Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Dunya News: World:-Accused US soldier flown out of Afghanistan…=
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Angry Afghan Lawmakers Demand Shooting Suspect Be Tried In Afghanistan | Fox News
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Isnt it ridiculous that this idiot is being flown out from Afghanistan just like that. Karzai should stop co-operation with US atleast for the time being. This would help him being shown as a leader who cares for his people.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
The US media is portraying him as an accomplished solider and a psychiatric patient who dealt blows to his head during Iraq war. In other words they are trying to justify why he did it. But these same people accuse Muslims of siding with Muslim terrorists when Muslims try to give reasons of why they did it.
Plain hypocrisy.
If any Muslim had done it to a Westerner then he would have immediately be declared a terrorist.
Having said that, I also think that: he jurm e zaeefi ki saza marg e mafajaat.
There is no point looking for justice from Westerners. They do this because they can. And instead of crying for justice, the Muslims need to develop economically without depending on ties with the West.
That is one secret the*motay had-haraam* petrol Arabs don't understand.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
This incident has bolstered Taliban in Afghanistan.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
The US media is portraying him as an accomplished solider and a psychiatric patient who dealt blows to his head during Iraq war. In other words they are trying to justify why he did it. But these same people accuse Muslims of siding with Muslim terrorists when Muslims try to give reasons of why they did it. Plain hypocrisy.
If any Muslim had done it to a Westerner then he would have immediately be declared a terrorist.
Having said that, I also think that: he jurm e zaeefi ki saza marg e mafajaat. There is no point looking for justice from Westerners. They do this because they can. And *instead of crying for justice, the Muslims need to develop economically without depending on ties with the West. * That is one secret the*motay had-haraam* petrol Arabs don't understand.
QFT!
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article7575685.ece/ALTERNATES/w380/IA17-42-Fisk.jpg
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
They are all deranged. there is a reason there is a high suicide, murder and psychopath rate amongst returning soldiers...they get a buzz from killing and thats not there anymore.
These frankensteins are simply out of control.
The media is responsible too. I dont see many covering the innocent victims and their families. yet they're making every excuse in the book for these monsters who deserve nothing worse than hell. and I have every faith justice will be served, and it wont be by thier government.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Why don't I see @CENTCOM posting in this thread?
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
There were more than one soldier involved in this massacre and then after killing they burnt the dead bodies, the Americans first tried to portray as if it was done by one person and now they are trying to portray the person as deranged and stressed out.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
More than one US soldier involved in massacre: Afghan president | Al Akhbar English
Afghanistan’s president suggested on Friday that more than one US soldier was involved in the massacring of 16 Afghan civilians in two villages last week.
American officials reported that a “rogue” soldier left a US military base last Sunday and killed the 16 Afghans, including a number of children, without the help of any colleagues.
**In an emotional meeting with relatives of the shooting victims, President Hamid Karzai said the villagers’ accounts of the massacre were widely different from the scenario depicted by US military officials.
**
The relatives and villagers insisted that it was impossible for one gunmen to kill nine children, four men and three women in three houses in two different villages near the US combat outpost in southern Afghanistan.
Karzai pointed to one of the villagers from Panjwai district of Kandahar province and said:
**“In his family, in four rooms people were killed – children and women were killed – and then they were all brought together in one room and then set on fire. That, one man cannot do.”
**
**Karzai said the delegation he sent to Kandahar province to investigate the shootings did not receive the expected cooperation from the United States.
**
He said many questions remained about what occurred, and he would be raising the questions with the US military “very loudly.”
**The US military had no comment on Karzai’s remarks.
**
The soldier involved in the killings has not been identified, but officials have said the 38-year-old is based out of Washington state. He was transferred late Wednesday to a facility in Kuwait and then left there Friday, according to the Kuwaiti state news agency and a senior US defense official.
The soldier was expected to be flown to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, the defense official said. Leavenworth is the military’s only maximum-security prison.
Afghan officials have condemned the decision to allow him to leave rather than face trial in the country where the killings took place.
The incident has reverberated through the already complicated relations between the US and Afghanistan, undermining plans for US troops to remain in Afghanistan after the official NATO withdrawal by the end of 2014.
**The Afghan leader stressed that he wants a good relationship with the international community, but that it was becoming increasingly difficult in light of airstrikes that miss their targets, leaving civilians dead, and raising opposition to night operations where troops raid homes looking for insurgents.
**
“This has been going on for too long,” he said at the presidential palace. “You have heard me before. It is by all means the end of the rope here…This form of activity, this behavior cannot be tolerated. It is past, past, past the time.”
NATO has said that night operations have been instrumental in rounding up mid-level commanders and Taliban bomb makers. The coalition says more than 90 percent of night operations are done alongside Afghan forces and that more than 85 percent are conducted without any shots fired.
The United Nations has reported that last year was the deadliest on record for civilians in the Afghan war, with 3,021 killed as insurgents ratcheted up violence with suicide attacks and roadside bombs.
On Thursday, Karzai demanded that international forces pull out of rural areas because the fight was not in the villages.
Afghan officials said Karzai made his request to pull back from the villages now during a meeting on Thursday with US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
US officials said, however, that he did not tell Panetta that it should happen immediately.
Karzai said President Barack Obama called him Friday morning to ask him about the demand to withdraw from villages.
“Yesterday, I said clearly that the Americans should leave our villages,” Karzai said. "This morning, Obama called regarding this issue. He asked, ‘Did you announce this?’ I said, “Yes, I announced it.'”
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
I think the ‘deranged’ is part of a spin to put it all on tired soldiers under tough operating conditions etc etc etc, the excuses like you say. Not, instead, on the kind of political and social environment that means that Afghan/Muslim people are viewed with contempt. There is a reason why this badge below is a best seller, along with ‘christian crusader’ amongst active duty military personnel. There is a disgusting rationality at play here that has everything to do with American bigotry towards Islam and Muslims in general. These people are no different from the kind who would protest a mosque being built in tennessee and puts pigs heads there. The only difference is, they are allowed the means to go into towns and brutalize men women and children who they feel are subhuman anyway.
Note that not only is it written in english, its written in a language understandable to afghans/iraqies. Lovely people.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Thisguy details the bigoted culture prevalent in the American military. He seems to think that doesnt explain why he murdered the people because other bigots didnt go and kill civilians. What he misses is that for every million white supremacist theres one Anders Breivik.
Some quotes
The reason why junior high boys use the term ‘gay’ as an insult is because there is an underlying prejudice there, which results in more serious violence by a smaller number of individuals.
Military life in general does seem to have an environment that creates monsters. The old line of bad apples is worn thin now. Pissing on dead corpses, killing kids after attracting them with sweets, collecting kills as trophies. I suppose he cant paint general military life as filled with prejudice, as the military is such a sacred cow in America.
America needs to create this environment to keep its soldiers fighting and killing an enemy that otherwise poses no threat to their country. Blame the soldier, sure, but imo this is an another indictment of the culture and institutionally prevalent bigotry.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
why do you say the “bad apple” line is worn out? the validation of the bad apple logic involves only a numerator and a denominator. i think it’s as valid as ever given the enormity of the soldier population in question, even if you multiply the deplorable incidents by 10 to account for those going unreported.
the aggregate number of soldiers who have been deployed in iraq and afghanistan over the last decade would be the population of a major US city. any given population will have a sizeable number of bullies, bigots, and criminals including murderers…and the war context will obviously amplify those inclinations. if the guy who killed 16 afghans hadn’t joined the military, he would’ve probably been one of those evening news stories about an employee somewhere in missouri showing up to work with a gun and mowing down a dozen people…or perhaps an angry bigot who kills a couple sardars after 9/11. nobody would dispute that such killers are bad apples.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Now it seems as if he is trying to portray himself as mad…
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Why don't I see @CENTCOM posting in this thread?
Could the guy who murdered those people be the same CENTCOM guy?!
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
why do you say the "bad apple" line is worn out? the validation of the bad apple logic involves only a numerator and a denominator. i think it's as valid as ever given the enormity of the soldier population in question, even if you multiply the deplorable incidents by 10 to account for those going unreported. the aggregate number of soldiers who have been deployed in iraq and afghanistan over the last decade would be the population of a major US city. any given population will have a sizeable number of bullies, bigots, and criminals including murderers...and the war context will obviously amplify those inclinations. if the guy who killed 16 afghans hadn't joined the military, he would've probably been one of those evening news stories about an employee somewhere in missouri showing up to work with a gun and mowing down a dozen people...or perhaps an angry bigot who kills a couple sardars after 9/11. nobody would dispute that such killers are bad apples.
The numerator/denominator logic basically means that neo-nazism has nothing to do with Anders Breivik, or a suicide bomber was merely a bad apple amongst religious zealots, or acid throwing guys are merely a bad apples and not indicative of the culture they arise from. There are always far more in the denominator than in the numerator. Even at the worst of times for black people in the American south, only a small minority of people ever took part in lynchings.
The point of the links above, apart from the many, many incidents where religious bigotry has been the underlying cause of shocking crimes, is that this mentality is much more widespread than the isolated whackjob. That is a claim that cannot (usually) be made of aggregate statistics of random crime. Yes there may be sub-cultures where rape is joked about, or women are taunted with or threatened with assault. When someone from that group actually commits the rape dont then say it has nothing to do with the culture.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
Did you guys notice, how no one calls him a terrorist. If an afghan had killed just one soldier, who would be a grown-up armed man, he'd be labelled a terrorist. On the other hand, a guy who goes out and kills un-armed women and children is 'deranged' and might've had a 'breakdown.'
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
I think that apart from the fact that they flew the guy to USA instead of trial taking place in Afghanistan, they are handling the case properly. Even the Defense Lawyer of the guy said that he has very little hope that prosecutors are not going to hit him with the toughest of the charges.
Re: 16 civilians killed by US soldier!!!
^ The Afghans believe that the murder was carried out by more than one Americans. It seems as if the Americans are trying to hide the facts. First they were saying that there was one man involved, now they are trying to portray him as insane.‘Mr president, I want an answer’ - Features - Al Jazeera English](‘Mr President, I want an answer’ | Features | Al Jazeera)
The Afghan president had no answers.
An emotional Hamid Karzai, flanked by his senior officials, listened patiently on Friday, as families of the 16 victims recounted the US soldier’s pre-dawn shooting spree in southern Kandahar province.
**The distraught elders, in heartfelt speeches, spoke of personal loss, hopelessness and demanded justice. Almost all of them insisted that, contrary to US military statements, more than one soldier was involved in the massacre.
After the meeting, Karzai echoed the elders’ concern, seeming convinced by the stories he had heard.****“In his family, in four rooms people were killed - children and women were killed - and then they were all brought together in one room and then set on fire. That, one man cannot do,” the president told reporters.**
Below is a translated and transcribed excerpt of some of the conversation during the meeting.
Karzai:*** "After hearing about this painful, heart wrenching incident, I called Assadullah Khaled minister of tribal affairs and special coordinator for south]. He said they were on their way, going to the scene of the incident… he and members of the provincial council… Million and millions of thanks to you that amid such [a] painful, heart-wrenching incident, you still accepted them and received them and talked to them… and many thanks for accepting my call and speaking to me. In such circumstances, where there is a government here, there is a system and a president here, and a foreigner comes and kills your children and yet you have the patience to speak to that president - it’s a big thing… it humbles us.
Brother of victim Mohamed Dawood: "My brother, who the Americans martyred, we had left him behind to take care of our plot of land, irrigate it. For god’s sake, think about it: he has six children. Hundreds of thousands of incidents like this have happened in Afghanistan.
Karzai,** nodding in approval: “Has happened.”**
***Victim’s brother: ***"I have heard it on radio. I don’t have a television, but I have listened to radio… He was lying down with his children, it was two or three in the morning. Deduce for yourself, whether you are president, minister, or a soldier…
*Karzai nods in approval.
*
Victim’s brother: "If somebody enters somebody’s home - a foreigner who speaks English and he speaks Pashto. He brings him to the door, where another holds a gun to him and says “Taliban!” Where were Taliban there? This area was near the American base.
*He points to minister Khaled sitting across from him.
"The minister saw the area, he is in front of us. If I am exaggerating, we have witnesses here. The minister, Haji Agha Lalai.. all of those who are here… When my brother’s wife recounts the story… she says the Americans came and took him by the left hand and said ‘Taliban Taliban’. Another comes and hits him in the head with a gun. I filled a pot with his brains. Another American goes and holds a gun to his six-month-old son, Hazratullah. And she pleads him in god’s name… but he is an infidel American, I wish it had been Afghan national army soldier or a police, at least he would have known god’s name. She asks him in god’s name, and he slaps her away. How much honour do we Pashtons have - we might spend 100 years together, and yet we do not cross each other’s roofs without permission.
**
Today, an American comes and slaps my woman, and dishonours her. Who has brought this on us? All of you answer me, that’s it. Give me the answer.**
Karzai, tilted to his left, slowly nods his head.**
***Victim’s brother: *****"I am asking you, you give me the answer.
“You give me the answer,” *he asks the army chief of staff across from him, who has his head bowed.
*
"Mr Minister, You give me the answer. Because of whom, that’s all.
“I want an answer,” *he repeats, scanning all the officials across from him. There is a six second silence. Karzai’s gaze is fixed on him, then he lowers his eyes.
*
“I want its answer and you are silent. Wait - my words are not done,” *he tells someone who is trying to speak.
Karzai: “Say what you have to say.”
***Victim’s brother: *****“Give me the answers to what I said,” he says, looking at the officials. “I want an answer.”
Karzai: **“We don’t have its answer.” He looks at his officials, then turns his focus back to the victim’s brother.
**“I want its answer.”
Silence.
*
“So there is no answer?”*
Karzai: “No there isn’t.”
***Victim’s brother: ***“So we have come to guilt?”
Karzai: “Without doubt.”
***Victim’s brother: ***“We all agree on that?”
Karzai: “Without doubt.”
***Victim’s brother: *****"When he [the US soldier] hits her [the sister-in-law] with a slap and she pleads him in god’s name, half of his [victim’s] body is lying inside, martyred, half of his body outside, martyred. She gets up and she is forced back to her place and she carries out the Islamic ritual for the dead and she lights the lamp and the place is full of Americans, who raised their voices that it was one American - and that, too, he was insane? What shame is this? Why doesn’t an insane [man] kill himself… Why doesn’t an insane kill his own friends? What kind of insane is he that he can kill this poor guy’s 11 children and my brother and then directly find his way back to his base? That he can make it to four homes within an area of four kilometres, I am amazed at that.
**
"Then my sister-in-law got up and performed the rituals for my martyred brother Mohamed Dawood until the morning. For god’s sake, you think about it for a second: until the morning, the woman is sitting with the martyr lying in front of her. Then I get a call in the morning, and in what condition I make my way there?
I want no compensation, from no one. I don’t want Hajj [pilgrimage to Mecca], I don’t want money, I don’t want a villa inAino Mina [a posh neighbourhood in Kandahar city], I just want the punishment of the Americans. I want it, I want it, I want it. And I have laid down my own head in god’s will. And if that is not possible, god be with you, I am leaving right now.
Karzai: “I understood. I understood.”
Follow Mujib Mashal on Twitter @MujMash