A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Society Religion & Philosophy
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The question was asked here [starting from 07.00]

http://www.guidedways.com/islamicvideos/view_video.php?viewkey=87396731&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr

And here the answer was given.

http://www.guidedways.com/islamicvideos/view_video.php?viewkey=1988376943&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr

I am not bother about the question but about the content of his reply.

He addressed Yazid with ‘May Allah be pleased with him’ and said the war in Karbala was a ‘political war’ just as the war at Jamal.

We did have a earlier thread on the subject of Yazid.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=233257&highlight=yazid

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=233596&highlight=yazid

I find it really puzzling. I thought only a minority of the Ahle-Sunnah wal Jamaat people had such beliefs.

I like listening to his lectures but for me, it’s really disappointing to see influential people like him saying things like that. It’s just like degrading all the sacrifices that were made by both father and son. (Hazrat Ali a.s. and Hazrat Hussain a.s.) Why say it was a political war when all their lives they dedicated so much to Islam and fought for it. Why would they have blood spilled for politics.

Now my question is it that different fiqhs have different take on this? I remember a shafi girl who studied in Syria saying that the scholars (Shaafi) there addressed Yazid as (la). So what type of people have such beliefs in the Ahle-Sunnah wal Jamaat?

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Dr Zakir Nayak is 100% correct here
if you think beyond what your parents teaches you and think with your mind , then every thing will be clear to you

leave everything to Allah
it doesn’t harm anyone if they don’t give lanat to anyone , rather it is better for them because true reality only Allah knows

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

The second video is gone so I can't really comment.

Now I have great respect for Ali {raz}, but he was wrong when he didn't prosecute the killers of the third caliph. I think those people were in his army so maybe he needed them to prolong his rule. Anyway, whatever his reason for not prosecuting the killers, be it that he didn't want more bloodshed or he wanted to be khalifah at last, he did set a bad example for future muslims. Of course, muawiyah and co. prolly also used this to further their own political goals.

PS Disclaimer: None of the sahabas claimed that they were perfect and many used to cry in the night asking for God's forgiveness. I like this humbleness but we should be able to judge the actions of people without getting all emotional.

*~ Meira Sub Sey Pyara Dushmen ~*
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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

^ perhaps u r the first muslim who has gone this far to say that Ali (ra) was wrong and set a bad example for future muslims....

great sahabas like talha (ra) and zubair (ra) met with Ali (ra) and were convinced he is right, and u come up with this....

just because shiaas say bad about abu bakar (ra) and umar (ra) and other sahabas doesnt mean u go around saying such things about Ali (ra)....

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

My parents didn't teach me Islamic history, rather I learnt it myself and 'I think with my mind'. Let's not assume things here - about me or my parents.

Hazrat Ali a.s. is known for justice. I think if you study his character, his whole life. You would not say he was wrong. And of course, sahabas asked for forgiveness. If they didn't teach us such humbleness and the salikha of asking for forgiveness, who would?

I am shocked to see the second video (the comment on Yazid) removed both from the above website, from youtube and from video.guru.com as well.

Something seems to be going on. The other parts remain there.

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Two questions:

1) Were killers of Uthman part of Ali [raz] armies ever when they fought muawiya or others?

2) Did Ali [raz] presecute the killers of Uthman [raz]?

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

1) yes, 2) no

Ali (ra) was faced with a big political unrest at the moment and he was not even given a chance to do anything....

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

just answer these question

  1. doesn't your parents are shia ?
  2. if that was not political fight rather islamic fight then why Hazrat Hussan R.A didn't participate in fight
mama's boy
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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Well, I was not surprised to hear that Zakir Naik has used "ra" for a notoious one like Yazeed laeen since there has always been a minority group (particularly the Salafies) who have held yazeed in high esteem. They reason behind is that if one criticises yazeed for his Haram acts, then the door of 'investigations' would get open and will go above encompassing yazeed's ancestors as well, thus they try their best to stop at yazeed. Similarly, esteemed Sunni scholar Ibn Hajr al Makki who wrote in Sawaiqh al Muhriqa page 121:

Imam Ghazali said that to mention the martyrdoms of Hadhrath Hassan(r) and Hadhrath Husayn(r) is forbidden as the Martyrdom of Hadhrath Husnaayn (r) inflames malice against the companions of the Prophet.

This sums up the reason for their opposition. Why does hatred of the Sahaba arise while recollecting the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (as)? The reason is that whosoever will listen to the assassination of Hadhrath Husayn (as) he will try to locate his killer who was Yazid. The next question will be 'how' he attained the seat as Khalifa over the Muslims. The answer, Mu'awiyah appointed him. The veils will be removed and the deeds of this anti-Ahlulbayt party will be there for all to see. Its fearing this investigation that led to Ghazzali issuing this Fatwa; after all prevention is better than cure!

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

[googlevid]376546891813660951[/googlevid]

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

and about zubair[ra] he said that he was "always from amongst us" meaning the Ahlulbayt

India rejects F-16, FA-18.its between Rafale vs Euro fighter Typhoon $10 billion deal
India rejects F-16, FA-18.its between Rafale vs Euro fighter Typhoon $10 billion deal
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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

.

  1. If you have some arguments then bring them forward. Bringing parent in a discussion is quite cheap and absolutely not required, and not allowed. Keep this in mind.

  2. Hazrat Hassan (ra) got martyred long time ago. So, obviously he was not present there to participate in fight.

tip. It is always useful to know some basic information about the subject before starting an argument.

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

what you will say if some one say that one person is saying that was a political war so he is giving wrong argument , without giving his own argument to prove that that was not a political war rather religious war

it happens only when , when someone have some view already and on listening to someother view , one just refuse him as that donot tally with one's view
and mostly these views came from parents and to remove these view is not easy

[quote]

  1. Hazrat Hassan (ra) got martyred long time ago. So, obviously he was not present there to participate in fight.

tip. It is always useful to know some basic information about the subject before starting an argument.
[/QUOTE]

this political battle was not started at time of hazrat husain r.a , it was started long before if you know any history , even a little bit

hazrat hassan r.a refuse to fight against mawaya , father of yazeed , do you forgot that

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

....he did not "refuse to fight" but accepted a CONDITIONAL offer of armistice ...furthermore Hasan[as] participated in ALL the battles of his father

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Truly, Allah :swt: was pleased with each and everyone of those who lived and aided the Holy Prophet :saw: and Yazid was one of them…

And the reason it is reduced to a status of a political war is simply because it is better that what happened 1,400 years ago rmeains a political issue as Sunnis believe rather making it into a religious issue such as Shias would have us believe…That would give the issue rest…

However, Sunnis do not believe in mourning the martyrs or grieving endlessly over past issues as what happens happens with the will of Allah :swt: and a Muslim finds repose in that thought otherwise the life is spent in eternal misery…

Prophets of Allah :swt: have been killed and hanged and martyred and who deserves more of our grieving then they? However, as Muslims we find rest in the fact that what happened to them happened with the will of Allah :swt: and what He does, does not merit wet eyes…He does what He does in the best of knowledge…

After almost 1,500 years, I wonder what further ‘doors of investigation’ would open and what would be unearthed that shake the very foundation of Islam, Wallahoalam…

For Sunnis, not only the lives of Hz. Ali and Hussain :razi2: but the life every Sahaba was dedicated to Islam and they too lost their lives and had their blood spilled, much before Hz. Ali and Hussain :razi2:…Isn’t it degrading that we don’t take their sacrifices into account? How degrading is it when many Shias curse them in the face of Sunnis? How do you think it makes Sunnis feel?

As you know, I used to be a Barelvi…Barelvis in essence are half Shias and half Sunnis in belief and are very influenced by Shia beliefs…So, they tend to belittle some Sahabas as well…In ignorance I too used to do that and used to shout ‘Ya Ali’ ‘Maula Ali’ e.t.c…That’s what I was taught and I believed it as well…

But, once knowledge is gained, it clears a lot of misconceptions…

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Peace Bro. Hyperactive

Interesting comparison … Barelvi = (Shia + Sunni)/2

:~

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

Are you sure about what you are saying? This implies that yazeed laeen was a Sahabi? Have the major Sunni rijal scholars agreed on that?

The martyrdom of other people are truely respected but the martyrdom of Imam Hussain [as] has got special attention since His birth, I dont feel there is any need to remind the prediction of his martyrdom that was given to Holy Prophet [s] which made him dejected, same reactions has been recorded on the part of the other memebers of Ahlulbayt [as]. Moreover, the other respected martyrs were not that dear and close to Holy Prophet [s] like Hussain Shaheed ush Shuhdah [as].

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

If belittling Sahabah is something you reject then you must maintain the standard and hence by the same token also reject those who had audacity to malign, abuse, curse and fight the Sahaba including your fourth caliph. But I can understand, some 'muslehat' gonna come in between that!

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Re: A disappointing Dr Zakir Naik

This was my question, so I appreciate replies on this. Didn’t Allama Iqbal say

Qatl-e-Hussain a.s. asal mein marga-e-Yazid hai
Islam Zinda hota hai har Karbala kay baad

Thus I am really confused on the position of Yazid in the 4 fiqhs and among Sunni muslims.

**meherealone ** Read this thread

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=269364&highlight=nahjul

It would show you the character Hzrt Ali a.s. That’s just one example.

I got the following from http://www.al-huda.com/Nahjul%20Balagha%20FP.htm

Hazrath Ali did not tolerate mere mercenaries but did not let services of volunteers go unpaid. He hated murder and blood-shed and desired his soldiers to be soldiers in the service of God and religion. His strict orders to the army were, "always keep fear of God in your mind, remember that you cannot afford to do without His Grace. Remem_ber that Islam is a mission of peace and love. Keep the Holy prophet (A.S.) before you as a model of bravery, valour and piety. Do not kill anybody unless in self defence. Take care of your mounts and your arms, they are your best guards. Work hard while you are at it and then devote some time to rest and relaxation. Rest and relaxion are as much necessary for you as hard work. Do not let one overstep the time limit of the other. Do not pursue those who run away from an encounter and do not kill fleeing persons. Do not kill those who beg for life and mercy. Do not kill civilians. Do not pursue those who run away from an encounter and do not kill fleeing persons. Do not kill civilians. Do not outrage modesty of women. Do not harm old people and children. Do not accept any gifts from the civil population of any place. Do not billet your soldiers or officers in the houses of civilians. Do not forget to say your daily prayer. Fear God. Remember that death will inevitably come to every one of you some time or other, even if you are thousand of miles away from a battlefield; therefore be always ready to face death." He did not appreciate heavily armed and clad soldiers. He liked lighter swords, lighter bows and arrow, lighter coat of arms and ligh_ter chain of armours. He preferred to have an agile and a mobile army. I wish I had space at my disposal to translate parts from the books Aihgarath, Siraj-ul-Mobeen, Al_Murtaza and Kitab-e-Siffeen (as quoted by Ibne Abil Hadeed). They have discussed and narrated at some lenght his system of reorganizing the army, his principles of strategy and his tactics of war: how he divided the army into six units, beginning from van guard (Muquadamath-ul-Jaish) and ending it at the rear guards (Radah and Saqquah); how he arranged to cover every possibility of a retreat with the help of these units; how he sub_divided the cavalry into horse and camel units; and infantry into archers, swordsman and ‘Mata’een’ (soldiers armed with short lances which they threw with precision, skill and force); how he made the van guard responsible for scouting, pioneering and per_forming duties of sapper and Miners; how he used to arrange the army in a battle-field; how he never suffered a defeat in his life; how bold he was ; how he used to fight without protecting his body with armour or shield; how he never delivered more than one blow (mostly his one blow was sufficient to kill his opponent, if not he would give the opponent chance to get up and run away) and how nobody ever dared stand before him for his second blow. To him war was a pious duty to be performed only for the pourpose of defence.

It’s based on his character that I refuse to believe he would fight for politics and not for Islam. Afterall, as far as I know muslims are allowed to take up arms in the case of Jihad only and Jihad is for Allah. Hazrat Hussain a.s. also was on the same page with his father. Thus again I can’t believe he too fought for politics and not for Islam.

The rest Code Red and Das Reich have replied.

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How did Yazid aid the Prophet and why was Allah pleased with him?

Why is it better that it should be reduced to a political issue?

So people who mourn n grieve for martyrs spent their life in eternal misery. :konfused:

“Will of Allah” is such a convenient quote. Now you wouldn’t be please to hear me say the cursing that goes one that you despise is “Will of Allah” too, right?

When Prophet Yaquoub pbuh cried till he lost sight after his separation from his son Yusuf pbuh, why did it merit so much wet eyes. Didn’t he know it was “Will of Allah” and leave it at that.

Can I say what is happening in Darfur, Iraq, Palestine and other places where tyrants rule is “Will of Allah” - such things don’t merit wet eyes. I will find rest in this fact? Really? Injustice is injustice and it’s human nature to cry n also to condemn the tyrants.

IMHO, shias who curse in the face of Sunnis don’t have the Ikhlaq that Islam has taught.

How does saying Ya Ali’ ‘Maula Ali’ belittle sahabas?

Waisay baat kahan kee kahan taak pounch gai. :smack:

Anyway, I am not here to debate (I am not knowledgeable enough to do that :smack: ) but I am to get answers. I would appreciate if ppl can get bk to me on my question at Post no. 1.

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