Re: 4 Wives
^ no it's not allowed.(fivesomes are not allowed). do not put the word "halal" in your nasty thoughts. you are guaranteed to burn in hell now - pufffffff - "the fires of hell upon you". you are all ashes now!
is it halaal to ahem lay all of ur 4 wives at the same time?
It's not halal to have them in the same house let alone lay all of them at the same time.
^ You're perceiving my posts as being agressive. However, I was calm while typing up my responses. I'm fully aware that the moderators are watching. I haven't said anything rude. I've only analyzed an issue, nothing more, nothing less. I may have been sarcastic.........and "thinking with the lower head" is a common expression. You make it sound as if I'm cursing, lol.
Anyhow, yes there ARE worse people out there, but that excuse can't be used to justify things.
For example, you can steal a piece of gum.........which is not as "worse" as stealing someone's honest and hard-earned money, but it's STILL bad. You might commit zina which is not as "worse" as rape, but is STILL bad enough.
Anyhow, I wouldn't call polygamy the Prophet SAW's "sunnah." I've heard that the word "sunnah" means "recommended." And polyamy is not recommended..........it's an option. Even Allah HIMSELF knows that men can't treat women equally. Also, the Prophet SAWS was married to Hazrat Khadija who was 15 years older than him..............and was faithful to her during ALL the years of their marriage. His reasons for multiple marriages was not to fullfill sexual urgues.......................he had those marriages done was to provide protection to widows, to solidfiy relations, and to bring unity between different groups.
You might say that multiple marriages to meet sexual needs was something that the Prophet SAWS' companions engaged in. However.........I wouldn't try to push it as far as saying that polygamy is the prophet SAW's "recommenation" or sunnah. And are you also practicing any of the other sunnahs of the Prophet? Or are you only concentrating on polygamy?
People on this thread are thinking about the consequences of polygamy from multiple angles........whereas **YOU **are looking at it cheifly from a sexual point of view. Yes, there might be women who are happy to receive financial security in exchange for being a 2nd/3rd/4th wife. However...........there is the issue of CHILDREN and their well fare to consider.............there is the issue of emotional security to consider as well. As I had said in my first post in this thread......................the idea of "equal treatment" is not only confined to equal material things. You might give all four wives the SAME car, the same house, the same amount of pocket money, etc etc etc. However..................that does not mean your attitude/emotional treatment toward them will be equal. And if children are in the picture........they can sense if their mom is "most cherished" "most cherished for her body" or "least cherished." There is much you haven't considered.
People who say it's sunnah to have 4 wives forget that there was a time Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was also married to just one as well which makes marrying only one sunnah as well.. People also forget that simply cos something is permitted (and polygyny is only permitted if u can treat all 4 the same) doesn't mean it's necessarily the best course of action, like RV has pointed out there is so much to consider, it isn't something a man can just jump into and hope for the best, infact am sure there is a v.harsh punishment for those who don't practise it the right way and don't treat the wives fairly. It's ridiculous to say just cos something is allowed I have the right to do it and that is the end of it. In Islam a wife isn't obliged to do ANY housework (yes, seriously) but that doesn't mean all of us girls should just put our feet up and not do our fair share. It's all about common sense and compromise and that should work both ways..
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[quote="Deela"]
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And referring me to' thinking form my lower-head' when did i say that i intend to hump those ones and then make an excuse to rid of them.
Before making bold claims from relgion do more research. You clearly have not.
*You have issues with comprehensiong. I NEVER said that you planned to hump your wives and make excuses to get rid of them. What I was trying to say is that even if one plans to KEEP all of his multiple wives material goods can't compensate for emotional security. *
And I say you are obsessed with my threads because i dont see you writing such 'essays; anywhere else on anybodies forums. People are out here on life with eually trivial issues but like/need to discuss them without one long lecture from one wise individual acting like to close the thread.
WRONG. Khush fahmi.....Khush fahmi. Don't flatter yourself. I have written my "essays" on other people's threads. In fact, I wrote one of my "essays" on Zazzy's thread yesterday. I don't make it a mission to type long posts. The length of my posts depends on the issue....and my own personal sense of thoroughness. Some issues are complex and can be discussed with many examples and from many angles....and so the post for these issues can be longer.
IM no kid. Dont try to insult me into staying on the 'puritan or wussy side' get-it?I am a Man, I know what Im doing*.*
Have I said that you weren't a man in this this thread? I find it strange that you have to "ASSERT" that you're a man. So are you implying that those who choose to stay within their limits and have boundaries are "puritan" or "wussy"?????
It does not have to be neccesery I am in a problem right now in order to collect peoples opnions. Some people like to be PROACTIVE, by watching others mistakes.
*Come on now.....you told me not to think of you as a "wussy" and that you are a "MAN". Okay.....so be man enough to say that the quote u typed in "red" refers to me. LOL. **Your arguments are all about how you are the "victim" who is being "criticized" by the women. **BUT YOU STILL HAVEN'T COUNTERED OUR VALID ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE POTENTIALLY SERIOUS NEGATIVE CONFLICTS OF POLYGAMY. *
We know polygamy is halal and we're discussing its potential negative consequences. Also, please don't give us religious references on the nature of men (we know the sexual urges are stronger). Please don't give us religious references on the "halalness" of polygamy. We already know that. Please don't give us examples of how other men are worse than you. These are all defensive arguments. Instead......why don't you answer our questions on how you plan to address the emotional insecurity issues that will result in your multiple wives and multiple children due to polygamy?
QUOTE]
Re: 4 Wives
At least something is obvious, Deela knows how to make some people go crazy...
Come on guppies!
It should be enough to say there are so many problems with polygamy than settling with one.
But if we start counting just on problems then even one 'could be' too many!
Re: 4 Wives
I think when Deela says he want to keep 4 and keep them all happy, he probably means it only in the bedroom dept. Maybe he is still a kid who is living on his dad’s income. He probably thinks that he can share dad’s allowance equally among the 4. Like a candy.
Grow up Deela! :rollingmyeyes:
Re: 4 Wives
I have four wives and I am pretty happy.
Ok Ladies Deela is back:
I will concisely address the points raised in one post.
1) I dont back up Polgamy from the 'Prophets sunnah'. 'Sunnah' means 'lifestyle/tradition of something. You could have the 'sunnah' of Muhammad (pbuh), or you could have the 'sunnah' of H.Umer or you could have the sunnah of the 'marai masa' tribe of kenya.
Since the Prophet (pbuh) was infallible, he did only right and good, therefore it is 'recommended' to look at him. And hence whatever is part of his sunnah **is Allowable. **The Prophet (pbuh) came to teach how to live.
I did not use the sunnah of nabi-pak and/or his sahabies to say I am recommended/obligated to follow him. I stated that merely as counter-argument to the lady who tried fatwaing me from the koran that men should not be polygamous. - Word of advice, before people extract random ayats or hadiths they should ensure they also have correct comprehension- else they mislead themselves and others.
2) Ladies often mock men about thier uncontrolleble and pervy desires. Ok lets assume in that Big-Picture God did not give men the urges. Thus, We men would remain 'throughout rational' and realise you are infact big burdens and dont extremly need you and can continue on peacefully until maybe 30-35 when our careers and resources are ideal to marry- but by that the woman reproductive clock is near to end- and unideal for them to marry. Hence it will be WOMENS ULTIMATE LOSS- if men did not have the strong sexual need.--the need which inclines them to marry soon.
Assuming the above scenario, some men will possibly prefer to 'go-without' marriage throughout thier lives and happily avoid the many burdens that come along.
The world population of women has always been higher than men and if the all the above happened there will be more women left unmarried. Civilisation would cease.
So- Why there are so social problems today- This is because today is not like the day 1400 years ago day. Then Life was 'simpler'. Boys-Men could marry at a younger ages because a four walled clay/brick house easily contructeble and basic amenities easily achievable would be enough to suffice families.
Todays world compared to the past one is totally different dimension as we know.
It takes usually more time for a man to become independant and fully resourceful,
However bio-makup is still identica, and if there is a strong and consistant urge, they will logically have trouble resisting it for so long.
IM not sideing with either gender- just saying the truth.
2) The issue of the offspring generated from the associated additional wives is a serious one. Branches of families emerging I agree is not good for future peace. Yes I do not prefer do this. So this marriage option cancelled.
However, where theres still remains a way: There are many needy pakistani 'pretty widows' having few kids or a needy paki barren/divorced women who would be more than happy to take a second place as opposed to no other place.
To many in Pak some kind of deal would be better than no ever deal.
And since I am a principled man, both parties would be made absolutely clear before marriage about expectations in this case.
And As earlier requested for no quotations, I will not. But let me confidently tell you it is not unislamic to desire a women for her beauty or sexual feature'.
Furthermore, This exemplified by the way many desire the other sex for thier money, wealth, property, fame, education, character, green card, or other 'charms'
C'mon **We All Do It. - **some are open some not.
4) My assertion of a SUPER FIRST WIFE: Ok understood in many cases she would not approve of second wife.
But lets say even if she were SUPER (By Allahs grace) in all. We 'silly' men often still get 'bored' of the same thing dont we. And I Worry about this.
Ok I be damn upfront and say it: I also want a taste of more than one women in my life. I like them.
If you ladies agree we men have polygamous natures. Then u shud understand we feel that way, and men operating daily in modern City enviroments will be bombareded daily by the fitna of different women- especially if you are working closely on somthing.
Yes, **** men are indeed 'selfish' and curb to thier attraction in the hope it will remain hidden from wives. Some men are maybe 'unsatisfied' by thier current relation- and need a different release.
Or occasionally a really beautiful, nice, unrejectable girl may approach a good man herself- A time when the best of duded are tested.
Now ladies: a combo of:
strong innate feelings + constant plethora of stimulants = Trouble in Head.
And added, some ladies are some women are 'purposly' and 'ruthlessly' out there to get 'that' man.
Yeh I know this all sounds a babyish upfront but I am simply telling you what goes in every modern mans mind! Those men who say or act like they dont-- they lie.
Ofcourse some of us have strong Iman. But we're all men at day end.
OK you ladies dissallowed and refuted all my arguments having a girlfriend before marriage. -I submitted to that.
Naturally, now talking about Legal ladies post marriage - still you seem to have a problem!
I know it all sounds babyyish, and I easily know I could stop all this jibberish, by doing do the biz behind backs.
But that dont suit me.
And i cant ask this stuff to a fair lady in person-
Thats why I am asking for your advice!
Pls be patient and understanding and somwhat comrpimsing before bashing. :)
OK Cool.
Yes thanks for reading mi essay.
(apologies from spelling mistakes.- wrote fast.)
Re: 4 Wives
Dude - you should watch flick Garam Masala. Then you'd learn the Poly-handleing techniques.
Ok Ladies Deela is back:
I will concisely address the points raised in one post.
1) I dont back up Polgamy from the 'Prophets sunnah'. 'Sunnah' means 'lifestyle/tradition of something. You could have the 'sunnah' of Muhammad (pbuh), or you could have the 'sunnah' of H.Umer or you could have the sunnah of the 'marai masa' tribe of kenya.
**Since the Prophet (pbuh) was infallible, he did only right and good, therefore it is 'recommended' to look at him. And hence whatever is part of his sunnah is Allowable. **The Prophet (pbuh) came to teach how to live. I did not use the sunnah of nabi-pak and/or his sahabies to say I am recommended/obligated to follow him. I stated that merely as counter-argument to the lady who tried fatwaing me from the koran that men should not be polygamous. - Word of advice, before people extract random ayats or hadiths they should ensure they also have correct comprehension- else they mislead themselves and others.
***ONLY allowable* if you're able to treat them exactly the same in terms of time spent and in material things**. The way u have phrased it makes it sound as tho any man can go out and just do it just because Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) did it.
My brother's fiancee's uncle has two wives over here in the UK. The story is actually pretty sad. He was taken over to Bangladesh and forced to marry someone (there was another girl he had wanted instead but she was 'unsuitable'). Anyway wife no.1 came over and when the truth all came out she begged him not to divorce her as she would prob have trouble 'back home' finding someone else to marry her. He tried to do talaq but was told for some strange reason that the talaq wasn't valid (I'm guessing it was by some cultural imam who believed he should just obey his parents, I mean forced marriages are meant to be automatically invalid anyway). He still had feelings for the original girl and the wife from 'back home' said she'd accept him marrying her so he went ahead and did so. I do think it'd kinda messy tho, in terms if UK law the second wife has virtually no rights if he ends up in hospital on life support or something and the kids from wife no.2 are technically illegitimate (yes, I know it's not a big deal for non-Muslims but seriously it's not exactly ideal in terms of security, is it). The whole situation that was described made me so uncomfortable but being honest I guess I blame his parents, knowing he wanted to marry a certain girl them shipping him off 'back home' to force him to marry someone else :(
Re: 4 Wives
I till this day have yet to hear a story where a man who marries more then one wife is happy and the wives are also happy.
Re: 4 Wives
^ or the kids..
Re: 4 Wives
^ go to saudia arabia. The wives look more happy than any lady. Trust me
any-how Deela-mia clearly illutsrated a way round creating kids from new wife-without being unfair to anybody.
Hes a master mind yeh. Or maye he shud just do and get over his polu humping b4 marriage since everyone is so averse to his post marrge legal outlets.
^** go to saudia arabia. The wives look more happy than any lady. Trust me**
Hopefully this is not based on assumptions, and if its not, thats great for them. However, there are still more people unhappy in such situations than vice versa.
Re: 4 Wives
No assumption
Seen with ma own naked eye and more than once. Usually it took me time to figure what the second similarl age lady was with the man Lukcy the arab dude didnt see me checking out his pretty wives. - (Although he was unsurprisngly bold and fat himself)
But i figured it ----boy they seemed comfortable.--
Even here i have seen arab immgrants ladies roaming around like sisters.
Im not saying its for all- But these arab women sure take it well.
Re: 4 Wives
Nutwer, do you realize everyone knows why you're posting in Deela's thread?
^ go to saudia arabia. The wives look more happy than any lady. Trust me
any-how Deela-mia clearly illutsrated a way round creating kids from new wife-without being unfair to anybody.
Hes a master mind yeh. Or maye he shud just do and get over his polu humping b4 marriage since everyone is so averse to his post marrge legal outlets.
I've been there thanx, my Dad worked for the King Fahd Hospital for a while in the 80s..
Saudi Arabia has amongst the highest divorce rates in the world (60% in some parts) so I doubt that veneer of happiness u reckon u've seen in polygynous marriages is all it seems..
You also mentioned a man and his 'wives' looking happy in a shopping mall lol no offence but that's pretty shaky I mean how do u know those women weren't sisters or even his daughters..
I am not saying the setup never works, only that one shoud be v.v.cautious and it tends to only work well in societies where all the wives and families can have legal status, the person can actually afford to keep these families (in time and monetary terms) and they know in advance of what is going to happen, not this whole thing of 'living a lie' where a man disappears for half the week then it all comes out months or years down the line and wife and kids are left devastated..
Re: 4 Wives
Ok I havent looked at this thread.
But I say the girl who have most posts here should be Deela's first wife. so lets count.
Re: 4 Wives
i lived in the middle east for 13 years of which ten were in saudi arabia....
most women in polygamous marriages over there are not too happy about it but have learned to accept it as a way of life...why? because it is so common around them
thoase of them that seem happy have either just accepted this as reality or are happy because they each have a separate house and their hubby spends and equal amount of time with all....
and may be some of them are ecstaticlly happy
but i fail to understand a woman who is happy sharing her man...or a man who is dumb enough to think he can handle multiple wives in the correct islamic manner which is to treat them all equally, provide separate abodes for each, etc.
i would advise mr. nutwer to not make assumptions of the wives' happiness or lack thereof just based on what he sees from the outside looking in...because...looks can be deceiving and most of the time are
Ok I havent looked at this thread. But I say the girl who have most posts here should be Deela's first wife. so lets count.
ITS RV with 15 posts.
deela you lucky dog.