Dear Mansoor,
You are still a junior member. Although I appreciate your concern, but first look around at some of the earlier posts and see how muslims are mocking other religions also. Do give a word of advise to your muslim brothers on how to respect others. Do unto others as you want others do unto you. And in any case you can always ignore a comment if you do not like and we have admin and moderator to decide what is beyond limits.
Hi
I just wanted to say that when we tell some of our members to respect other religions we should apply this rule on Islam as well! (now I’m not talking about how much ppl listen to this advice)
I strongly disagree with Anchal’s remarks here and in General forum – I don’t think that I’m able to respond in same style nor will I ever try too, lekin khad hoti hai!
As for your comments Dhir,
Go and find any comment against any religion where mods or admins didn’t try to shut them up! Ppl do talk in disrespectful manner, and we do try to control it – but giving the impression that ‘that’ is the normal form of posts on this forum is unfair. Also many members have condemned the stupidity that you keep mentioning in your posts and so far not one of you have condemned this idiocy – you enjoy Islam bashing don’t you?
This post and the idea behind posting is pathetic! I’m not against questioning Islam or any law but MY religion deserves respect like anyother religion in the world! So talk when you are in you senses, plz.
(all this is said as a member)
[quote]
Originally posted by sabah:
Go and find any comment against any religion where mods or admins didn’t try to shut them up!
[/quote]
I also wanted to tell the same in my post.
Aanchal's comment was indeed in bad taste but then she is not continuing with that, and that is a welcome step.
[quote]
Originally posted by Anchal:
**dhir
long long time back
a group of men were sitting around the fire bored
they had nothing to do so they decided to write a book
hence quran came into existance
cause it makes no sense at all
and can only be written by idiots so long ago
Allah cant be this cruel**
[/quote]
Anchal,
Read my lips. And don't put words in my mouth.
In today's world science, logical thinking sense of fairness and human rights have capability to answer most of our questions, to protect us from each other and from people in power therefore it has challenged and in many instances replaced organised religion specially in the developed world.
Anchal,
Like you I like to question religious teaching and books (inculding mine) and refuse to follow anything blindly. Don't let people bully you into submission and stop you from thinking for yourself. Free thinking is one of the greatest gift one can have.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited May 04, 2000).]
Sabah you dont wanto answer or you simply cant answer
i heard you are getting married in a few days would you perfer your husband to have additional wives since its allowed in the religion and you believe blindly in it ????
Sabah you dont wanto answer or you simply cant answer <<
Anchal I don’t want to disrespect anyone’s religion or religious personality – yes I lack that ability and I don’t miss it.i heard you are getting married in a few days would you perfer your husband to have additional wives since its allowed in the religion and you believe blindly in it ????<<
Firstly, there are rules about everything – marrying more then once happens to be on that list. As for my husband, no I will not allow him to re-marry but if he ever did, I would not blame my religion cuz any rule can be misused. When Islam allows him to marry three other women besides me, Islam also tells him to follow some rules, like being able to be fair and supportive etc – now if I didn’t agree to his second marriage, is he being fair? My logic says no, matlab he broke one of the laws he had to follow to make his second marriage valid, right. But if I choose to keep my mouth shut when all ’that’ would be happing then is that Islam’s fault? Again my logic says no.
One more thing, this is not obligatory for Muslim men, so it’s normally not even an issue until misused. Everyone’s common logic would say, most ’laws’ and ’moral sets’ etc in them selves can not be wrong, it’s how WE choose to use them, right.
There is more behind this ’Law’ then sex – perhaps you should study them before jumping to conclusions.
As for following anything blindly – you’re assuming dear; I have explored Islam more then you ever will. And this is no insult or khokhle words. I happen to be from the group that is able to look upon thing with an open mind if that is what I want to do. And to assume that us who respect Islam never have questioned any rule, hadith etc is ignorance and a lame way to justify your disrespective behavior.
One final comment, I normally avoid discussing Islam with ppl like you, because you’re not discussing to gain understanding you’d rather go on and say any extreme word then accepting that you’re wrong. In which case I do not want to be the one responsible for following you that far. Plus I’m not that modern yet to feel cool about calling any religious head an idiot, nor am I so tolerant to accept that especially when it’s without any provocation!
Making stupid comment is one of the easiest thing one can do it’s fun for low life people, but that does not prove anyone’s intellect only that you are good with abusive words, not very attractive ability in my book!
Ps. Jab Islam ke bare meiN aise bolo to kam se kam itna dekh liya karo ke aap ko shae' kon de raha hai, just a hint. Shayed is tarah aap ko ehsas ho jae ke aap kuch na kuch ghalat keh rahi haiN.
all in all
Sabah dearie
you will be a helpless victim too
its not a matter of understanding it deeply or seeing it from a more mature manner
you wont be able to do anything
your rights will be violated,
your self esteem shattered and your diginty ...
well i dont think women who let their men marry more thn once have any diginity for themselves anywayz
i rest my case
[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited May 05, 2000).]
Sabah
Jab Islam ke bare meiN aise bolo to kam se kam itna dekh liya karo ke aap ko shae' kon de raha hai, just a hint.<<
I wonder who these words were intended for. It will help if you talk openly. I don't think Anchal needs encouragement from anybody.
Guys, guys...
Have you noticed that whenever there is a discussion on the evils of our society and, suggestions are made on ways to change - the person making the suggestion is immediately attacked/dubbed as 'anti-Islam'.
It is a tool used very effectively by the supporters of the status-quo and yields immediate results --it, very effectively, shuts the person up; who is now obsessed with apologising and explaining his/her positions/suggestions as not being 'anti-Islam' by which time the audience/readers have lost interest and moved on.
Majority of us on this board will agree that the practice of '4 wives' is out-dated and really should be banned!
Majority of us will also agree that societal and attitudinal changes are way overdue in Pakistan.
Easier said than done; Forces opposed to change are strongly entrenched and, their biggest weapon is Islam. They are using and, will use Islam to oppose change.
The end result will be that people who can use the God-given right to 'think' will become disillusioned and see Islam as suppressor rather than nourisher of soul & spirit.
Well said, Adbulmalick. I don't think there is a need for plural marriages any more in our society. Good points.
Why is there no need for more than one marriage in the socitey??????????
You guys have anything good to reason with your answer, looking at all thats going on in the society...
Let me know, I'd be interested.
HOMID,
The joy ride for muslim males at expense of powerless women is OVER - get it!
Sensible muslims want to put an end to that!
You belong in the prehistoric times - my friend; pls crawl back there and take your insane ulemas and mullahs with you.
[This message has been edited by Adbulmalick (edited May 11, 2000).]
LOL.
Islam was completed over 1400 years ago. Islam was not meant for those times only, rather Islam is and was global & eternal. Meaning, there are no more changes to be done in the ahkaam. I know what you are saying about the Fiqh and how its changed sometimes due to the times we live in. Thats when all the uleemas decide there needs to be a change.
But, the reasoning that you are giving, is totally inappropriate and this ruling does not need to be changed if you and other people think that the times have changed so we need to change this ruling...
Your are talking about sensible muslims???
Rather, these are the stupid muslims who do not know the aqeedah and do not know the reasoning behind the commands of allah (swt). If these muslims (I assume you want to be considered as one of them) were so sensible, then they would look beyond their ignorance and then see the actual benefit this command has on the society.
All you so called sensible (yet stupid) muslims can argue is a point from total jahaliyyah and it does not make any sense to the true muslims who know the ruling behind these commands.
Really.
One would think that with all the suffering in the world today, Pakistan or anywhere else, we would have better things than to discuss whether men should or should not marry more than 1 woman.
In a society where women I know are struggling to support children after a divorce, where women (in monogamous marriages) are beaten and ridiculed daily, where children are being physically abused, and yes, sexually too (by brothers and other male relatives) - at a much higher rate than polygamy occurs (in most muslim countries monogamy is the norm), --- I don't have the time to waste considering whether an imaginary Male X should marry Wife II or not.
I do agree 100% with someonelse !
I think that if everyone looked at The question of four wives from a logical point of view, and also take into account when the QURAN was written they would not be as ridiculing and ignorant. Firstly the Quran was written in a time of war, where men were being killed by the thousands and in a period in which the majority of women were uneducated, therefore unable to make a decent living for themselves. Obviously in todays society this question would not be raised because women can now make a living for themselves, therefore do not need a man. However at that time this idea was very practical and I feel gave respect to women. Now I dont need any feminists coming on and saying "who needs men, women can do as good as them" because I know this is true. All i am saying is at the time of our prophet this made sense. And as for those males who think they can still apply it today then they are very mistaken, because they need to take into account when the Quran was written.
Designer : Why is it so hard to grasp that Quran was and is for all times. So now you want to pick and choose what you want to believe from the Quran. I bet you will now say that its Ok to eat pork since nowadays its a clean animal.
If Quran was written for that time then according to you none of it should apply to this time and that God needs to work up another book / religion and prophet. Well I hate to burst your bubble cause it aint happenin' cause there is only one God and Mohammed (PBUH) is his last prophet. In other words no more new religion and no new prophets will come.
You will see the light when you de-westernize you thought process.
best of luck !!!
ZMAN
Designer is making a very VALID point!
Quran is for all times BUT the laws that are drafted by ulemmas based on Quran, Sunnah, ARE NOT!
Examples of these laws (fuquas) are:
laws on upto 4 wives;
laws on hejab,
etc
These laws are the same laws that were drafted by the 4 sunni Imams 1,000 years ago and, the ulemas-due to Ijtehad being closed and, they unable to agree amongst themselves, keep shoving those old 'out-dated' laws down muslims' throat.
The following quote best explains Islamic laws -- TRY TO UNDERSTAND AND SHED YOUR IGNORANCE!
“..the Shari'ah is seen by most Muslims as a changing body of law, subject to what we call the fiqh, the capacity for evolving interpretation.”