Oh really? One clause in an interim constitution from 1974 which I have never heard being ever invoked confirms the evil designs of Pakistan? What about direct governor rule and the antics of your army in Occupied Kashmir. You couldn't even trust you own puppets so you had to bring in direct governor rule. What does that prove?
Also we see your likes talking about Kashmir, but never a Kashmiri who can speak Koshur or even Pahaari come here and say that they want to be with India. Bring one if you can and we will see how they fare infront of the Kashmiris on this board.
Hello mufakar,
How is a provision in your constitution a 'mere nothing' as you want us believe? That's a pretty big and open declaration of what Pakistan thinks, unless you believe your own constitution is irrelevant.
Do you have anything to base that on? Or are you just blowing steam because India illegally occupies "Disputed Terroritory"?
You and your buddies couldn't even muster a single strand of evidence that shows that Occupied Kashmir belongs to India. The matter of the fact is that it is till this day considered "Disputed Territory" according to UN Resolution.
You've yet to disprove Janab-e-Ali on the fact that "16000 Kashmiris Languish in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges". So instead of playing the 'I BLAME YOU, YOU BLAME ME' lets not derail the thread. You arguments maybe genuine but you would get a better response if you open a separate thread for it.
On the note of Pakistan being a design of evil and all other nonsensical gibbrish, cry us all a river, but before you outright present falsified facts and start with the name calling of a sovereign nation, have some substance to back it up with. So far i see small jabs here and there, diversion of the topic, and irrelevant posts to derail the thread.
Please address the core issues of this discussion based on the topic at-hand. If you wish to question the setup of Azad Kashmir, feel free to open up another thread.
** NOTE:** Stay on topic folks! Read the title of the thread before posting, it really really helps. :) Thanks. Lets not derail the thread. We've had some really good posts from both Indian friends as well as Kashmiri(s) and Pakistanis. Lets keep that going. Please keep it calm and cool, don't get emotional and post factually. Thank you very much.
Hello Teggy,
What evidence do you want and why should we give you any evidence? If you want to dispute the affiliation of Kashmir to India you can have a rhetorical argument but the reality is that it already is part of India when the ruler of Kashmir signed an agreement during partition time.
There may be 16000 people in jail but again, what do you want to be disproved? If they are, they are. Mr.Janab Ali has a habit of arriving at conclusions with treacherous moties - that is not name calling but simply a description of his nature. How else would you describe somebody who is siding with their country's enemy?
As to the 'dubious charges' part of Janab Ali's accusation, you may want to take a look at a thread he had created where he was accusing India of jailing a Rafique who according to Jana Ali was innocent because he was in Srinagar when the bombings occurred. I provided solid documented evidence about Rafique including phone numbers that he was using, including how this crook was caught. This is just show you what passes for facts and evidence for people such as Janab Ali.
Therefore instead of asking for more and more evidence, look at what has already been on the table all along. Secondly when you ask a question and get an answer, just because you cannot handle the answer does not mean it wasn't answered.
If they are, they are. Mr.Janab Ali has a habit of arriving at conclusions with treacherous moties - that is not name calling but simply a description of his nature.
And what is the description of the nature of Indians who support the rape of Kashmiri women and the killings of innocent Kashmiri men, women and children? Barbaric, sick, twisted and unhuman. I would have people be treacherous towards the genocidal state of India because it is an honorable position.
And what is the description of the nature of Indians who support the rape of Kashmiri women and the killings of innocent Kashmiri men, women and children? Barbaric, sick, twisted and unhuman.
Why would any Indian support such crimes as you list? Every Indian is against it which is why we have deployed a large mass of troops to stop the jihadis from crossing the border and conducting those barbarous crimes against our people. To completely eradicate such terror, it would help if Pakistan stops supporting and training the criminals.
Because it's in their nature to perpetrate such crimes through their barbaric and cowardly army.
ya atleast they are fighting...not surrendering to the militants...last heard a group of 250 soldiers surrenderd to a handful of mercenaries in wazaristan...and freed only after a peace deal..:)
Yes fighting and raping innocent women! How brave of them!
Hello Moonshiner,
You are confusing the Pakistan army for Indian. Ask any Bangladesi who knows about 1971 and they will tell you the facts about how Pak army raped and killed the people of East Pakistan. The same trend has continued with the cross border jihadi tactics employed in the 90's in Kashmir by the same country.
No I am not confusing anything. Your worthless, cowardly, barbaric Indian army rapes innocent Kashmiri women on a daily basis.
Hello Moonshiner,
If you are not confused as you say, then you are delusional or worse bacause facts are not on your side.
If Indian army is cowardly how do you describe your Pakistan army that surrendered to the Indian army?
If Indian army is barbaric then how do you describe your Pakistani army that killed and raped hundreds of thousands of Bangladeshis?
In fact it is so pathetic that in Kargil when the Pakistan army got bombed through their civvies (!) your own government disowned them and tried to pass them of as unaffiliated jihadis.
The only reason Pakistanis have been brainwashed into thinking they have anything to do with Kashmir is for their army to continue get control of all funds and lands and power in Pakistan in spite of being a poorly led army that can only win against its own elected government in coups.
Hello Moonshiner,
If you are not confused as you say, then you are delusional or worse bacause facts are not on your side.
You have not brought any facts pundit because you are the one who is delusional. You instead chose to sidestep the discussion by bringing up Bangladesh.
Nothing has changed since your last irrelevant and worthless post. The Indian army is still cowardly and barbaric for raping innocent Kashmiri women and killing innocent Kashmiri children.
You are also one sick human being because you support the rapes of Kashmiri and the killing of Kashmiri children.
And just for the record, I condemn any barbaric actions by any military, be it the Pakistani military, or the army of India.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Hello moonshiner,
Since it is apparent that you have nothing to say other repeating your own hate driven nonsense, I will simply refer you to #250 which covers all that you need to know on the subject.
Since it is apparent that you have nothing to say other repeating your own hate driven nonsense, I will simply refer you to #250 which covers all that you need to know on the subject.
Regards
Pundit Vikram
Your post is irrelevant and nothing changes. The Indian army is barbaric and cowardly and the only thing "brave" that they have done is rape Kashmiri women.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Hello Moonshiner,
Why do you call Indian army cowardly and rapists when you know first hand that it is the Pakistan army that surrendered to more than one enemy, that the whole world has learnt of the rapes and murders they committed in Bangladesh and continued to cause terrible acts of terrorism across the border in Kashmir?
Because the Indian is a pathetic and cowardly army that engages in terrorism of Kashmiris and rape of Kashmiri women. Your denial of this, while bringing in Bangladesh, shows what a pathetic human being you truly are.
Oh and the world doesn't care about anything. So you can stop your incessant about that.
Now you many continue to support of rape of Kashmiri women by your army.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Guys please don't insult each other or do any name-calling. Cool it, please.
You can still get your message across without the use of colorful words (coward, rapist, etc..etc..) that seem provocative, they don't accomplish to prove anything. Facts and debate will.
Perhaps the reason why the Indian government allowed those elections to proceed without any blatant rigging was because no pro-independence parties have participated since the 1987 debacle.
Thats pure speculations. I could rhetorically say that Hurriyat was afraid that their strength would be exposed.
I have already told you, India did not like the division based on religion. It was Pakistans prerogative that division was achieved. India does not consider that there is muslim or hindu citizens and hence it did not claim any place because it was hindu or it was muslim.
It's not double standard , it was a fact of partition.
That does not negate the fact that Kashmir was in contact with the rest of India and that doesnt make it a part of middle east.
Majority of that subcontinental part still exist in the Indian union. If there was not a division based on religion then probably the whole of the part would have been in the Indian union.
As I have already said before, if not for Pakistan and Kashmir, India would have been a very federal state with lot of powers with the state than the center.
No we did not. We are not as narrow minded as your people are.
This also beside the point. Kerala has a lot of muslims (30%) and 20% christians. We do not intend to be separate nation or we intend to destabilize the country.
I did not say that. I am saying that kashmiri and north indian language have a common origin. That does not mean india can claim kashmir, that only means that u cannot deny that u dont have some commonality between the languages.
Thats pure speculations. I could rhetorically say that Hurriyat was afraid that their strength would be exposed.
Like I said, it's pretty well established that the vast majority of past elections in J&K have been fixed. One election doesn't change a 60 year long trend.
I have already told you, India did not like the division based on religion. It was Pakistans prerogative that division was achieved. India does not consider that there is muslim or hindu citizens and hence it did not claim any place because it was hindu or it was muslim.
It's not double standard , it was a fact of partition.
Fine. And according to "the facts of Partition" Kashmir technically should have gone to Pakistan. It's still a double standard.
That does not negate the fact that Kashmir was in contact with the rest of India and that doesnt make it a part of middle east.
I never claimed it was part of the Middle East...I said it was culturally more Central Asian than South Asia. You have yet to prove otherwise.
Afghanistan has a longer history of association with the Subcontinent...it even has a 'great Buddhist past'...perhaps India should consider illegally occupying that country too.
Majority of that subcontinental part still exist in the Indian union. If there was not a division based on religion then probably the whole of the part would have been in the Indian union.
So what? It's still an artificial, post-colonial construct...just made up of the remnants of the British Empire in South Asia.
No we did not. We are not as narrow minded as your people are.
This also beside the point. Kerala has a lot of muslims (30%) and 20% christians. We do not intend to be separate nation or we intend to destabilize the country.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
The only way forward is to "freeze" this issue or make the LOC as a permanent border.
Any other way is currently impossible!! There is too much of emotions, hate and suffering to amicably resolve this issue.
The government should give an amnesty against prosecution for all Kashmiri militants.
Politically - the Indian government must give autonomy to Kashmir.
The Indian army could be withdrawn from the cities back to the borders.
The miltants who have surrendered - should be made into a new police force posted outside the state. (to ensure impartiality & jobs for them).
Tourists should be allowed from Pakistan.
The Hindu Pundits can return to their homes - or if they are destroyed or illegally occupied - government should give them plots of land and money to rebuild.
Muslims who have left their homes and are refugees in Pakistan - should be given the right to return & should be provided the same assistance to rebuild their lives.
All the roads connecting pakistan should be opened and kashmiri people should be allowed to freely travel & trade on both sides of the LOC/border.
Atleast a beginning can be made in the right direction - right now everthing is deadlocked.