120 Wives and Counting.....

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Well I am sick of heraing Logical say that the ulleema today should make an ijtihad and then nullify the Jihab & the wives and all those issues which you logical think are in need to be changed.

Ijtihad is done on matters that are not put in black and white in Islam and that have come in the society today. An example of such Ijtihad is Smoking. Since there were no cigarettes at the time of the rasool (saaw) & also at the time of the Sahabaa so that was not mentioned and therefore an Ijtihad was needed on this matter.

Ijtihad cannot be done because some ignorant fool like yourself thinks that Islam is too harsh and Islam was for the old folkes and not for us. Islam is universal and for all times.

But this is not a topic which we should be worried about so much, I just wanted to point this out.

Islam & Muslims have become a joke to the rest of the world. Muslims do not follow their own religion and also Muslims are too occupied with this Duniya and forgetting their purpose on earth.

There are much greater things that need to be looked at this time rather than argue with you about what you think should be changed in the sharia'a.

42

HOMId

Since 4th century hijra - new Sunni sects have been disallowed but revisions to existing laws can be made according to Fiqh. So, there is some validity in what Logical is saying!

Pls read the following and consult with your scholars in the authencity of what I am about to say!

There are three kinds of Ijthehad; when we talk of the closure of the door of Ijtihad in the Sunni tradition, we refer to the Ijtihad of the first kind, i.e. independent Ijtihad. As to the second kind (al-Ijtihad al-mutlaq al-muntasib) and the third kind (ijtihad al-madhhab), their doors have remained open.

The two kinds of Ijthehad which are open pertains to matters of jurisprudence of the Four Sunni sects only: Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki,Hanbali. In 4th century hijra, all other sunni sects besides the Four were disallowed; and, this is what is meant by Sunnis when they say - no more changes are required; our Islam is complete.

This act of 4th century bound the Sunnis to following one of the four sunni school of thoughts only. A sunni that follows one of the imams, follow him in all issues and have no right to follow the other three by exercising discretion in some issues.

In order to revise laws, e.g. laws on marriage, divorce, etc, set down by any one of the 4 sunni Imams would require consensus amongst all ulemas. But, it can be done - that's the point and, this is in accordance with Fiqh. In this very thread - you, HomiD have agreed to this as well; check your post of May 13, 2000 07:33 PM.
You said:
"I know what you are saying about the Fiqh and how its changed sometimes due to the times we live in. Thats when all the uleemas decide there needs to be a change."

Brother, Kindly, do us all a favour - check with your scholars whether what I described about Ijthehad is correct or not?
Also, according to the principles of Fiqh, revisions can be made to the laws; whether, it is done or not is not the question. No new Sunni sects or school of thoughts can be established after the 4th century hijra.

43

Hey faceup

So, we couldn't keep you away! Yeah, the 4th century hijra act did put a bar on more sunni taqleed/sects; but, that did not prevent the Wahabis from showing their ugly face! Man, Are they Uglyyyy?

BTW - even King Fahd of the Saudi Arabia had called for Ijthehad as have many scholars who have come to realize that the Islamic Laws or Shariah is not compatible with today's world.

44

ZMAN,

You are the stereotypical male, you cant see anyone elses point of view but your own, just try to "THINK" (if it is not too hard) about what I had written and I am sure you will realise that there is sense in it.And BTW i am not being "westernised". You "I am so holy" people love using that word against women especially when you dont have a reasonable answer.

45

Designer : Everyone has opinions !!! You have an opinion and I dont have to respect that because quite frankly, it's off the wall. Dont try to mould religion to fit your lifestyle(whatever it may be), but try to mould yourself into the prescribed lifestyle.

You want answers check the Quran and hadith. With your limited understanding of Islam do not come up with these ridiculous ideas of what should and shouldn't be allowed in religion. Dont apply the general perceptions that the west has about Islam because western ideas are not supposed to glorify Islam.

When did I ever claim that I am Holy...Check my post again for even an iota of an insinuation that I am Holy. Although I will admit that I am trying to follow Quran and Hadith.

According to you I am a stereotypical male -- Cool !!! .

46

ZMAN

The Muslim Ummah follow the Sharia laws which are based on the Quran and Sunnah to govern their daily life;
One does not run to the Quran & Hadiths to seek instructions - we have our scholars to do that for us and tell us how we should govern by drafting the laws, e.g.laws on hejab, marriage, divorce, zaka'at, etc.

The reason why Designer, Farhana and others are having such a hard time is because those laws that I talk about were drafted 900 years ago and DO NOT REFLECT THE MODERN TIME. Do you understand this much ?

These laws again need to be revised. NOTE, we are talking about revising the laws and, NOT the Quran. The Prophet (SAW) has give us the beauty of FIQH to do just that but our scholars can't agree on how that should be done.

ZMAN - do you wear western style clothings or do you dress like our prophet and the sahaba?

47

I dont understand about the marriages blurb you'll keep throwing in. Our prophet (SAAW) married more than once, therefore the 4 marriages law became Sunnat. Therefore, it was a law in his lifetime and was not made into law by Ulemas after our Prophet passed away.

Hejab - Clearly stated in the Quran, no grey matter there.

Divorse - Clearly stated in the Quran no, grey matter there.

Zaka a't - Clearly stated in the Quran no, grey matter there.

The usual belief is that whatever is written in the Quran is the absolute truth then we are on the same page otherwise there is no discuussion.

48

ZMAN,
What you have expressed is exactly what is perceived by majority; but then the majority are poor & ignorant; what excuse do you have?

So, you want to copy the prophet in marriage but do NOT want to copy him in the way he dressed!

The laws were made by the 4 sunni Imams and they were based on:
Quran, sunnah, ijma and qiyas.

So, you're saying that 4 wives are mentioned in the Quran so you'll get 4 wives and not bother about anything else that Quran says about 4 wives. I have to put you in the league of poor & ignorant!

49

Logical : Ok, now your getting out of hand. I will not resort to calling you names as my upbringing does not permit me to do that unless the circumstances are severe.

I never said that that the 4 wives was in the Quran. Read my post and then run to conclusions. Although I did say that
Hijab, zakaat and divorse are explicitly stated in the Quran because I have read it. If you dont agree then please read the Quran.

These are my last words for you. For some reason I see a brick wall and I dont want to bang my head on it any further then I already have.

Good luck with your Women's libber / burning your bra's kinda thinking.

50

Zman,

I think you are the one with limited understanding, and to tell you the truth talking to you is like banging my head against a brick wall. If you are going to be judgemental about me over one single comment i made then frankly you are not worth discussing anything with.

P.S Logical, dont waste your time, you are obviously talking to a neanderthal.

You think you are "Trying" to follow the Quran and Hadith????? I think you are following Asian village mentality,and as for me trying to be westernised, well is that the only comeback you could come up with???
You have No answer, so blame my beliefs, how utterly sad, insecure and ignorant you are.

[This message has been edited by designer (edited May 23, 2000).]

51

zman, yaar see u r up against folks who have had years of brainwashing by the western media. day in and day out they are used to viewing Islam as a "terrorist producing" "women oppressing" faith that is followed by backward folks in villages of third world country. Add to it the filth they come across in highschools here in west and constant forcing of opposite views by their parents..... and u have a complexed confused pathetic insaan.

Beleive it, its not their fault for thinking like that. so no need to get deepressed just have a good laugh at them and make sure when you raise your kids do whatever you can so they dont turn out to be like them.

dont give up yaar! :)

[This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited May 23, 2000).]

52

Agreed Mundyaa. What you said just about sums it up. In the end its each person with his/her own doings.

I'm done with these high school chicks.

53

Mundyaa says:
"viewing Islam as a terrorist producing, women oppressing faith"
Actually, that would be a correct statement!
Well Done!
Now, work on proving to the readers that it is not so!

Zman,
So, you want women to wear chador or veil while you wear jeans; men can swear & curse while women may not open their mouth; men, can call women 'chicks' as you did in your the previous post, while women stand before men with their face & eyes lowered.

Zman-how about providing me with your views on the thread- MUSLIM WOMEN AND NON-MUSLIMS SHARE SAME FATE! Luv to hear your highly illuminatimng views.

54

Logical,

    Aap apna keemthi waqt in akal ke andhau pe kyon barbaat kar rahe hain????

If they were worth having an objective conversation with they wouldnt be coming up with pathetic comments, they cant see past their village mentality.

55

Actually, that would be a correct statement!
Well Done!
Now, work on proving to the readers that it is not so! <<<<

I dont need to prove anything. The increasing numbers of converted women in countries like US is the proof. When they observe pardah and other Islamic values that is enough proof that following the filthy ways of west isnt the answer. Increased nudity on TV and films and the culture generaly is making the kids a bunch of perverts and rapists. Now they are running around trying to implement laws and ratings on tv programs and putting out commercials like "its okay not have sex before marriage". Once again every fourth girl is raped in US. Seems like a woman is less protected in this society than ours. Why dont you give me a reason as to what good will "following these western culture" do for our women?

Islam has nailed these problem that exist in this society a long time ago. We dont need this filth in our lives.... if u do then be my guest. If anything we should try and get rid of corruption and greed and other social evils that exist in our lives.... try and be better muslims. Muslims who conqured the world and not the ones u see today.

56

Mundyaa, do you consider Ibn-Saud a muslim or not. The thread is discussing his act and not the goodness of Islam.

57

Although I try not to be so extreme but I just have to say this. It really gets to me sometime. Designer, are you muslim? or stupid? are you really for real?
You think your so civilized or western or decent? you have to have the most ancient and pathetic thinking I have ever come across from anyone who is muslim or anyone who has atleast some knowledge or understanding of ISLAM. You arne neither western or eastern or remote, you are somewhere from mars I think.

Do you think Allah didn't know what year 2000 is when he revealed Quran as the last revelation? you think Allah didn't know what year 2000 is when he sent Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) as the last and final messenger of Allah? and for this world? and for all time? and for all mankind? We are talking about our creator and the creator of the universe! and he didn't know what year 2000 is about? I dont think you can truly be this stupid.
written???? do you know who Quran was written by??? do you know who revealed the Quran?? the almighty! the all knowing, the greatest, the one with no opinions!! because everything he says is correct!! it has to be, he is the creator! Hakim-ul Hakimeen, Al-Rahman, Al-Rahim, Rab-il Alameen!!
He is ALLAH (SWT)

Mundyaa, Zman, I will say to you, no point, forget these pathetic losers. I feel bad for some of their forefathers who probably have given their life for islam and the truth. Sickening that they feel this way and they see Quran, Allah, our beloved Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. with such ignorance. Its ok, when all their money goes into paying for their stupid childrens medical bills, you know who they come back to and make dua to, and he is so supreme and great and so forgiving that he will forgive them inshallah. We have seen it over and over again, even in USA, sometimes the children of such ignorance become the greatest muslims.
May Allah guide us all inshallah and give all of us and our children good health inshallah!
SALAAM!!

[This message has been edited by STRONGMAN (edited May 24, 2000).]

58

Strongman,

       Go get a life!!!!
59

Yo faceup,

you criticize my post:MUSLIM WOMEN & NON-MUSLIMS SHARE SAME FATE!

But, here in your post to HomiD- you raise some intelligent points; were you expecting HomiD to answer you? Like I told you before, man - these people do not comprehend the truth.

They will say - Islam is eternal and for them it means Islam of the 8th century for all eternity! Can you believe the magnitude of this ignorance!

60

I agree with Strongman, Zman and HomiD. I also have the simple solution for everybody: If you don't like polygamous marriages, don't participate in them. If you would like to be in one, and have the necessary means, go ahead.