when priorities of life are not Iman and taqwa, and we keep we judging people on how well they dress up or how many degrees they posses or how big and stuffed their house is, then we are bound to be punished.
so whether people get married at the age of 20 or 30, I see everyone in misery, because ppl are marrying for all the wrong reasons, to satisfy their hunger. No one is marrying to find a good father or mother for their future generation, or who can help them be a better person.
you've used some harsh words here. why do you call it a punishment? i like to call it things not working out/bad luck. you are correct when you say that people who marry for all the wrong reasons may not find happiness in their married lives. may not because there are plenty of cases where things turn out to be just fine.
If that was the case, I don’t think you’d see these desi requirements of “larki needs to be 18-24 please, thankoo” from the aunty crowd, the same aunties who tout themselves as being masters of such Iman and Taqwa in their family, as judged by the repeated inquiries as to why they’re the only ones in the family praying.
Yup, yup and yup. I have debt on my head, I’m not in a position where I can be anything but picky. I’ve been in debt and working since 19 in fact. So my threshold has been very different than other girls around me whose financial support came 100% from their daddies. I can’t afford to get married into a family that demands I sit at home, I have to pay off educational debt.
I think desi families just don’t get that aspect, because so many of them are used to getting bahu’s from Pakistan who are educated, where education doesn’t come on loans, rather is paid upfront. So the MBA’s, and MBBS’s, and engineers, and lawyers and phd’s they can fetch from there are 1) younger, since the education system is more abbreviated and 2) they don’t have debt, so amma ji can easily force her darling educated bahu to sit at home while she boasts about how her bahu is a daactarni and treats the entire family for free. :k:
Meanwhile they run into educated girls here, and then they can’t figure out why it becomes Battleship to get the bahu to sit at home when she needs to work.
I'm disturbed by the amount of people on this thread who ASSUME that somebody who does get married in their early twenties HAS to be UNeducated ??!! What ??
Im 23, got married when I was 22. My husband is 4 years older than me. And I'm very proud to say that mashAllah we are both well educated to masters level. We both hold undergraduate and masters degrees, my husband in electrical engineering and I in biology. mashAllah my husband is very intelligent, educated AND young, as am I. And I also currently work as a school teacher here in the uk, so im not jobless, as some people on this thread have also assumed about people who marry young.
mashAllah my husband makes me very very happy and I in no way regret getting married at this age at all :)
Just thought I would share a story about people who got married young and are also educated with jobs.
It would be great if people would stop assuming that ONLY women who choose to be educated and 'make something of themselves' decide to get married later and anybody who gets married early must be useless with no education and nothing better to do in life. Pretty insulting to those of us who are married young and educated right??
And also extremely presumptuous of some particular people.
In the US, most masters degrees are gotten by the mid-20's at least. Here, we graduate high school at 18/19, then attend four year institutions, and then attend masters programs which sometimes take extra effort and time off for some people to even get into. So, from our perspective here in the States, your situation is vastly accelerated.
Completely agree with you on this. One of my cousins,who was a recent graduate in her early 20s, was talking to a guy who straight up asked her if she has a student loan, and if she does how much is it and when does she plan to pay it off by. So really, many guys also don’t want wives who have debts as they themselves have their own loans to pay off. Honestly, it’s just crazy the amount of hardships some people have to go through to find their life partners. I hope our generation learns some lessons and so we don’t put our kids through this.
Most of the single girls in our social circle, that are in their late 20's and 30's and are having difficulties getting married are the same girls that mocked their friends and cousins when they got married right after college or even during undergrad. These were the girls that took perverse pleasure in turning down good rishtas when they were 21/22, instead making fun of the backward mentalities of families who would even consider getting married before they got XYZ diplomas or whatever.
These girls were then dumbfounded to discover that once they had completed their journey of self discovery, saving the planet, world tour, racking up degrees and scoring cushy six figure gigs,** that there wasn't a line of eligible bachelors patiently waiting for the opportunity to whisk them away to their dream wedding. **
The point is, yes it takes compromises, sacrifices, and you can't have everything your own way and at the schedule that is most convenient for you. The world just doesn't work that way. You might have to move, you might have to push back some of your plans or even give up on some of them. Sure, some people get lucky and it all works out. But to assume that is always going to be the case, despite plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise, is just naive. At the end of the day, it's about priorities. You strive to achieve what is important to you.
A lots of assumptions and generalization here once again. When you say most of the single girls that are in their late 20's or 30's - how many girls do you know with these circumstances exactly?
The other possibility is to consider is that in some families, the topic of boys is pretty much taboo. Girls are supposed to focus on their academic, familial, and religious obligations. Any romantic relationships are expressly forbidden. Then suddenly the girl hits the 22-24 range, parents want her to get married, but don't know how to start the process. Many suddenly want her to start giving opinions about guys she meets, when this is not something she has ever been encouraged to discuss in the past. They may even set her up with people (with or without informing her) who are completely not what she is looking for, but because the topic is difficult or awkward to broach, often they don't realize how far apart their expectations are from hers (about the process, about the guy, etc). I think that this happens to many US-born girls who have been raised in an environment that is so different from their parents', and parents themselves are at a loss about how to start the process if their girls are the first in the generation that need to go through it because they haven't seen how it has worked for others. Add that to the "log kya kahenge" mentality that can be so restrictive, and a lot of girls end up getting turned off by the "rishta" and marriage process, and meeting potential spouses gets delayed.
No girl I know has been encouraged to marry before she has completed AT LEAST a bachelors. And many have gotten graduate degrees before or during their marriages, if they were so inclined or if it was appropriate for their fields. It is only as they complete their degrees that most parents want the girls to START the process. I think it can take time to find the right person. It even takes time to figure how you want the process to work (chai trolley visits from guys' families vs more independent coffee dates, etc) and how much involvement you want from parents, families, friends, etc. And sometimes you need to practice to figure what questions to ask and how to ask those questions. And it's only through going through the process that you figure out your priorities, what you're willing to be flexible about, what you must have in a spouse, etc. I don't think everyone needs to be married off in their early/mid twenties. Some people are just not in the right place in their lives, and it is not fair to force the same life expectations on everyone. But it doesn't hurt to be open to the possibility of finding a partner for life. You never know when it could happen.
I think we all need to remember that we only know certain pockets of the international Pakistani community. Sweeping generalizations are unproductive. That is what's so nice about a place like GS -- it allows us to step outside of our family and social experiences and see how other Pakistani communities address/handle various issues/topics. If we are open to it, we can actually learn a lot from the other posters here. The generalizations will only frustrate us and close us off from others.
In the US, most masters degrees are gotten by the mid-20's at least. Here, we graduate high school at 18/19, then attend four year institutions, and then attend masters programs which sometimes take extra effort and time off for some people to even get into. So, from our perspective here in the States, your situation is vastly accelerated.
A regular Masters takes the same amount of time in Pakistan as it does in the US. You finish your intermediate by 18, get into college (if you can afford to) and put in four years to get your Bachelor's degree (that's how long my undergrad took). Again if your parents can afford to get you into a Masters program you start your grad school right away. If parents can't afford another 2 years of school, you look for a job.
The American Med School is a whole different kind of mess. And you can't blame the Pakistanis for not wasting 4 years on college before Med school. It takes a decade for one to become a doctor, with no fancy specializations. That's just inefficient. No wonder the American health care system is so *********, despite all the money that goes into it.
you've used some harsh words here. why do you call it a punishment? i like to call it things not working out/bad luck. you are correct when you say that people who marry for all the wrong reasons may not find happiness in their married lives. may not because there are plenty of cases where things turn out to be just fine.
when someone dont see the obvious despite having access to it then to me its not a badluck it is just an option they preferred. To be very honest, when Allah sWT makes one deaf, blind and mute even though they can hear, talk and see all the bad things, to me it is their punishment.
Usually people associate luck with wealth, and comfort of throwing money on useless material, otherwise if we see the lives the one we should be following, ( Prophets, and Sahaba RA), we can easily formulate that we are born privileged.
i.e.
1. if i am unemployed for lets say 4 years then people consider me very unlucky, in fact they might even think that someone might have had cast some magic on me.
2. or if my husband buy my 10 suits for this eid then am the most luckiest girl on the planet
3. or If i am robbed, instead of thinking that may be I didn't earn those few moment a halal way. and Allah SWT dont want to punish me, He SWT might have saved me from using that money on myself.
now if we see lives of the Chosen ones:
Prophet Ibrahim AS, left his wife and son in the desert.
Prophet Yaqoob AS gave up his son so he can be tested
Proohet Yousuf AS spent 9 years in prison
Prophet Daud AS and Suleman AS, even though they were Kings but they used to do their own little things to feed their families.
Prophet Musa AS, Esa AS, Ayub AS, Yahya AS, Zakriya AS and Prophet Muhammad PBUH (who in fact barely slept at night time, who was an orphan, buried almost all his children with his own hands, who spent his day and night on how his Ummah gonna be like on the day of judgement)...........the fact is these people, even though their one prayer could have earned everything of this world and hereafter but they didnt because
now tell me what would you say, what is luck and what is not?
look around yourself, from the birth of a child to the unimaginable and undiscovered depth of oceans, nothing is normal, so why is it so hard for us to imagine that Allah SWT can put love for me in anyone’s heart?
I particularly dont try to convince aunties that how good I am or how good I will be to them and to their son, or I will be the best thing ever happened to them? I rather focus on how to be a better person, so Allah SWT is pleased with, since He SWT is a better match-maker.
I dont know why there is such a hangup when young eligible bachelors in their mid 20's (24-26) knock on your doors and ask for girls rishta.They get rejected on the basis that the guy is not "settled" The girl parents say that he is studying for Masters currently or he has just started his career and not earning enough money.The question is asked that how he will manage the finances?So they reject such guys.Its such a sad state of affairs.
I don't know why but i have seen really really great guys are missed by ladies in this way.These ladies go on to marry men in their 30's with big tonds and executives and then later on they realize they have made a mistake.This is such a strange dilemma of our Muslim societies today that one wonders do we even have iman on Allah ??Allah is the best planner.He takes care of all matters for us.Why we contemplate about "how" will we manage our finances in future? "how" will we study after marriage?"how"will we do our dream job after marriage? "How" will we become rich after marriage because we have wasted our time marrying and raising kids rather than investing time on earning six figures ?"How" will he make me happy when his wallet is not hot. We need to understand that Our creator knows this "HOW". It is only because of such low iman on Allah that we resort to these rejections and then we come on these forums to discuss such things.
Haven't you read the stories of great men and women ? Men like Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan,General Pervaiz Musharraf ,Shaukat Aziz ,Warren Buffet or women like Seema Aziz of Care Foundation etc(I have read their biographies) If you read their histories,you'll realize that they all married young ! By 25 they were all married.Later on,they went on to lead millions of people in their nations.They didn't think about that "How" when they married so young according to today's standards.
The point is we need to have strong iman on Allah when we plan about things.I am not saying that don't get bachelor degree which should be minimum for everyone or at worst marry at 18.I am only saying that we need to have our focus in the right place as a society.We don't need to reject people on the basis of financial disparity.You'll miss diamonds in this way.This goes for both men and women.Also,i am not saying that say yes to every young joe coming your way.Keep a look out for young ambitious guys.
I can't believe how Shallow pakistani girls can be at times. They are basically continuing the whole idea of "Prince in shinning" armor. "Oh if he doesn't get his ass shredded in a classroom he can't make in the real world. Or if he doesn't have doctorate in astrophysics while having an MBA in Jewology and a minor of dentistry he's not worthy. Seriously lower your expectation. My dad won a lottery and came here and made a pretty good living for himself. You need determination and a will to never fail to succeed in life not a petty degree. If you do marry men like that then I'm sad to sad that you're marry mindless drones who know how to push buttons in society. Men who have no self expression. Good look with that. Ok Rant over.
Completely agree with you on this. One of my cousins,who was a recent graduate in her early 20s, was talking to a guy who straight up asked her if she has a student loan, and if she does how much is it and when does she plan to pay it off by. So really, many guys also don't want wives who have debts as they themselves have their own loans to pay off. Honestly, it's just crazy the amount of hardships some people have to go through to find their life partners. I hope our generation learns some lessons and so we don't put our kids through this.
Someone very close..has recently got a rishta. They guy was asking a girl..to pay off her debt..before she marries him. It was love marriage arrangment. Those kind of fellas....may Allah help them..
I got married when i was 19, I was busy with house chores, looking after his grand parents when my friends were enjoying their college lives, partying, dating.Now, I have a6 year old son mashallah and a very stable life and most of my friends are educated but dhawan doll!Now i feel blessed that my parents made the best decision for me, alhamdolilah.I really feel sorry for my friends who waited for years for guys to marry them, university love, got played and now left over.
^ Aw how sweet. I hope your bubble doesn't burst when something bad happens to the one wage earner in the family.
I know many similar girls who got married in their teens. Some of them realized they hate asking their husband for money or permission to buy things, so they went back to school and did something or the other, but often faced a LOT of opposition from the family. One girl - her husband landed in jail, so she is SOL. A few others - found their husbands had to engage in criminal activity to "keep up with the Qureishi's" so to speak to maintain the lifestyle required to sharbaat-drink and dine with other paki families. So those girls are having problems. Some of them got divorced and are now single at 30.
Furthermore, our community NEEDS educated women who will PARTICIPATE in the community and change it for the better, so why look down upon those women.
If anything, it's the young brides we feel sorry for. They really get screwed over when life does them in, and they don't have any insurance in the form of education/job to help them along.
Just go on these dating websites, there is a line of Pakistani girls in their late 20’s mid 30’s who are docs, specialists and generalists, and it took everyone about a decade to train, hence why they’re late in the marriage process. Do you blame THEM and their FAMILIES for not looking? No, they’re usually in the social circle, families usually know these girls exist - everyone makes it a business to know who’s kids got into med school, law school, engineering and business schools these days, because for desi parents other careers are non-existent. So it’s not like the girl is unheard of, USUALLY.
It’s that the American female med student/resident is not able to step out of her training, get married, abandon the training and sit at home. By the time you’re done with your bachelors, you often have loans EVEN if you got scholarships. Some of us are lucky to have gotten a lot of scholarship money, but most pay for even their undergrad to some percentage.
The average DEBT a MEDICAL graduate is in is roughly :
Taken from AMSA’s website - up to 2003, so the figures are worse now:
“The median debt burden for graduates of public medical institutions has risen to over $119,000 while that for private school graduates has increased to nearly $150,000.”
Thats just MED school debt, not including undergraduate, and not including all the interest that accumulates while you’re in residency / fellowship. Many girls don’t even make it to fellowships and further subspecializations because of the whole marriage issue in fact, and even in non-desi cultures you’ll see more women than men going into generalized fields, simply because they need to start families.
Law school grads > 100,000 dollars in debt on average: Just How Bad Off Are Law School Graduates? | TIME.com → you know what sucks for these guys? Jobs in the US declined substantially during the bailout recession period under Bush, so there is now a MAJOR excess of law school graduates and not enough jobs. Went to someone’s graduation recently - about half their graduating class is UNEMPLOYED. Imagine that. At least even a dumb doctor can get a job these days to pay off their loans, the law school kids do not have that even. MAJOR decision factor that in my community back home, a number of girls wanted to go to law school, then backed out when they did their financial planning with their families. Reason? Because with that debt and age after graduation, rishtas would be hard to find, so they got married instead. And guess what? When YOU look around for a muslim lawyer, or wish there was more legal representation for muslims in this country, DO NOT COMPLAIN. Aap ki jaano potential lawyers are sitting home making you rotis.
Business school: MBA’s (at least the good ones, do not come cheap) - also > 100,000 K
I can’t find a good article on engineering school debt, but I guess that depends on whether you go the Bachelors of Engineering option and find entry level jobs, or if you go for a masters, in which cases, companies often pay for the masters, but not always! I know IT engineering people who are doing their masters WHILE working. A lot of women don’t go into engineering sadly, so maybe it’s not so applicable to this thread.
Maybe that's why a lot of parents turn to Pakistan and India to get a bride, they don't need to deal with the financial hassle of taking an American-board desi girl who is 100K in debt.
LOL I had nooo clue what was happening when I was in my early 20s, living in a very happy bubble, didn't care if someone liked me or not. Then several life incidents opened my eyes up to the world but then life became about searching for a purpose. I couldn't get myself to think about men in that time...not every woman in her late 20s or 30s was busy making a career. Some just wanted to find meaning in life without making Someone else a part of their confused self.
To me there seem to be many more girls saying 'I wish I had waited a bit' than 'I wish I married earlier'..
Obviously they exist but I can literally only think of one or two I've ever come across who fit into the latter category.. Parents tend to panic with daughters but aren't the girls who wait a little bit usually perfectly fine in the end?
I think it's a huge bonus being able to start married life not being dependent on anyone (parents, inlaws or partner)..
