A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Ok lets get our fact straights ....
U are against giving anyone a jail free card .... even though Quran gives it to em .... Do u even know what pak is ... Pak in the sight of ALLAH ... u consider everyone pak ... However if u look at the way we r born u wud know that we r najas ... Our Blood is Nijaas .. if we have blood on our shirts we cant Pray in those clothes !!!! soo humans r nijas !!!!
when ALLAH declares someone pak he cleraly declares that They r pak.... pak from sins pak from nijaasat ... And thats why shia belives are that Prophet s.a.w and his Ahleybaat rnt like us when imputry comes near them it becomes pure coz they r so pure !!! which means when there Blood drops fell in Karbala the Soil becomes pak .... Again wonder @ ur thinking .... Whats did shaytaan do ... say no to do a sajda to Adam and he was kicked how ....
Is that Adal ?? Somebody doesnt listen to u and u kick him out !!!! now poeple like u wud ask .... y does ALLAH get a jail free card ?
Dear they dont need ur jail free cards ... When ALLAH tells u something u cant argue over it and if u do u r wrong ... Which ISLAM tells u to kill 6 months old ???
U r asking about Hussain and yazeed soon there will be a question on ALLAH and shaitaan ... But how do u want me to prove it to u that Hussain a.s is rite ? u want me to get u a video from you tube ? am sorry but there were no video camera's back then !!!!! you are asking me for a better source than Quran in other words ? is there a better source ?
U know what u will never understand .... Sum un Buk mun Um un Fa hum la yarjeooon ... U r deaf who cant hear Quran !!
from historical Aspects I think i have put the video ... Murdering any innocent isnt allowed in islam ! ... If u think Imam Hussain wasnt innocent in Karbala then y does khakey shifaa the sand from karbala turns red every 10th of moharam ! ? thats a living miracle...

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Even though Quran Mentions Ahleybait r the Pak one ... u wont agree with that they r Masoom .... and even though Quran Mention Ashaab-un-naaar and Munafiqeen u wont agree that there were sahabi's who were wrong .... Read Sruah Munafeqoon ...and Surah Dehar ...
One is from People like Mawiyah Munafiqs and Other is from Punjtaney Pak !
oh sorry ... u wud rather appriatie a video from google and youtube showing who is rite !!!!

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Oh finally i was thinking what could u problem !!!! u have heared this hadeeth okay !!
Lemme tell u ur problem ... U have heared hadith and u have totally belived it ..... Lemme tell u Hadith is not always correct !!!! because some hadiths r made up by ur sahaba .... we shld follow em and start making up ahadees" This hadith u r mentioning contradicts to Quran When the whole Surah Munafiqoon tells u that there were sahabis who r munafiqs... That means all sahabi's cant be followed .... So rather then Believing just about anything ... u shld do some research ....

If u still dont agree that hadeeth u mention is wrong ... then lets follow all sahaba's Fight among each other and kill each other !!! If we die u shld do what yazeed did to Family of Prophet s.a.w .... make women captive, tie them in ropes, snatch there dopata's and squarfs and call ur fellow muslims to see and enjoy the show ... For the men who are dead chop their heads off put em on spears and keep em in front of captives so that they can get hurt more ...To the youngsters, when they r dead take ur horses and run over them until they r pieces those who are 6 months old kill them and make sure to open there grave (if they got one)take em out of grave and chop there heads off too soo u can show them to little captive girls and if thats not enough to hurt these little captive girls and their mothers.... go ahead and pull these girl's earings off dont open em just pull em out of there ears so u can see some more blood ...... And yea make sure we dont get anywater 3 days from the war starts !!!!
And then call ur self muslim and dont worry about the people who will support mazloom afterwards coz there will be people supporting u too as u r supporting yazeed today !!!

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Thanks for the post ... can u please tell me the ayyat where it says hurting urself is haram ?

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Why is cupping halaal in Islam?

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Just to add something intresting !!!

"685. In this year in Britian it rained blood, and milk and butter were tured into blood."

The anglo-saxon Chronicle
Translated, edited by G. N. Gramonsway, Prof of Englis, Kings College, London

ISBN 0-460-87038-6

I know most of u wont agree that its relevant to Karbal but this post is for only the people who wud, as its same year accoring to english calander
and what could be the other reason beside karbala of causing blood rain..... Unless of course if u call the english guy above shia and claim that he wanted to change history ....

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Ok herez one more guy challenging Zakir Naik for an open debate !!!

i assumed he is gonna be in debate with some shia sooon coz he loves to debate i wonder whats taking him so long !!

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Brother aqeel

I was aware about Sermon of ash-Shiqshiqiyyah all along and there was a reason to ask you for it and me posting it myself. [and admit that I did better than what you did].

The reason for my posting it is to show contradictions in the two statements attributed to Hz. Ali (ra) where in one instance he is ready to follow anyone who the people select [even though he was divinely selected to be successor the Prophet (saw)] and in the other instance he is shown (excuse my expression) ‘pitching for himself’ as the deserving immediate successor of the Prophet (saw) forgetting to mention the event of his ‘divine appointment’.

Hz. Ali (ra) was brave enough (remember that Prophet (saw) had titled him as the ‘lion of Allah’.) to stand and defend his ‘divine appointment’ as the successor of the Prophet (saw)).

Look at the stance of the Prophet (saw) when the Quraish who had persuaded his uncle Abu Talib to convey their message for him to compromise with them.

The Prophet spurned all these offers and said, “I swear by the name of God, O Uncle, that if they place the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand in return for giving up this matter (calling people to Islam), I will never desist until either Allah makes Islam prevail or I die.”

Hz. Ali (ra) would done the same to defend his ‘appointment’ and would not have said what he is purported to have said:

"Leave me and seek some one else”

“If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief (ulil Amr)."

You have not addressed the apparent contradictions between the two statements.

If you had just read the footnotes of Sermon of ash-Shiqshiqiyyah and would have seen that even some shias dispute that these words are of Hz. Ali (ra)

(1). This sermon is known as the sermon of ash-Shiqshiqiyyah, and is counted among the most famous sermons of Amir al-mu’minin. It was delivered at ar-Rahbah. Although some people have denied it to be Amir al-mu’minin’s utterance and by attributing it to as-Sayyid ar-Radi (or ash-Sharif ar-Radi) have laid blame on his acknowledged integrity, yet truth-loving scholars have denied its veracity.

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/3.htm

brother aqeel – just show me where I have taunted you for being ‘knowledge less’. Just read above and note that it is you who doing what you are accusing me of.

It is you who is admitting to yourself having lack of knowledge.
It is not my style to taunt anyone.

I can show you from World history – Sunni History – Christian history - Jewish history that Hazrat Haroon (as) (in bible he is named as Aaron) died before Hz. Musa (as).

Any Shia reference for Hz. Haroon (as) dying after Hz. Musa (as)?

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Ok i never said that i was rite ... i showed my lack of knowledge and gave u an egde for that ... which means i was ready to accpet i was wrong if shia history was different too, which wanst true ... Am not yet sure about sunni prespectives !!
and i think in the message above i was accused being a frog of well ,.... No wonders i am in well and i dunno wahts outside ... but i dont reject the fact that there is a world outside the well !!!

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Ok salam all
Thats to every one !!!!
i know am a rude person and i can be very dishearting at times most of the time to be accurate and thats because am not preeching Islam here .... when i start preeching i might change my attitude .... Am not very rude in person but i can be if its about Islam or cricket !!!! so sorry to all !

Now to ibn-siddque !!
Salam bro .... I have read ur thread .... u r trying to mix two Lecturess lemme start with a short story ...
i am not quoting typing in my own words so there might be a slight change >>>
Ok once a case was preseneted to umer the second caliph and it was two women claming that this kid is therezz, caliph didnt know what to do ... So harzat Ali a.s were called to figure out,,,, ( now remember Imam Ali was always available for Insaaf and Islam however this doesnt mean that he agreed with umer being caliph of muslims ) Imam Ali a.s asked women both and they calimed that its there son Imam Ali told Meesum-e-Tammar i think it was to cut the child in half and give a peace to each ,,, Meesum didnt ask y or y not he took his sword out and one of the mother goes ... Dont kill the guy give it to her !
Imam Ali a.s told she is the real mother coz she could accpet staying away from her son rather then seeing him dead ....

I hope U get the point !!!! Imam Ali did calim that Khilfaat is his but rather then hurting Islam he choose to stay away from khilfaat now if there is someone who can picture both stories as one
and tell who that actual mother who loved the kid was ready to leave the kid in someone else's hands just to see him alive fortunatley for her Imam Ali were there to judge here
and unfortunately there was no one to see the things the way Imam saw and those who did didnt do bayat to first caliph !!!!! Imam Ali Loved Islam but for the just to see it alive he left the islam in someone's hand ......

Now what u said Abt Mohammed s.a.w offcourse thats the best answer from the best Perosnality !!!! Imam Ali wasnt asked to follow first caliph until he was offered khilfaat after 2nd caliph passed away .... And when he was offered that u can be muslims 3rd caliph but u have to follow Quran, Prophet s.a.w and shekieens .... Imam Ali didnt accept the offer and said ... he can has no problem following Quran and Prophet s.a.w but when he follows sheekhieen then he wont be following Quran or Prophet s.a.w

rest coming soon

Ok a question here .... Y was Imam Ali a.s asked to follow Quran, Prophet s.a.w and shekiheen that simply means ... sunat of shekhieen was different from Quran and Prophet s.a.w

Anyway Going ahead ... Thats when Imam Ali denounced wrong one's as Prophet s.a.w did

about Hazrat Ali a.s being brave there is no doubt in sunni shia wahabi nassabi or any history that he was Asad-ullah now ur question makes sense y didnt he stand up for himself he was brave enough ??
belive me before u asked me that about 6 years ago these questions have visited my mind and i have asked that too people !!!
And answer makes sense that He didnt even kill the guy who spitted on his face so there wud be nothing in personal Intreset of Imam Ali a.s he just used his sword for Raza-e-Ilahai ... to please ALLAH ..
Now if he did fight people wud claim that he did for Khilfaat !!! ... i have people in the same thread who calim that "Imam Ali a.s fought mavia for khilfaat and mavia dereved it more" ..... now imagine if he did fight u wud be callin him hungry from khilfaaat .... and this is also answer to the person who calimed Imam Ali fought mavia for Khilfaat ... If it was for Khilfaat he wud have fought first caliph to start with y wait till mavia ???

Also u mentioned that in one Khutba he says that he doesnt seem to be intrested in khilaafat and in other one he claims khilfaaat ....
To start with we dont belive in Khilfaaat we belive in Imamat ... which basically sounds like are same thing with two names !!!
We belive Imamat ( or Khilfaat ) comes from ALLAH .... ALLAH decides who my Imam is not us or muslims after Prophet s.a.w left the world !!!
Imam Ali mentioned that 1st caliph doesnt dereve khilfaat as he knows who is supposed to be caliph, to my ignorant Understanding he did it soo no one could ask shia's 1400 years later that howcome Imam Ali didnt even calim khilfaat if u think he was Imam appointed by ALLAH.
Then he says I am rather u Mola ( ur helper ) not khalifaa thats quoted by u .,.. i have looked for surmon 91 and i couldnt find it in the breief reading i did !! however again just coz i didnt i read the whole thing doesnt mean its not thier so i wud agree with u here but can u plzz mention where it is int he surmon its a long surmon !!! I have no doubt in what he said but still its better to read ...
So again He said he is our Mola helper and ,,,,, people who accpeted him as fourth calipha were kharjees ,,, They pooved it later ,.... howeverr what am trying to say is to my undertsang he meant that dont consider him fourth Calpih consider him there first Imam !!
again i wud appritiate u mentioning the exact likes ,... coz after u post em i try to look in urdu nahjul blagha for better understanding and i dun have time to read 20 pages sermon i am student and my schedule is quiet packed so plz if u can mention the parhgrpah numerber or sumthing
Thanx
wasalam
Aqeel

๑۩ﺴ ☞ Chatti Ke Doodh ☜ ๑۩ﺴ
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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Well so far ... i havent got a boook am lookin for ... i have just verbally asked a shia scholar very trustworthy atleast for me ... he did recommend me some books and i am trying to get my hands on em
Inshallah soon i will post a shia and sunni book refernce ...

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

If Quran is hard to understand go with hadeeth ... "Hussain-o-minni wa inna minal Hussain"
thats actually not easy to undertsand either .... Hussain a.s mujh sey hain aur main Hussain a.s sey .... thats what prophet s.a.w said !!! now u can say that Hussain a.s to rasool sey hain means he is Prophet s.a.w Grandson .... what r u gona do with the other part !!!!
Hazrat Hussain a.s is Imam of all youths in Jannat you think the person who killed his family will be allowed in jannat ?? May ALLAH take u where ever Yazeed go's on day of judgement !!!

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Ok jaanaaan now thats according to sunni history by the X president of Ahlay sunnat wal jammat !!!

Listen to what ur sunni Prof. think about Yazid !!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pXoOsTHu6i8&feature=related

now what else would u like … Its according to sunni history by Sunni AALIM !!!

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Its just ammazing that Sunni's president ( Molana Tahir ul Qadri ) is making people cry for Hussain and people who calim to be sunni are asking how does Hussain get a jail free card !!!

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

first of all Aqeel, i never claimed to be a sunni. I never claimed to be any thing. that is your assumption. and you are lying in that respect. but since you do not have the balls to accept your mistake and apologise, i will leave it at that. Aqeel is a beautiful name, but in your case it is a misnomar.
I have been searching for the that elusive truth. I dont believe in what you believe in. and i dont believe in what your opponents believe in. i believe in the power of reason. I think that evidence should be presented and a case should always be decided in the respect.

you said this:

[quote]
This hadith u r mentioning contradicts to Quran When the whole Surah Munafiqoon tells u that there were sahabis who r munafiqs.
[/quote]

fine you said that. and you say that some of the Ahadiths, or maybe all of them, have been made up by people. i will accept that. and so we will leave ahadiths out of that. so your hadith that:

[quote]
"Hussain-o-minni wa inna minal Hussain"
[/quote]

should be thrown out of the window, just to be fair you know.

you believe that ahadiths were made up. but you dont want to believe that the history you quote might have been written by someone else, by someone who was Hussain's supporter?
there is an old saying "history is written by the victor". if we take that to be true, then we could say that Yazid being the victor could have written the history. but would he have written something that could denigrate him? put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself: would you do that? obviously the answer is NO. and so what you narrate is obviously something that could be debated too. that is only possible if you keep your eyes open. but since you have already accepted their verity I am doubtful you will ever do that.
but lets say whatever you wrote is true. lets say Yazid was a cruel man. lets also say that he was someone who brutally killed and mutilated a family that was so closely related to the Prophet, what then? you need to understand that in politics "fair is foul and foul is fair" as Shakespeare would have put it. one has to be machivellian in order to gain and keep power. so crushing one's enemy is a priority to any ruler. rebellions are always dealt with iron fists. that is they way the world goes on. and If Imam Hussain did not know that and still led his family into the way of destruction. well, tough luck for him and his family. he should have thought about it before going into the battle.
he could have followed the Prophet's way. when he did not have enoug support, the prophet did not go on an offensive against the people in Makkah. that was in the early days of Islam. he was a wise man and knew that people supporting him were as important as God's help. so until he became powerful enough he did not invade Makkah.

now coming to the other aspect. you just said that we were born of a najas method, and that Hussain was born of a paak, pure method. in this way you just denied that he is human being. all human beings are born the same way. I am sure that he was a human being. you know why? because he was the grandson of the prophet. and in the Quran God tells prophet to the people:

I am human being just like yourself (Ana Basharrum mislikum)

so just like goats breed goats, horses breed horses and cattle breed cattle, human beings breed human beings. that is a simple scientific fact.

in any case i will not argue with you any more. I know how hard it is to convince any orthodox person with a reason. they are stubborn and will never learn. I am going to leave this at that. and this will be my last post to this topic.
thanks for wasting my time.

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[quote]
and this will be my last post to this topic.
[/quote]
^ an thank God for that. what utter rubbish...fgs!

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik


sorry to disappoint you but only jahil people consider him a molvi or scholar or whatever you wanna call him.

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Why? Does he encourage suicide bombings?

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Huh !!!!! was yazid a victor !!!!!
If he was a victor we wud all be drinkin beers and having zana coz all that wud be halal !!!!!!!!

What ever u said just try to apply that on urself and u will probably discover some irony in what u say !!!!
throw ahadees out throw Quran out .... what ever u wana do, U rnt a sunni i shld have been more careful >>>>
That ayya u quoted was to save toheed not distroy Rislaalat ...
Prophet isnt like us .... if u did understand that we wudnt be aruguing here !
dont Recide Darood on Prophet and his aal ,... which by the way ALLAH does and aal includes Hussain...
I am more than happy to leave u with the thought u have ,.... and i will pray for u
May ALLAH wake u up with Zakir Naik on ur left and Yazeed on ur right !!!!!
and i dunt wana use vuglar language here on islamic forum ... and barking after a dog will just make me like him not different than him !

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LOL