Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Why should Kashmir settle for autonomy?
We were already granted pseudo-autonomy once...it didn't even last 5 years...and that too back in the days before the Hindutva parties had any clout. Now that every other state is ruled by BJP fascists, and the rabid Indian masses are clamoring to have the symbolic remnants of Kashmir's "special status" abolished, there's absolutely no reason for us to fall into that trap again. India has made it abundantly clear that it can't be trusted anymore.
Think of the 2nd world war where millions were killed, today the whole of Europe has an open door policy, they even have a common currency (Euro).
Yes, and after WWII the Allies made sure that most of the European territories that had been illegally occupied were made independent once again. You think Europe would be the place it is today if the Germans still occupied France and claimed it was "an integral part of Germany?"
You keep on bringing up ludicrously irrelevant analogies and asking why the Kashmir situation can't be resolved that way. Unfortunately, illegal occupation and decades of brutal repression seldom have such happy, peaceful results.
Yes, and after WWII the Allies made sure that most of the European territories that had been illegally occupied were made independent once again. You think Europe would be the place it is today if the Germans still occupied France and claimed it was "an integral part of Germany?"
You keep on bringing up ludicrously irrelevant analogies and asking why the Kashmir situation can't be resolved that way. Unfortunately, illegal occupation and decades of brutal repression seldom have such happy, peaceful results.
Hello Janab E Ali,
Any analogy has to be taken for the parts that are relevant and not in its entirety since there will always be differences. For example if one is to follow what you said blindly, are you implying that India and Pakistan should re-unite just as East and West Germany did?
I will also add that the so called illegal occupation is only illegal in the minds of some people such as yourself who are traitors working for the country's enemy.
I will also add that the so called illegal occupation is only illegal in the minds of some people such as yourself who are** traitors working for the country's enemy.**
Words like traitors are quite useless and irrelevant vocabulary in the real world and are only relevant to genocidal maniacal Indians.
Words like traitors are quite useless and irrelevant vocabulary in the real world and are only relevant to genocidal maniacal Indians.
Hello Moonshiner,
Words have meanings and for people with some self respect, such meaning makes a difference. Of course for low class people without self respect as, words are irrlevant.
Any analogy has to be taken for the parts that are relevant and not in its entirety since there will always be differences. For example if one is to follow what you said blindly, are you implying that India and Pakistan should re-unite just as East and West Germany did?
What is it with you people and irrelevant analogies that make absolutely no sense.
East & West Germany were divided because of Allied military occupation...the Soviets, British, Americans, French each took a piece of the country for themselves. Four years later, when Germany became independent once again (apparently the Allies had more decency than the Indians do), the Soviet piece became E. Germany. The people there didn't vote to separate...there was no popular movement to establish communism. Pakistan separated as a result of a popular movement...most of the people in those areas supported the Muslim League and didn't want to be a part of a united India.
Nice try.
I will also add that the so called illegal occupation is only illegal in the minds of some people such as yourself who are traitors working for the country's enemy.
The United Nations and all its constituent members (except India) don't recognize India's claim over Kashmir, and to this day consider it a disputed territory. Deluded Indians are the only people who don't consider it illegal occupation.
The new generation of Europeans are not letting the 'hate of the past' get in their way of progress.
You ignore the fact that the new generation of Europeans aren't living under foreign occupation.
What popular movement was that? A few muslim leaders fearing for their career in an India independent of the British basically played the muslim card and caused untold misery by way of incited riots and killings…very akin to what Pakistan has tried to do in Kashmir. Once the riot starts nobody can control it and the next thing you, you guys start shouting Hindu brutality, conveniently forgetting who started it. As long as they got the country called Pakistan to plant themselves in the kursi, did these ‘leaders’ give a hoot about the huge number of muslims left behind in India? nope! instead they sent their hooligans to attack and kill the people (muslims and hindus) in Kashmir, for what? to capture more land!
What popular movement was that? A few muslim leaders fearing for their career in an India independent of the British basically played the muslim card and caused untold misery by way of incited riots and killings.....very akin to what Pakistan has tried to do in Kashmir.
Those "few Muslim leaders" were able to win over 90% of the Muslim vote in the 1946 elections on a separatist platform. That constitutes popular support.
The one state in modern-day Pakistan that didn't elect a Muslim League government, NWFP, was at Congress's insistence, given a plebiscite to vote on the issue...98-99% of voters opted for Pakistan.
instead they sent their hooligans to attack and kill the people (muslims and hindus) in Kashmir, for what? to capture more land!
All this bile against Pakistan, and not a peep out of you regarding the massacre of Muslims in Jammu that precipitated the Pathan invasion. The Indian & international media are filled with reports of how the Dogra government, with the assistance of the state forces of Patiala, butchered over 200,000 Muslims in Jammu in response to the pro-Pakistan rebellion in Mirpur and Poonch...well before a single Pathans Lashkar had invaded the state.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Janab e Ali,
As usual you are reading what you want to read into any fact without any honesty. My point was how the so called 'popular movement' was engineered and you conveniently 're-prove' that there was a popular movement. How much more pathetic are you going to get?
As to the UN map you list, did you read what the map itself says? I will quote;
*:The boundaries and names shown and the designations used
on this map do not imply official endorsement or acceptance
by the United Nations.
Dotted line represents approximately the Line of Control
in Jammu and Kashmir agreed upon by India and Pakistan.
The final status of Jammu and Kashmir has not yet been
agreed upon by the parties.
As usual you are reading what you want to read into any fact without any honesty. My point was how the so called 'popular movement' was engineered and you conveniently 're-prove' that there was a popular movement. How much more pathetic are you going to get?
How was it "engineered" when 90% of the population supported it before the mass riots broke out? The elections were before Direct Action Day and the subsequent genocide in Bihar, and before the riots in Punjab. Tell me, what riots did the Muslim League engineer to win all that support for the Pakistan movement?
The boundaries and names shown and the designations used
on this map do not imply official endorsement or acceptance
by the United Nations.
Dotted line represents approximately the Line of Control
in Jammu and Kashmir agreed upon by India and Pakistan.
**The final status of Jammu and Kashmir has not yet been
agreed upon by the parties.
Can you read English? How is that an endorsement of Indian rule over Kashmir? The last sentence makes it abundantly clear that the UN still considers Kashmir a disputed territory with no official status...just as I have been claiming.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Hello Janab e Ali,
The 'engineering' is the inciting of hindu-muslim communal rifts by scaring the masses out of their wits about being overwhelmed by hindus in independent India.
On the 2nd point you've reached new levels of deceit. You quoted the UN map as as the UN 'official map'. Then I pointed out that UN says 'it is not' their endorsed map. That effectively nullifies your claim of "official" UN map.
OTOH I showed you the CIA map which pretty much blows your hot air about "UN an dmember countries..."
That then boils it all down to Pakistan disputing Kashmir being in India. And we don't really care how Pakistan feels about it.
I guess being the traitor has become rather tough for you so resorting to desperate twisting of facts staring at you to desperation
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
15 thousand kashmiri muslims in the occupied kashmir is amazing! There are many indians that step up and speak out against their country's lunatic tyranny. So there is still some hope among indians. 15 thousand is a huge number!
15 thousand kashmiri muslims in the occupied kashmir is amazing! There are many indians that step up and speak out against their country's lunatic tyranny. So there is still some hope among indians. 15 thousand is a huge number!
atleast they are in india...the so called islamic republic to our west has sold prisoners to america for petty cash...
Your initial statement was:
“A few muslim leaders fearing for their career in an India independent of the British basically played the muslim card and caused untold misery by way of incited riots and killings”
Now that I’ve proven that’s a lie, you’re changing your argument. Nice try.
In any case, the creation of Pakistan was in no way analogous to the division of Germany by the Allies…so your initial analogy was irrelevant to the issue on hand.
Clearly your understanding of the English language is lacking.
The map is the UN’s official map. The disclaimer at the end simply makes it clear that Kashmir’s final status has yet to be determined. The UN is just making it clear that they do not officially endorse India’s claim over Kashmir. The Commonwealth follows the same guidelines: http://www.thecommonwealth.org/YearbookHomeInternal/137900/
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Janab - Despite your previous misleading comments, it now transpires that you have already accepted the government of India & taken Indian citizenship.
Stand for elections and prove you represent a sizeable section of the public opinion.
Only then I would take you seriously.
Your desperation is now reaching a crescendo and now you are openly blabbering about your own statements. Repeatedly, you are co-opting my statements and then somehow jump to your verdict as if anyone cares for how you judge facts presented! can anyone be this delusional as to claim they have ‘disproved’ something after being slapped in the face with inconsistency in their own statement? Shameless and pathetic.
One last time I will explain.
I am not the one that gave you the Germany analogy first. Someone else did but when you responded to that with some crappy wisecrack about it I showed you your errors. Either you use the analogy or you don’t, either case your stand is inavlid. For example, if you claim that the Germanies were divided by foreign occupiers, so were India and Pakistan, by the British. If you claim that latter was based on popular vote, just go look at which districts actually voted on it - only the muslim majority districts and NOT all of India. And how did even these muslims vote for Pakistan? Because an image of terror had been created in their minds by some of the muslim leaders. And why did they chose to do that? To ensure they had a place for their kursi.
and then the map you posted. When the UN says in the map you posted as the official map that they (UN) do not agree or disagree with what that map shows, you still argue?
I pity you but the utter lack of substance in your argument combined with the dishonesty make it very boring. Please don’t make an embarassing spectacle of yourself like this by repeating same old tired and disproved lines for god;s sake. Have some self respect
If you are not confused as you say, then you are delusional or worse bacause facts are not on your side.
If Indian army is cowardly how do you describe your Pakistan army that surrendered to the Indian army?
If Indian army is barbaric then how do you describe your Pakistani army that killed and raped hundreds of thousands of Bangladeshis?
In fact it is so pathetic that in Kargil when the Pakistan army got bombed through their civvies (!) your own government disowned them and tried to pass them of as unaffiliated jihadis.
The only reason Pakistanis have been brainwashed into thinking they have anything to do with Kashmir is for their army to continue get control of all funds and lands and power in Pakistan in spite of being a poorly led army that can only win against its own elected government in coups.
Like I said, it's pretty well established that the vast majority of past elections in J&K have been fixed. One election doesn't change a 60 year long trend.
You also said that the last election was not fixed. So why hurriyat did not contest and prove how much they are really worth.
Pakistan could not. It was not directly ruled by the British. It was the King to decide. Pathans jumped the gun there.
I said it had a great Hindu culture. You agreed to it. Now I am not sure if Hinduism flourished in central asia before.
Thats again not right. Anything under Hinduism doesnt mean to be associated with India. But the history of hindus in Kashmir is much more old than the influence India had on Afghanistan. Mostly through budhist and later muslim history.
But that existed for 60 years without breaking. So there might be something that bind them.