'65 War: Photos and Facts

[Talwar]

[quote]
Originally posted by zaavia:
talwar, u r one stubborn guy...give some account of some pictures from the indian army inside lahore city...and not the suburbs...
[/quote]

Zaavia,

I never said we entered Lahore. WE were at the gates when ceasefire was announced.

Now as for being stubborn, lets see:

1. You claimed India started the war and I get my knowledge from Indian media, but I have disproved it conclusively using neutral links, one of which was posted by Abdali.

So, do you accept that Pakistan started the war?

[taurus]

Originally posted by Degas:
** .. and who told u that.. infact India was defeated and suffered heavely with a smaller army of Pakistan.. and now dont say Pakistan was the aggressor and attacked India

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**

Degas - I think Talwar is replying convincingly. Pakistan attacked Indian to snatch Kashmir away. Did you succeed in that ?? No . Infact now you celebrate 1965 as “National Defence Day”. Attackers had to defend their ass.. So sad.

Anyway we let 95000 of your men scotfree in 1971. Atleasr be thankful about that.

[devil123]

[quote]
Originally posted by taurus:
** Degas - I think Talwar is replying convincingly. Pakistan attacked Indian to snatch Kashmir away. Did you succeed in that ?? No . Infact now you celebrate 1965 as "National Defence Day". Attackers had to defend their ass.. So sad.

Anyway we let 95000 of your men scotfree in 1971. Atleasr be thankful about that.**
[/quote]

and out of those 95000 ,60,000 are still in the defence forces and some in top most positions...god do help pakistan...pls

[Gandalf]

[quote]
Originally posted by Spock:
Talwar, why has india chickened out now?
[/quote]

Bro,

If a small incursion Kargil can lead to over 2000 Indian dead body bags and a couple of shot down Migs, what do you think a full scale war would do to India.

If their cricket team is anything to go by, Indian _______ (fill in the blank - another word for donkey) is not only going to be kicked, its going to be chilli fried.

And in typical Indian fashion, when we decide to leave Kargil, they claim victory.

Gotta love the Hindus

[This message has been edited by Gandalf (edited May 29, 2002).]

[Talwar]

Gandalf,

You are forgetting the 2,700 Pak soldiers that became Allah ke pyarey in Kargil?

Very convenient

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[Adnan_Ahmed]

Originally posted by Talwar:
** Answer my above question and then I’ll answer yours.

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Adnan,

Pls go and read my posts. Then respond to them point by point if you can.

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**

Talwar, I read your above post and they are as crapy as ever.. I have read other books written by non Pakistani sources and the confirm everything. Most consider Pakistans claims to be accurate. Some even say Pakistan did more harm to Indians then they (Pakistanis) care to admit, simply because they couldn’t support such claims with accurate evidence. They choose instead to only offically mention those that could be coraborated.
Point is, Hindustan sucks…

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[Gandalf]

Talwar;

And did you get that 2700 figure from the unbiased "Bharat Post", "Shiv Sena Daily", or "Vajpayee Times".

The mighty Indian Army with jet fighters, thousands of troops and artillery, couldn't dislodge a band of men.

Forget disloging, they didn't even know that they were in India.

What a joke !

[Adnan_Ahmed]

Originally posted by Talwar:
** You guys attacked us to get Kashmir, but ended up fighting to save Lahore.

Victory is gauged by who wanted what -

India only wanted to relieve the pressure in Kashmir by attacking in the plains. We accomplished our goals and even got parts of PoK.

OTOH, Pak wanted Kashmir but lost their own territory.

So who won?

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**

Nobody won, you guys lost a hell of alot of territory aswell… Point is, you are supposed to be the “superior” army, out numbering us then much the way you do today. Yet despite your over whelming numerical superiority, Pakistan was still able to capture parts of your territory. Loss of LAND FOR YOU THUS IS FAR MORE DAMNING. For Pakistan, losing some territory was to be expected, all things considered.

[Adnan_Ahmed]

[quote]
Originally posted by Talwar:
**
Zaavia,

I never said we entered Lahore. WE were at the gates when ceasefire was announced.

Now as for being stubborn, lets see:

1. You claimed India started the war and I get my knowledge from Indian media, but I have disproved it conclusively using neutral links, one of which was posted by Abdali.

So, do you accept that Pakistan started the war? **
[/quote]

As far as we are concerned, India started the war by being in Kashmir in the first place... There were also somethings that lead to Pakistani invasion.. I have to reread my history a bit so will get back to you on that when I can. Most people dont blame PAKISTAN, it was just another situation like the one were in now where India is the aggressor.

[Adnan_Ahmed]

Originally posted by Talwar:
**Gandalf,

You are forgetting the 2,700 Pak soldiers that became Allah ke pyarey in Kargil?

Very convenient

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

**

Well, i dont think they were Paki soldiers so your very first ascertion is wrong. Second, I do believe we did far more damage to Indians, whether they want to admit it or not…
I think the only way to solve this, is to have another Kargil…

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[Talwar]

Originally posted by Gandalf:
Talwar;
And did you get that 2700 figure from the unbiased “Bharat Post”, “Shiv Sena Daily”, or “Vajpayee Times”.
What a joke !

Nope. It was straight from the Horse’s mouth.
http://www.gulfnews.com/articles’news.asp?articleid=40792

In his first ever interview since being deported from the country about 14 months ago, Nawaz lifted the curtain on the events that led to his downfall in October, 1999 ** in an interview to Urdu daily Jang where he made no secret that Kargil was a bigger disaster than 1965 and the 1971 wars becausePakistan lost over 2,700 soldiers.

The entire Northern Light Infantry was wiped out. **

“When I reminded Musharraf of his claim that the operation will be risk-free, he replied that the Indians had resorted to carpet bombing, which looked rather naive to me,” he said.

Now, if you have aukaat, please PROVE your claim of 2,000 soldiers killed from either an Indian or Western/neutral source.

I have proved my claim with a Pakistani source.

Please put up or shut up. The joke is non you.

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[Talwar]

[quote]
Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
** Most people dont blame PAKISTAN, it was just another situation like the one were in now where India is the aggressor. **

[/quote]

If "most people" don't blame Pak, then please prove your claim with ONE neutral link.

I have given 2 links, one from BBC and another from US congress which say Pak started the war.

So please BACK UP your beliefs.

Then we'll talk.

[Adnan_Ahmed]

Im actually looking for a book I read written by an Australian. Will respond when I can. But point is, just the way you wouldn't blame India for attacking us now, we dont blame PAKISTAN FOR 65'. By the way, did you links also happen to mention the rational behind Pakistans attack?

[This message has been edited by Adnan Ahmed (edited May 30, 2002).]

[Adnan_Ahmed]

[quote]
Originally posted by Talwar:
** If "most people" don't blame Pak, then please prove your claim with ONE neutral link.

I have given 2 links, one from BBC and another from US congress which say Pak started the war.

So please BACK UP your beliefs.

Then we'll talk.

**
[/quote]

By the way, you didn't answer my last two posts, is that easy to make you shut your mouth?

[Talwar]

What posts Adnan?

Any specific questions?

I’ll be glad to educate you

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[Gandalf]

Originally posted by Talwar:
** Now, if you have aukaat, please PROVE your claim of 2,000 soldiers killed from either an Indian or Western/neutral source.

I have proved my claim with a Pakistani source.

Please put up or shut up. The joke is non you.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

**

Blunted sword;

Your source is Nawaz Sharif, who was kicked out of his premier position and is strongly biased against Musharaf and his government.

Only an Indian would be that be that naive.

Try harder my lost soul.

[Talwar]

**Only Pakistanis believe that they won in 1965. Unfortunately, the REST OF THE WORLD seems to think otherwise

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**

I saw this article today:
[Bellicose foes painted into corner](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?tf=tgam/common/FullStory.html&cf=tgam/common/FullStory.cfg&configFileLoc=tgam/config&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&da te=20020601&dateOffset=&hub=headdex&title=Headlines&cache_key=headdexInternational¤t_row=5&start_row=5&num_rows=1)

India and Pakistan fought again over Kashmir in 1965, when Pakistani forces tried to invade the territory only to meet a humiliating defeat.

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With a vastly more powerful military, India would almost certainly win any all-out conventional war with Pakistan,** as it has three times since the two countries were partitioned at independence in 1947.**

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**I’m sure my Pakistani friends can come up with neutral sites that back up their claim. But then again…

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**

[This message has been edited by Talwar (edited June 01, 2002).]

[Talwar]

Here’s a Pakistani author writing in “Pakistan Today” Website.
http://www.paktoday.com/cross31.htm

**
In making up our mind we should keep the past history of our initiatives on Kashmir in mind. In 1965 we attacked Kashmir. However, when India attacked Pakistan, we had to shift our troops from Kashmir to save Lahore and Sialkot.

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None of the Indian cities, neither Ferozepur nor Amritsar, faced any danger.

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In 1971 India dismembered our country into two and we could not mount even a token offensive from West Pakistan. In 1999 we repeated the idiotic folly of 1965. We grabbed the lifeline of India’s northern army at Kargil. When India threatened to attack Pakistan, our prime minister had to rush to Washington to prevent Indian attack.

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**

Can anyone bring any Indian websites that blame India?

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[Talwar]

Here’s a report from Today’s Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54518-2002Jun3.html

In a 1965 war and in a 1999 skirmish, the Pakistani forces were forced to give way to India’s military might

[CM]

Well talwar, as i proved you wrong in that thread in Kashmir affairs. I will do the same now on the 1965 war. Now lets start with the basics. Who started the war:

Who crossed the International boundary? By legal definitions, wars are only started when the international boundaries are crossed. In 1965 as now, the LOC is not an international boundary. So who started the 1965 war?

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It is a pleasure to stand upon the shore, and to see ships tost upon the sea: a pleasure to stand in the window of a castle, and to see a battle and the adventures thereof below: but no pleasure is comparable to standing upon the vantage ground of truth . . . and to see the errors, and wanderings, and mists, and tempests, in the vale below.