interpretation..
Well, it’s time to take out those binoculars and catch those no gooders yourself because that’s literally your only option left if you want to punish people in this life, islamically. Baaqi Allah knows what’s in people’s hearts way better than you do and he’s the one who has made catching people difficult. Also by saying people are getting no punishment then you’re clearly forgetting the hereafter.
The justifications are from those people who want to save a soul rather than condemn it. Who knows if a person truly repents then their hidden sin is forgiven. That’s between them and Allah.
I was under the impression that if a guy and girl have pre-marital relations they should marry each other islamically speaking. In this case they love each other and want to marry each other , they'ed probably make each other happy. Isnt that what matters? If it were my son in that position i'd let him marry with my blessings.
